Rate this guys face plz

[The Duke]

well your making some good points here.

but what other factors could come into it in the first few seconds of observing a man ..other than his Looks ?
(which would also include) ;
-His body language /confidence
-Whether he is an alpha or beta type of male.
-An impression of his social status

So firstly there is a sexual spark or sexual desire response from the woman that’s purely Looks based re the man. - Looks and how he is interacting and behaving (his perceived status) . Observed quickly. from afar.

then in the interaction it’s ,
- confidence in speaking
- intelligence and sense of humour
- proof of his status
- him making her feel she’s particularly of interest to him, is ‘unique’
- trading signals of interest back and forth/flirting
- taking next steps to physical intimacy

that’s about it re the process of a man and woman getting together right? Those other factors you mentioned after looks….

Sexual attraction usually comes first but the rest of that stuff holds significance to the majority of women. Its why you struggle to get 2nd dates and one of your recent dates called you "transactional". The entire forum has tried to tell you multiple times that there is more to it than sexual attraction and looks.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Sexual attraction usually comes first but the rest of that stuff holds significance to the majority of women. Its why you struggle to get 2nd dates and one of your recent dates called you "transactional". The entire forum has tried to tell you multiple times that there is more to it than sexual attraction and looks.

As is usually the case:

"Advice is seldom welcome; and those who need it the most, like it the least."

- Lord Chesterfield

 

[BeExcellent]

well your making some good points here.

but what other factors could come into it in the first few seconds of observing a man ..other than his Looks ?
(which would also include) ;
-His body language /confidence
-Whether he is an alpha or beta type of male.
-An impression of his social status

So firstly there is a sexual spark or sexual desire response from the woman that’s purely Looks based re the man. - Looks and how he is interacting and behaving (his perceived status) . Observed quickly. from afar.

then in the interaction it’s ,
- confidence in speaking
- intelligence and sense of humour
- proof of his status
- him making her feel she’s particularly of interest to him, is ‘unique’
- trading signals of interest back and forth/flirting
- taking next steps to physical intimacy

that’s about it re the process of a man and woman getting together right? Those other factors you mentioned after looks….

Things that are observable immediately:

1. Appearance (looks/clothing/grooming)
2. Fitness level
3. Style (clothing/hair/grooming)
4. Voice and manner of speaking
5. Vibe
6. The way people around him act around him (do they defer, do they respect his personal space, do they ignore)
7. Gaze (does he hold eye contact)
8. Body language
9. Confidence (or lack thereof)
10. Engagement with others

I have met very attractive doctors, lawyers, businessmen, corp execs, entertainers, pro athletes.

One lawyer I had a date with could not conversate for anything (I wondered how he ever became a lawyer) but I suppose he was booksmart in his field. He was a sexy enough looking man, but his lack of conversational ability and lack of engagement made the date extremely boring and I was relieved when it was over. Whatever attraction was there at first vanished when I realized he was boring and awkward.

Its not good when a woman feels relieved to get away from you.

Another time I was dancing on the dance floor at a hip nightclub. An internationally famous recording artist came to the club after his touring show had finished in the local area. He had various security staff as part of his entourage. One of his security men approached me and wanted to bring me over to meet the artist. I'm nobody's groupie. I asked the security guy "Do his legs work?" and the security guy looked caught off guard and said "Of course." I said "Well then he can walk over here himself if he wants to talk to me." The security guard was surprised, and went back to the artist, who did not come over himself. So that was a turn off entirely. Be a man for crying out loud.

The artist likely wanted some hot girl to bang & toss, and that was not my jam at all. Some other chick can be a groupie. Not me.

Both the examples I gave were very attractive high status men. So yeah, looks are NOT everything nor are looks the most important thing. Sometimes looks are the initial thing - the admittance to being seen by a desirable woman. That's it. From there its everything else, and everything else matters!

 

[Cheeky_James]

Sexual attraction usually comes first but the rest of that stuff holds significance to the majority of women. Its why you struggle to get 2nd dates and one of your recent dates called you "transactional". The entire forum has tried to tell you multiple times that there is more to it than sexual attraction and looks.

And I keep saying you cannot make the call that it was ‘personality’ or ‘game’ .. until you read the womans date report / what she tells her GFs.. it may well indeed be just Looks simply. (Or Status & Money)

And it usually is just that.
my dates not progressing would likely have been due to( in order)

1 = not enough money /lifestyle (her :no kids, lots of disposable income, frequent traveller)

2- = too not old, BadBoy enough (her : last ex bf was an ex con , she does a lot of party drugs)

3 = too short , not fit enough (her: she was my height and fit bodied)

I’ve had 2 good dates also in this time - where I displayed the same personality/game , that the 2 women found a turn on and dates very successful.

My most recent new one (Monday) very much so. She was very ‘green light’ immediately.
Also, I told that chick the feedback/date report from the 3rd chick and she rolled her eyes & laughing at chicks comments.

Then an hour later gave me a BJ in her car.

So there you go.

it’s not really the ‘fault’ of the guy or his ‘bad game’ ..or a lack of ‘understanding’ (lol) that’s very much over-rated.

It’s mainly Looks and Status and also luck/good timing = success.
Not ‘game’.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Things that are observable immediately:

1. Appearance (looks/clothing/grooming)
2. Fitness level
3. Style (clothing/hair/grooming)
4. Voice and manner of speaking
5. Vibe
6. The way people around him act around him (do they defer, do they respect his personal space, do they ignore)
7. Gaze (does he hold eye contact)
8. Body language
9. Confidence (or lack thereof)
10. Engagement with others

I have met very attractive doctors, lawyers, businessmen, corp execs, entertainers, pro athletes.

One lawyer I had a date with could not conversate for anything (I wondered how he ever became a lawyer) but I suppose he was booksmart in his field. He was a sexy enough looking man, but his lack of conversational ability and lack of engagement made the date extremely boring and I was relieved when it was over. Whatever attraction was there at first vanished when I realized he was boring and awkward.

Its not good when a woman feels relieved to get away from you.

Another time I was dancing on the dance floor at a hip nightclub. An internationally famous recording artist came to the club after his touring show had finished in the local area. He had various security staff as part of his entourage. One of his security men approached me and wanted to bring me over to meet the artist. I'm nobody's groupie. I asked the security guy "Do his legs work?" and the security guy looked caught off guard and said "Of course." I said "Well then he can walk over here himself if he wants to talk to me." The security guard was surprised, and went back to the artist, who did not come over himself. So that was a turn off entirely. Be a man for crying out loud.

The artist likely wanted some hot girl to bang & toss, and that was not my jam at all. Some other chick can be a groupie. Not me.

Both the examples I gave were very attractive high status men. So yeah, looks are NOT everything nor are looks the most important thing. Sometimes looks are the initial thing - the admittance to being seen by a desirable woman. That's it. From there its everything else, and everything else matters!

thanks.
Well points
1-3 = Looks
4-10 = High Status / Alpha behaviours

So it not ‘everything ’ else mate. It’s a pretty narrow criteria of what makes a man very attractive to women.

mainly : Looks & Status

And to the degree of how much the guy scores highly in both categories. Is how attractive he will be .
Ie -his SMV rating.

So that’s good to read above and good to know.

next we just need to break down what ‘vibe’ means and the different types of Vibe a man can have .

I fhink it’s
- Alpha male vibe
- Calm and magnetic vibe
- Dark Triad Vibe
- Beta / weak vibe
- weirdo/oddball /wacky/ jestering vibe


And first 3 of those vibes being preferable for a guy to have I think.

btw this is a great exercise so far

 

[BeExcellent]

So in my estimation looks are only 10% of the formula. That means its 90% everything else.

 

[Cheeky_James]

So in my estimation looks are only 10% of the formula. That means its 90% everything else.

well not really.
As a guys looks determine wether he gets in the first door.. at all.

So you’re saying it’s 90% STATUS then.

woah . That’s a brutal black pill!

Maybe that’s the real truth of it

goes back to that famous old quote by Henry Kissinger.

“Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac “

yeah. He could well be right by the looks of it !

or Tony Montanas quote from Scarface

Very Interesting .. as my lil Brazilian mate totally had the Tony Montana power vibe going on.

 

[BeExcellent]

Well its not all that black pill really unless one chooses to be defeatist and view it that way. It explains why social circle is a good way to level up. A woman can get to know you even if you aren't the most "face" dude, and they will start to like you as they get to know you if you are a cool man with a good vibe.

Really that should be good news.

It also explains why how you groom yourself, how you dress, and how you maintain your physique all matter (and why the board here places so much emphasis on those things)....you as an individual have control over those things. Why not look your best in ways you can do that for yourself? It broadcasts that you look after yourself, and THAT (having the self discipline to look after yourself) is an attractive quality.

And back to what Atom Smasher said about how you make a woman feel....Look at The Duke for example. He is a great C&W dancer. Women LOVE to dance. Women LOVE men who can dance, because relatively few men bother to learn this skill. So if you can dance you can be physically close to women, and you can make them FEEL happy/excited/sexy/special etc. just by dancing! My accomplished seducer friend? Bad ass dancer. Nothing to do with looks although most men who dance are some level of fit.....

Why are motorcycles attractive? How it makes a person feel.
Ditto fast cars, ditto great bartenders, ditto great conversationalists, ditto charm.

You get very far irrespective of looks if you elicit a positive emotional response in people.

Charm & charisma is irrespective and independent of looks.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Well its not all that black pill really unless one chooses to be defeatist and view it that way. It explains why social circle is a good way to level up. A woman can get to know you even if you aren't the most "face" dude, and they will start to like you as they get to know you if you are a cool man with a good vibe.

Really that should be good news.

Yes social circle and particularly status in a social niche is a good strategy. I’ve talked about this another thread re Neil Strauss ‘ game ..and Solomon gave great tips on how a guy could do it.

It also explains why how you groom yourself, how you dress, and how you maintain your physique all matter (and why the board here places so much emphasis on those things)....you as an individual have control over those things. Why not look your best in ways you can do that for yourself? It broadcasts that you look after yourself, and THAT (having the self discipline to look after yourself) is an attractive quality.

This = LooksMaxxing.
which I’ve been advocating this whole thread and in other threads as the main strategy to get better results with women. not sure why you put a question mark in there for me. It’s my position.

And back to what Atom Smasher said about how you make a woman feel....Look at The Duke for example. He is a great C&W dancer. Women LOVE to dance. Women LOVE men who can dance, because relatively few men bother to learn this skill. So if you can dance you can be physically close to women, and you can make them FEEL happy/excited/sexy/special etc. just by dancing! My accomplished seducer friend? Bad ass dancer. Nothing to do with looks although most men who dance are some level of fit.....

Why are motorcycles attractive? How it makes a person feel.
Ditto fast cars, ditto great bartenders, ditto great conversationalists, ditto charm.

You get very far irrespective of looks if you elicit a positive emotional response in people.

These are Alpha traits / bad boy traits.
Leading (dance) and motorbikes ( alpha masculine)

Charm & charisma is irrespective and independent of looks.

no actually. They are not.
that’s the big fallacy here.

good looks + status , and charm and charisma are all tied together love,
because of the halo effect of good looks. And the positive bias toward good looks IRL leading to status . Which leads to charisma.
it is usually good looking people , who are referred to as charming and charismatic babe.
or powerful people.

you guys on here try to pry these elements apart and if they are separate entities - and there’s an underlying message the latter fhings can be improved on their own . Without the former .( good looks) the basis for it all.

but they can’t actually . Not significantly.
As to move the needle with women.

a mid looking guy or even ugly looking guy will struggle very much to accumulate ‘status’ IRL.

So it’s a fallacy (and bad strategy) to pick that out separately as something to be worked on and accumulated

it’s quite difficult to gain status and power IRL.
Obviously.

As everybody wants it.

The best looking people / most dominant people get the status automatically.

and that status is fought for .
Etc etc etc .

it’s an unrealistic strategy you guys are spooking here tbh.

A lesser looking dude would need to display bucketloads of charm tbh . Fvcktons of ‘charisma’ . Somehow. (How? Idk)
And even then. …if he could
It’s most likely still be a ‘no’ from the higher smv women. Cos he just doesn’t have the looks.

he’ll be framed as a ‘try hard’. He is just a guy acting above his obvious position. Determined mainly by his Looks.

Happens all the time tbh. And it’s a common phrase used by women towards such men.

“try hard”

 

[Plinco]

As is usually the case:

"Advice is seldom welcome; and those who need it the most, like it the least."

- Lord Chesterfield

I'll remember that when I give you advice

Yes social circle and particularly status in a social niche is a good strategy. I’ve talked about this another thread re Neil Strauss ‘ game ..and Solomon gave great tips on how a guy could do it.



This = LooksMaxxing.
which I’ve been advocating this whole thread and in other threads as the main strategy to get better results with women. not sure why you put a question mark in there for me. It’s my position.



These are Alpha traits / bad boy traits.
Leading (dance) and motorbikes ( alpha masculine)



no actually. They are not.
that’s the big fallacy here.

good looks + status , and charm and charisma are all tied together love,
because of the halo effect of good looks. And the positive bias toward good looks IRL leading to status . Which leads to charisma.
it is usually good looking people , who are referred to as charming and charismatic babe.
or powerful people.

you guys on here try to pry these elements apart and if they are separate entities - and there’s an underlying message the latter fhings can be improved on their own . Without the former .( good looks) the basis for it all.

but they can’t actually . Not significantly.
As to move the needle with women.

a mid looking guy or even ugly looking guy will struggle very much to accumulate ‘status’ IRL.

So it’s a fallacy (and bad strategy) to pick that out separately as something to be worked on and accumulated

it’s quite difficult to gain status and power IRL.
Obviously.

As everybody wants it.

The best looking people / most dominant people get the status automatically.

and that status is fought for .
Etc etc etc .

it’s an unrealistic strategy you guys are spooking here tbh.

A lesser looking dude would need to display bucketloads of charm tbh . Fvcktons of ‘charisma’ . Somehow. (How? Idk)
And even then. …if he could
It’s most likely still be a ‘no’ from the higher smv women. Cos he just doesn’t have the looks.

he’ll be framed as a ‘try hard’. He is just a guy acting above his obvious position. Determined mainly by his Looks.

Happens all the time tbh. And it’s a common phrase used by women towards such men.

“try hard”

Some of @BeExcellent 's wisdom is fun but she has all kinds of beliefs that aren't rooted in reason. Stop bringing yourself down by justifying yourself, you are not going to change her mind and I don't know if she's interested in having a discussion. See my thread here:

Self Improvement Is "Weird"

In my experience, the more independent minded I've become, the better my life had been. The more I've taken control for my own sake, the more I've re-shaped the world around me to fit my needs. The reason is straight forward. I know what my needs are more acutely than anyone else. I also...

www.sosuave.net

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'll remember that when I give you advice



Some of @BeExcellent 's wisdom is fun but she has all kinds of beliefs that aren't rooted in reason. Stop bringing yourself down by justifying yourself, you are not going to change her mind and I don't know if she's interested in having a discussion. See my thread here:

Self Improvement Is "Weird"

In my experience, the more independent minded I've become, the better my life had been. The more I've taken control for my own sake, the more I've re-shaped the world around me to fit my needs. The reason is straight forward. I know what my needs are more acutely than anyone else. I also...

www.sosuave.net

Well if I want to learn how to mow a lawn properly, you'll be the first person I ask.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Yes social circle and particularly status in a social niche is a good strategy. I’ve talked about this another thread re Neil Strauss ‘ game ..and Solomon gave great tips on how a guy could do it.



This = LooksMaxxing.
which I’ve been advocating this whole thread and in other threads as the main strategy to get better results with women. not sure why you put a question mark in there for me. It’s my position.



These are Alpha traits / bad boy traits.
Leading (dance) and motorbikes ( alpha masculine)



no actually. They are not.
that’s the big fallacy here.

good looks + status , and charm and charisma are all tied together love,
because of the halo effect of good looks. And the positive bias toward good looks IRL leading to status . Which leads to charisma.
it is usually good looking people , who are referred to as charming and charismatic babe.
or powerful people.

you guys on here try to pry these elements apart and if they are separate entities - and there’s an underlying message the latter fhings can be improved on their own . Without the former .( good looks) the basis for it all.

but they can’t actually . Not significantly.
As to move the needle with women.

a mid looking guy or even ugly looking guy will struggle very much to accumulate ‘status’ IRL.

So it’s a fallacy (and bad strategy) to pick that out separately as something to be worked on and accumulated

it’s quite difficult to gain status and power IRL.
Obviously.

As everybody wants it.

The best looking people / most dominant people get the status automatically.

and that status is fought for .
Etc etc etc .

it’s an unrealistic strategy you guys are spooking here tbh.

A lesser looking dude would need to display bucketloads of charm tbh . Fvcktons of ‘charisma’ . Somehow. (How? Idk)
And even then. …if he could
It’s most likely still be a ‘no’ from the higher smv women. Cos he just doesn’t have the looks.

he’ll be framed as a ‘try hard’. He is just a guy acting above his obvious position. Determined mainly by his Looks.

Happens all the time tbh. And it’s a common phrase used by women towards such men.

“try hard”

You can develop charisma with mid-tier looks