Is cold approaching a fundamentally non-normal activity?

[nicksaiz65]

I agree that the best thing for a nerdy guy to do is work out and develop a physique that will attract women.

No one in the real world would use the phrase “hobbymaxing”. Participating in hobby groups would be a real world, normal expression. That would be social calibration.

I agree that a single guy should be meeting women everywhere.

One of the problems is that a lot of hobbies aren’t entirely female friendly.

As an in-shape guy, I enjoy a lot of fitness activities. I’ve been playing tennis since before puberty. Tennis is a supposedly female friendly sport. For a variety of reasons, tennis isn’t a great way to meet women under 40. It might be a little bit better for meeting 40-55 year old divorced females receiving nice alimony payments if you’re at a private club.

In terms of fitness/athletics, the best way to meet women is usually through some group fitness class. Most of the group fitness classes are majority female. There are numerous styles of fitness classes so it is best to pick one that will be enjoyable for you. Fitness classes avoid the earbud on the general gym floor problem too. You also have to realize that there’s a narrow window for approaching. You’re looking at the 5 mins before class and the 5 mins after class for approaching. Maybe 1-2 approaches per session. You’re doing a 45-60 minute class for that 10 minute window. You’re at least getting a good workout out of it if nothing happens.

Even though fitness classes are majority female, it’s no guarantee of success. Some gyms/fitness studios are not particularly social. Even in the more sociable ones, almost no other guys do approaches there and even women interacting with each other on a friendly basis isn’t a given.



Fair assessment. Next quote will illustrate this more.



If you do cold approaching, you have to devote a lot of time to it in order to get it done. There are more efficient and less emotionally distressing to do things. You’re dealing with a lot of unqualified prospects, since you don’t know if anyone you’re approaching is receptive to it. Granted, you can do a little bit of strong eye contact and smiling qualifying for prospects to see if the women are going to be receptive to an interaction, but even that isn’t ideal. A lot of Millennial women are not good at body language signaling. Many of them are playing with their phones a lot.

In the sales/business development world, cold calling has been discredited as a method for business development since at least the 1990s.

I’ve done approaching in malls and never been close to being kicked out. You would have to have really poor social skills to get kicked out for doing approaches.



I’ve been in my current city for 9 years now. When I first got to the city, I knew no one. I did meet some male friends but none of us hooked each other up. All of us were recent transplants to the city. A lot of times, if we did perceive an opportunity within a social tribe (which was a weak tribe), we would all be competing for the same girl. One guy in this social circle moved here with a girlfriend and later married her. There’s no guarantee that this will happen. One guy in the social circle met a woman through the social circle because she was a distant co-worker of his at a large company. All of us guys made plays for this woman, and she wasn’t even that spectacular. While she was and still remains today cute and thin, she had a prudish reputation and she’s boring with not a great personality.

In the 9 years here, I’ve dated and mated outside of my main social circle simply because my social circles have not been viable. Part of this might be because I am a transplant in a transplant heavy region and it’s a large metropolitan area with generally weak tribes.



I’m better than average looking and have some social skills, so I can make pickup work. I got an extended relationship out of a grocery store approach and an extended relationship out of playing pickup volleyball. You’re right that a nerdy person without social skills isn’t going to be able to make it work in cold approaching. You did need some threshold of looks and social skills to do some approaching,

App swiping isn’t going to be any friendlier than approaching without looks and social skills. It might actually be worse.

This is why people with not spectacular social skills should focus on their physiques. It will reduce the threshold of social skills needed to get laid. This can work in bars and can often produce short term lays, often just one night. It would not help over an extended relationship. For extended relationships, social skills are going to be relevant.



I’m not convinced. The younger generation of women are generally worse at signaling. I do make strong eye contact and smile at women, and will often see who returns the eye contact and smile. It’s not a high percentage. Either the people are not interested in meeting someone new, they have poor social skills (becoming increasingly common), or I am not attractive.

I like the way that you describe the fitness aspect, in that "it reduces the social skills threshold to get laid." I think that's really true.

Big muscles and a rock hard six pack also force women to put you in that "sexual threat" box if you're a nerd. It gets you more respect from guys as well.

 

[Visionist]

I don't think hobbies are a path to getting laid unless you dominate that space. Being invited to a lot of gatherings and parties is a lot more efficient. Birthdays, graduations. You don't know most of the people there but have the right balance of social proof through who you do know (often the guy who's birthday it is) and an IDGAF attitude since you'll not see most of these other strangers again. In closed groups you can get stuck in a rut.

Case in point, when I attended a Latin dance class I never got any female attention. The two brothers running the class were both former male models turned pro dance champions. Well over six feet, ripped to shreds. Girls orbited around them like turds in a flushing toilet. I didn't stand a snowball's hope in Hell of pulling in that environment. Didn't like the music, either (I prefer to understand the lyrics in music - fight me) so I unceremoniously quit. One of the guys attending was pretty cool, to me at least - one of Stormrider's married engineers - he worked at the airport as a mechanic. He gifted me some confidential Airbus blueprints he had, and even invited me to the airport to check out the plane maintenance. I didn't go as we couldn't organise the right time to make it happen. I missed the chance to make a good friend there, I think. A shame I didn't keep in touch.

Conversely, one time at a house birthday party of a friend I settled on a couch next to a reasonably cute girl and we talked for a while. I was green and wasn't putting my hands on her, but I was using a lot of innuendo and saying some pretty risqué things. For hours she didn't get up and leave, and eventually I said "I'm going outside for some air, join me" and made out with her in the front yard, before driving her round mine and F closing. Granted, she was tipsy.

A few years ago I was focused on improving my looks through eating clean, swimming and lifting. I neglected the social side of things and was getting blown off consistently when inviting girls out I'd met in the gym for instance. Many of these girls were blatantly below my SMV, but still rejected me anyway.

TLDR: think gatherings, think events. Not hobby groups.

 

[corrector]

And if you get that nerd to focus on his fitness, lifestyle, career, and social circles, one woman who used to be a C0ck carousel riding slvt turned “good girl” is not out of the question. She is available for him. There is balance in the universe.

Isn't that the Blue-pill though? The nerd gets betamaxed and has to tolerate his ex-CC wife cheating on him 2 or 3 years into the marriage with alphas or with people like @LucianoM.

 

[nicksaiz65]

All this trash talk about nerds and stuff... The whole point of SoSuave is so that you can ascend and do better for yourself. Even for nerds. Baffles my mind that some people forget that.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Here's my two cents: meeting women through your hobbies/social circle is great. But it should not be anyone's SOLE method. There's not enough VOLUME to get your success that way.

 

[mickdollaz]

All this trash talk about nerds and stuff... The whole point of SoSuave is so that you can ascend and do better for yourself. Even for nerds. Baffles my mind that some people forget that.

I've never seen a nerd become cool through PUA. Ever.
The most common outcome is that a nerd becomes even stranger and less socially adept after PUA.

But to answer the original question, yes, it can be, and is "normal" if your social skills are exceptional, or at least well above average. This is rarely if ever the case however, for those who become involved with PUA, so practically speaking the answer is usually "no."

 

[corrector]

If you are a nerd, PUA makes you MORE of a nerd. The over-analyzation of dumb club chicks is not going to make you less of a nerd. PUA was a nerd's way of understanding reality and social dynamics.

I disagree with one aspect. PUA challenges the social comfort zone of the nerd.

I remember social exercises like approaching a very hot woman and saying 'hi" to her and then bouncing and counting how many really hot women said "hi" back. The idea is not every hb 8+ is going to ignore you if you are not her looksmatch. That's better than doing nothing at all. Someone also thought I went to her same University class, etc... this was back in 2003. I mean you need something to work with and PUA did just that.

In my case, I don't think PUA would work if you live with your folks and your parents are tied to your day to day business. The PUA books would say there is no alpha frame to women if you are too close with your folks because you are a child in their eyes so you always feel like you are their child, so the vibe will always be off. So if I did not follow the PUA's advice, to move out of my folks home, live independently, and have a space to bring a woman home too, then I can't really fault PUA as the set-up does not lend itself to PUA experiments.

Either way, I'm just relieved the Black-pill and MGTOW movements have put to rest all of those ideas that turn people into social robots and put stupid ideas in people's head like moving out.

 

[SW15]

I like the way that you describe the fitness aspect, in that "it reduces the social skills threshold to get laid." I think that's really true.

Big muscles and a rock hard six pack also force women to put you in that "sexual threat" box if you're a nerd. It gets you more respect from guys as well.

It's ideal to just have the woman wanting to get naked with you based on your physique. You're not really required to do much of anything. Just as long you don't do something silly, you're good.

TLDR: think gatherings, think events. Not hobby groups.

Gatherings in a social group can be duds, especially after age 30 when most social circles are couples centric. Birthdays, holiday parties, graduations are likely to be attended by mostly couples.

Events like block parties in parks can be ok.

What does that say about women in that they are more approachable on evenings when the responsible men should be getting a good night's rest for their career? I can remember in my 20s doing some "midweek" game, but I just got fed up with the idea of being groggy the next at work. It's a Clown World that rewards the indolent.

It's possible to do midweek game during Happy Hour from 5-8 PM at bars and get rest. It'd be difficult to pull a one night stand from a meeting at a bar on Tuesday at 6:30 PM, but it would be possible to have a good conversation with a woman and find a common interest or activity. The easier method with this is finding a girl at a fitness class, or a gathering/event, then invite for her a first date drink at a bar.

If a woman is out at 11 PM on a Tuesday or Wednesday, she's often more DTF and more down to Earth than someone out at 11 PM on a Friday night or Saturday night.

It's tough to do the groggy at work the next day thing. I have spent my career in white collar work, and all my white collar job have required more mental alertness that I'd get on 5-6 hours of sleep after a late night at a bar. It's possible to do something and keep yourself on a tight leash with a bedtime of something like 10-10:30 PM if you need 7-8 hours of sleep and to be alert at work the next day. You might miss some opportunities though. When I was 21 and still in college, there was this bar that had wild Wednesday nights, but the wildness of the night didn't really begin until at least 10:30-11 PM. Fortunately, I was still a senior in college and being groggy in class the next morning is different than groggy at a job. Screwing up in a senior year class has fewer consequences than screwing up in a white collar job.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I've never seen a nerd become cool through PUA. Ever.
The most common outcome is that a nerd becomes even stranger and less socially adept after PUA.

I was talking more about self improvement and interacting with more women... That's not necessarily PUA.

So would you say nerds are just doomed? Lol.

 

[corrector]

That's what they want.

Nobody wants a dead bedroom or their wife to be cheating on them.

 

[mickdollaz]

I was talking more about self improvement and interacting with more women... That's not necessarily PUA.

So would you say nerds are just doomed? Lol.

Unfortunately, there's almost nothing in self improvement in dating which doesn't fall under the PUA umbrella. Sosuave would be an exception but I almost never see any discussions clearly related to sosuave/djbible recommendations.

I don't think nerds are "doomed." However, there are a lot of social trends which are creating conditions where more and more men are becoming less and less masculine and therefore become less appealing to women.

Likewise, there are lots of reasons why women are becoming less feminine and simultaneously becoming less appealing to men: they're getting fatter, more aggressive, more hypergamous, etc.

 

[mickdollaz]

Gatherings in a social group can be duds, especially after age 30 when most social circles are couples centric. Birthdays, holiday parties, graduations are likely to be attended by mostly couples.

It's tough to do the groggy at work the next day thing. I have spent my career in white collar work, and all my white collar job have required more mental alertness that I'd get on 5-6 hours of sleep after a late night at a bar.

It's amazing that most people at least initially never figured out that the pua lifestyle can't ever work unless it becomes a lifestyle, aka a full time job. The approach "coaches" were often out every night of the week in one of only a handful of the largest cities: toronto, LA, NYC, vegas.

If you have any responsibilities of any kind with work, school, family, fitness or a combination of any, your free time is extremely constrained.

Now that your body is accustomed to a particular sleep/wake cycle, you're supposed to throw that all off with 2-3 nights a week of late nights well into the wee hours and then everything else is supposed to remain normal? I don't think so.

Even "daygame" is going to create a lot of friction in most settings, especially in a smaller city, much less a small town.

PUA is all built upon denial of reality, mainly a worship of SPAM APPROACH. It is in no way shape or form "self improvement."

 

[corrector]

Moving out of your parent's basement is not PUA theory. That's just common sense.

Being social with women is not PUA either. People have been doing that for thousands of years.

PUA isn't some ideaology. They didn't invent anything. The world existed before PUA. All they did was encourage guys to become social robots.

It wouldn't have been that bad if they weren't so fanatical. They crossed the line when they started saying looks, money, and height doesn't matter.

If the gurus were more realistic, honest, down to earth, and simply said "Look, you can't improve your social skills in your environment because you are weirdo who will get blown out. So just practice in a club", then they wouldn't have gotten such a bad rap.

Instead, they became a cult where every normal guy with a GF was supposedly a chode. Everyone was a chode unless you did 50 sets a night. They just couldn't help themselves but nerd everything up. This is why most Puas are weird.

It became league of legends and world or warcraft, but involving chicks.

Believe me, I was in their circles. It wasn't just a bunch of normal dudes learning how to socialize. It was cult of guru worshiping fanboys who threw their lives away to learn how to approach. I never met a PUA that knew any women or had circles of females. Most never got past the approach. That's why you hear them say that word so much. You ask them about closing and all you hear is crickets.

Dunno, I'm still imagining this could still have been allot of fun in its hay-day. Having a headphone in your hear with someone in the background saying do this or do that to a woman like this or that, hidden video cameras of approaches, all of that social support behind a simple approach. You have a movie like Hitch 2005, which really portrayed PUA in a positive light. You don't even have PUA positive movies being made anymore. In the 00s you had Rodger Dodger, 2002, then had Hitch, 2005, and 40 year old Virgin, 2005. It's like can you imagine those films being made today? No such film comes to mind in the past decade and I think films can be a good barometer of social culture.

 

[mickdollaz]

The reality is, jeffy and the "coaches" were the ones who were and are, mentally ill.

So it was normal nerdy guys who were shy and socially awkward but otherwise normal, encountering some degenerate lowlife who has to approach 1,000 drunk skanks to lay one fattie, and then compounding the error by paying them thousands of dollars, and then FORCING themselves to spend an entire weekend with them when that "coach" should have been taking meds in a straitjacket in an insane asylum and well....

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Everything starts off as a cold approach... you are not born knowing someone... everyone meets everyone for the first time. So it is completely normal.

What isn't 'normal' is cold approach as a PUA technique. The idea that you are going out to do 'cold approaching' makes you look creepy as fvck. Just strike up conversations with woman and see what happens, if she' available... she will let you know. Never approach a chick expecting to make something happen... approach women to see if she is interested... if not... no problem, just move on.

YES!!! You nailed it. 100% agree.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

I knew Jeffy from RSD. He personally told me to never be a pickup coach. It looks cool on tv until you realize your entire life consists of yelling and screaming, and sometimes just straight up throat punching the biggest nerds in the world every single weekend and dealing with b1tch shield after b1tch shield just to pay your month's rent. It's sustainable in your 20's. But when you hit your 30's and 40's and still find yourself throat punching nerds in alley ways, it becomes depressing and popping blood vessels because you cant believe how socially retarded they are, it becomes depressing. Just imagine a guy with a lifetime of mental issues and zero social calibration putting pressure on you to change him over a weekend.... lol. That's what it looks like behind the scenes. Depression and violence.

omfg

 

[Lynx nkaf]

Dunno, I'm still imagining this could still have been allot of fun in its hay-day. Having a headphone in your hear with someone in the background saying do this or do that to a woman like this or that, hidden video cameras of approaches, all of that social support behind a simple approach. You have a movie like Hitch 2005, which really portrayed PUA in a positive light. You don't even have PUA positive movies being made anymore. In the 00s you had Rodger Dodger, 2002, then had Hitch, 2005, and 40 year old Virgin, 2005. It's like can you imagine those films being made today? No such film comes to mind in the past decade and I think films can be a good barometer of social culture.

Wedding crashers movie?

 

[SW15]

It's amazing that most people at least initially never figured out that the pua lifestyle can't ever work unless it becomes a lifestyle, aka a full time job. The approach "coaches" were often out every night of the week in one of only a handful of the largest cities: toronto, LA, NYC, vegas.

If you have any responsibilities of any kind with work, school, family, fitness or a combination of any, your free time is extremely constrained.

Now that your body is accustomed to a particular sleep/wake cycle, you're supposed to throw that all off with 2-3 nights a week of late nights well into the wee hours and then everything else is supposed to remain normal? I don't think so.

Even "daygame" is going to create a lot of friction in most settings, especially in a smaller city, much less a small town.

PUA is all built upon denial of reality, mainly a worship of SPAM APPROACH. It is in no way shape or form "self improvement."

I'm a never married, childless man and I have to earn a living and stay fit. I have found late weekday nights to be a challenge. I'd still rather deal with going to bars on weekdays and making that day as compared to trying to make it work on Friday or Saturday night. Around age 30 is when I shifted more towards nonbar venue approaching. I've spent the last 15 years since college graduation living in Top 15 metro areas in the United States.

What friction do you perceive in daygame? Why is it more acute in smaller cities and small towns? What do you define as a small city or small town? My experience with nonbar approaching is that it isn't a big deal in the larger metros where I've resided.

 

[corrector]

Wedding crashers movie?

Was in my blind spot. But yeah that was a riot too! They ended up funeral crashing in the end. Also a 2005 movie.

That's three movies in 2005.

Incidentally the Game book by Neil Strauss was also released the same year. 2005 is the first, and possibly only year I spent money myself to a PUA ($99 US), known as Seduce and Conquer with Payton Kane and they promised a guarantee you'll get laid if you follow his CDs. What a rip-off. They gave you suggestions on fashion and what can they recommend a nerd such as myself? Upgrade to their $ 1,000 US nightlife package where he takes you to a nightclub bar. It was not for me.

That being said...2005 was also the year I was really interested in taking Dance Lessons with the hope of meeting women in the process.
There was also a movie called "Shall We Dance", was released in 2004, but I rented the DVD in 2005 (i.e. so it's processed mentally as that same year, lol!)

This makes me feel there was some Zeitgeist of PUA around that time where it was just popular which peaked around 2005 and then began to decline after 2013.

 

[corrector]

What friction do you perceive in daygame?

Like you are bothering people who are out to do their own business and they may initially even feel threatened by you. They don't know what you are coming with at first.

My experience with nonbar approaching is that it isn't a big deal in the larger metros where I've resided.

Where do you nonbar approach?