I think that I just royally f'ed up

[Augustus_McCrae]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind


If you look at what I suggested in my message it’s not a formal gee can I take you to dinner suggestion. It’s hey I’m gonna kick it over here. Join me.

Those are very different energies. Indecision and aloof behavior can easily come off as low interest, no initiative and wishy washy. Not attractive.

This girl in fact has ALREADY launched that complaint rather candidly. Because of that OP told her he likes her. Ok cool. He didn’t turn into a lap dog in that moment but he shouldn’t just go back to the ultra Joe Cool behavior either. It’s tiring, and while it may build attraction at first...it’s annoying over time.

Example. Last weekend I met a cool guy. Tall dark & handsome, nice muscular body, full hair, well dressed. He had stared at me all night, his friend was obviously talking with him about me, lots of non verbal cues. I even walked over nearby and bought myself a drink to increase proximity...and nearly sasheyed off before the friend grabbed me. Good conversation ensued until my friends (who were ready to bounce and I was driving), dragged me off. He fished around a bit awkwardly in his billfold and gave me a business card. My cell is on there...he said. My friends were jonesing to go & I didn’t have my phone & he wasn’t smooth enough in that moment to whip out his phone for my number.

So I sent him a text the next day to say nice to meet you. He pinged back immediately but let the conversation drop. He’s an IT guy, reserved, bit of an introvert, but quite attractive. Also kind of awkward. Sunday I ran into his buddy who said hey what’s up with dude, and I said I don’t know, not all that communicative...a little while later he pings me to come for a drink somewhere else. I say OK. I show up, buddy is there as well as a female pal, and while it was nice to hang out with them and they were cool, I didn’t have opportunity to get to know him very much. He walked me to my car, gave me a light kiss & we both left. Sporadic texts a bit this past week, but if he expects me to chase after him and do the leader’s job of initiating, then he’s either 1. Not that into me, 2. Seeing someone else already (refer also to 1.), or 3.) is socially awkward.

Had the guy stayed he liked me or been more assertive in the interactions, I’d still have high interest. As it stands now Im more “Meh”. He’s still attractive but I need more to work with.

Contrast that to a less physically attractive but extremely socially attuned man who pinged me earlier tonight, was engaging and asked me out for a night next week straightaway. Very interesting, intelligent and funny guy, brilliant intellect, less physically attractive than I generally entertain but elegant and classy and adroit. Complete self confidence, which has a certain swagger I appreciate.

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

Thought you had a boyfriend, you spinning plates BE?

-Augustus-

 

[user43770]

This argument really comes down to "action"

Action = testosterone
Emotions/bonding = oxytocin

Aloof can work when a guy is busy. Again (action) getting things done in the world

Too much communication (texting etc) indicates oxytocin and low action in day to day life

That guy not having the balls to make the proper moves on you is also low action

OP showed he had a ton of oxytocin for that girl and very little T for her. When it should be the other way around

Really? Fvck me. Should have showed more oxytocin.

Some of y'all have to be joking.

 

[user43770]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind

Again, an aloof mindset stems from not caring about the outcome, not fear. A man that was fearful would be all over her and in a rush. He would think that his window was closing. "Hey, can I take you out some time?" That's coming from a fearful place. By standing back and letting her play her cards, he's being a mere tactician.

If you look at what I suggested in my message it’s not a formal gee can I take you to dinner suggestion. It’s hey I’m gonna kick it over here. Join me.

Those are very different energies. Indecision and aloof behavior can easily come off as low interest, no initiative and wishy washy. Not attractive.

That's why I said to gauge her interest and go from there. Not to outright ask her on a date, which you suggested.

This girl in fact has ALREADY launched that complaint rather candidly. Because of that OP told her he likes her. Ok cool. He didn’t turn into a lap dog in that moment but he shouldn’t just go back to the ultra Joe Cool behavior either. It’s tiring, and while it may build attraction at first...it’s annoying over time.

It may be tiring for older women that have a bunch of baggage, but younger women seem to thrive off it. I bet you did, too, in your younger days.

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

Responses in bold.

Fortune favors the bold, sure. Unless bold = wearing your heart on your sleeve with women.

I'm sure that most posters on sosuave have stories about the times we were fully open and honest with women. Doesn't end well.

You told the OP to "be a man," which I find amusing. As if you have a better idea of what a man is than any of us do.

 

[user43770]

I'm sure there will be theorists lining up to say that if your frame is tight enough, you can act however you want around women.

No woman admires an emotional man that wears his heart on his sleeve, because it's a feminine trait.

 

[Medina]

No woman admires an emotional man that wears his heart on his sleeve, because it's a feminine trait.

Yeah its called the oxytocin hormone, its responsible for love, trust and bonding

You moron

 

[user43770]

Yeah its called the oxytocin hormone, its responsible for love, trust and bonding

You moron

Well, I'm not a moron, Medina. By the way, I generally like your posts. You have a sense of humor similar to mine. Didn't mean to offend you.

I've read about oxytocin in the past, but only in relation to jacking off. I.e. the drug is released into your brain every time you look at porn. I'd never thought much about it, beyond that.

Having said that, I highly doubt that anyone should blame their social faux pas' on such a flimsy construct. As if our every action were predisposed by a minor hormone release.

Do you really think that a minor hormone release has ultimate control over all of our actions?

 

[lamath]

Sorry guys, this is one of the rare occasions that I agree with @BeExcellent, well not all but most.

If any of you have had multiple relationships with women, you'd sometimes been in a similar situation as OP, you know she's bad news or whatever but the pull is there regardless of how you think and it can be irritating.

Sometimes I just chalked it up to some stupid biological reaction that pushes my DNA to want to spread my seed through certain women, there's no controlling it at times but it needs to be kept at bay, for that OP has displayed some good frame.

From his original post, she seems to be into him too.

Didn't she chase him outside whilst she was on a date with another dude?

So the onus is on OP if he desires to pursue it further, but he shouldn't take too long, maybe a couple of days to keep his one-itis suffering in her frustrations...

Same here, it would usualy be a bad move but need to calibrate to interest level that is clearly high

 

[Epic Days]

Do you really think that a minor hormone release has ultimate control over all of our actions?

It would depend upon how addicted you are. One can’t escape the fact that a woman’s “feels” for you will dwindle after the honeymoon. Yes she will eventually desire the “high” again.
Socially the onus is on the man to create it in her. Just look at the comments socially constructed for that when she bounces to the next guy.
“You should have kept her interested.”
“Should have been a better husband/boyfriend.”
“Should of listened to her when she tried to tell you.”

The justifications are endless. The fact is, she is wanting the high and the “feel goods”.
So yes, those hormones can, not always, cause an individual to actions.

Your perceived value can delay or eliminate her desire to jump ship. But to think that her “feels” are the same, you are mistaken.
Many a “happily married” wife has jumped the beach guy just to get some feels. She never had any intention of jumping from her husband. And yes, to her, she’s still happily married and it didn’t mean a thing.

 

[Medina]

Well, I'm not a moron, Medina. By the way, I generally like your posts. You have a sense of humor similar to mine. Didn't mean to offend you.

I've read about oxytocin in the past, but only in relation to jacking off. I.e. the drug is released into your brain every time you look at porn. I'd never thought much about it, beyond that.

Having said that, I highly doubt that anyone should blame their social faux pas' on such a flimsy construct. As if our every action were predisposed by a minor hormone release.

Do you really think that a minor hormone release has ultimate control over all of our actions?

I was in forum war mode mate

But studies certainly suggest so. Hormones affect our behaviour big league. Both positive and negative. Oxytocin makes males good fathers for example

Testosterone is the opposite, rage and lift, gives us an ability to hunt and kill without feeling empathy

Youre right its probably more complicated but its certainly valid

 

[AJ84]

Being too aloof isn't rooted in fear, it's rooted in not giving a fvck. Which is why women like it.

Bet we already know the OP being too aloof is rooted in fear because he already let that cat of the bag when she asked him why he was being aloof. Can’t put that back in the bag, it’s out there.

He should have kissed her that night and moved this forward. Going back to aloof may just confuse her, annoy her, and drop her interest level. As soon as she sees he is dating other women (and unless he keeps that separate she will find out as they seem to run in the same group) she may step it up or drop it altogether. It’s honestly a 50/50 response based on how much courage she has. Sometimes that actually does work and sometimes it doesn’t so if he’s going to spin plates to reduce onitis but still wants to date her I highly suggest he spin plates in another town far away from the his social group.

In an ideal world she should have asked him out that night or shortly thereafter but most girls don’t ask men out do they? She is clearly interested if his aloof behaviour bothered her to the point where she confronted him about it, and isn’t that one of the games done to rope women in? She was roped and yeah he messed up with what he said but not royally and she responded positively anyway. She may be waiting for him to make a move. If he is that interested he should do what BE suggested.

You can’t just stare at the playbook, you have to also observe what’s happening on the field to determine your next move.

 

[Epic Days]

Either a man wants her or he doesn’t. Sometimes even a lesser woman in the looks department (HB6) can elicit a biological response from me.

That doesn’t mean I am going to jump her. Because I most likely won’t.

OP, just decide if you want her and if you do, lead her to sex. Keep in mind that I only operate in having a great connection. It’s never going past the physical. But it could contain some excursions and road trips to the mountains or whatever.

So what I was trying to do was decipher what you were really after. You seem to be waffling on something.
Look, if your head is full of all that “dangerous women” information, it will eliminate you from fun and exciting experiences and turn you into an idiot.

I think you did just fine. But you’re in limbo and conflicted. That’s my take.

 

[user43770]

Bet we already know the OP being too aloof is rooted in fear because he already let that cat of the bag when she asked him why he was being aloof. Can’t put that back in the bag, it’s out there.

He should have kissed her that night and moved this forward. Going back to aloof may just confuse her, annoy her, and drop her interest level. As soon as she sees he is dating other women (and unless he keeps that separate she will find out as they seem to run in the same group) she may step it up or drop it altogether. It’s honestly a 50/50 response based on how much courage she has. Sometimes that actually does work and sometimes it doesn’t so if he’s going to spin plates to reduce onitis but still wants to date her I highly suggest he spin plates in another town far away from the his social group.

In an ideal world she should have asked him out that night or shortly thereafter but most girls don’t ask men out do they? She is clearly interested if his aloof behaviour bothered her to the point where she confronted him about it, and isn’t that one of the games done to rope women in? She was roped and yeah he messed up with what he said but not royally and she responded positively anyway. She may be waiting for him to make a move. If he is that interested he should do what BE suggested.

You can’t just stare at the playbook, you have to also observe what’s happening on the field to determine your next move.

God, I hate going into so much speculation over somebody else's affairs lol

He said she gave an awkward pause after what he said. Regardless, pretending like nothing happened has more to gain than any other action. In my opinion.

 

[user43770]

Like I said previously, gauge her new mannerisms towards you. If they're good, move in for the close. If they're bad, keep your distance

 

[user43770]

Which is all that ultimately matters.

Keyboard warriors, the lot of us

 

[user43770]

I was in forum war mode mate

But studies certainly suggest so. Hormones affect our behaviour big league. Both positive and negative. Oxytocin makes males good fathers for example

Testosterone is the opposite, rage and lift, gives us an ability to hunt and kill without feeling empathy

Youre right its probably more complicated but its certainly valid

Thanks for the level head, brother. I came at you with a smug tone. I would have responded the same way you did. I'm usually a nice guy, as long as you're not spaz lol

I created a thread related to what you're talking about here. I'm very interested in biological reactions.

 

[AJ84]

God, I hate going into so much speculation over somebody else's affairs lol

He said she gave an awkward pause after what he said. Regardless, pretending like nothing happened has more to gain than any other action. In my opinion.

But this is what confuses me and probably other females. He drunkenly disclosed that the aloofness was basically based on some fear, which can be seen a weakness, If he continues acting the same way, she may continue to see that as a weakness. That’s a risk.

Look it’s crappy that men have to step up like this and honestly you all end up having to step outside of your comfort zones much more than we do and no it’s not fair, but it is what it is and has been for a very long time. Women often need a million green lights before making a move because we like to know 100% that the guy is into us. We don’t handle rejection as well as men, you all know that. Maybe his drunken blurt wasn’t enough for her to make a move because he was drunk talking and it came out of nowhere. Maybe she didn’t know how to react, then it started raining then she had to leave with her friend who was her ride.

If it didn’t rain, if she didn’t have to leave with her friend..... who knows. But it got cut short and he opened the door so maybe she’s waiting and is not sure and the more time that passes with him being aloof, the less sure she will be and the less likely she will make a move, that’s how we are usually. We have no balls lol.

It would be different if he hadn’t blurted that out, but he did. IMO that moment of weakness needs to be replaced with some balls, otherwise he is establishing in her mind that he’s too chicken to make a move and/ or that he is not that interested and it was just the booze talking.

 

[sazc]

She said she likes you, what are you waiting for? Ask her for a 5pm walk in the park so you two can chat and get to know each other. If things go well, take her to dinner. Of things continue to go well ask her to Netflix and chill. You're winning before you've started, I don't see the problem

 

[sazc]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind


If you look at what I suggested in my message it’s not a formal gee can I take you to dinner suggestion. It’s hey I’m gonna kick it over here. Join me.

Those are very different energies. Indecision and aloof behavior can easily come off as low interest, no initiative and wishy washy. Not attractive.

This girl in fact has ALREADY launched that complaint rather candidly. Because of that OP told her he likes her. Ok cool. He didn’t turn into a lap dog in that moment but he shouldn’t just go back to the ultra Joe Cool behavior either. It’s tiring, and while it may build attraction at first...it’s annoying over time.

Example. Last weekend I met a cool guy. Tall dark & handsome, nice muscular body, full hair, well dressed. He had stared at me all night, his friend was obviously talking with him about me, lots of non verbal cues. I even walked over nearby and bought myself a drink to increase proximity...and nearly sasheyed off before the friend grabbed me. Good conversation ensued until my friends (who were ready to bounce and I was driving), dragged me off. He fished around a bit awkwardly in his billfold and gave me a business card. My cell is on there...he said. My friends were jonesing to go & I didn’t have my phone & he wasn’t smooth enough in that moment to whip out his phone for my number.

So I sent him a text the next day to say nice to meet you. He pinged back immediately but let the conversation drop. He’s an IT guy, reserved, bit of an introvert, but quite attractive. Also kind of awkward. Sunday I ran into his buddy who said hey what’s up with dude, and I said I don’t know, not all that communicative...a little while later he pings me to come for a drink somewhere else. I say OK. I show up, buddy is there as well as a female pal, and while it was nice to hang out with them and they were cool, I didn’t have opportunity to get to know him very much. He walked me to my car, gave me a light kiss & we both left. Sporadic texts a bit this past week, but if he expects me to chase after him and do the leader’s job of initiating, then he’s either 1. Not that into me, 2. Seeing someone else already (refer also to 1.), or 3.) is socially awkward.

Had the guy stayed he liked me or been more assertive in the interactions, I’d still have high interest. As it stands now Im more “Meh”. He’s still attractive but I need more to work with.

Contrast that to a less physically attractive but extremely socially attuned man who pinged me earlier tonight, was engaging and asked me out for a night next week straightaway. Very interesting, intelligent and funny guy, brilliant intellect, less physically attractive than I generally entertain but elegant and classy and adroit. Complete self confidence, which has a certain swagger I appreciate.

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

Last we heard you were dating a man, for awhile. What happened to him? What happened to that relationship?

 

[user43770]

But this is what confuses me and probably other females. He drunkenly disclosed that the aloofness was basically based on some fear, which can be seen a weakness, If he continues acting the same way, she may continue to see that as a weakness. That’s a risk.

Look it’s crappy that men have to step up like this and honestly you all end up having to step outside of your comfort zones much more than we do and no it’s not fair, but it is what it is and has been for a very long time. Women often need a million green lights before making a move because we like to know 100% that the guy is into us. We don’t handle rejection as well as men, you all know that. Maybe his drunken blurt wasn’t enough for her to make a move because he was drunk talking and it came out of nowhere. Maybe she didn’t know how to react, then it started raining then she had to leave with her friend who was her ride.

If it didn’t rain, if she didn’t have to leave with her friend..... who knows. But it got cut short and he opened the door so maybe she’s waiting and is not sure and the more time that passes with him being aloof, the less sure she will be and the less likely she will make a move, that’s how we are usually. We have no balls lol.

It would be different if he hadn’t blurted that out, but he did. IMO that moment of weakness needs to be replaced with some balls, otherwise he is establishing in her mind that he’s too chicken to make a move and/ or that he is not that interested and it was just the booze talking.

Fair point. Though wordy.

Yes, she may see it as the booze talking, but that only works to his advantage. It makes him more of a prize, as he never does this sort of thing generally.

If he shows weakness now, by acting like every other guy she's been around, then she's sure to check him in the side box.

The only way to not be considered an average bloke, is to act different. He does that by playing it cool and pretending like nothing happened.

Gauge her new interest level. If it's higher, as in she's being more open and touchy/feely, then move in.

If she's acting more closed off all of a sudden, then it's obvious that she doesn't feel the same way. For whatever reason. Who cares the reason. Fvck her

 

[AttackFormation]

... We don’t handle rejection as well as men, you all know that. Maybe his drunken blurt wasn’t enough for her to make a move because he was drunk talking and it came out of nowhere. ...

You acknowledged that it's not fair however like life in general it is what it is (I agree), but you still put this in a more flattering way than what is the reality. We don't handle rejection better in an innate sense than you do (except for antisocial men). Women just feel entitled to let men deal with the things that require effort or pain, and have the abundance to make that a reality, which is how and why we need to learn to deal with it more.

It would be different if he hadn’t blurted that out, but he did. IMO that moment of weakness needs to be replaced with some balls, otherwise he is establishing in her mind that he’s too chicken to make a move and/ or that he is not that interested and it was just the booze talking.

I think whether he should make a move depends on what his goal with the woman is. I agree that he should not act out of fear, primarily for his own sake as it's a bad habit rather than because this specific girl may be turned off by it although that's a factor too. If she's just a plate, he could either make a move to get it over with or just minimize it and let her come to him as women can be more attracted to men whose feelings are unclear. As long as his choice is what he actually wants to do rather than out of fear, it's fine. However if he wants to screen for a ltr he should make a move, as that will filter out a dysfunctional woman who is repelled by him showing a modicum of intimacy.