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Is there a way to be persistent without being creepy and without going in their friend zone?

Sebastian0001

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Girls who are willing to lose you, should.

There's a difference between being obsessive and playing it cool.

When options are abundant, playing it cool comes naturally. Like me right now, I have 6-7 girls on my rotation I don't even feel like responding to.

I have hickeys from a new girl every week, sometimes they overlap.

I know that often I go through dry spells that last a few months even. I'm no super chad and I probably act desperate subconsciously that time.

The real question is how to play it cool when I have no options (which happens often) in sharp contrast to my current situation.

I say use your time to:

- Hit the gym harder
- Clean up the diet more
- Hit up guy friends to go to cool trips/places
- Get a promotion/side hustle
- Try OLD
- Try social media
- Just go upto any girl you see anywhere and ask for the directions ----> progress to "oh thanks, do you come here often?" --->end with "give me your number"
- Go on solo trips

If you are focused on this, you'll never need to persist much if and when you meet a girl you want to hang out with.
what is the success rate on the "Ask for directions" method? Wouldn't you need a little bit of flirting in between the "oh thanks do you com here often?" and the "give me your number"? Or do u just go straight to it?
 

darksprezzatura

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what is the success rate on the "Ask for directions" method? Wouldn't you need a little bit of flirting in between the "oh thanks do you com here often?" and the "give me your number"? Or do u just go straight to it?
Words don't really matter.

You could open with anything.

A girl immediately sizes you up as a smash or pass.

Obviously, during cold approaches, girls don't know a lot of things about you that might turn them on later if she isn't attracted to you already.

But our time is limited.

My point is use the magic words, "give me your number" if she doesn't comply she isn't interested and you shouldn't waste your time.
 

characternote

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I just don’t think “persistence” works with chicks. Generally, things either happen fairly quickly or not at all.
You do read some outrageous claims on forums and reddit and stuff of people claiming to be able to jedi mind-trick their way into ANY girls pants from a cold approach using their compliance ladder theory or their NLP or whatever, but I pretty much agree. You really can't negotiate attraction. I've never seen a single PUA coach with infields achieve what random people on the internet claim to be able to do lol.

The game is fairly simple and we're all basically at the same level. We've all read the material and it's not compliacted. The difference in results is mainly determined by other factors
 
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sangheilios

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@Sebastian0001 I haven't read through all of the posts on here but I have some personal experiences that may help you.

A few years back I had approached several different women that I had seen at the gym I had gone to, I'm no longer there btw. Anyway, a lot of these women were making eye contact with me and I decided to approach. One in particular rejected me by saying she had a bf but continued to go OUT of her way to engage with me, flirt, etc. This had gone on for a couple months and I decided to try again and naturally I got rejected. This woman was simply an attention ***** that was using me for validation. If she had full blown rejected me, I never would have been a potential source of emotional validation from her. However, because she wasn't interested, she isn't going to go out with me obviously. Now, why she was or was not interested in me is irrelevant, there could have been a million different things going on and trying to decipher them would have been a complete waste of time.

From my experience, if a woman ever says no or refuses to spend time with you one on one, like you would on a date or being alone at home, she isn't interested. Often times woman do stuff like this for emotional validation, attention, etc. Getting attention from men makes them feel good and I'm sure can be quite addicting to those women who have some issues going on within themselves. It also may simply be easier for a woman to reject you but be "nice" to you by continuing to be friendly, engage with you, etc. This is a method of conflict avoidance; most people are genuinely very uncomfortable with the idea of potential conflict and behave in a craven manner in order to avoid it. I would only apply this in situations where they need to be nice to you, say a coworker or a receptionist at the gym you frequent, etc. However, I'd mostly consider this emotional immaturity, most women have enough sense to not lead men on that they aren't interested in lol.
 

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CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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Your applying old order thinking, we don't court women anymore, now women court us, but they want to believe they are being courted but want to feel on your unavailability in the process.

The thing is, we see a guy with a woman and immediately wonder what he's doing for her time, but his time really isn't worth that much to her outside of public appearance, most of the time.

Most women that I know make terrible choices in life in general because almost everyone in their life is going to excuse her except in the most extreme of outcomes, the modern woman is empowered to be dysfunctional, if you are a part of the dysfunction, that is ultimately where her feelings are and thus the genuine intimacy, however that is something that is dispelled quickly when it interfaces with public appearance.

Point blank, if you are looking for a functional woman, that functionality does not start with her, but her social circle. You are who you hang out with, as KS says, Single Women Keep Women Single... Single Women who hang around a married social circle will inevitably get married, again the functionality of it does not interface with her own life, but her compatibility to the social circle.

The only way to chase a woman today is to hang out with who she hangs out with and in a genuine way, you can't lurk.

I think this might be a bit confusing for some, but it's the best way I can articulate it
 

devilkingx2

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Every once in a while there is an amazing woman that is just way above the rest and has it all (i.e. Jessica Alba types that are not famous) - so let's say she doesn't reject you but she also doesn't allow anything to happen. You obviously refuse to be in any sort of friend-zone with any woman regardless of how amazing she is and you also obviously do not do anything creepy.

Is there a way to be persistent and try several times from a far without entering a friend zone (don't listen to her problems, don't be shoulder to cry on, don't be always available, etc.) and without being creepy but still putting yourself in a situation where you can have a chance? This is not just about sex but a women with whom you would want an actual relationship.
I'm going to break the mold and say you can be persistent but the when and the why are the key questions.

When:
1. if she barely knows you, keep talking to her if you can and ask again for a date/phone number later on.
2. If she shows some attraction or interest, not enough for a date or sex but you think there's potential to build on, keep gaming her.

In any case I would say to cut your losses if you've been talking to a girl for a month and you're not close to getting somewhere.

Why:
the two major times that persistence didn't turn out to be a waste of time for me were with girls who seemed interested despite not wanting to go on a date/have sex with me.

One of them was hanging out with me all the time after putting me in the friend zone immediately, then two months later wanted to date me shortly after she become single.

The other one hasn't gone anywhere so far but if she is to be believed she wants to go out with me but is too busy with law school during the semester. So I'm waiting until December when she said she'd be more free, in the mean time she texts me everyday. so if I actually date and bang her that would be two major times persistence worked out.
 

Grounded eagle

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My point is use the magic words, "give me your number" if she doesn't comply she isn't interested and you shouldn't waste your time.
Getting a number doesn’t mean as much as it used to.She could give you her number because she wants to turn you into an orbiter.
Or she could give you her number because she’s interested in that moment,but a girl can change her mind more than people change pants.
The only safe way to accurately determine a girls interest is to gauge how easy she makes it for you to escalate things on a physical level.
 

Dark Horse

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There will be women who aren't into you no matter what and no matter what you do.

One reason why a woman may not be into you is because you're simply not her type. If a girl is into intellectual city guys, and you're a blue collared country boy, I doubt you're going to attract her simply because that's not the kind of guys she's attracted to.


My advice would be to identify your "type". Are you a nerd? A country boy? An intellectual? A stoner with lots of tattoos? etc... And then, go to places where women might go that would find your type attractive. For instance, if you're a skinny stoner with lots of tattoos, you're probably not going to find the type of women that find your type attractive at a church, right? BUT, you might find these type of women elsewhere. On the other hand, if you're a super religious church guy, then you might find girls who find your type attractive at a church.

So identify your type and then play to your strengths and environment.
 

darksprezzatura

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Getting a number doesn’t mean as much as it used to.She could give you her number because she wants to turn you into an orbiter.
Or she could give you her number because she’s interested in that moment,but a girl can change her mind more than people change pants.
The only safe way to accurately determine a girls interest is to gauge how easy she makes it for you to escalate things on a physical level.
Compliance is everything. You got to start somewhere.

I want a woman who enthusiastically does what I say. I would match her interest as well. It's a two way street, not a master slave dynamic.

Unless in bed ofcourse.

Point being, tell her to do something, if she doesn't follow your lead, even if she has sex w you, it's useless.

You want plates to make your life fun and easy. Not a damn series of hoops to jump through.
 

Rocnavy

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Every once in a while there is an amazing woman that is just way above the rest and has it all (i.e. Jessica Alba types that are not famous) - so let's say she doesn't reject you but she also doesn't allow anything to happen. You obviously refuse to be in any sort of friend-zone with any woman regardless of how amazing she is and you also obviously do not do anything creepy.

Is there a way to be persistent and try several times from a far without entering a friend zone (don't listen to her problems, don't be shoulder to cry on, don't be always available, etc.) and without being creepy but still putting yourself in a situation where you can have a chance? This is not just about sex but a women with whom you would want an actual relationship.
No aint no woman is amazing for you to stick around if she's not reciprocating interest. Your best bet is to move on.
 

characternote

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There will be women who aren't into you no matter what and no matter what you do.

One reason why a woman may not be into you is because you're simply not her type.
Pretty much this.
There's an influx of people on reddit/seddit who seem to think that 'john anthony' dude is the best womanizer of all time (!)
(this guy if you're not aware of him):

And the idea his fans parrot on reddit is that a girl doesn't have a type. Attraction doesn't matter. All that matters is babystepping comliance and that you never accept her frame if it's a negative one (like her saying 'i'm not interested and you're not my type', or 'i've got a boyfriend i'm not interested' etc) and use the correct 'objection handling lines', assume attraction and keep pushing! If you don't sleep with a girl you done something wrong (didn't assume attraction, didn't use the correct objection handling line, didn't baby step compliance to sex). A 4ft 85 year old should be banging 100% of hot 18 year old cheerleaders as long as he follows them rules apparently :)

Example of one of his fans posts on reddit. They're quite vocal:

https://www.reddit.com/r/datingadviceformen/comments/p9v3wy/_/hc7x5s2
https://www.reddit.com/r/datingadviceformen/comments/r30pd4/_/hm93okb
 

Sebastian0001

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There will be women who aren't into you no matter what and no matter what you do.

One reason why a woman may not be into you is because you're simply not her type. If a girl is into intellectual city guys, and you're a blue collared country boy, I doubt you're going to attract her simply because that's not the kind of guys she's attracted to.


My advice would be to identify your "type". Are you a nerd? A country boy? An intellectual? A stoner with lots of tattoos? etc... And then, go to places where women might go that would find your type attractive. For instance, if you're a skinny stoner with lots of tattoos, you're probably not going to find the type of women that find your type attractive at a church, right? BUT, you might find these type of women elsewhere. On the other hand, if you're a super religious church guy, then you might find girls who find your type attractive at a church.

So identify your type and then play to your strengths and environment.
What if I am the intellectual type but also very laid back with an out-going fun type personality? Where is the place to go to meet women who like that?
 

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