She does bite back!

A

AJ84

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UPDATE:
So last night I got home, threw some food in the instant pot and started working out in my gym room. 20mins later the door bell rings and guess who it is in a sexy outfit, lipstick, make up, push up bra etc? if you guessed a hooker you guessed wrong lol She had a pissed off look on her face though but I smiled, said "hey!! come in!" so she smiled back, came in and said 'WE NEED TO TALK'. I said sure we can do that...one sec. Then I went off to turn off the music, etc, asked her if she wanted something to drink. Then sat down on the couch next to her told her to go ahead and talk. Long story short she complained about the silent treatment, she complained that she has to always be the one to reach out to me when there's a disagreement, we need to communicate, she gets uncomfortable when someone gets mad at her etc. I said 'ok' but then she said what I had to say about all that. I tried to dodge it by saying 'I understand what you're saying' but she was adamant that I talked about it so I told calmly told her how I felt, why I felt it and that I want to be in a relationship with a submissive chick, I have to feel that I'm cared for, loved and respected etc. She said she'll try to do a better job of communicating when she notices that I'm upset (as expected she knew that I was upset but she chose to ignore it). After that from 6-8:30ish we had the usual wild sex, it was messy because she was still on her period. I point that out because that time of the month may have had something to do with her moody behavior perhaps. After that we talked, had dinner etc then she told me 'I didn't expect to have sex tonight, in fact, I brought over your stuff from my house in case you didn't want to be with me anymore. I just had to find out as I couldn't sleep and was in a down mood'. Then when she got home and sent me the Jason Mars song 'I won't give up on us' or something like that. And this morning she sent the usual good morning txt that she does with emojis etc.

I have to say...may be it's me but while I did get some great advice from the ladies and I appreciated them taking the time to write all they did but I also sensed some irritation at me, perhaps it's because you ladies are not the submissive type (which is fine) and some how see being submissive as a weak thing so you're rooting for her to be strong (otherwise she must have low self esteem etc). However, her and I have had many conversations and she likes being submissive and believes in gender roles. She said in the past she had to step up because the guys she was with never did. It's like an omega dog who tries to become alpha but is neurotic and unsure but since the alpha's not around he tries to do his best but he's not happy in his core. You see this with dogs and dog owners all the time where they can't control their neurotic dog. Yes, there are alpha females too but not many and guys like me don't want to be with those women.

Lastly, I posted this here for feedback to see if I need to change something within myself but I need to be selective in who's advice I choose. Guru1000 was 100% correct on the attraction being counter intuitive, I've seen this in my own and other's relationships. Women want the guys that treat them poorly for some reason, I'm talking super alpha females too! Yet the nice guys who bend, apologize etc get cheated on and only thrown scraps. I will post about this in a separate thread because this is actually happening to someone I know right now.

Also, RangerMike said if this is me then this is me, that's what I said earlier too...I know what i want, she needs to decide if that's who she is or not.
Hank I’m glad it worked out for you and no, I’m not like your gf. She’s sounds great by the way but I have a different set of values that compliment and work well with my husband’s.

I don’t think being submissive is weak if that’s what a girl wants to do. A choice made is not weakness.

I love doing things for my husband but I have other responsibilities, interests etc as does he and we fit well that way.

I don’t cater to him in the way that your girl caters to you which again is great as she likes that and so do you.

But I like to surprise him with stuff. Last year I bought him and his father tickets to the Raptors as a surprise bday gift for both of them as their bdays are in the same month.

I also make his breakfast every morning because I get up before him and he likes to have a boiled egg and doesn’t give himself enough time in the morning to make it so it’s always boiled and waiting for him with his coffee and toast when he gets out of the shower. It makes his morning easier and I like that.

But again, no I’m not as submissive as your gf which again, is fine it’s just not my thing.

Happy that it worked out for you both.
 

HankHill

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You sound like a boss, not a leader. I'm sure it will work temporarily, but most good employees dont stick by their bosses for very long. Anyone can bark out orders and make demands. That is the easiest method of getting people to do things for you. And while necessary at times, it is often not sustainable.

The best method which also yields the best results is to let the women make their own decisions.

Try not asking for anything for a couple weeks and see how much she voluntarily does for you. See what she will do without the worry of upsetting you, without your expectations of her servitude. Your words and actions should plant seeds, which she will water and grow herself. Dont be the guy that plants the seeds and tells her to take care of it.

And when she finally does things for you voluntarily, you praise the h3ll out of her.

If she doesnt do things naturally, without expectations, then she is not a giver or does not respect your leadership. Neither of which are good.
Dude, no. This is how my LTRs (10+yr) faded into nothing, made women feel too comfortable, they didn't have a prize to chase anymore. Women have to be chasing for your attention, approval etc. If you take that off the table you lose.
 

Roober

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Dude, no. This is how my LTRs (10+yr) faded into nothing, made women feel too comfortable, they didn't have a prize to chase anymore. Women have to be chasing for your attention, approval etc. If you take that off the table you lose.
As I stated, your acting like a boss, not a leader. Do you honestly believe your failures were due to the option of free choice? Your previous women got comfortable because you were/are NOT a prize worth fighting for. A woman will always fight and need attention from a man they feel is worth it. The need to define your expectations and manipulate her emotions to ensure that her actions comply with them is derived from insecurity. I will provide a very basic example for context. A woman wants to wear a shirt that makes her look like a *****.

Are you the man that...

1. Wait till she puts it on and throws a fit telling her the clothing is not acceptable?

Or

2. The guy where she wouldnt even consider certain types of clothing because of the standards you exhibit for yourself?

You see, these are both forms of manipulation. However, in #2, she still has the choice. But she is consciously choosing to live by your standards. You want her to make the right choices, but also be forgiving of mistakes she may make (nobody is perfect!). By taking away her freedom of choice, due to the unnecessary emotional roller coaster you may take a ride on, the end result is resentment and anger.

I would suggest some leadership training, which could dramatically improve your mindset. If you have taken some already, it didnt work.

Remember that you don't have answers for a problem, so you should examine all possible solutions. You wont catch me asking for advice on how to lead women or people.
 

logicallefty

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Dude, no. This is how my LTRs (10+yr) faded into nothing, made women feel too comfortable, they didn't have a prize to chase anymore. Women have to be chasing for your attention, approval etc. If you take that off the table you lose.
Same here. I lost some potentially decent women in my younger years because I fell for the single #1 oldest propaganda advise for men ever: Just Be Yourself. Here is the most comical thing about it of all. Suppose I hadn’t ever red pilled, and I fell for that trick another hundred times in my life. Even after that there would still be people who would tell me to keep doing it.
 

guru1000

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Your previous women got comfortable because you were/are NOT a prize worth fighting for.
You can actually be the PRIZE (in comparison) but the woman not perceive so by your loss of frame. Happens all the time ... even to the best.

Business <> Emotional Attraction
Business <> Relationship

Successful leadership in business <> Successful leadership with a woman

Differing leadership. One leads logically, the other does not.

Look at most heavy hitting business owners and leaders, and you will see many failed personal relationships. Failed relationships usually is due to a loss of attraction. Attraction, unlike business, does not work intuitively.
 

lamath

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Not going to lie Hank, it sounds like you were being a total chick about this. She made you mad, you then walked away from the situation hoping she'd check in on you, then you got more mad when it didnt happen. This is what women do. As a man, you either address the situation or you tell her to give you some time to get over it.
Seems like acting like a chicks and communicating thru actions/inactions is often best.
 

Roober

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You can actually be the PRIZE (in comparison) but the woman not perceive so by your loss of frame. Happens all the time ... even to the best.

Business <> Emotional Attraction
Business <> Relationship

Successful leadership in business <> Successful leadership with a woman

Differing leadership. One leads logically, the other does not.

Look at most heavy hitting business owners and leaders, and you will see many failed personal relationships. Failed relationships usually is due to a loss of attraction. Attraction, unlike business, does not work intuitively.
But are you really a prize if you lost your frame?

There may be momentary lapses in frame which LTRs can certainly produce, but overall, losing frame is essentially exposing what is underneath the mask.

Good businessman and good partners in relationships are by no means synonymous. Often times, the qualities that make the best businessman are contrary to building relationships with a partner.

Leadership is leadership, regardless of the circumstances. It is better to motivate people to do things for you than order them to do it themselves. There is certainly a time and place for doling out orders, and I figure that's implied.
 

guru1000

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But are you really a prize if you lost your frame?
Depends on your definition of "prize."

I define prize as: Looks/Money/Status/Intangibles > Than what she can normally attract

Here one can be a prize without frame. Happens ALL the time.

Your definition just means frame.


Good businessman and good partners in relationships are by no means synonymous. Often times, the qualities that make the best businessman are contrary to building relationships with a partner.

Leadership is leadership, regardless of the circumstances. It is better to motivate people to do things for you than order them to do it themselves. There is certainly a time and place for doling out orders, and I figure that's implied.There is certainly a time and place for doling out orders, and I figure that's implied.
He did motivate. No one handcuffed her, enslaved, and brought her over on a bus. She came by her own accord. He didn't bark orders. He was angry incited by a deeper awareness, that is a noticeable (enough) change in her normal behavior. Perfectly fine as I see it.
 

HankHill

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Are you the man that...

1. Wait till she puts it on and throws a fit telling her the clothing is not acceptable?

Or

2. The guy where she wouldnt even consider certain types of clothing because of the standards you exhibit for yourself?

Remember that you don't have answers for a problem, so you should examine all possible solutions. You wont catch me asking for advice on how to lead women or people.
So what if she wears fishnets and you're dressed in tux to go to your high end business party? You say nothing?

It has nothing to do with the type of man you are and everything to do with the type of woman she is. You take home a girl who wears fishnets to the parties regardless of what you wear she'll wear what she thinks is appropriate. You, as a man, will have to correct that behavior. There may be many things she does without even thinking or as sh*t tests that you'll have to tell her what works for you or not. This is how the Alpha wolf in a pack corrects behavior of those who get out of line every now and again. If you don't correct that behavior, if you don't stand up to her for what you believe in she will have no respect for you. This actually applies to the leadership in business too but in a different paradigm. As an aside I've been in management for the past 15 yrs...I have managers below me. Some I go to lunch with and are like friends, others who I strictly have a superior/subordinate relationship with. You deal with all kinds of people and you have to adapt your leadership to the people you're leading. Ultimately they have to follow your style or they're out.

As for the prize thing...she has to believe: you're higher SMV than her, you have options, you give her what she needs. Her seeking your approval and her knowing that you're not just a floater and will leave if she doesn't comply is what keeps you valuable (attractive) in her eyes. On the surface she may be pissed off but her inner female is screaming for her to make you happy and get your approval. That inner female desires you. If that stops it's time to eject and find another woman.
 

Atom Smasher

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This girl sounds like a gem to me.

I know it is frustrating when a woman detaches and hopes that the problem will magically go away by your forgetting about it. That does piss me off.

I find that submissive women aren’t always that aware of how to proactively handle conflict.
 

allancc3

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Reading between the lines, this guy has found and kept a (very) low status/value woman who will have him.

1. she's got a lot of money. If she were rich AND good looking, she'd literally have more dating options than alleged holocaust victims (which is an infinite number). So you can rule out her being good looking, which is the sole source of women's value.

2. she's already talking retirement. Would a hot, 20 something woman be talking retirement already? This means she is old.

3. she's putting up with his sh1t. She is heavily invested. This means she has no other options. There is a 100% chance she is below average looking.

This guy is bragging about being alpha but in reality he himself is heavily invested in a super low value chick. Considering he throws temper tantrums over trivialities and considering how heavily invested he is in an old, not so good looking woman, he's the exact opposite of alpha.

Add to all that, this woman is very low self esteem. Who would even consider spending more than a polite moment with such a chick, much less investing a lifetime with her?!?

As for the prize thing...she has to believe: you're higher SMV than her, you have options, you give her what she needs. Her seeking your approval and her knowing that you're not just a floater and will leave if she doesn't comply is what keeps you valuable (attractive) in her eyes. On the surface she may be pissed off but her inner female is screaming for her to make you happy and get your approval. That inner female desires you. If that stops it's time to eject and find another woman.
I doubt that's difficult in this situation. She has to be very close to rock bottom in female smv for her to even entertain the possibility of tolerating this bullsh1t. Even an average smv woman in the states BELIEVES she has six Gorillion options in men, waiting at her beck and call.

If she DOESN'T believe this, she has got to be bottom tier. The problem now is, OP has some sort of emotional investment in showing this forum how "alpha" he is. This means he will continue to chase the very bottom tier of women if this doesn't work out. OP's true goal is to mind fvck himself and everyone on the forum into believing he is an alpha male when in reality he chases the lowest tier girls which actually makes him a beta male.
 
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guru1000

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Reading between the lines, this guy has found and kept a (very) low status/value woman who will have him.

1. she's got a lot of money. If she were rich AND good looking, she'd literally have more dating options than alleged holocaust victims (which is an infinite number). So you can rule out her being good looking, which is the sole source of women's value.

2. she's already talking retirement. Would a hot, 20 something woman be talking retirement already? This means she is old.

3. she's putting up with his sh1t. She is heavily invested. This means she has no other options. There is a 100% chance she is below average looking.

This guy is bragging about being alpha but in reality he himself is heavily invested in a super low value chick. Considering he throws temper tantrums over trivialities and considering how heavily invested he is in an old, not so good looking woman, he's the exact opposite of alpha.

Add to all that, this woman is very low self esteem. Who would even consider spending more than a polite moment with such a chick, much less investing a lifetime with her?!?
Naughty Ninja or is this the guy who ducked my Tinder Challenge?

That's the great thing about frame; that is, it operates outside of SMV. You see hot chicks worshipping dirt bags all the time. Nothing do with her SMV at all, and everything to do with his frame.

Are you game for another Tinder challenge, or are you going to duck and weave me again.
 

Roober

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So what if she wears fishnets and you're dressed in tux to go to your high end business party? You say nothing?

It has nothing to do with the type of man you are and everything to do with the type of woman she is. You take home a girl who wears fishnets to the parties regardless of what you wear she'll wear what she thinks is appropriate. You, as a man, will have to correct that behavior. There may be many things she does without even thinking or as sh*t tests that you'll have to tell her what works for you or not. This is how the Alpha wolf in a pack corrects behavior of those who get out of line every now and again. If you don't correct that behavior, if you don't stand up to her for what you believe in she will have no respect for you. This actually applies to the leadership in business too but in a different paradigm. As an aside I've been in management for the past 15 yrs...I have managers below me. Some I go to lunch with and are like friends, others who I strictly have a superior/subordinate relationship with. You deal with all kinds of people and you have to adapt your leadership to the people you're leading. Ultimately they have to follow your style or they're out.

As for the prize thing...she has to believe: you're higher SMV than her, you have options, you give her what she needs. Her seeking your approval and her knowing that you're not just a floater and will leave if she doesn't comply is what keeps you valuable (attractive) in her eyes. On the surface she may be pissed off but her inner female is screaming for her to make you happy and get your approval. That inner female desires you. If that stops it's time to eject and find another woman.
Your missing the point. My woman would never show up in fishnets, yours would.
 

HankHill

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LOL Here we go again, the juvenile my d*ck's bigger than your's posters are trickling in now after the party's over haha

If you're going to post sh*t like that also post pics of these hot 20yo submissive women you're boning...with proof. Otherwise it's just haters who gonna hate.
 

HankHill

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Naughty Ninja or is this the guy who ducked my Tinder Challenge?

That's the great thing about frame; that is, it operates outside of SMV. You see hot chicks worshipping dirt bags all the time. Nothing do with her SMV at all, and everything to do with his frame.

Are you game for another Tinder challenge, or are you going to duck and weave me again.
His writing style gives it away! :rofl:
 

HankHill

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Your missing the point. My woman would never show up in fishnets, yours would.
That doesn't even make any sense. You meet some woman, you invite her to a party, how can you guarantee she won't wear what's inappropriate to you? You date mind readers? The guy at work is having a bad day, he doesn't finish his assignment on time how can you guarantee that won't happen just because you're his 'leader'? makes zero sense.
 

allancc3

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Well I agree, there are VERY few women that would put up with this, but if it is what you want and expect, then you should not settle... But if you are like this, then expect to be alone most of your life. There is NOTHING wrong with not having a chick in your life, in fact it is MUCH better to be alone than to live with a woman that makes you miserable.

BINGO! And it's because her SMV is as low as it could be.
 

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Seems like I missed this party.

It seems to me there's deeper issues at play here or that 1 off forgetfulness would have been overlooked.

As for the ladies who posted in this thread - it's all useless advice that's only applicable to men wanting to live in a female narrated world and at the end of it they're gonna end up as an Incel or just a pathetic loser.
 

logicallefty

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