Just learned that a friend will be divorcing his wife of 16 years

[joekerr31]

It seems obvious that they are not 'in love' at least. I still love my ex-wife as a person, but it would be hell to remarry her. And it all sounds like misery to me. Feeling trapped in a marriage leads to resentment of your spouse, which leads to fighting and other problems. Acting like things are ok will only make them worse.

well this might be where the differing views come in.

i woudl have figured if they weren't 'in love' anymore that the original poster would have said something like 'she'd gained all this weight and he doesnt love her anymore. he cant stand to touch her, blah blah"

thats not what i read. what i read was 'hes got a great wife, whose now fat. all these hot chics are hitting on him. hes goign to leave her so he can play the field."

im not assuming anything beyond those facts stated.

 

[Bible_Belt]

some of the best insights i've received in life on various topics have come from people who had no first hand experience

Maybe with some things, but here it is like asking a virgin for sex tips.

I value your posts a lot, and usually I am the minortity opinion myself, but here I have to say that marriage is like sex - you can't give tips on it until you have done it. But thanks for the debate, anyway.

 

[KarmaSutra]

while having gone through the experience lends a certain set of insights that are harder to possess without having been married (ie. what certain emotions feel like whiel in a marriage and going through various things)....

having not been married also provides a certain set of insights that someone who has been married may not have (ie. a more objective, less personal, perspective on the issue).

some of the best insights i've received in life on various topics have come from people who had no first hand experience, they simple had rational ideas that solved my problem.

anyway, i dont mean to be comign off as preaching. i think the reason i might be is that i'm posting lot right now (just about to log off) and because 95% of everyone here disagrees with my view. so im sticking out like a sore thumb.

This is another check mark in my book of JoeKerr. Keep posting man, I've learned a tremendous amount from you.

So you don't feel left out: :flowers:

 

[DavenJuan]

I understand what you're saying jokerr, but my gut says that even though it seems that the guy is leaving over a weight issue, the weight gain is just a symptom of a bigger, unsaid issue.

I think this is the biggest probelm with this scenerio.. its a simple weight issue that if it hasnt already, will evolve into sooo many other issues.

Right now she is okay with the sex, and everythin else, but at what point will is "negative" look on her make her feel undesirable and then in turn not feel sexy?

its a vicious downhill turn for the worse if in fact she does nothing to fix "his" problem. i guarantee that she will eventually become insecure, and then comes the mistrust, the cheating, the depression. no sex, no touching, etc etc etc.

at that point joekerr..is "playing" marriage better than all other options?

 

[joekerr31]

some of the best insights i've received in life on various topics have come from people who had no first hand experience

Maybe with some things, but here it is like asking a virgin for sex tips.

I value your posts a lot, and usually I am the minortity opinion myself, but here I have to say that marriage is like sex - you can't give tips on it until you have done it. But thanks for the debate, anyway.

i totally disagree.

marriage is simply another paradigm of human interaction and relation.

there are plenty of marriage counsellors who aren't themselves married. comparing this to asking a virgin for sex tips is off base i think.

i think its more like a car mechanic talking to a motorcycle mechanic - different areas of the same field.

 

[joekerr31]

at that point joekerr..is "playing" marriage better than all other options?

the problem is that they are playing marriage. each one of them only has one foot in the door right now. and they both need to stop.

like i said, they are probalby in a routine and bored. he suddenly gets all this attention from hot chics and figures its time to bail so he can have some fun.

but im saying he should work on his marriage instead, given weight seems to be the only issue (i mean, its a small issue compared to the crap going on in most marriages).


i dont see this situation (as its been desribed so far) as being much different than if some chic were telling us "my husband makes 100 grand. and thats nice. but suddenly i've had all these guys who make 200 grand wanting to take me out. i think its time i get a divorce."

as far as im concerned, people who bail on a marriage over sueprficial stuff like a little weight or money etc should never get married in the first place!!!!

your suppose to get married because you want to spend your life with someone, NOT because they are the best option for you at this moment in time. and then 5 years down the road if someone better comes along you bail.

thats called dating not marriage.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

this guy doesnt love his wife, or that his wife doesnt love him. or that they are miserable. etc.

It seems obvious that they are not 'in love' at least. I still love my ex-wife as a person, but it would be hell to remarry her. And it all sounds like misery to me. Feeling trapped in a marriage leads to resentment of your spouse, which leads to fighting and other problems. Acting like things are ok will only make them worse.

:yes: Yep, this is why I don't hate my ex. She's still miffed at me and it's been ten years but she's been able to survive without me. Plus her kids aren't any worse off, actually they (like my ex) gained a ton of personal growth from the marriage. Personally, I think we're all in a good spot despite the divorce.

 

[logic1]

Let me give some background info. This guy, who for all intents and purposes, had never dated anyone else, marries his childhood sweetheart, and they have 2 boys. At 16 she was quite attractive. She has always had a little bit of childish attitude, but in a way that isn't bad, if that makes any sense. In general though, her general warmth and graciousness makes her a nice woman to be around. To the best of my knowledge, she has never been the type of woman to have "headaches".

Whereas he has gradually learned to fend for himself socially, worked hard at his business, taken an interest in bettering himself like getting in good shape, etc., she has, in the typical American Woman way, let herself go to the point that she has no sexual value. He has always complained about the situation to her, but to no avail. Along the way, he has taken more and more of an interest in flirting with women, etc. He obviously has been detecting that his sexual market value is far in excess of hers.

Then a few years ago, a natural disaster happened which forced her and the kids to live out of town, while he stayed around. This seemed to give him the last bit of fortitude that he could make it on his own emotionally, as well as give the perfect reason to get out. Right before she moved back, he let his intentions be known, and he has kept his separate residence.

Our common social circle includes his and her family members, and a few friends, with only 2 of us who are bachelors. As Rollo Tomassi and many others have always said, the ostracization has been very, very strong from the females, and even strong from most of the males.

As for me, I am of the opinion that she had it coming for not doing her duty to present him with anything remotely near to an attractive woman that would satisfy his sexual appetite. For a man who takes care of himself, she is really an embarrassment to him in this regard (of course, I could say this about a lot of other man I know!)

Anyway, soon I will be seeing them for the first time in a while (evidently they will both be this party!) along with many others who I haven't seen since this issue came up. At the very least, I feel I should give him some encouragement in the path he has chosen.

This guy is in for a rude awaking!!

A wife gaining a few pounds does not cause a man to abandon his family. He got a taste of some new p***y. He is infatuated or in lust. Something totally new to him. He is not thinking with a clear head. Probally some younger women he is banging on the side. To keep the new lust and infatuation going he probally promised to leave his wife. Once he does the new women will be gone and he will be left holding his d**ck!!!

MatureDJ. Watch what comes out in the open once he divorces. He will have this hot babe on his arm for about a week and then it will be over and he will be begging for his wife to take him back once his head clears.

He is being manipulated by another women as we talk about him.

Seen it happen to many times.

 

[KarmaSutra]

This guy is in for a rude awaking!!

A wife gaining a few pounds does not cause a man to abandon his family. He got a taste of some new p***y. He is infatuated or in lust. Something totally new to him. He is not thinking with a clear head. Probally some younger women he is banging on the side. To keep the new lust and infatuation going he probally promised to leave his wife. Once he does the new women will be gone and he will be left holding his d**ck!!!

MatureDJ. Watch what comes out in the open once he divorces. He will have this hot babe on his arm for about a week and then it will be over and he will be begging for his wife to take him back once his head clears.

He is being manipulated by another women as we talk about him.

Seen it happen to many times.

While your staring into your crystal ball can you tell me tomorrow nights Lotto numbers?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Let's get down to brass tacks here,..

According to a study published in the American Law and Economics Review, women currently file slightly more than two-thirds of divorce cases in the US.[5] There is some variation among states, and the numbers have also varied over time, with about 60% of filings by women in most of the 19th century, and over 70% by women in some states just after no-fault divorce was introduced, according to the paper. Evidence is given that among college-educated couples, the divorce filing rate by women approaches 90%.

Pulled from Wikipedia

So let's all just pull our collective heads out of our asses with regards to which sex is initiating the majority of divorces in the U.S. today. How many of us here know a divorced man who initiated his divorce? Odds are precious few, why? Because even the most feeble of AFC married men still cling to that sense of masculine responsibility. We are constantly under threat of being perceived as the "dead beat dad", yet is is the majority of women initiating divorce.

So, call the guy shallow, but he's in the minority. Statistically it's women who're less concerned with "staying together for the kids" than men. I'm not trying to question women's reasonings for carrying through with divorce, and I'm not trying to bash the sex wholesale, but I am trying to shed some light on the subject here with regards to men being villified for something they only occasionally initiate.

 

[logic1]

While your staring into your crystal ball can you tell me tomorrow nights Lotto numbers?

No but I can give you the winning numbers for Nov 10

06 22 24 26 30 12PB

 

[WestCoaster]

And let's not forget the court system. I've yet to meet a divorced guy who got off even semi-decent after a divorce. If a woman cheats or even gets pregnant by another guy, she's finding herself. If the hubby does nothing, he's paying out the nose the rest of his life.

Craziest thing I heard was after a divorce a man has to pay two years alimony (in Oregon) even without kids. A gal I knew got a divorce WITHOUT kids and while she was making SIX FIGURES and her ex-hubby still had to fork it out. Of course she had no problem accepting this money while she was working as a high paid stock broker.

 

[KarmaSutra]

No but I can give you the winning numbers for Nov 10

06 22 24 26 30 12PB

Sad. Just like your last post it's too little too late and probably wrought with bullsh!t.

 

[logic1]

Sad. Just like your last post it's too little too late and probably wrought with bullsh!t.

Well, I still have a lot to learn in life.

What makes you think my opinion is BS? I'm sure there is a reason on your behalf and different opinions always help a person learn.

 

[##17]

call me crazy but what you just said was....

1) she has been a loyal wife, who is a kind person, who is fun to be around, and who gives him sex whenever he wants it even after 16 years.
2) she's not hot anymore
3) ergo he should divorce her.


dude, based on that information alone, you buddy is a total *sshole. he's a self centered piece of sh*t who is abandoning his responsibilities to his family and thinking of himself instead.

now, when a woman is ruining your life and providing your kids with a bad example, divorcing her may be the only option on the table.

but divorcing his wife whose only crime is that she got fat is beyond absurd. get her a gym membership and a personal trainer for f*ck sake. it will cost you less than her taking 50% and the costs associated with dating and f*cking new women.

who knows, maybe there is a reason why what your buddy is doing makes sense, but from what you wrote i don't see it.

i mean, based on your logic if your wife was in an car accident, house fire, had breast cancer and had a breast removed, etc. - these would all be reasons to bail on the marriage.

anyway, if she is as good a wife as you say, your friend will dump her, have fun for 5 years, then realize he messed up by leaving a woman that truly loved him.

but this only goes to show that getting married young is the wrong way to go.

I 95% agree with this. When you marry someone, it is 'for better or worse' (especially with kids), and it sounds that she is doing her share.

Here is the 5% I disagree with. A big part of keeping a marriage going is putting the effort to make your partner happy. And for a woman to keep her husband attracted to her, that means making the effort to keep up her physical self. MAKING THE EFFORT is key, IMO. It's one thing if she lost her looks and vitality to illness, accident disfigurement, even plain old aging (where you can't help it), but in this case, she just let herself go. She didn't even TRY. What I am getting at is that it's her INTENTIONS.

I still think though, that if it really was important enough to him though, her husband should have done more to entice her to go to the gym, eat right, ect. He is married to her, and so he made a commitment to do what it takes to make the relationship work.

 

[joekerr31]

RT, you make a good poitn on the divorce rate.

and you'll hear me coming down hard on women also. there are lots of women who expect their husband to make them happy. after a few years go by and he stops placing her on a pedestle they bail on the marraige.

these women should be ashmed of themselves. they treated marriage like a con. they didn't take their vows seriously and they didn't take their responsibility for making the marriage work seriously either.

but i do not, and probably never will, argue that the best course of action is to fight fire with fire. for men to start behaving like women.

i believe what men need to do is pick better women and to not allow those women to break them down over time. which does NOT mean im placing all the responsibility on men for the state of their marriage. im saying that its 50/50.

for any marriage to work you have to care about your significant other as much as you care about yourself. and they must have the same attitude.

a marriage, in my opinion, is destined to fail, as long as any party involved is approaching things from a selfish 'whats in it for me' only perspective.

its sad, because there are a lot of couples that could have wonderful marriages, but one party or the other starts to behave like a selfish child and starts to get pie in the sky ideas of what they could have if they dropped the dead weight (ie. their spouse).

the moment you start thinking like that is the moment you are now a major contributor to the failure of your marriage.

im all for divorce when two mature adults realize they want something else in life. like if one person wants to travel a lot and the other just wants to spend the money on building a better nest (ie. home, car, clothes,e tc.). or if one person is a saver and the other is a spend thrift. or if one has liberal views and the other conservative. all of these things will lead to major strife.

i believe for a marriage to work both parties must want roughly the same things out of life and share roughly the same idealogies.

but for this guy, what would constitute a woman sharing the same idealogies as him? is his marriage going to work if he finds a woman with his attitude, one who is committed to having a high value (ie. fit and attractive), but who the moment he slips below her value dumps him for a man with higher value?

and if someone is going to have this attitude, then at least refrain from having children.

i mean, my god, you should only have children with a woman who you admire and respect (note: which is different from pedastle worshipping). i mean, these lives that you create are going to have a lot of that other person in them.

id also like to throw another piont in here..... i believe that the vast amount of people STOP maturing when they get married. the reason is that personal change is hard in a marriage. your partner is often going to be a major obstacle to you changing, because stability in a marriage is often the result of maintaining the status quo (not routine, but each person remaining who they presented themselves to be at the time of marriage).

which is why its best to get married later in life when you have matured more and are pretty much who you are.

this guy kind of got stuck at 16 in terms of his maturity as it relates to women. he never had his wild 20s where he banged a bunch of hot chics etc.

now that a few hot chics are throwing themselves at him, he can't resist.

what he's going to learn is that the grass tastes the same on the other side of the fence. heck, it often tastes worse.

this whole scenario is merely the result of this guy fantasizing of the life he could have without his wife.

i think he would be better off creating a fantasy of the life he could create with his existing wife and then put the effort in to make that happen.

and you watch.... he'll leave, start banging some hotties, and will have the time of his life for six months. until those hotties start mind f*cking him and being the pain in his *ss like most women are - and this guy will NOT know how to ahndle them (since his grand total of experience has been with one chic). then at the same time, he'll hear about how his wife is dating some AFC who is being a father to his kids and stuff, and he'll go ballistic.

then he'll realize that he bailed on his family for a fantasy, for a little poontang.

at which point he'll try to get her back and the whole thing will be a mess as he spirals into lower strata of AFCdom.

its not guaranteed that will happen, but i will not be surprised if it does.

 

[dietzcoi]

One issue you are all dancing around is that this guy has ALREADY made up his mind that he is dissatisfied with his wife. He will never be able to erase that thought! Take it from me, once you decide you want to be free, there is no turning back. You will never be able to force yourself to believe your wife is wonderful once you realize she is not... fat, ugly, b1tchy, cold, whatever! Once you realize that there is another life outside the marriage matrix, you will never rest easy...never!

How do any of you think he can revoke his feelings about her? Is he Marcus Aurelius? Forget it....

He has already made up his mind about her. Now he can be miserable and waste the one life he has been given, or move on and try to save what is left.

This does NOT relieve him of responsibility to his kids...

I divorced and had some rough times but now have great relationships with my kids. They are all in college - three of them - and it costs me, but I really do think they now understand (of course, thier mother being in a mental clinic three times probably made them understand it all, finally)

I don't know the real point of this post but we, as men, need to support a man who is freeing himself of the marriage matrix for a GOOD reason... and a big fat wife who won't take action to fix herself is a good reason.

If the wife were on Oprah, divorcing a fat husband, the audience would not have any reservations about her actions...

Dietzcoi

 

[joekerr31]

I still think though, that if it really was important enough to him though, her husband should have done more to entice her to go to the gym, eat right, ect. He is married to her, and so he made a commitment to do what it takes to make the relationship work.

100% agree. intention is key. as well as effort.

my concern, and hence my view, is that what seems to have sparked this was not his wife's weight. what seems to have sparked this was him getting in to better shape (increasing his value) and hot women suddenly wanting to bang him.

based on the original post, this is as simple as he now views himself as 'too good' for her.

its supply and demand. he increased his value, hence increasing his demand in the market and he's thinking 'why should i settle for roast beef when i could be eating steak."

and thats selfish and shallow. its absolutely justified if this were a situation where he was dating, LTR, or married without kids.

but this guys takign a shotgun to the head of his family all so he can get some fresh p*ssy.

if every man (or woman) thought this way 100% of marriages would end in divorce.

but i agree with you, if someone isn't contributing to the marriage and is taking it for granted, and refuses to change that attitude, then divorce is a legit action to take.

but without more details from the original poster, that doesnt seem to be the case here.

 

[joekerr31]

One issue you are all dancing around is that this guy has ALREADY made up his mind that he is dissatisfied with his wife. He will never be able to erase that thought! Take it from me, once you decide you want to be free, there is no turning back. You will never be able to force yourself to believe your wife is wonderful once you realize she is not... fat, ugly, b1tchy, cold, whatever! Once you realize that there is another life outside the marriage matrix, you will never rest easy...never!
/QUOTE]


well the problem is that he's made up his mind based on a fantasy. what this guy needs is a good slap in the face and for someone to sit him down and make sure he understands exactly what he is doing and risking with his actions.

just because my friend really really wants to get rich and is going to sink all his money into a bad stock doesn't mean i should just sit there and go 'well, he's made up his mind." i'm still going to slap him and tell him 'dude, you are making a mistake."

after that, ive done my part as a friend. if he wants to blow his foot off, so be it.

your situation sounds totally different. you had a wife that was mentally ill.

i think a lot of people are assuming that this guys marriage must really suck for him to want a divorce. but because he has only been with this one woman, i think its entirely possible his marriage is just fine, but he's got some crazy idea in his head that a life of playboy p*ssy is just waiting for him. night after night of f*cking hot chics.

and he just can't turn his back on that for his overweight wife.

if this guy had banged 30 chics before getting married and then felt as he did, id say fine, he's got his reasons. but we are dealing with a guy who has experienced ONE woman (and a woman who has treated him well).

wait until he gets out in the real world and sure, gets to bang some hot p*ssy, but also gets his mind seriously messed with.

in my opinion this is sort of like some guy that has played war video games and now thinks he's ready for war. well, real war ain't like the video games and he'll find that out.

this is just like so many women who think once they get rid of their husband they will be living out the desperate housewives life of hot muscular guys all wanting to bang them, etc.

its one thing to get a divorce because your marriage was unhealthy. its another becuase your chasing after some fantasy life you never had.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Well, I still have a lot to learn in life.

What makes you think my opinion is BS? I'm sure there is a reason on your behalf and different opinions always help a person learn.

But you did not have an opinion you posted a premonition.

Big difference. Have an opinion of merit and you'll get a different response.