LJBF after first date and escalation

[thinktwice]

Hi,

I would like to get a second opinion. HB 8/10, probably personal record looks wise.

Met offline. Called her after 5 days. We went on a date. Tried to kiss her after 3 hours. Kiss lasted one second, she said she could not do it. Tried again one hour later. Did not work out.

We sat on a bench when the date was over. She goes LJBF. I tell her no (thanks Rollo, you are the man!). You will figure out whether you want a second date, but there will be no LJBF.

She sends a longer text the following day saying she does not want to hurt my feelings but she cannot see herself in a second date and take care. I reply with ok. Call me if you change your mind. NC since a couple of days.

Was this the right thing to do? Any way to improve it? Never heard LJBF before. Never.

Rejection and very strong sudden come back has been a pattern for me with other girls before. I do not quite get it. Stayed positive.

 

[marmel75]

No offense but taking 3 hours to try and kiss a girl isn't escalation. The kiss attempt should have happened within 20-30 minutes as a natural progression of the escalation you had been starting from the first five minutes.

Who knows why. Maybe she wasn't attracted to you, maybe you bombed in date, maybe you didn't project confidence, etc...any number of reasons.

Bottom line is it's not worth worrying about and that you need to start escalating far sooner. Also first dates should never be 3 hours.

 

[pyros]

In my opinion you did very well.
Nothing else you can do but go out and meet a new girl.

 

[marmel75]

In my opinion you did very well.
Nothing else you can do but go out and meet a new girl.

What exactly about going on a first date that took him 3 hours to try and kiss her went well? That's 2 or 3 times longer than most entire first dates last and he hadn't even attempted anything up until that point, with no mention of any other types of escalation.

In my opinion little to nothing went well, and obviously the woman is of the same opinion.

 

[Dingo]

It's better to find out she is not into you right away... less invested.

Why ?..... Who knows.... Go out and hunt.

 

[CMNILS87]

I agree with Marmel. If you're gracing her shoulder touching her hand and cracking jokes right away, her whole body language should open up. Being cold the whole date and 3 hours later makes for an awkward kiss. You didn't build attraction. Who knows, maybe she had 50 things on her mind, maybe she thought you were weird and not sexual enough. You need to stop caring about what you think will happen and just leap of faith touch and kiss her. Be masculine.

 

[marmel75]

I actually think you did okay, and people are nitpicking.

It would probably help to provide details of what you did on your date, however.

I don't see anything OK with taking 3 hours to attempt a kiss on a first date. First of all the date should have been over far before that, second there was no escalation at all to that point which made it very awkward. By that point, he pretty much friend zoned himself, IMHO.

 

[Starting]

There's many unanswered questions here.

Did you sense any high level of interest in this women to begin with?

Did you sense it being lower or the same after the date?

Since these questions are not answered i'll go off on my personal opinion on this. It seems like you either did something during the date to put her off or she wasn't interested to begin with. I'm guessing it was something you did during the date. Maybe you weren't as confident and funny as she thought you was. There was something you did or there could of been other factors as to why she wasn't feeling you.

However, the way you handled it was very good. There's nothing you need to do but carry on with NC and live your life.

 

[marmel75]

I completely disagree.

Most of my first dates start with coffee. I do not go for a kiss at this point. Coffee lasts about 45 mins - so already I am outside of your 20 minute window for a kiss attempt.

There could be an argument to be made that you come across too thirsty.



Which is why I am asking how he spent those hours. And what purpose those hours served.

The main point is that he has the basics down. There is no need to sh*t on him.

• He went for the kiss close, and didn't get butt-hurt over the rejection. He tried again later
• He refused the LJBF talk (any variant on "no" is okay).
• He didn't get upset about the rejection over text.

That argument could be made, but over many dates I had gotten to the point where it became smooth and natural and in a lot of cases the woman kissed me first. I'm sure when I first started doing it, it did come across as thirsty. But with practice and a lot of failure you end up learning what works, what doesn't work and if you are smart you throw away the things that don't work and keep the things that do work. And as always, what works for me might not work for others.

I look aggressive, I am built aggressively(physically large and muscular), and most people expect me to be aggressive. So for me to sit back and act otherwise isn't being true to myself. When I act the way I naturally am and the way others expect me to be it comes across much more congruently.

That being said, there ARE many ways to skin a cat. And the type of woman who is attracted to me might be different than the type of woman who is attracted to you or the OP. And therefore, what would work in my case because of the type of woman I am inherently dealing with might not work with that type of woman and more over if the person is attempting to be aggressive but simply isn't naturally it's going to come off completely wrong until they learn to calibrate it to how they naturally are.

But, in my opinion, chance always favors the bold. In OP's case it might not have made any difference in the outcome, but it could have saved him a hell of a lot of time. He spent 3 hours meandering through a date that went nowhere and he could have spent 30 minutes to get the same result. If we are equating this to OLD, I used to message a woman 2-4 times on OLD before asking them out, OP messaged her for 3 weeks only to end up having the woman not be interested in meeting. Why did I move quickly? Easy. Least amount of effort to get the same result. If the chick isn't interested don't waste 3-4 hours of your time finding out, find out in 30 minutes.

Time is the most valuable resource that exists, you can never get back that time that has been wasted.

And as far as fvcking low interest women, that even goes more to my point of being sexually aggressive because you could get them to the point they are horny and want to fvck even if they aren't that interested.

 

[devilkingx2]

I'd say the OP needs to come back and give us a lot more details on how the date went and what they did before we can properly chime in on the discussion of whether or not he went for the kiss too slowly or not

aside from that i think OP did well, girl wasn't interested, nothing he could do so that's that

 

[RangerMIke]

Sometimes you just get a woman that just doesn't feel it. Nothing you can do about that. The OP handled it well, you just let them go.... don't agree to anything you don't want.

The important thing to know about women is that no matter how good you are you can not get them all.

 

[nismo-4]

Not enough info to know if he friendzoned himself. She may have been low interest from the start. I'm glad he didn't accept her LJBF offer. As long as the OP has her deleted from all platforms and isn't chasing, he'll be ok.

 

[pyros]

well, yes, three hours is too much for a first date. I usually end the date at 1.5 hours max or at some previous point in which we're having a good time.
But yeah, if he tried to kiss her TWICE and she rejected him, nothing else he can do.

 

[thinktwice]

This is a great forum. Many of your points are spot on. The date was too long. Coffee for a first date does not communicate your intentions clearly, in my opinion. The kiss in the 20-30 minutes time frame is not yet compatible with my personality or skill level. She had 50 things on her mind. That is almost what she said.

She opened me. At least that is how she put it on the date. Technically, that is incorrect. But she asked me a lot of questions when we first met. So I would guess medium to high IL. She even stated that she had never been asked for her phone number before. I don't really believe it. Told me goodbye several times, so rather interested. She stated later that she thought she might have mistyped her phone number (5 days --> I was travelling). She called after agreeing to the date for monday night and wanted to reschedule to the friday night (before). There was a very good work related reason for this, I took it as even higher IL. I saw a **** test coming, but decided to agree. Sometimes it is hard to say.

Her body language during the date was definitely off. She offered a not so welcoming handshake at the beginning which I turned into a hug. The kiss was strange. It lasted one second. So she wanted it, but stopped herself ("I cannot do it"). I would say there is something else going on. An ex, another candidate, whatever. Did the IL drop during the date? Probably. How else do you want to explain LJBF? She said she needed to trust someone before kissing him. Probably BS, but that is what she said. She framed it as coming on too strong.

I was more interested in disaster management. When you hear LJBF, it is red alert. You get dumber due to pressure. Not agreeing to it is for sure better than agreeing to it. But what else? She rejects you over text the next day. "Ok. Call me when you change your mind." These are blunt tools. There is no pressure flip, there must be a better way.

What is the theory behind this? There is fumbled game, she decides she is not feeling it --> he must be beta. Let's throw out LJBF. Beta guy does not agree and takes the rejection lightly. Does that not make her think?

 

[pyros]

It doesnt matter what she thinks.
The thing is that she doesnt want to have sex with you anytime soon, so you'd do better if you just stopped analysing this girl/situation.
You showed interest, she did not reciprocate it. That's it. It happens.

 

[Big dog]

Work on your confidence/self esteem

 

[marmel75]

When you have plenty of options these types of things happen and you simply chuckle about it and delete her number and never bother even posting it to the forums. Because it doesn't matter, you have 3 women waiting to take her place and you are already banging 3 or 4 others. All of these questions you have simply become irrelevant to you because you realize the reaction or response from any single woman doesn't matter since you can easily replace her anytime you want.

Whenever I see posts like these I automatically think the OP is optionless or nearly optionless. Because a person with options simply doesn't care about things like this. They just shrug their shoulders and chalk it up to the game and how women are, and just keep it moving.

My advice is to work towards getting to this place.

 

[inginocchiati]

This is a great forum. Many of your points are spot on. The date was too long. Coffee for a first date does not communicate your intentions clearly, in my opinion. The kiss in the 20-30 minutes time frame is not yet compatible with my personality or skill level. She had 50 things on her mind. That is almost what she said.

She opened me. At least that is how she put it on the date. Technically, that is incorrect. But she asked me a lot of questions when we first met. So I would guess medium to high IL. She even stated that she had never been asked for her phone number before. I don't really believe it. Told me goodbye several times, so rather interested. She stated later that she thought she might have mistyped her phone number (5 days --> I was travelling). She called after agreeing to the date for monday night and wanted to reschedule to the friday night (before). There was a very good work related reason for this, I took it as even higher IL. I saw a **** test coming, but decided to agree. Sometimes it is hard to say.

Her body language during the date was definitely off. She offered a not so welcoming handshake at the beginning which I turned into a hug. The kiss was strange. It lasted one second. So she wanted it, but stopped herself ("I cannot do it"). I would say there is something else going on. An ex, another candidate, whatever. Did the IL drop during the date? Probably. How else do you want to explain LJBF? She said she needed to trust someone before kissing him. Probably BS, but that is what she said. She framed it as coming on too strong.

I was more interested in disaster management. When you hear LJBF, it is red alert. You get dumber due to pressure. Not agreeing to it is for sure better than agreeing to it. But what else? She rejects you over text the next day. "Ok. Call me when you change your mind." These are blunt tools. There is no pressure flip, there must be a better way.

What is the theory behind this? There is fumbled game, she decides she is not feeling it --> he must be beta. Let's throw out LJBF. Beta guy does not agree and takes the rejection lightly. Does that not make her think?

This could have all been a test. Is she older?

I would have immediately said something along the lines of, "I don't do handshakes, only a hello kiss, otherwise this date can't happen." Give her **** for it.

She asked a lot of questions... This is a red flag, in my opinion and it all depends on what kind of questions and how you answered. There is a saying in business and it applies to dating, as well. "Never tell everything you know." If you answer every question, directly, this leaves little to be desired and will immediately kill desire she has for you.

There is no such thing as "coming on too strong". If a woman wants to **** you, she will want you to be aggressive and dominant toward her.

Maybe, "Ok. Call me when you change your mind." Wasn't the best response. That gives her the impression that you'll jump at the chance, should she give you one. I wouldn't have responded, at all. It's a waste of the energy in my thumbs.

 

[inginocchiati]

It doesnt matter what she thinks.
The thing is that she doesnt want to have sex with you anytime soon, so you'd do better if you just stopped analysing this girl/situation.
You showed interest, she did not reciprocate it. That's it. It happens.

It doesn't matter what she thinks. However, it is valuable for him to analyze the situation and get feedback from us, otherwise he may not do better next time.

 

[thinktwice]

Plating 4 good-looking plain janes will not make it hurt less to lose someone with more personality and skills (+ obviously looks). It will just keep your mind busy.

Besides, when they get hotter + better quality (intelligence, success, saner) the whole game seems to change. There is less flaking, less cancelling dates, less drama, less ghosting, less wait for sex, but there are other disadvantages. For example: see above. So basically, plain jane will not prepare you for the next special one. She will play plain janes' games, but these you already know.

I am not denying the advantages of plate spinning. But I would still be thinking about this.