Improper understanding and application of boundaries gets men in trouble

[BackInTheGame78]

I've seen a lot of talk about setting "boundaries" for women, but usually the talk centers around their behavior and the boundary.

This is the wrong application of what a boundary is.

The boundary is NOT meant to control their behavior, it is to let them know what YOUR behavior will be if they choose not to respect it.

You cannot control anyone else's behavior, only your own. Therefore when you set a boundary, you aren't telling her she cannot do something, you are telling her that you cannot be with someone who does that.

So instead of saying, "You can't do that," a healthy boundary sounds more like: "If that's how you choose to live, I don't think we're compatible," or "I can't continue this relationship under those circumstances."

The difference seems subtle but it's the mindset behind it that matters.

In the first scenario you are trying to control her behavior. In the second, you are only controlling your own behavior.

That's where many people get boundaries wrong. They see them as tools to change someone else's behavior, when they're really commitments to themselves.

And as such, if you set a boundary and you repeatedly don't enforce it, you are showing you are weak and undermining your own credibility in the relationship with her and most importantly with yourself.

Weak not because you are allowing her to do some thing, weak because you will not stand up for a line in the sand that you have drawn that you claim was unacceptable.

And that's how women begin to lose respect for you. Refusing to enforce boundaries for YOURSELF that you have drawn, meaning you don't respect yourself, so why should she?

So the next time you think you are setting a boundary for HER, remember, the boundary isn't for her, it's for YOU.

 

[Westminster]

That's sound advice not least because controlling and coercive behaviour is now a criminal offence (at least in the UK). Focusing on your own boundaries (and the consequences of breaching them) means you are less likely to fall foul of that.

 

[Plinco]

Like I've said repeatedly, you teach people how to treat you.

 

[RangerMIke]

Setting boundaries is attempt at control... you cannot control women. She is going to do what she will do based on her nature

Sane women know what most men like and don't like. When she does things, most men do not like, then take that as an indication she is not attracted to you.... or she is testing what you are willing to put up with... if it is something you are not willing to put up with, then move on because she is telling you what she is. The last thing is that she is not a normal functioning woman.

I really don't want to get into a 'boundaries' debate. If a man wants to set boundaries with a woman fine, and best of luck with that. I'm just saying I never do this. As soon as a woman starts behaving in a way I don't like, no drama... no arguments... I just move on. A sane woman will know exactly why you have moved on, and if she really likes you she will self-correct... a crazy chick might be confused or angry... but you don't want crazy in your life. I am not interested in trying to train a crazy woman on how to behave.

If your goal is to get a woman no matter what, then sure... setting boundaries will help, but in my experience, it is only temporary. I have lost MANY women to other men because I just walk away from behavior I don't like. My attitude with those men is 'good luck', and I am not exaggerating when I say most of these relationships end poorly for the man who 'won'.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Setting boundaries is attempt at control... you cannot control women. She is going to do what she will do based on her nature

Sane women know what most men like and don't like. When she does things, most men do not like, then take that as an indication she is not attracted to you.... or she is testing what you are willing to put up with... if it is something you are not willing to put up with, then move on because she is telling you what she is. The last thing is that she is not a normal functioning woman.

I really don't want to get into a 'boundaries' debate. If a man wants to set boundaries with a woman fine, and best of luck with that. I'm just saying I never do this. As soon as a woman starts behaving in a way I don't like, no drama... no arguments... I just move on. A sane woman will know exactly why you have moved on, and if she really likes you she will self-correct... a crazy chick might be confused or angry... but you don't want crazy in your life. I am not interested in trying to train a crazy woman on how to behave.

If your goal is to get a woman no matter what, then sure... setting boundaries will help, but in my experience, it is only temporary. I have lost MANY women to other men because I just walk away from behavior I don't like. My attitude with those men is 'good luck', and I am not exaggerating when I say most of these relationships end poorly for the man who 'won'.

That's the whole point with boundaries. They know what is and isn't acceptable and you walk away if they choose not to accept them.

That's the entire point. A boundary is something that will control your behavior, not hers. I'm not into playing guessing games with people. If I wanted that, I could go play a game of Clue.

 

[plumber]

Setting boundaries is attempt at control... you cannot control women. She is going to do what she will do based on her nature

Sane women know what most men like and don't like. When she does things, most men do not like, then take that as an indication she is not attracted to you.... or she is testing what you are willing to put up with... if it is something you are not willing to put up with, then move on because she is telling you what she is. The last thing is that she is not a normal functioning woman.

I really don't want to get into a 'boundaries' debate. If a man wants to set boundaries with a woman fine, and best of luck with that. I'm just saying I never do this. As soon as a woman starts behaving in a way I don't like, no drama... no arguments... I just move on. A sane woman will know exactly why you have moved on, and if she really likes you she will self-correct... a crazy chick might be confused or angry... but you don't want crazy in your life. I am not interested in trying to train a crazy woman on how to behave.

If your goal is to get a woman no matter what, then sure... setting boundaries will help, but in my experience, it is only temporary. I have lost MANY women to other men because I just walk away from behavior I don't like. My attitude with those men is 'good luck', and I am not exaggerating when I say most of these relationships end poorly for the man who 'won'.

you just described setting a proper boundary. and its consistent with what op said.

 

[Prepostereax]

A boundary does not need to be stated.
You just need to know where YOUR boundaries lie.
And stick to them
Unilaterally, that is. Boundaries are not up for negotiation.

For example, once I had circumstantial evidence that a gf was contacting her ex
(She made a booty call, but there was something odd about the time of day and urgency of this call.
When I left her place, I noticed her ex's distinctive vehicle parked in the next block)
Being naiive in the ways of women at that time, I did ask a female colleague to help figure out if this was enough of a smoking gun.
Once I'd decided that she'd crossed a boundary, I went to her place, returned her keys, and put my hand out for mine.
She returned them without a word, because she knew she'd crossed a line and that I'd figured something was up.
(ie no conversion about "me v him", or anything else for that matter.
As far as I was concerned, she wasn't worth spending any more effort on)

 

[BadBoy89]

So instead of saying, "You can't do that," a healthy boundary sounds more like: "If that's how you choose to live, I don't think we're compatible," or "I can't continue this relationship under those circumstances."

The difference seems subtle but it's the mindset behind it that matters.

In the first scenario you are trying to control her behavior. In the second, you are only controlling your own behavior.

Its the same result though.

In fact, you make the argument the 1st instance is manly and the 2nd instance is feminine.

On a Friends episode, Chandler told Monica he was "putting his foot down" and said "you can't spend all our money on our wedding." Then Phoebe says "Wow, money and firm hand. Finally a Chandler I can get board with."

 

[BPH]

I think a good way to go about boundaries is summarized by this quote: "you get what you expect and you deserve what you tolerate".

 

[Bokanovsky]

I've seen a lot of talk about setting "boundaries" for women, but usually the talk centers around their behavior and the boundary.

This is the wrong application of what a boundary is.

The boundary is NOT meant to control their behavior, it is to let them know what YOUR behavior will be if they choose not to respect it.

You cannot control anyone else's behavior, only your own. Therefore when you set a boundary, you aren't telling her she cannot do something, you are telling her that you cannot be with someone who does that.

So instead of saying, "You can't do that," a healthy boundary sounds more like: "If that's how you choose to live, I don't think we're compatible," or "I can't continue this relationship under those circumstances."

The difference seems subtle but it's the mindset behind it that matters.

In the first scenario you are trying to control her behavior. In the second, you are only controlling your own behavior.

This all sounds nice but it's a distinction without a difference. It's like telling someone: "I'm going to beat the sh!t out of you if I see you here again". Yes, in theory you are controlling your own actions, but really, you are tying to influence the other person's conduct. That's why you are issuing an ultimatum.

At the end of the day, what matters is that the other side understands that there will be unequivocal consequences to bad behaviour. And these consequences better be real. You have to be prepared to walk away and never come back.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This all sounds nice but it's a distinction without a difference. It's like telling someone: "I'm going to beat the sh!t out of you if I see you here again". Yes, in theory you are controlling your own actions, but really, you are tying to influence the other person's conduct. That's why you are issuing an ultimatum.

At the end of the day, what matters is that the other side understands that there will be unequivocal consequences to bad behaviour. And these consequences better be real. You have to be prepared to walk away and never come back.

That's where you are wrong.

Because the devil is in the details.

If you are telling her "This is a boundary you aren't allowed to cross" the default response when she does is that you start to argue with her and get in a fight and then that's how men get drawn in over and over again by an apology and her claiming she won't do it again and then on and on it goes because she realizes it's not really a boundary if you continue to allow it to happen.

When the boundary is for yourself, none of that happens and you simply let her know this won't work out and walk away.

 

[Bokanovsky]

That's where you are wrong.

Because the devil is in the details.

If you are telling her "This is a boundary you aren't allowed to cross" the default response when she does is that you start to argue with her and get in a fight and then that's how men get drawn in over and over again by an apology and her claiming she won't do it again and then on and on it goes because she realizes it's not really a boundary if you continue to allow it to happen.

When the boundary is for yourself, none of that happens and you simply let her know this won't work out and walk away.

You've missed my point entirely.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Setting boundaries is attempt at control... you cannot control women. She is going to do what she will do based on her nature

Sane women know what most men like and don't like. When she does things, most men do not like, then take that as an indication she is not attracted to you.... or she is testing what you are willing to put up with... if it is something you are not willing to put up with, then move on because she is telling you what she is. The last thing is that she is not a normal functioning woman.

I really don't want to get into a 'boundaries' debate. If a man wants to set boundaries with a woman fine, and best of luck with that. I'm just saying I never do this. As soon as a woman starts behaving in a way I don't like, no drama... no arguments... I just move on. A sane woman will know exactly why you have moved on, and if she really likes you she will self-correct... a crazy chick might be confused or angry... but you don't want crazy in your life. I am not interested in trying to train a crazy woman on how to behave.

If your goal is to get a woman no matter what, then sure... setting boundaries will help, but in my experience, it is only temporary. I have lost MANY women to other men because I just walk away from behavior I don't like. My attitude with those men is 'good luck', and I am not exaggerating when I say most of these relationships end poorly for the man who 'won'.

Well said. The whole concept of "boundaries" is rather stupid to begin with. You shouldn't have to verbalize the fact that being a wh0re or acting in a blatantly disrespectful manner is unacceptable. If it's something small, you should be able to have a normal discussion about it without making threats. If you find yourself issuing an ultimatum to a woman, it's already over.

 

[RangerMIke]

Well said. The whole concept of "boundaries" is rather stupid to begin with. You shouldn't have to verbalize the fact that being a wh0re or acting in a blatantly disrespectful manner is unacceptable. If it's something small, you should be able to have a normal discussion about it without making threats. If you find yourself issuing an ultimatum to a woman, it's already over.

I think men and women should have standards, and when a potential partner doesn't fit... well... they don't fit... and you move on.

I suppose if by "setting boundaries" someone means they are self-aware of what they need, and having the self-discipline to not compromise on anything someone can not live with... okay... set boundaries for YOURSELF.

If someone thinks setting boundaries is trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole... well that is just stupid. Or if you are laying out conditions... again... waste of time. I want someone to be their true and authentic self... then I can decide if I want to spend time with them. If you lay out conditions, you might have someone who is hiding who they really are... only to have their true nature emerge when you are deeply emotionally committed. Then you have pointless drama and chaos.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a discussion (and distinction) many here can benefit from.

Boundaries are for YOU. I agree with OP. Let me give you some examples....

1. A woman I know revealed herself to be a rather nasty gossip -spreading hurtful rumors about me and a close girlfriend of mine. My girlfriend went to lunch with her to "call her out", which of course the gossip denied. My approach? Withdraw, do not associate with her socially, do not explain myself. Why?

She is unimportant to me and does not warrant the satisfaction of knowing the lies she spread were hurtful. I simply married a hotter man than she can hold down, go on enviable trips, sing in my band, and cultivate friendships with people who are cooler than she is (shrugs).

I exclude the gossip. Just this weekend she asked via text if my best gf and I can attend a get together this past Monday. My gf made an excuse. I didn't bother to resond at all. Why would I? My silence and exclusion of the gossip from my life speaks more powerfully than any words ever could.

2. Another woman took financial advantage of a close male friend of mine who was suffering with colon cancer and in chemo. This woman lied, gaslit and held over for a week in his rental unit (without paying) after saying she was moving without giving 30-day notice. How do I know? My male friend called me to ask for advice, and he is as straight up as they come. She then had the gumption, at a social function, to try and BS me about it. I called her out and embarrassed her to her face in front of others and asked her how dare she be so entitled with a man who was honest while he was dealing with cancer and how dare she lie about what happened.

The blood drained out of her face and she shut up.

Obviously I dropped her out of my circle too.

People who know me know that I do not put up with snakes. Once you show me you are a ****ty human being? See ya. You no longer qualify to participate in my life.

Those are MY boundaries. My husband even knows that if he is ****ty? Leave. There's the door. I am who I am, and as long as you are cool? We are cool. Otherwise? Dueces. Seriously.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I think during early stages before commitment and while you are observing behavior to determine if values match, boundaries are internal for YOU, nothing needs to be said.

You observe quietly and should they behave in ways that don't align with your particular values? Say nothing, wish 'em well and walk away. Not a match.

Or you could actually explain it depends. But walking away without explaining is also fine.

However once a commitment has been made, whether LTR or marriage, if/when your partner behaves disrespectfully, depending on what that disrespectful behavior entails, I think a conversation is (or might be) warranted. Versus just leaving.

For example cheating. An obvious no brainer. Just pack your things and walk. But other things?

Unless you have discussed previously like your feelings about communications with male "friends" or ex boyfriends or ex FWBs, to me a conversation is warranted versus just leaving.

I mention this as our own @BeExcellent maintains friendships with men including with ex boyfriends and her husband is perfectly OK with that. Other men may be as well so it's wrong imo to expect your woman to know that YOU don't unless you have a conversation about it.

Otherwise why bother committing? If you're not willing to endure the tough times (including something you find disrespectful) and communicate to resolve a conflict?

Personal boundaries are enforced how @BackInTheGame78 described. You're not laying down some law or dictating what they can or cannot do, you're simply telling them (calmly and respectfully) what YOU will or will not tolerate in order to remain in the relationship.

After that it's HER choice to stay or go. If she stays she cannot (or shouldn't) come back later blaming you for "making" her stop a particular behavior. Doing so is blame shifting, gaslighting whatever we wish to call it and it's wrong imo.

Everyone has agency and should behave in accordance with that.

$.02.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Just to clarify that boundaries breakdown was originally my point, not BackInTheGame78's. He posted it days after I said basically the same thing, and agreed with it at the time.

I must've missed that @OngBak I was just going on the original post on this thread.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Just to clarify that boundaries breakdown, including the control part was originally my point, not BackInTheGame78's. He posted it days after I said basically the same thing, and agreed with it at the time.

I have no recollection of that but if it helps soothe your oversized ego, sure you can have all the credit even though I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You agreed with my point in writing before recycling it into your own post days later. That's the timeline, that's the evidence, and no amount of "clarifying" changes it. I'd drop it if I were you.

Considering I've made the same points many years prior, trust that you aren't the first to say similar things.

Now I see why you have trouble with women...my lord man, get a life.