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It's a Trap!

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davidcarr

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So, I fell into a trap which I could see clearly, but for obvious reasons, I fell right into it.

A group of us were hanging out a couple of weeks ago. This was during a popular happy hour. None of us in this group are close friends, but we met through mutual co-workers and have been hanging out a lot together recently. One of the women in our group mentioned an upcoming event, a folk singer who was in town that she heard great things about.

So, one of the other gals asks 3 guys (including myself) if we want to go. There are several women there, but she doesn't invite any of them. I say sure, why not, it's practically free (just $10). This was a huge red flag, 1 gal 3 guys? Obviously a cluster**** but since she asked me could I really say no? It probably embarrasses her and she won't want to hang out with me again. Might as well go and see what happens. I don't know this girl very well, we've chatted a few times briefly but never at length. I don't know the other two guys very well either, but again, chatted with them briefly a few times. I don't know if any of them are close friends. I suspect not but don't know since our conversations tend to be brief and superficial and most of us are new in town.

I show up at the event right on time. One of the other guys is there, and then the girl shows up with the third guy: he had offered her a ride. Whatever. The artist isn't bad at all, I was surprised actually. She is a really beautiful gal with a great voice. We "know" lots of people there, it's very informal and I really enjoyed it.

We all head to a nearby bar afterwards. This is when things start to go awry. One of the guys is badmouthing me big time. He is being extremely loud and obnoxious about it. I call him out on it, and he denies everything, saying I'm taking things too personally. I persist and say his comments are insulting and stupid. He eventually backs down and apologizes in a very insincere, sarcastic way. The girl of course is turned off by all of this, and she asks for a ride home.

Here's the deal. The guy giving her rides (apparently he chaffeurs her wherever she wants to go) is not very good looking. Average height, fat, strangely inept socially and highly insecure. His MO is to puff himself up and make himself look important by offering people (especially women) free rides and by belittling others who threaten him for whatever reason. Almost all of us are new in town and so we are far more tolerant than we would otherwise be since we are looking to create a new social circle.

I'm becoming highly suspicious of the woman as well now however. She badmouths her exes, insulting them repeatedly. She also insulted and taunted the fat guy behind his back to me when we were alone, even though she accepts rides from him. Also, it's as clear as day that she set up this event with 3 guys as a sort of 'contest' and I feel like a sucker for falling for it.

What's strange is that she's very flirtatious with the guy giving her rides but when he's not around, she says to me that she's scared of him and that he's really creepy. So this woman is starting to strike me as quite bizarre. Actually, what triggered him is that she began taunting him about how creepy and scary he is in front of of everyone at the bar. At that point, he became especially snide and sarcastic towards me, feeling snubbed.

When I defended myself this girl got upset. She got huffy and said she wanted to leave, accepting a ride from the fat guy. After she accepted the ride, the guy asked her out for a date right on the spot while they're walking out and she yelled "no!"

All of this was super strange, but it could have been easily prevented by turning down a 3 on 1 "date." I don't even know how to process all of this, it was so strange This is a rant obviously, but I'm obviously going to have to find a new group of people to hang out with.
 
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davidcarr

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Actually, 2 women in the group invited me to the event. The first woman was a bit vague: "I'm going, you should come."

The second woman was more assertive. She went ahead and bought the tickets in addition to inviting me out. That's what sealed the deal.
 

Spaz

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Once u r in a woman's frame, u r merely the passenger and not the driver.

She drives the narratives and you'll be bending ur frame the whole night to accommodate/compromise.

It never works out well. In the end you lose value, once that happens u hv lost ur attractiveness.
 

marmel75

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Why are you worried about embarrssing her by not going? Thats a chump move right off the bat. Women know how to pick orbiters...they have a 6th sense about it.
 

3agle 3yes

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Why are you worried about embarrssing her by not going? Thats a chump move right off the bat...
Yeah I was going to say this. Also this may come as a surprise, but if you didn't like the way things were going you could have left at anytime.
 

marvinlfloresq

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So, I fell into a trap which I could see clearly, but for obvious reasons, I fell right into it.

A group of us were hanging out a couple of weeks ago. This was during a popular happy hour. None of us in this group are close friends, but we met through mutual co-workers and have been hanging out a lot together recently. One of the women in our group mentioned an upcoming event, a folk singer who was in town that she heard great things about.

So, one of the other gals asks 3 guys (including myself) if we want to go. There are several women there, but she doesn't invite any of them. I say sure, why not, it's practically free (just $10). This was a huge red flag, 1 gal 3 guys? Obviously a cluster**** but since she asked me could I really say no? It probably embarrasses her and she won't want to hang out with me again. Might as well go and see what happens. I don't know this girl very well, we've chatted a few times briefly but never at length. I don't know the other two guys very well either, but again, chatted with them briefly a few times. I don't know if any of them are close friends. I suspect not but don't know since our conversations tend to be brief and superficial and most of us are new in town.

I show up at the event right on time. One of the other guys is there, and then the girl shows up with the third guy: he had offered her a ride. Whatever. The artist isn't bad at all, I was surprised actually. She is a really beautiful gal with a great voice. We "know" lots of people there, it's very informal and I really enjoyed it.

We all head to a nearby bar afterwards. This is when things start to go awry. One of the guys is badmouthing me big time. He is being extremely loud and obnoxious about it. I call him out on it, and he denies everything, saying I'm taking things too personally. I persist and say his comments are insulting and stupid. He eventually backs down and apologizes in a very insincere, sarcastic way. The girl of course is turned off by all of this, and she asks for a ride home.

Here's the deal. The guy giving her rides (apparently he chaffeurs her wherever she wants to go) is not very good looking. Average height, fat, strangely inept socially and highly insecure. His MO is to puff himself up and make himself look important by offering people (especially women) free rides and by belittling others who threaten him for whatever reason. Almost all of us are new in town and so we are far more tolerant than we would otherwise be since we are looking to create a new social circle.

I'm becoming highly suspicious of the woman as well now however. She badmouths her exes, insulting them repeatedly. She also insulted and taunted the fat guy behind his back to me when we were alone, even though she accepts rides from him. Also, it's as clear as day that she set up this event with 3 guys as a sort of 'contest' and I feel like a sucker for falling for it.

What's strange is that she's very flirtatious with the guy giving her rides but when he's not around, she says to me that she's scared of him and that he's really creepy. So this woman is starting to strike me as quite bizarre. Actually, what triggered him is that she began taunting him about how creepy and scary he is in front of of everyone at the bar. At that point, he became especially snide and sarcastic towards me, feeling snubbed.

When I defended myself this girl got upset. She got huffy and said she wanted to leave, accepting a ride from the fat guy. After she accepted the ride, the guy asked her out for a date right on the spot while they're walking out and she yelled "no!"

All of this was super strange, but it could have been easily prevented by turning down a 3 on 1 "date." I don't even know how to process all of this, it was so strange This is a rant obviously, but I'm obviously going to have to find a new group of people to hang out with.
Its a trap?

No man. Women always have guys (orbiters)
Around, you being one yourself. Nothing strange, this is common behavior from a attractive spoil woman.

(I bet she did not spend 1 dime that night)

You did good, you stood up for yourself & even went to a concert.

Some pointers: when you are with people, never take things personal, just be sarcastic back or joke about it. You guys turned her off, you are men. Let him be an jerk, you should off laugh at his rudeness & "isolate" her, get it? She was "observing" you. How do you behave when other men are around. Do you lose confidence? Do you get angry? Are you the guy Men Pick on? Are you the Alpha, leader of the pack?

Second, that guy, (dont call people fat) driver is an AFC who is Friendzoned. See how she bad mouth him? *she will badmouth you too at some point.

Next time, go out with her 1 on 1. At least you saw a music performance. She's a needy woman I can tell you that now. Just have fun, see if you can have a casual fling with her. Enjoy life
 
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davidcarr

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I actually feel better after ranting about it. I'm sure I got worked up over no big deal.

What upsets me is that there were lots of women checking me out and a few even approached me but I tried to be "loyal" to a female friend. Next time, no dice.

I know she's friendzoned these guys but she didn't have to be so brutal about it. She lit his ass up and humiliated him and he still tried to ask her out. I won't even repeat what she said about him but it was pretty bad. I wasn't shocked but it was pretty close. One second she's being flirtatious with him, then she flips on a dime and trashes him in public.

I didn't spend any money on her at all, the driver guy did though.
 

marmel75

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I actually feel better after ranting about it. I'm sure I got worked up over no big deal.

What upsets me is that there were lots of women checking me out and a few even approached me but I tried to be "loyal" to a female friend. Next time, no dice.

I know she's friendzoned these guys but she didn't have to be so brutal about it. She lit his ass up and humiliated him and he still tried to ask her out. I won't even repeat what she said about him but it was pretty bad. I wasn't shocked but it was pretty close. One second she's being flirtatious with him, then she flips on a dime and trashes him in public.

I didn't spend any money on her at all, the driver guy did though.
Loyal for what?? Stop thinking you owe a random woman you aren't dating ANYTHING
 

davidcarr

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Yup I agree. This girl had me fooled. I've run into so many thots I thought it was impossible to meet a 'nice traditional' girl. I thought she might be it. NOPE.

It was amazing how quickly she flipped from 'nice polite girl' to trashing the driver guy. The guy was just going on and on trying to sell himself to her: he's a gentleman, he's a leader of the pack, actually saying those things and then she completely degrades him.

I didn't know her very well, but I was very surprised that she was so different from my initial impressions.

Looks wise, I'd say she's between a 7 and 8. Attractive yes, but I certainly saw plenty of single women who were more attractive and I ignored all of 'em! Even the ones who were ogling me. Not good. In retrospect, it's hard to believe I got so invested in a garden variety 7.5 girl.
 

davidcarr

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Another weird thing is, I told her straight after she bought tickets that she had a chance to meet some cool hipster guys there and that I'd be picking up hot girls. She became very angry at this idea. So, she got upset that I would be picking up women even though we're just friends, yet she reserves the right to play the field with three guys.

That's "female logic" right there for you guys.
 

KingofPuss

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Another weird thing is, I told her straight after she bought tickets that she had a chance to meet some cool hipster guys there and that I'd be picking up hot girls. She became very angry at this idea. So, she got upset that I would be picking up women even though we're just friends, yet she reserves the right to play the field with three guys.

That's "female logic" right there for you guys.
Dude your logic is flawed. She's sh*t testing you. The way you acted "loyal" means she already has her claws sunk in. You are friendzoned and she's trying to keep you as her own to spoil her and make you think you have a chance, but when an opportunity may arise, she will cut you off and turn you down.

This woman sounds insane. I wouldn't hang out with her again. Plus the conversations sound lame as hell. Find new people to hang out with, I'm sure you can make some friends.
 

Chi Town

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Nothing strange or insane about this women, this is normal female behavior unfortunately.

I'm sure she sees you as a beta orbiter like the other 2 guys.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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Obviously a cluster**** but since she asked me could I really say no?
One of the most basic skills as a human is to say no when you want to say no. If you can't do this, you won't be of much value to ANYBODY unless they need somebody to manipulate. Not being able to say no telegraphs the WEAKEST frame you can possible telegraph.

You can either say no directly, or pretend you are busy, plenty of ways to do it.

I'd focus on this very basic human skill before you start worrying about every single interaction.

A good start is this:

When I Say No I Feel Guilty

 

marvinlfloresq

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One of the most basic skills as a human is to say no when you want to say no. If you can't do this, you won't be of much value to ANYBODY unless they need somebody to manipulate. Not being able to say no telegraphs the WEAKEST frame you can possible telegraph.

You can either say no directly, or pretend you are busy, plenty of ways to do it.

I'd focus on this very basic human skill before you start worrying about every single interaction.

A good start is this:

When I Say No I Feel Guilty

Wow, I didnt pick up on this. He was uncomfortable saying no to her, while she can swindle the other fellas as she sees fit. She's good at her game.
 

marvinlfloresq

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I actually feel better after ranting about it. I'm sure I got worked up over no big deal.

What upsets me is that there were lots of women checking me out and a few even approached me but I tried to be "loyal" to a female friend. Next time, no dice.

I know she's friendzoned these guys but she didn't have to be so brutal about it. She lit his ass up and humiliated him and he still tried to ask her out. I won't even repeat what she said about him but it was pretty bad. I wasn't shocked but it was pretty close. One second she's being flirtatious with him, then she flips on a dime and trashes him in public.

I didn't spend any money on her at all, the driver guy did though.
That's terrible. I would not hang with her after that. She was "Demonstrating" her power; She is the center of her universe;

Good, now you know what she is. Don't get attached! I never in my life seen a woman act like this thank goodness, I seen drama but not at this level-

This type of woman tests men more often; she needs to be told no or she'll walk all over Men. Frajile;

Also, she brought 3 guys & you are staying loyal? She's not your gf. You should off excused yourself & got some numbers or something.
Op, careful with this woman:
Danger Will Robinson,
Eject Eject Eject
 
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davidcarr

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Whoa! Some of you guys are way too cynical! That's my job.:D

A little bit of balance.

One, she approached me first at a party, I did not approach her. Actually she vag blocked another girl and pissed her off. This is a very common scenario for me, girls competing over me.

Two, I did not even pay for the show, I still owe her $10.

Three, she invited me out again to another show in a couple of weeks. I told her to pay for my ticket and I would go and she said she would ask the promoter.

Four, I have not paid for anything: not for the ticket, not her drinks, food, nothing.

Five, this was a great scouting mission. We went to a couple of great bars and I saw plenty of hot women out. Now I know more about the scene, and where to meet hot girls.

Six, lots of hot women showed interest all night long. Which is normal for me.

Seven, one of the guys has friendzoned himself, and the other guy is fat and ugly. It's obvious she has no interest in them and is only using them for personal favors and to inflate her ego.

I was hoping to write a rant to get a few things off my chest but the cynicism of some of you is astronomical. You can't get laid with that type of negativity. It's much better to try and fail than not to try at all, which seems to be the motto for some of you: that is, 'don't make any effort! women are evil! stay away! far away! Aaaa!

It's not that scary guys. The only way to learn anything is to keep making an effort and learn and ultimately succeed. Not every single time, but some of the time. I have met male and female celebrities and these guys and gals are rejected as well. Everyone faces rejection, humiliation and hurt. The key is keep improving, not get ground down into "all women are evil" negativity.
 

davidcarr

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That's terrible. I would not hang with her after that. She was "Demonstrating" her power; She is the center of her universe;

Good, now you know what she is. Don't get attached! I never in my life seen a woman act like this thank goodness, I seen drama but not at this level-

This type of woman tests men more often; she needs to be told no or she'll walk all over Men. Frajile;

Also, she brought 3 guys & you are staying loyal? She's not your gf. You should off excused yourself & got some numbers or something.
Op, careful with this woman:
Danger Will Robinson,
Eject Eject Eject
I won't repeat what she said to me about him, both behind his back and to his face. But it was f'ing nasty.

She was basically lacing into him like a mean, snotty sorority girl after a bum asked her for spare change. Amazingly, after she completely humiliated and emasculated him, he asked her out on a date! It was crazy! It may not have been the very worst I've ever seen a woman humiliate a man, but it was up there.

Look, I've told you guys not to be cynical and not to believe all women are evil, but if this is normal, y'all are in ****ing trouble. Fortunately I have basically endless options but for the run of the mill guy, dating could be a serious problem.

To be honest, I've actually seen multiple exchanges like this just in the past year alone. Some guy kissing a girl's ass and the girl just totally eviscerates and destroys him publicly. It's not rare.

I've seen a little bit of this side of her before, but nowhere near on this level. For instance, I've lit her up a few times with some jokes, and so I expect a little bit of give and take. But she was totally sadistic towards him and he took it and begged for more.
 

marmel75

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Yup I agree. This girl had me fooled. I've run into so many thots I thought it was impossible to meet a 'nice traditional' girl. I thought she might be it. NOPE.

It was amazing how quickly she flipped from 'nice polite girl' to trashing the driver guy. The guy was just going on and on trying to sell himself to her: he's a gentleman, he's a leader of the pack, actually saying those things and then she completely degrades him.

I didn't know her very well, but I was very surprised that she was so different from my initial impressions.

Looks wise, I'd say she's between a 7 and 8. Attractive yes, but I certainly saw plenty of single women who were more attractive and I ignored all of 'em! Even the ones who were ogling me. Not good. In retrospect, it's hard to believe I got so invested in a garden variety 7.5 girl.
Yeah because when you attempt to sell yourself to a woman in that manner it means you are saying she is better than you and baaically putting her on a pedestal.

Its a weak move typically done by nice guys that makes a girls pvssy dry up quicker than you can blink.
 
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