Second date apathy - advice for tonight

[BJP1991]

It's ok mate, feel free to flake on them if you want - listen to your intuition, if your intuition tells you something is off about interaction, follow it. Never listen to any guy or woman that tells you that you should follow some obligations.

They are mostly speaking through their own bad experience with ppl that acted like you may act and it's still only 50% of the story (perhaps they were flaked on because they didn't try to understand the other person or had their own insincere agenda).

Human emotional memory is like a plasticine.

I have a rather high level beta-friend that I helped to get his wife - true story - he was so deep in the emotional dumpster that he didn't believe he can get a GF - so I helped him to match with his wife being myself in the relationship already.

Fast forward 2 years later he started to shi.t-talk to me that I still hook up with girls on Tinder and when he felt 'attacked' because I told him he does not have what it takes to be an enterpreneur (mind I just returned the courtesy, he was the one that picked on me) - he didn't consider me friend since that point and I was pretty much responsible for his current personal happiness to large extent LOL

In his own mind I was this sneaky freestyle guy that ALWAYS lands on 4 paws, eh and he was the knight in the shining armour. Always.

Don't give a phuck about beta boyz 'follow the rulz' talk.

PHUCK their rulez. Go after your own purpose, let them rot in the bluepilled pool of s.hit. and alpha 1.0 outdated processing code.

Preach - thanks for the support in seeing where im coming from. As a single male, comfortable in my skin, career, lifestyle, I’m allowed to choose how I please in terms of my time and money. I chose not to see her again, something I am already benefiting from (I’m saving money/time, and getting to spend the night with a different girl, who actually is legit). As men we are free to do and choose as we please, and I won’t listen to crying white knights telling me I’m less of a man because I didn’t hold ONE date plan with someone I’m not genuinely interested in. Plain and simple.

Now, white knights, since we (apparently) care SO MUCH about the girl in this scenario, don’t you agree that cancelling the date altogether is in both of our best interests, vs me going on the date, “faking” a good time, and leading her on further? Lol - F that. “How dare you have such low moral code for flaking on her - you should have kept the date and led her on even further, perhaps slept with her to get her hopes up even further than before!” Ha - STFU. Going on a date just to “hold your word” and not because you “genuinely want to be there” is literally equally as bad. Morons.

 

[Black Widow Void]

He was rescheduled - it's a bad sign,

This changes things entirely. I take it that you were in on that particular phone call or... you got a copy of that transcript?
Seriously though... a counter offer was accepted after her two day advance notice cancellation. And... the OP wanted to "hang out with his hommies" and canceled a few hours prior to the date event.
The female in this scenario behaved more like a stand-up man than the OP.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@Mauser96 @Black Widow Void
@BackInTheGame78
I've walked out mid-date before if i don't feel attraction or something about the girl turns me off. i kindly excuse myself and tell her i don't think it'll work out, then i go do something i feel more inclined to do. THAT is a man's way, to be honest with himself and exercise his will on reality. do you know how almost ALL of these women respond? with kindness, with relief, with admiration. they appreciate me not wasting both of our time together, for not stringing her along when i have no attraction. they appreciate my honesty and see me as higher value than they did before. higher value than a man that would sit through a date he doesn't want to be on. they look up to me and my behavior inspires them.

no one here has explained why telling a woman you're not interested in that you're not interested is bad. No one has explained how to properly let this woman down if they feel direct communication is the wrong answer. sitting on a date with a woman you're not interested in is disrespectful to her. do you think she would want to sit there with you if she knew you had no attraction? how do you think it makes her feel to sense that you do not want to be around her yet don't leave? how do you think that date will go? you will either fake interest to not hurt her feelings(because you're not man enough to do what you really want) which will only hurt her feelings more in the long term and make you look like a complete coward, or you'll come off as a priick and hurt her feelings throughout the date. rip the bandaid off and move on with life. it will save her LOTS of grief and confusion.

what i sense from you gentlemen is a form of mental masturbation. you only suggest what you think a man should do because it makes you feel good to say so. you are not basing your answers in reality because you have no experience disqualifying women this way. if you did you would come to the same conclusion i have, that almost all women LOVE a man that goes for what he wants and doesn't compromise, even if that compromise is being with her for the rest of the date. if i'm wrong then you should be able to easily provide a logical argument for your decision to go against your core principles.

imagine there's a military draft because your country is being invaded and your gf or wife is begging you to dodge the draft, to avoid it at all costs and hide and stay with her. if you feel you should fight for your country she will respect you LESS if you actually dodge the draft only for her. she will grow to resent you for not being a man. and you will grow to resent her because you dodged the draft on the condition of her providing you love. when she inevitable starts to value you less for your spineless actions you will both be miserable.

now imagine you go fight for your country because you believe it's the right thing to do, because you want to protect your home country from an invasion, despite your girl pleading for you to stay. she threatens to leave you, she threatens to never talk to you again, but your mind is made up, you're going. she will respect you MORE for sticking to your principles in the face of her demands and threats. if she devalues you for going fine, but you never devalued yourself. you stuck to your principles and what you believe in.

you should never let emotions dictate your decisions in life, EVER. emotions will cloud your judgement. we make our best decisions when we are in a calm, relaxed state, when we are being pragmatic. if you want power, wealth, and a strong healthy family with a reliable partner, then you should always make your decisions rationally and with sound logic.

women may give you rules and barriers but they secretly want you to overcome them with your charm and charisma. they get off on you breaking through your personal and inter-personal barriers in life. they enjoy watching you be this strong man that does not settle for what life hands him. they do not want a supplicating man that bends backwards for them or does things for them out of pity at the expense of their self worth. that will dry up a woman's panties faster than anything. they want a charming yet stubborn man. a man that is always hungry for more in life and going out to get it.

 

[Black Widow Void]

@EyeOnThePrize

We're not talking about a ""bait and switch." The OP knew the layout when he made the commitment. He broke his word, his honor and the core of what defines a man.

This isn't about "never let[ting] emotions dictate your decisions"
This is about never letting fickleness or flimsy excuses obscuring the basis which defines manhood.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

We're not talking about a ""bait and switch." The OP knew the layout when he made the commitment. He broke his word, his honor and the core of what defines a man.

where did OP describe a bait and switch? he agreed on the date when he was interested, but after a hard week he no longer cared and realized he was apathetic towards her. there is no bait and switch.

This is about never letting fickleness or flimsy excuses obscuring the basis which defines manhood.

flimsy excuses? what is the flimsy excuse? that he doesn't find her interesting and is not attracted? that sounds like a pretty damn good reason to not see this woman to me.

unless you start making some logical sense and stop tossing around vague terminology as if it means something on its own then i'm done here.

 

[AttackFormation]

So, in general, I agree. However my mindset is already too negative about it, and I believe it would only come to the surface during the date.

To play devil’s advocate: why are men expected to adhere to rules and “Manning up” and holding fast to commitments, yet our female counterparts are not held to the same standards? In the end, we’re all humans - can we not do and say as we please, to serve ourselves better than someone who we barely even know? Call it selfish, but I relate it to being “no more mr nice guy” mentality - I am putting myself first by not following through on a date with a girl, who (1) has done nothing to win me over yet, (2) cancelled/rescheduled on me once already, and (3) is already someone I’d consider being “on the fence about” in the first place, in terms of being someone I want to continue seeing. It’s rude, I get that part.


I find it super ironic at times on this site. We all back each other up, tell each other that “you’re the prize/great catch”, yet if we decide to cancel a date with a girl, we are less than that suddenly?

I’m honestly just looking to hear what you all think. Am I crazy to think this way? Putting myself and my own mindset (not to mention, my money) first, above following through on a commitment to a girl who I genuinely no longer care for?

Am I being too cynical here? Does anyone see what I’m getting at?

I understand men should be “true to their word” but, in reality, it’s 2020 almost. Shouldn’t we be doing what we want, when we want to do it? Rather than conforming to a rule (or in this case, a date) that we aren’t even sure we want to do or even care about anymore? Why do we have this moral obligation to fulfill commitments with women who all to often drop us because their pet snail is trying to get pregnant and tonight’s the only night it will work to meet with the snail breeder? For real, guys. What gives - why are we so black and white here.

Asking for a friend - thanks.

You can do whatever you want with the woman, but the answer to this post as a whole aside from the woman is that you have a mislead mindset.

Virtue is its own reward, not done merely for women. It's an internal standard, not external.

 

[BJP1991]

You can do whatever you want with the woman, but the answer to this post as a whole is that you have a misleaded mindset.

Virtue is its own reward, not done merely for women. It's an internal standard, not external.

Virtue in following through on something, not because it’s what I want to do in the core of myself, but because it is expected of me as a “man”?

Again, nobody is giving anything behind their statements. It’s face-value: “Follow through because you’re a man of virtue, a man of your word, a standup gentleman that others can rely on”. Duh - I know this. However why should I go on the date if I don’t fu***** want to even be there? Because I need to “hold up to the code of man”? Haha - such a joke.

“I’m high and mighty because I follow through on commitments, even if it comes at my own loss in terms of money, time, and energy, when I actually could be doing something else I genuinely enjoy/want to be doing.” - this is what you sound like. Because you’re still not saying anything, other than repeating the same ****, droning like a drum: “I am man. I stick to my word. I am man. I stick to my word” and “You didn’t stick to your word, you are less than man. You didn’t stick to your word, you are less than man.”

A man shouldn’t be required to hold up his end of a bargain for a second date. I owe it to myself to be true to what I feel is best, for all parties involved.


Let me ask this: If you felt apathetic about a second date and would rather do something else instead, would you actually go sit on the date, fake a good time, and pretend like that’s better than just skipping it all together? That’s honesty more fu**ed up than just flaking entirely and going on with your life. All you’re doing is kicking the can down the road - how don’t you see that.

 

[AttackFormation]

Virtue in following through on something, not because it’s what I want to do in the core of myself, but because it is expected of me as a “man”?

Again, nobody is giving anything behind their statements. It’s face-value: “Follow through because you’re a man of virtue, a man of your word, a standup gentleman that others can rely on”. Duh - I know this. However why should I go on the date if I don’t fu***** want to even be there? Because I need to “hold up to the code of man”? Haha - such a joke.

“I’m high and mighty because I follow through on commitments, even if it comes at my own loss in terms of money, time, and energy, when I actually could be doing something else I genuinely enjoy/want to be doing.” - this is what you sound like. Because you’re still not saying anything, other than repeating the same ****, droning like a drum: “I am man. I stick to my word. I am man. I stick to my word” and “You didn’t stick to your word, you are less than man. You didn’t stick to your word, you are less than man.”

A man shouldn’t be required to hold up his end of a bargain for a second date. Just because I agree to a date initially doesn’t mean I MUST do it. I’m single. I’m free to do as I please.


Let me ask this: If you felt apathetic about a second date and would rather do something else instead, would you actually go sit on the date, fake a good time, and pretend like that’s better than just skipping it all together? That’s honesty more fu**ed up than just flaking entirely and going on with your life. All you’re doing is kicking the can down the road - how don’t you see that.

I was not commenting on your choice of action, you can do whatever you want with her. I was trying to give you a perspective on what virtue really is, or could be.

 

[BJP1991]

I was not commenting on your choice of action, you can do whatever you want with her. I was trying to give you a perspective on what virtue really is, or could be.

I agree, I understand that entirely. I don’t think a single interaction where I cancel a second date is a signal of poor virtue, however. My life is overall pretty great and I enjoy many things in life. I put forth virtue in basically all aspects - career, family, friends, passions.

 

[AttackFormation]

I agree, I understand that entirely. I don’t think a single interaction where I cancel a second date is a signal of poor virtue, however. My life is overall pretty great and I enjoy many things in life. I put forth virtue in basically all aspects - career, family, friends, passions.

Basically you were both projecting about her character and using it to justify your own action. To me, that sounds similar to something a kid in the ghetto might say - "why should I be law abiding, go to school and and behave well? the people around me don't. Why shouldn't I just be like them?". It means your sense of self is sourced externally rather than internally, making it a pathway to cynicism and poor life outcomes in a negative feedback loop. That's why I said virtue is its own reward.

So if you are going to flake on her (or reschedule if you want to see her but just not then), just own that. You could well be right that she could be a piece of shyt herself for all we know. But I would still not want to use that as a cynical excuse, because I don't want to base who I am off of her.

What I'm describing is related to stoicism, which is an ideal... and that means don't fret if you are not perfect in all things all the time. Just take accountability without cynical excuse, remain positive and move on. Once you accept that, you won't feel the need to reply anymore in this thread.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

where did OP describe a bait and switch? he agreed on the date when he was interested, but after a hard week he no longer cared and realized he was apathetic towards her. there is no bait and switch.


flimsy excuses? what is the flimsy excuse? that he doesn't find her interesting and is not attracted? that sounds like a pretty damn good reason to not see this woman to me.

unless you start making some logical sense and stop tossing around vague terminology as if it means something on its own then i'm done here.

Interest in a woman shouldn't change that drastically in a week. He is lying to himself at some point. Either it was when he made the date initially or the day he was supposed to go on the date.