Just learned that a friend will be divorcing his wife of 16 years

[Bible_Belt]

Another problem with this discussion is that everyone seems to think that divorce is the worst option for the kids - it's not. Being forced to live with two people who hate each other and fight constantly is worse than divorce. My parents thought they were doing something noble by staying together for thirty miserable years. When I was a kid, every time they had a big fight, I would be hoping that was the last one and they would just get the stupid divorce.

If this guy silently resents his wife, the kids are going to pick up on that unhappiness, and they will never have an example of a healthy LTR after which to model their own relationships. People tend to focus on the kids, but happy kids need happy parents, divorced or not.

 

[joekerr31]

Brother, how can a non-married man claim to know this as if he's experienced it?

I've been through all of it so my replies are from experience and first hand knowledge. Divorce is as bad as you make it just as your marriage. If a guy decides he wants a divorce from his wife because she started snoring it doesn't matter! The fact is he wants a change. Is it better for him to simply accept things as they are instead of molding his future into what it CAN be? How are the kids going to be when he starts resenting everything about his marriage? It will inadvertantly bleed into every relationship he has.

Best that he realize it and move on with his life than sit idle and stare at it from the rear.

hey, that is fine. if you are getting a divorce because the marriage just doesnt work for you anymore. if you arent in love with your wife. if you dont ever see yourself being in love wiht her again. if you are miserable, etc. then by all means get a divorce.

moreover, id whole heartedly endorse that action. like ive said, i dont believe in staying in a marriage if it makes you miserable.

but none of those reasons were posted. she gained weight and he wants out.

its utterly absurd.

you guys are perhaps projecting issues on to the marriage that aren't there (or that we dont know about yet).

and let me make one other thing clear. im not saying he has no right to do this. he can do whatever he wants.

i am however saying that i think this guy is makign a mistake. i think he has a big ego right now due to female attention he is getting outside his marriage, and he's going to shoot his foot off because of his ego.

 

[joekerr31]

Another problem with this discussion is that everyone seems to think that divorce is the worst option for the kids - it's not. Being forced to live with two people who hate each other and fight constantly is worse than divorce. My parents thought they were doing something noble by staying together for thirty miserable years.

and once again, if these two peopel are miserable with each other, then a divorce would be fine.

but from my reading of the situation no one is miserable. he is just in better shape and is getting attention from chics hotter than his wife. since she won't lose the weight and be a hot chic for him, hes goign to leave her so that he can bang those other hot chics.

like you, my parents fought for 30 years also. im a HUGE proponent of divorce if the only other choice is living a miserable life.

but thats not the case here (at least from what i've read). perhaps i've missed something that others have picked up on.

 

[KarmaSutra]

But Karma, how can any of us know what the guy is going through based upon a simple post? Really, we don't know much.

Brother, I was asking brother JoeKerr how he can speak without any firsthand knowledge or experience. He's sort of clarified his point so I'll leave it as it is.

About the guy in question though, if he's a miserable pr1ck for any reason and wants out of his marriage he is not obligated to his wife, his kids, God or country to stay miserable. He can do what he wants when he wants to do it, though the repercussions may not be understood or appreciated until well after he made his decision. But it will be HIS decision and his life lesson to internalize.

 

[Mr.Positive]

you guys are perhaps projecting issues on to the marriage that aren't there (or that we dont know about yet).

and let me make one other thing clear. im not saying he has no right to do this. he can do whatever he wants.

i am however saying that i think this guy is makign a mistake. i think he has a big ego right now due to female attention he is getting outside his marriage, and he's going to shoot his foot off because of his ego.

Exactly, and furthermore, if there's one thing that I've learned from life as a non-married guy..

while I don't have many regrets in life, but the one thing that I know about myself, is that I would regret not trying. Not giving something a chance to get better.

This guy needs to be honest with himself, and what he wants out of life. He needs to communicate this with his wife, and then lead. Step up to the plate and lead.

 

[Nighthawk]

I agree with Joekerr that a man should stick around for his kids, especially if she's not making his life miserable (apart from larding up).

One of the reasons I haven't had kids, and possibly never will, is that I'm not sure I'm man enough to shoulder that responsibility.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Brother, I was asking brother JoeKerr how he can speak without any firsthand knowledge or experience. He's sort of clarified his point so I'll leave it as it is.

Fair enough Karma. I think it is important though, for us never-been-married guys to continue to have opinions on topics like this even if we don't have first-hand experience.

I would rather work on gaining this knowledge so I DON'T face this in the future.

 

[joekerr31]

About the guy in question though, if he's a miserable pr1ck for any reason and wants out of his marriage he is not obligated to his wife, his kids, God or country to stay miserable. He can do what he wants when he wants to do it, though the repercussions may not be understood or appreciated until well after he made his decision. But it will be HIS decision and his life lesson to internalize.

yep, it is his life. and if he were my friend i would sit him down and tell him that dumping his wife cuz she gained 30 pounds and because now he can get hotter chics than he could before is nuts.

that he needs to reign in his desire to sow his wild oats, address his issues with his wife about their marriage being too routine / boring and her weight gain, and stay the course in terms of his responsibilities as a father and husband and man.

i would not give him this advice because im defending her. id give it to him becuase i believe when he looked back on things he would realize that letting his ego and kawk make his decisions for him was the wrong way to go in terms of maintaining his own sense of self respect.

but obviously this view is in the minority now a days in society, which is why our divorce rates are through the roof - everyone bails rather than put a little work in to fix things up and get past an obstacle.

like i say, get divorced if you are miserable, have tried to fix things, and they are beyond repair.

getting divorced cuz your value in the market went up and you can get hotter chics than the one you are married to is lame.

 

[joekerr31]

I agree with Joekerr that a man should stick around for his kids, especially if she's not making his life miserable (apart from larding up).

One of the reasons I haven't had kids, and possibly never will, is that I'm not sure I'm man enough to shoulder that responsibility.

i think this is part of the crux - repsonsibility.

a lot of people here want to say 'the only responsibility he has is to what he wants. thats that.'

which is very in keeping with the times we live in. soceity is all about individuality as a virtue now a days.

but when it comes to marriage i take a different perspective. i believe you are making a serious commitment, before god (or the state), and you are basically telling the other person 'i've got your back for life.'

THAT is what marriage is about 'ive got your back for life.'

and i dont believe people should be bailing on their marriage cuz their SO gained 30 pounds. its utterly ridiculous.

and yet, it seems to be the norm and make total sense to most peopel (not just here, but in the real world as well).

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

but RT that is NOT the case here. unless i've been a complete idiot and missed something.

from my understanding this guy gets laid whenever he wants. moreover, unless she put on 150 pounds, odds are that his attraction to her has diminished but not vanished. ...

I understand what you're saying jokerr, but my gut says that even though it seems that the guy is leaving over a weight issue, the weight gain is just a symptom of a bigger, unsaid issue.

 

[KarmaSutra]

One of the reasons I haven't had kids, and possibly never will, is that I'm not sure I'm man enough to shoulder that responsibility.

This is true man talk. When a man knows and admits his limitations is when he matures.

 

[joekerr31]

Fair enough Karma. I think it is important though, for us never-been-married guys to continue to have opinions on topics like this even if we don't have first-hand experience.

I would rather work on gaining this knowledge so I DON'T face this in the future.

ohhhh dont buy into that first hand knowledge crap.

we all understand marriage. we all had parents. we all had friends with parents. we all have friends who are married. we've all been in LTRs, etc.

the nature of being married is about the least mysterious thing in the world today!

this first-hand stuff is just a blunt tactic to disqualify what anyone else has to say.

i mean, if first hand experience were the end all and be all, then everyone who had ever been married would all have the same views. and yet they dont.

 

[Bible_Belt]

And then what? Live some sort of act for the sake of the kids? Do you really think that the kids will not pick up on Mommy and Daddy not loving each other any more? Do you really think that this is the best example to set for them - that relationships are misery to be tolerated for the sake of the happiness of others? That marriage is more about suffering than love? When those two boys get in a bad LTR, they are not going to know how to end it and walk away, because their father set the example that you just suck it up, suffer, and stay with the one you (used to) love. That's what happened to me

 

[KarmaSutra]

Fair enough Karma. I think it is important though, for us never-been-married guys to continue to have opinions on topics like this even if we don't have first-hand experience.

I would rather work on gaining this knowledge so I DON'T face this in the future.

It's important for us men to have an opinion in every aspect of our and our brothers lives.

But when it becomes preaching is when the preacher comes under fire.

 

[joekerr31]

And then what? Live some sort of act for the sake of the kids? Do you really think that the kids will not pick up on Mommy and Daddy not loving each other any more? Do you really think that this is the best example to set for them - that relationships are misery to be tolerated for the sake of the happiness of others? That marriage is more about suffering than love? When those two boys get in a bad LTR, they are not going to know how to end it and walk away, because their father set the example that you just suck it up, suffer, and stay with the one you (used to) love. That's what happened to me

but no one has said this guy doesnt love his wife, or that his wife doesnt love him. or that they are miserable. etc.

all we know is that he's getting more attention from hot chics and now doesnt want to stay with his wife because she gained some weight and he finds that embarrasing.

 

[KarmaSutra]

ohhhh dont buy into that first hand knowledge crap.

we all understand marriage. we all had parents. we all had friends with parents. we all have friends who are married. we've all been in LTRs, etc.

the nature of being married is about the least mysterious thing in the world today!

this first-hand stuff is just a blunt tactic to disqualify what anyone else has to say.

i mean, if first hand experience were the end all and be all, then everyone who had ever been married would all have the same views. and yet they dont.

If you're having a discussion of what's better jelly filled or creme filled donuts then any Joe-schmo can have an opinion and it doesn't matter. But when it impacts a man's life and his future, such as being married, first hand knowledge is absolutely critical and is the one tool he'll be able to rely on when he reflects on history.

And no, you can't "understand" marriage while watching your parents or buddies from the sideline just as you can't look at the playbook if you're sitting on the bench.

 

[Bible_Belt]

this guy doesnt love his wife, or that his wife doesnt love him. or that they are miserable. etc.

It seems obvious that they are not 'in love' at least. I still love my ex-wife as a person, but it would be hell to remarry her. And it all sounds like misery to me. Feeling trapped in a marriage leads to resentment of your spouse, which leads to fighting and other problems. Acting like things are ok will only make them worse.

 

[KarmaSutra]

This is good dialogue.

Hope it stays this way before the haters show up.

 

[KarmaSutra]

this guy doesnt love his wife, or that his wife doesnt love him. or that they are miserable. etc.

It seems obvious that they are not 'in love' at least. I still love my ex-wife as a person, but it would be hell to remarry her. And it all sounds like misery to me. Feeling trapped in a marriage leads to resentment of your spouse, which leads to fighting and other problems. Acting like things are ok will only make them worse.

DING DING DING DING! Bible Belt wins these: :flowers:

 

[joekerr31]

If you're having a discussion of what's better jelly filled or creme filled donuts then any Joe-schmo can have an opinion and it doesn't matter. But when it impacts a man's life and his future, such as being married, first hand knowledge is absolutely critical and is the one tool he'll be able to rely on when he reflects on history.

And no, you can't "understand" marriage while watching your parents or buddies from the sideline just as you can't look at the playbook if you're sitting on the bench.

while having gone through the experience lends a certain set of insights that are harder to possess without having been married (ie. what certain emotions feel like whiel in a marriage and going through various things)....

having not been married also provides a certain set of insights that someone who has been married may not have (ie. a more objective, less personal, perspective on the issue).

some of the best insights i've received in life on various topics have come from people who had no first hand experience, they simple had rational ideas that solved my problem.

anyway, i dont mean to be comign off as preaching. i think the reason i might be is that i'm posting lot right now (just about to log off) and because 95% of everyone here disagrees with my view. so im sticking out like a sore thumb.