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Barrister

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More attention and love are given to children. That’s life . I don’t see what the problem is. That doesn’t mean that romance dies or sex goes away for people who don’t want that to happen.

Maybe I’m different. I don’t need female validation and attention all freaking day, everyday. And much of my focus is on raising well-adjusted, competent children.
I think most men can live with more love and attention going to the children. That isn't an issue I agree. The issue arises when women pour 100% of their effort into being mom, and 0 into being wife. This is a very common occurrence in marriages.

I would say that if you aren't dealing with this and are still getting plenty of love and affection from your wife you have a good one -- very rare these days.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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I would say that if you aren't dealing with this and are still getting plenty of love and affection from your wife you have a good one -- very rare these days.
This is where your masculinity comes into play. She looks at you for leadership, so lead. By example. Don't become a 'Dad' only, but stay exciting for her as well so she won't forget to be your wife.
 

Barrister

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This is where your masculinity comes into play. She looks at you for leadership, so lead. By example. Don't become a 'Dad' only, but stay exciting for her as well so she won't forget to be your wife.
Agreed a man's leadership is also important. However, my personal experience, as well as observing others in their marriages, is that you can do most things right including leading and it many times doesn't mean your relationship is immune to the deterioration. Certainly, a man should always be the leader in any relationship and his failure to do so will only expedite that process.
 

BeExcellent

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For a woman it should always be the following priority list:

1. Wife/lover to husband
2. Partner/friend to husband
3. Parent

Why? Because assuming you get married for life, your spouse is the single most important person and relationship in your life. More important than her parents, his parents, more important than the children.

The sexual chemistry and lover interaction between husband and wife is top priority for a reason. That's the glue that keeps you attracted.

Out of that sexual attraction & intimacy grows the partnership & friendship that gets the couple through thick & thin times.

Parenting is the 3rd priority for two very good reasons. First, being a parent should be temporary relative to being a spouse (often now however that is no longer the case.) Secondly, children need to learn what a healthy marriage is supposed to be by observing their parents' connection and commitment to each other.

When parenting/children are given the number 1 priority that creates many problems, and choosing a spouse based on sexual desire as top priority is the best way to keep those priorities straight.
 

Manure Spherian

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They are all great in the beginning. Once I move them in with me the down hill trend starts. Usually make it to the 4yr mark and then the relationship is on borrowed time. And the cycle starts over.
If you don’t mind me asking, what happens at the four-year mark? Like, how do things go downhill?
 

Barrister

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For a woman it should always be the following priority list:

1. Wife/lover to husband
2. Partner/friend to husband
3. Parent

Why? Because assuming you get married for life, your spouse is the single most important person and relationship in your life. More important than her parents, his parents, more important than the children.

The sexual chemistry and lover interaction between husband and wife is top priority for a reason. That's the glue that keeps you attracted.

Out of that sexual attraction & intimacy grows the partnership & friendship that gets the couple through thick & thin times.

Parenting is the 3rd priority for two very good reasons. First, being a parent should be temporary relative to being a spouse (often now however that is no longer the case.) Secondly, children need to learn what a healthy marriage is supposed to be by observing their parents' connection and commitment to each other.

When parenting/children are given the number 1 priority that creates many problems, and choosing a spouse based on sexual desire as top priority is the best way to keep those priorities straight.
Great post.

I don't think I know a single woman under the age of 40 who would agree with your list of priorities though. Almost to a T every single woman I know that I would ask would rank the children ahead of men. And to be frank, I don't necessarily think that in itself is an issue. I do think it is an issue when that becomes the sole focus for the mother/wife. And that seems to happen with great frequency.
 

The Duke

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If you don’t mind me asking, what happens at the four-year mark? Like, how do things go downhill?
Both care less about the relationship. Boredom, Familiarity, relationship takes a back seat to careers. The women never behaves as good as she did the first 2yrs. More attitude, less submission. Not as easy going.
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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You would be labelled an Incel if a woman ever heard you say this out loud, not saying it's valid, just saying that word is thrown around in a very inauthentic way, like "This guy has an opinion I don't like, he must be an incel" and most guys aren't gonna push back, I mean that's not really a hill anybody wants to die on when you can just keep your mouth shut and chameleon
 

BeExcellent

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Great post.

I don't think I know a single woman under the age of 40 who would agree with your list of priorities though. Almost to a T every single woman I know that I would ask would rank the children ahead of men. And to be frank, I don't necessarily think that in itself is an issue. I do think it is an issue when that becomes the sole focus for the mother/wife. And that seems to happen with great frequency.
Its rare, no doubt. My son is about to marry such a girl (she's 20) but they are serious throw backs to past generations in a number of ways. My son and his fiance know my views on the topic and know it originated with my own grandmother's wisdom.
 

Money & Muscle

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All of this commitment to provide for the female just to keep her long term, is it really worth it?

...

I just don't see much fairness in male/female long term relationships and marriages. I see women getting better deals than most men.
This is a lot of the point I'm at now, too... while actively being married.

I see my wife as the primary beneficiary of us being married. It certainly isn't that I'm 'losing' per se; my wife still makes my life better for the most part.

But if push came to shove, I'll work myself into an early grave to provide and I'll lay down my life to keep my wife safe... In contrast, there are many times where my wife cannot keep her own attitude in check to give me peace of mind.

While I do get a better life as a result of being married, I do not get the better end of the deal. I believe almost all men are in this position; we're ultimately very disposable/replaceable.

A particularly insightful channel I follow (H0e_Math) covers this very well in this video
 

The Duke

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This is a lot of the point I'm at now, too... while actively being married.

I see my wife as the primary beneficiary of us being married. It certainly isn't that I'm 'losing' per se; my wife still makes my life better for the most part.

But if push came to shove, I'll work myself into an early grave to provide and I'll lay down my life to keep my wife safe... In contrast, there are many times where my wife cannot keep her own attitude in check to give me peace of mind.

While I do get a better life as a result of being married, I do not get the better end of the deal. I believe almost all men are in this position; we're ultimately very disposable/replaceable.

A particularly insightful channel I follow (H0e_Math) covers this very well in this video
Appreciate your honesty.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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While I do get a better life as a result of being married, I do not get the better end of the deal. I believe almost all men are in this position; we're ultimately very disposable/replaceable.
The 'excitement chaser' often ends up permanently dissatisfied when she finds out that her happiness went out with the divorce.

That's why you have all those 'divorced women crying behind the wheel of their car' videos about how their initial happiness quickly dwindles and dries up when they hit the dating 'market' again and find that they're now considered too old with too much baggage to compete with the younger women now hitting on their ex-husbands.
 

Money & Muscle

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The 'excitement chaser' often ends up permanently dissatisfied when she finds out that her happiness went out with the divorce.

That's why you have all those 'divorced women crying behind the wheel of their car' videos about how their initial happiness quickly dwindles and dries up when they hit the dating 'market' again and find that they're now considered too old with too much baggage to compete with the younger women now hitting on their ex-husbands.
I agree with you on the broad strokes, but in the fine print I have some disagreeing nuances.

In marriage, I firmly believe that women get the better end of the deal.
In divorce, I still firmly believe that women get the better end of the deal.

A woman can go through her h0e phase, get married to a rich simp, take half his money, then leave, and LTR another rich simp while fvcking chads on the side. The simps are either so broken by p0rn that they like getting cvcked, or that they have no other options but to allow their moderately attractive woman to cvck them.

The only men who don't lose in this scenario are 1) the ones who never get married and 2) the ones attractive enough to fvck married/taken girls.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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The only men who don't lose in this scenario are 1) the ones who never get married and 2) the ones attractive enough to fvck married/taken girls.
And me, but I know I'm an exception.
 

Manure Spherian

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You would be labelled an Incel if a woman ever heard you say this out loud, not saying it's valid, just saying that word is thrown around in a very inauthentic way, like "This guy has an opinion I don't like, he must be an incel" and most guys aren't gonna push back, I mean that's not really a hill anybody wants to die on when you can just keep your mouth shut and chameleon
“You sound like an incel” is used by both men and women for men saying anything they don’t like. It’s yet another reflection of the gynocratic order and deification of women.

What’s funny and pathetic at the same time, in such an order, men don’t respect other men, because they want to get to the top of the heap for female validation, which is impossible , because “what women want” changes like weather. Specifically, women don’t know what they want, but generally they want things both ways at all times

As I said in another thread, this is likely the first era in history the world over in which the female race has men running for cover, watching their p’s and q’s, jumping through hoops, and by the balls.

Many famous and infamous men “sounded like incels.”

Here’s Sean Connery “sounding like an incel”.

 

Manure Spherian

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I agree with you on the broad strokes, but in the fine print I have some disagreeing nuances.

In marriage, I firmly believe that women get the better end of the deal.
In divorce, I still firmly believe that women get the better end of the deal.

A woman can go through her h0e phase, get married to a rich simp, take half his money, then leave, and LTR another rich simp while fvcking chads on the side. The simps are either so broken by p0rn that they like getting cvcked, or that they have no other options but to allow their moderately attractive woman to cvck them.

The only men who don't lose in this scenario are 1) the ones who never get married and 2) the ones attractive enough to fvck married/taken girls.
A quote from Sexual Utopia (which every man in this era should read) pertinent to this post and thread generally:

“But the brute economic reality of procreation is that women and children consume resources that men are called upon to supply. Babies, unlike the young of many beasts, come into the world utterly helpless. And in the late stages of pregnancy, a woman is close to helpless herself, while in the first weeks after childbirth her attention is almost wholly absorbed by her infant. Men pick up the slack. Generally speaking, a woman marries a meal ticket; a man marries trouble and expense. Men understand that. It is the principal reason they are reluctant to “commit,” to sign their futures over to women of whose characters and intentions they cannot be certain. Traditionally, men have been rewarded (e.g., with higher social status) for taking on the burden and risk of starting a family. Women, in turn, were expected to remain faithful so that a husband could be sure his labor and resources were not being used to support another man’s offspring. Sexual pleasure does not even enter into the matter.”

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with this, and I don’t think in the last sentence he means sex isn’t important considering the context of what he speaks of here and in the rest of the book he expresses the importance of it.
 

Mertz09

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Great post.

I don't think I know a single woman under the age of 40 who would agree with your list of priorities though. Almost to a T every single woman I know that I would ask would rank the children ahead of men. And to be frank, I don't necessarily think that in itself is an issue. I do think it is an issue when that becomes the sole focus for the mother/wife. And that seems to happen with great frequency.
Agreed. The same could be said going back 10-15 years ago. Maybe longer.
 

Mertz09

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This is a lot of the point I'm at now, too... while actively being married.

I see my wife as the primary beneficiary of us being married. It certainly isn't that I'm 'losing' per se; my wife still makes my life better for the most part.

But if push came to shove, I'll work myself into an early grave to provide and I'll lay down my life to keep my wife safe... In contrast, there are many times where my wife cannot keep her own attitude in check to give me peace of mind.

While I do get a better life as a result of being married, I do not get the better end of the deal. I believe almost all men are in this position; we're ultimately very disposable/replaceable.

A particularly insightful channel I follow (H0e_Math) covers this very well in this video

"
"But if push came to shove, I'll work myself into an early grave to provide and I'll lay down my life to keep my wife safe... In contrast, there are many times where my wife cannot keep her own attitude in check to give me peace of mind."

Yep. That is one reason that I am no longer married.
 

LTG71

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In my line of work, I am often an approached by females looking for commercial buildings to run a business(nail salon, clothing boutique, etc). There is always extensive remodeling(wiring, plumbing, walls, flooring, painting) that needs to be done to suit the individuals business type. It NEVER fails, this is where the female leans on the husband. Many times I've been standing right there with the husband and wife and the woman always looks towards her husband when these topics come up. You can see the stress/anxiety coming over her. And the guy is always like "just what I wanted to do, more schitt I have to get involved in".

Few of these women will actually try to handle the remodel side. Those that do get stressed out and end up turning it over to their husband.

I'm always left wondering, what does that man get out of all this? A woman that keeps her body fine, doesn't act out, and provides enthusiastic sex when he wants? lol, yeah right. I certainly don't see any of that.

All of this commitment to provide for the female just to keep her long term, is it really worth it?

As I've gotten older, I have quit fixing girlfriends' vehicles if it was anything that would require more than 2hrs of my time. If their level of cooking was equal to my level of automotive skills then I might consider.

I just don't see much fairness in male/female long term relationships and marriages. I see women getting better deals than most men.
After being married for over 30 years, I agree that women get a better deal. This is one of the flaws of the old ways, men having to bear the responsibility of taking care of his wife. While it is our place “to provide”, it also becomes a burden to have to cover for her. I’ve been the sole financial provider for over 30 years. This puts me in the position to have to sacrifice my needs and wants to ensure the family is taken care of first. Seen a lot of wives sit at home and try to start random businesses or try becoming something, not many succeeded but the one who ends up being the financier is the husband. This old way of thinking leaves the woman in a perpetual state of childhood. She is the oldest child in the house, who has minimal responsibilities. A woman once said to me, “she cooks your meals and does your laundry, what else do you want?” As if these two tasks are equal to the mountain of responsibilities I own as the husband.

This is where I welcome women getting careers and carrying their own weight. Would have been nice to have an equal financial partner in this journey. And yeah, the sex tapers off but your responsibilities remain until you’re dead.

My wife makes sure the kids have what they need, makes good meals and does constant laundry. I appreciate that support but the underlining reality is I provide the means for her to do all of it. My son is a teenager now and he jokes that dad is “Santa Claus” in that my wife is using my money to buy me gifts at Xmas.

We have the dynamic of the “royal we” in our house. Where my wife makes suggestions of things that “we” need to do, like pull the weeds in the front yard. While I’m at work and commuting 1 hr in each direction, go ahead and pull those weeds after you watch the Today show. You don’t have to wait for me. If she had skills and initiative like @Be, that would be a relief.
 
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