In these cultures the men HAD to marry the women in order to get some sex. So the marriage rate was higher. Again, look at pre 1960s America. I am not saying it was perfect. Virginity was not only prized because of lack of contraception. There are MULTIPLE reasons that virginity was prized. One of the other reasons it was prized is because the older cultures knew that females lose their ability to bond with every sexual partner. They knew that spiritually it was not a good thing.
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She HAS to be a virgin
- Thread starter Pandora
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AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
Yeah, our points dont necessarily contradict each other. What im trying to say is, you cant be a hypocrite.
You cant wish for women to be virgins but turn a blind eye to men who sabotage virginity by abusing, cheating on, or dumping virgins, and how hypocritical it is for them to then complain that women are not virgins anymore. The same applies to women, they cant complain about a "lack of good men" but then when you look at their dating history, you see that they treated the men who were good to them like pieces of shyt stuck to their shoe.
Pair bonding correlates with less cuckholdery. Virgins have the highest pair bonding ability thus they are the least likely to cuck you. You are making my point.
Prostitutes are shamed in virtually every culture not because of their ability to cuck their clients. They are shamed because humans instinctively know that a woman without the ability to pair bond is a fundamentally broken person. She is unpleasant to be around and is deeply cynical. She has lost all her nurturing ability.
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I totally agree with you and I made a post about that very thing. I asked who would go back to the 1950s where the average man only had maybe 2 sexual partners but still had wives. I got mixed opinions.
We either have a society where men can enjoy copious sexual variety or we have a society in which women can still pair bond. We can not have both. The consensus is split here on SS. Some would go back to the 1950s and others would not.
Point taken.
I understand your viewpoint. I do not necessarily disagree. I dont know which society is better. I do know which society is better if you want to ever have a family or raise children. The society that prizes virginity is the only society that it will be possible to have a functional family in. The society that does not prize virginity is one that will degrade and crumble due to gynocentricism and feminism.
Ironically the society that is sexually liberal ends up having the most male virgins. What we are seeing now is that male virginity is on the rise while female promiscuity is rising. Men these days are not even enjoying their lives. It is harder than ever to get laid nowadays. The men that truly enjoyed their sexual lives were the older millennials ( basically pre social media). The men right after the sexual revolution also got laid alot ( 1970s etc).
AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
To be honest with you, i thought about pair bonding yesterday. I thought that after a breakup, the reason why women fvck so many new guys is precisely to deaden and devalue their emotions to any man. If you want a fulfilling pair bond, i think a woman who lives like that and similar behaviors will be a worse candidate on average than a woman who doesnt. Women can use sex as a kind of self-mutilation in a way that men dont.
But i dont want to draw any broad stroke, set in stone conclusions about how damaged women become from certain behaviors, simply because i dont want to live life that way. I want to keep an open mind as i go through life by assessing each individual woman as an individual.
This is a fact. They totally use it as self mutilation. This is why the more sexual partners she has the more rough sex she wants and **** she wants. Every woman likes it rough but sluts really want to be abused. It is because sluts have a deep sense of self loathing. It is the same self loathing a guy gets after he masturbates ( probably worse). This is why some pornstars create videos that are in the abuse genre. They are using it as self punishment.
Women also smash alot of dudes as a defense mechanism to not ever be able to get hurt again. I agree with you. I have said it before and I will say it again. Any girl that engages in casual sex is broken. Something is wrong with her. Men in the west have just normalized dysfunction because it is all we know.
A woman is supposed to have sex with a man, and cling on to that dude for dear life. She is supposed to be obsessed with the man that she just simulated creating a baby with. Anything short of this should be unacceptable.
Let me add that sluts are the main group that hate nice guys. Normal healthy women do not dislike nice pseudo simpy men. Sluts deep down resent themselves so they will punish you for treating them nice. Much of what we teach as gospel in the RedPill community is because we are dealing with girls that have a lot of casual sex. Virgins actually require a lot of "simping". This does not mean be weak. It means you have to tone down the dark triad traits.
AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
Im broadly on board with this post with a caveat... i believe that different people are inclined to different things. So, some women are simply wired for casual sex, while others would prefer to have a solid pair bond and dont feel very inclined to just hook up, and then there are others in between. The point of saying that is, i dont think you should panic about some women having a lifestyle of casual sex.
What we rather need is a society where everyone can live in the way they are wired to, without pressure to conform and pretend to be wired some other way. I think this basically requires giving women a healthy self esteem... because the lower their self esteem is, the more likely they are to use casual sex as the equivalent of cutting their wrists. I agree that the more promiscuous a woman seems, the more she also typically seems to have some sort of mental health problems... and with casual sex and mental health problems, it's a chicken or egg scenario.
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AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
If what you say is true then there is no way to go back anyway, and even before today, gender relations werent perfect and could never be (which you also noted). The genie has been released from the lamp... we have to deal with the world as it is the best we can with a positive attitude, and that is what i want to try to do. It's useless to just have feverish dreams of a fantasy that cannot be.
"Im broadly on board with this post with a caveat... i believe that different people are inclined to different things. So, some women are simply wired for casual sex, while others would prefer to have a solid pair bond and dont feel very inclined to just hook up, and then there are others in between. The point of saying that is, i dont think you should panic about some women having a lifestyle of casual sex."
Yes I can agree with this. Some women are definitely more wired for casual sex. Good point.
What we rather need is a society where everyone can live in the way they are wired to, without pressure to conform and pretend to be wired some other way. I think this basically requires giving women a healthy self esteem... because the lower their self esteem is, the more likely they are to use casual sex as the equivalent of cutting their wrists.
I dont know my brotha. I sometimes agree with this sentiment and sometimes I dont. I am ambivalent on this point. Don't we already have a society where everyone can live in the way they are wired? Look how that turned out. The amount of thottery is destroying the West. Women are pack animals. They take the container of their surroundings. They are formless. You have to set sexual boundaries for them as a society or else your society will eventually fail big time. I wish this wasnt the case bro. Can you convince me otherwise? I am open to being convinced.
If you give women free reign to do whatever they want sexually, you will inevitably end up with them using their sexuality as a weapon ( much like we see today). They will also rack up unneccsary sexual partners ( much like we see today). They will also turn your society into a gynocracy etc. Change my mind.
Yes and this is why my screen name is Pandora. We have opened the Pandora's box of female sexual liberation and there is no going back. I am sure you are familiar with the myth of Pandoras box. Some people think that it was an allegory for giving women too much liberation. It will ruin your society and it will never be able to be repaired.
So the only way it will turn around is some severe society changing catastophe. This may come in the form of financial reset, or natural disaster or foreign invasion etc.
This post was not about fantasy dreams. My point was that we must understand the genesis of our dating issues. It is not that female nature is inherently bad. It is that casual sex/dating brings out the worst in female nature. My 2nd point was that in order to even have a chance at a succesful long term relationship she MUST be a virgin. I dont think these points are fanstastical. If you can go overseas and find a sheltered virgin ( which is not that hard if you go to a poor nation) you may be able to have a happy family.
AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
The thing is, i think this is the way those women always were, but were forced to pretend they werent. So im more pessimistic than you - you think that the culture makes a bigger difference on what women feel than i do. I hope you would be right, but i am too pessimistic to think you are. And if you are wrong, then my point is, why play the pointless and neurotic game of pretend? I dont want to play "pair bond" with a woman who doesnt feel the same way.
But i am undecided like you, i dont have any god-like answer to how things would be.
Hmmm....maybe. I will say I have a 3rd cousin who was very sexually inclined at a very early age ( dont ask me how I know). So you may be correct there may be a genetic component to being a slut. I am sure there is.
Being forced to pretend is good for society. Look at Amish or strict Muslim society. They dont have the same issues we have. And do you really care if your wife has slut genes but her society prevented her from acting on it. I dont care as long as she is a good mother. I get your point though. I do not kno which of our views is the correct one. I know tribal communities that let their women fu*k as they please so hey what do I know.
I will say this though. Women are definitely happier in societies that restrict them. Every survey shows that women were much happier pre feminism. The strict muslim girls I know are definitely more sane than the secular girls I know. The mormon girls I knew were also more sane than the sex positive girls. Casual sex lowers a girls self esteem. They have done studies on this. This is fact.
Women are like children. Children fight against structure but they ultimately crave it. A child will cry and test boundaries but they are ultimately healthier in a house that has boundaries. So that may be the answer.
Women are like children. Children fight against structure but they ultimately crave it. A child will cry and test boundaries but they are ultimately healthier in a house that has boundaries. So that may be the answer.
AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
My positive compromise between ideal and reality is i will be with a woman who:
1) Can still be emotionally sincere with you (she doesnt relate to you as just a kind of accessory, dull placeholder or retirement plan)
2) Is enjoyable to be with for more than sex, so you appreciate being with her
I may post more replies, but for me, this statement is always the final stage of all the thoughts weve talked about. No matter what the world's truth is or isnt that we can debate, i think this is a positive conclusion and is what i will try to go for.
AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
That child analogy is excellent... i think it strengthens your case. Very well said. I am actually stunned..
Yes this is a great ideal to shoot for. They are out there but they have low body counts.
1.) If she has slept with a bunch of guys you WILL be an accessory. The novelty is gone. She has already met a version of you before and it did not work. She will never really love you.
2.) Well sluts are often fun. But.......they sometimes come with serious emotional baggage. They still may be good for things other than sex like funny jokes etc but they will never be good mothers.
AttackFormation
Master Don Juan
Yeah haha a light bulb turned on in my head, i was just going to post that you will agree with my positive goal but say that it's exactly why you made this thread in the first place, because you would say she has to be a virgin to be compatible for it... lol
