"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Poll: Your longest LTR, how long did it last?

Your longest LTR, how long did it last?

  • <1 year

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • <3 years

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • <5 years

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • <10 years

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • >10 years

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • never had one

    Votes: 2 5.6%

  • Total voters
    36

ThisIsSparta

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Gentlemen, Don Juans, Seducers, Blackpillers, Redpillers, whatever pillers i am interested in LTR demographics here on SS.
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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Robert28

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4 years off and on. 1 1/2 years consistent with another girl. Now I can’t seem to make it past a month no matter what I do.lol
 

"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"

When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.

Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.

Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.

The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.

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Barrister

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7 years was my longest -- and a couple of points of interest:

1. I could still be in that relationship if I didn't mind being miserable; and

2. I should have exited that relationship probably about two years earlier than I did -- but stayed due to my daughter.
 

SW15

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7 years was my longest -- and a couple of points of interest:

1. I could still be in that relationship if I didn't mind being miserable; and

2. I should have exited that relationship probably about two years earlier than I did -- but stayed due to my daughter.
This is what tends to happen in relationships that exceed 5 years. Relationships that exceed 5 years are often subpar to mediocre at best.

When people that exit 10, 15, or 20 year long relationships, they will say that they stayed far too long in those relationships. One of the reasons people stay too long in relationships is the children that they have with that relationship partner. However, there are also childless LTRs that last too long.

Freedom is awesome. You've found a way to get laid without being in a miserable relationship. The miserable relationship likely only included 1-2 times a month of sex for the last 2 years anyway.
 

Barrister

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This is what tends to happen in relationships that exceed 5 years. Relationships that exceed 5 years are often subpar to mediocre at best.

When people that exit 10, 15, or 20 year long relationships, they will say that they stayed far too long in those relationships. One of the reasons people stay too long in relationships is the children that they have with that relationship partner. However, there are also childless LTRs that last too long.

Freedom is awesome. You've found a way to get laid without being in a miserable relationship. The miserable relationship likely only included 1-2 times a month of sex for the last 2 years anyway.
Actually, sex was never a major problem with my ex wife. That was still fairly regular until about the last 4-5 months when the end was becoming very imminent. The relationship, however, had trouble for a number of years for other reasons unrelated and to which aren't worth bogging this thread down with.

I think generally speaking you are correct about the 5 year shelf-life on most relationships. The differences between two people become more and and more exacerbated as time goes on and especially after the honeymoon phase officially ends.
 

SW15

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I think generally speaking you are correct about the 5 year shelf-life on most relationships.
My idea on the 5 year shelf life of goodness for relationships has been one of my major ideological contributions to this forum.

5 years of a good relationship is a sign of a better than average frame. A weaker frame shortens the shelf life of goodness, even if the relationship exceeds 5 years. It wouldn't be unusual to see a beta male with an average frame or a weaker frame have a 7-10 year long relationship with only 3 good years. There are even long-ish relationships (like 3-4 years) where the good times of the relationship were only about 2 years.

After 5 years, most men run into problems on declining quality in their relationships. Most men also lose frame to some degree in the LTRs that exceed 5 years.

I've seen one of my friends go from a guy who had sex with many women from nightlife venues to turning into a typical beta male who checks with his wife before socializing with me. How did he go from what appeared to be an alpha with higher notch count to a typical beta? Also, I don't think his frame loss issues are uncommon in LTRs and marriages.

I've also seen other friends stay in LTRs (even childless LTRs) way beyond the duration of goodness in the relationship.
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

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MatureDJ

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It never seems to last more than a few months for me. :mad: OK, I've a few that were off & on for more than that, but only about 3 months worth if compressed down. I think it takes that long for the gal to start thinking that she doesn't want short sons. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

SW15

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It never seems to last more than a few months for me. :mad: OK, I've a few that were off & on for more than that, but only about 3 months worth if compressed down. I think it takes that long for the gal to start thinking that she doesn't want short sons. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
You're 55+ now. If you were to date women 45+ now, they won't be able to get pregnant now anyway.

When you were younger, you might have been able to screen for women that didn't want children. However, those women are much more difficult to find.

Short Hispanic or Asian women in the USA could have been good options for you back in the days when you lived in the USA.

It's a huge disadvantage to date at your height. I'm 5'10" and I've experienced interactions with women when it was clear that they thought my height was undesirable.
 

9-3enthusiast

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Was married from late 20s to about 50, so longest was more than 20yrs.
Shoulda got out years sooner but stayed together until my daughter grew up and moved out.
Before marriage, a couple of LTRs that lasted more than a year.

Since divorce, if it becomes clear it won't last, I get out straight away... A couple of them went for 3 months or so, but most I've bailed out within a few weeks.

There was a FWB which started during those strange months as we were coming in and out of the lockdowns (late summer 2020) and went on well into 2021, but I don't count that as a 'relationship', it was a convenience thing during strange times.

Current relationship is doing better, stands at about 8 months and counting....
 
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RickPound

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3 years. The last year I was checked out focusing on my career and travel. There was nothing wrong, I was just being selfish. She didn’t pull any shenanigans and actually hung in there. I let it fade because I was distracted. I actually shoulda put more effort in because she was a good one.

Monkey branched from that to a 1.5 year. She got fed up with my emotional distance and we mutually agreed to part ways. It was easy for me because I started cheating with a much younger and hotter (nutcase). That situationship lasted a year or so until I realized she was a psychopath.

1 year with another unstable hottie and now…

I’m single and spinning plates. Gotta take a breather before I commit and make another bad choice.
 

"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"

Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.

You've been "getting ready" for two years.

She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.

Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.

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kookdekoo

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You
My idea on the 5 year shelf life of goodness for relationships has been one of my major ideological contributions to this forum.

5 years of a good relationship is a sign of a better than average frame. A weaker frame shortens the shelf life of goodness, even if the relationship exceeds 5 years. It wouldn't be unusual to see a beta male with an average frame or a weaker frame have a 7-10 year long relationship with only 3 good years. There are even long-ish relationships (like 3-4 years) where the good times of the relationship were only about 2 years.

After 5 years, most men run into problems on declining quality in their relationships. Most men also lose frame to some degree in the LTRs that exceed 5 years.

I've seen one of my friends go from a guy who had sex with many women from nightlife venues to turning into a typical beta male who checks with his wife before socializing with me. How did he go from what appeared to be an alpha with higher notch count to a typical beta? Also, I don't think his frame loss issues are uncommon in LTRs and marriages.

I've also seen other friends stay in LTRs (even childless LTRs) way beyond the duration of goodness in the relationship.
You literally hit the nail on the head here ! I was in a LTR which recently ended. I always held the frame. Easy because I started with her purely f9r sex. She was eager to please , aggreeable and fun for EXACTLY five years. Over these five years , I gave her expensive gifts, exotic vacations and the best sex of her life ( as per her ! ). Even though I say so myself , I really banged her hard and good. Last six months however , for no famthomable reason , I wasn't as funny anymore, the desire to please was gone and arguments and drama started. The old me would have tried to appease and make extra effort . Luckily for me , I had found this forum and also read Rollo. I ended it instantly. Point I'm trying to make here : We hit it off fivecand the half years ago and the good lasted for EXACTLY five years !
 

IKO69

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A little more than 5 years; was engaged for a year and couple of months. Fell apart because of money (prenuptial). It was meant as a test but the mention of it pretty much doomed the relationship - the relationship survived for a few months after but it was never the same from that point on. Everyday there was an argument and things became a real drag- it was a really miserable time in my life. I have nothing bad to say as I have moved on from that period - 90% of the time the relationship was really good --- we saw eye to eye on a lot and had similar interests/were kind of the same to a degree.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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