How Feminism Ruined Dating

[Boilermaker]

I have a girl, I have money, but I still have every right to b1tch about the system because I shouldn't have to work that hard if people were held accountable and that we men educated ourselves and stopped tolerating bull$hit.

So, everyone here, let's stop fooling ourselves and assuming that just because someone complains about something it means they are not successful in said endeavor. That is just not true.

Great! All this puts you in a very special position among all men. Actually I never thought you were unsuccessful. But if you are one of the precious few; please share your wisdom, not your bitterness.

You have every right to be grumpy, right, but it puts a shadow on your self-proclaimed successes. Success is always unifying; you don't get to hear successful people whine about the difficulties they endured.

 

[Boilermaker]

There is absolutely no difference in principle between men here who comment or complain about women's behavior, and Zarky and you complaining about their complaining ....Complaining is complaining .
IF the topic of a thread annoys you , ignore the whole thread.

Alternatively, if you can possible put aside your junior arrogance for a bit , you might even learm something from those who have walked the walk before you were born.

Complaining is complaining. Hmm... No. There's a world of difference between blaming life (and others, and things, and women, and luck, and society) for one's miseries, and blaming people who pollute the forum with their feeble stories about "feminism" (We have a horde of sociologists and historians, not to mention ... shining psychiatrists in our club)

Seriously who's the audience of this thread? Who are we talking to? All this is a bitter cry to silent cosmos.

I have nothing but respect to those who "walked the walk before I was born", my problem is with those who had been bitter all their life ..

My words won't "get to" guys who have solved their problems by the time they have become a true "Mature Man". They have taken life for what it is, they have adapted. Adaptation is intelligence, as Richard Dawkins puts it. Yes, I can understand the release these threads give to those with clenched jaws and bitter memories; it's just that my junior ego couldn't hold itself watching this sad play unfold for the hundredth time. I apologize, gentlemen, carry on. Didn't mean to ruin the party.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Some of you guys TRULY, in the deepest sense, disappoint me.

You are quick to throw LABELS around, just like girls do. Once you label, you go your merry way into your own analogue to women's own land of fairy tales and unicorns. You've got your own land of make-believe, and the feminist machine is the entity that has churned you out to buy into the philosophy they engineered into you.

I'm now going to state that which should be obvious. In fact it's so obvious, I'm amazed that I even have to type this:

The older guys here are not complaining. They are educating you and showing you that you don't have to accept the status quo, that You, yes, YOU, can do something about the contrived state of our society.

We're showing you that YOU YOURSELF are the product of the feminist machine. Some of you are completely convinced that society was always the way it is now, and that women always behaved the way you have seen them behaving all your life.

We are showing you that this is patently untrue, that it was different when we were younger, and therefore it is POSSIBLE for you to be the vanguard of a new movement to start to turn things around.

We're trying to show what we lived through in the past, in order that you might gain hope for a better future for you and your kids and grandkinds. We mustn't just blindly accept the bizarre circus that we find ourselves in. Some of the more mature men here are shouting out to the crowd that there is another world out there, another possibility that you can engineer for yourself, for your future offspring, and for the world at large.

So many of you are convinced, beyond all reason, that women today are behaving as they always have throughout history. Of course they have always had their hard-to-deal-with proclivities, which we are all aware of. But what you don't see is that those proclivities have been allowed to grow into monstrous deformities, and we find ourselves adjusting and molding ourselves to accommodate them (thereby diminishing in our own character), rather than pointing out the bizarreness and unnaturalness of these contrivances and working to restore some semblance of proper balance.

There is opportunity here. That's why we talk about it and demonstrate to you that the climate we find ourselves in today is the result of a cultural meltdown, rather than something that is universal and immutable. Complaining for its own sake does nothing. But you younger guys need to be INFORMED by the guys who lived before you that you have possibilities within your grasp, if only you'll reach out and seize them.

Don't buy into the machine that engineered your world-view. Transcend it. All it takes is opening your mind, dropping the pride act that makes you feel so important and knowledgable, and daring to look at a different possibility.

Much can be learned from history. Learn from it now before it gets erased and replaced by falsehoods that support and fuel YOUR PROGENITOR, the Feminist Machine.

 

[Jitterbug]

This is like the Second Red Pill for some people.

The automatic knee-jerk reaction to label anything negative people bring up as "whining" or "bitter" reeks of feminist shaming tactics that have permeated Western societies.

Success is always unifying; you don't get to hear successful people whine about the difficulties they endured.

Nobody's whining here. And ALL successful people TALK about the difficulties they endured. Have you ever read any biographies of such people?

I'm grateful that the older, experienced DJs are here talking to us about what it was like and sharing their experiences. Saves me a lot of troubles figuring it out on my own, to say the least.

 

[jophil28]

Of course they (women) have always had their hard-to-deal-with proclivities, which we are all aware of. But what you don't see is that those proclivities have been allowed to grow into monstrous deformities, and we find ourselves adjusting and molding ourselves to accommodate them (thereby diminishing in our own character), rather than pointing out the bizarreness and unnaturalness of these contrivances and working to restore some semblance of proper balance.

That is the central issue for men under 35.
The "quirkiness" of women's behavior in previous generations has now become deformities, and normalized behavior, at that.
Younger men need to believe that women are capable (at least some ) of acting in ways that respect and honor men. You do not have to accept the results of feminist encouragements to women. You do not have to accept that women are "just like that" because they are not. You do not have to live a life of anxiety and fear that you may inadverteently walk on some womsn's sensitivities. You do not have to live a life in the belief that it is your mission to please women and comply with their demands.

The older men here are making the point that one generation ago women and men acted quite differently toward each other, and that a return to that style of interaction is within your grasp provided you are willing to break out of your feminized indoctrination.

Insulting 'the elders' with charges of "bitter,complaining " is more an indication of your comprehension difficulties in grasping what is being said to you.
The leveling of "bitter old men" charges is also a precise example of what AT writes about in his claim that your feminized brainwashing has set you up with a particular mindset of blaming and shaming.

Finally, it is highly unlikely that any of the vets here will be unduly disturbed or give any credence to a know-it-all 25 year old who has not earned his stripes.

 

[Boilermaker]

has now become deformities, and normalized behavior, at that.
Younger men need to believe that women are capable (at least some ) of acting in ways that respect and honor men.

I don't remember defending the opposite. As far as I remember, Zarky, who triggered this, never made such a claim either.

You do not have to accept the results of feminist encouragements to women. You do not have to accept that women are "just like that" because they are not. You do not have to live a life of anxiety and fear that you may inadverteently walk on some womsn's sensitivities. You do not have to live a life in the belief that it is your mission to please women and comply with their demands.

I refuse to accept the results of feminist encouragements. I also refuse to accept any dogmas, on feminism, or society, or life in general from the elderly just for the sake of their age. Makes me remember the old man recounting the old times in Orwell's 1984. A good section illustrating my point.

Insulting 'the elders' with charges of "bitter,complaining " is more an indication of your comprehension difficulties in grasping what is being said to you.
The leveling of "bitter old men" charges is also a precise example of what AT writes about in his claim that your feminized brainwashing has set you up with a particular mindset of blaming and shaming.

Why would I try to shame you Jophil? You are my hero. Insulting you? I never meant that. I sincerely apologize -- I meant to inject a positivist perspective . This comes from my heart.

Finally, it is highly unlikely that any of the vets here will be unduly disturbed or give any credence to a know-it-all 25 year old who has not earned his stripes.

I can see that from the pithy responses I triggered from the vets

 

[Boilermaker]

This is like the Second Red Pill for some people.

The automatic knee-jerk reaction to label anything negative people bring up as "whining" or "bitter" reeks of feminist shaming tactics that have permeated Western societies.

Feminist shaming tactics that have permeated Western societies?
Why don't you contribute an essay on what that is and we all benefit from it?
Look I admire and respect Jophil as much as you do , and I understand YOUR knee-jerk reaction in coming to defense but if you really think removing negativity from one's life and striving for a positive attitude are feminist shaming tactics, your paranoia has hit dangerous levels.

 

[Boilermaker]

The older guys here are not complaining. They are educating you and showing you that you don't have to accept the status quo, that You, yes, YOU, can do something about the contrived state of our society.

Thanks for the education, really. I never thought my purpose of existence is to please women. I don't remember implying anything of that sort. Complaining about something, and doing something about it are two different things. My comparatively short experience with people showed that usually people who tend to complain are people who did not fulfill their share of the responsibility. It is not obvious that the purpose of this thread is to educate younger men. I didn't get that impression, until you explicitly said that.

We're showing you that YOU YOURSELF are the product of the feminist machine. Some of you are completely convinced that society was always the way it is now, and that women always behaved the way you have seen them behaving all your life.

I don't think society was always like this. It probably never was. Just like it was never like what it had been before, in 1950. Change is evermore. How am I a product of the feminist machine? Because I refuse to engage the feminist monster, because I seek happiness by working on things I CAN CONTROL, that makes me weak? No, with all due respect, that makes me stronger. I elect to not see the feminist machine. I will filter women individually, judging them by their actions. That makes my task manageable, sparing me the pressures of fighting in some sort of jihad against the Feminist Machine.

Transcend it. All it takes is opening your mind, dropping the pride act that makes you feel so important and knowledgable, and daring to look at a different possibility.

I honestly don't know what I am fighting against, or why I should feel a purpose to resist the evil Feminist Machine. My responsibility against humanity is a different story; you can educate me on that separately. But when it comes to women, I am seeking a stable, happy journey with lots of women like most other young men. I don't know where the enemy is. I don't want to carry this thought on my shoulders either. It is indeed very depressing. Where was the enemy again? ... I don't want to see an enemy. For me, feminism ceases to exist with my simple decisions. I refuse to associate with girls with certain qualities. TO AFFORD THAT I need techniques, solid understanding of their emotional mechanisms and lots of women. That's the only way I can afford to disdain and next the women in the "feminist" category.

That's why I am here.

 

[Zarky]

So, everyone here, let's stop fooling ourselves and assuming that just because someone complains about something it means they are not successful in said endeavor. That is just not true.

But it is true that it makes them a colossal bore. That's my only point.

 

[Wilko]

Well I think it's a useful, interesting thread, and I think the friction between the two main camps makes it a better discussion. Really pretty civil compared to where it could have gone.

I think it's easy, if incorrect to characterise the old timers as wishing for a return to the male/female dynamics of their youth and the 1950-70's. I realise they're just expressing fondness for it but in my own head I hear them crying out to turn the clock back, and I think it sounds stubborn and frankly, impossible. I know, I know, it's a total cariacature, I'm just identifiying my own prejudices on this issue.

Likewise it seems Zarky and others are being painted as tacitly approving (if not assisting?!) the feminist machine because they advocate adaptation to the current dating environment rather than the undoing of said machine.

I am pretty sure adaptation is the way to go, but when you talk about the unravelling of the feminist machine, what are we talking about? A men's movement? Deliberate social engineering just leads to unintended and usually negative consequences.

I think some aspects of feminism will be spontaneously and collectively undone and when it happens I doubt the end result will look much like the dynamics of the 50's-70's, it'll be something new, the game will change again and it'll require more adaptation.....at such time Zarky, Boilermaker and myself will probably rail against it and feel entitled to remind the young'uns just how much easier it was in the days before we all had sex monitoring nano-chips (Futurama, anyone?) and how easy online dating was

If I've grossly distorted anyone's argument, as I surely have, no harm intended.

 

[DanelMadr]

Well I think it's a useful, interesting thread, and I think the friction between the two main camps makes it a better discussion. Really pretty civil compared to where it could have gone.

I think it's easy, if incorrect to characterise the old timers as wishing for a return to the male/female dynamics of their youth and the 1950-70's. I realise they're just expressing fondness for it but in my own head I hear them crying out to turn the clock back, and I think it sounds stubborn and frankly, impossible. I know, I know, it's a total cariacature, I'm just identifiying my own prejudices on this issue.

Likewise it seems Zarky and others are being painted as tacitly approving (if not assisting?!) the feminist machine because they advocate adaptation to the current dating environment rather than the undoing of said machine.

I am pretty sure adaptation is the way to go, but when you talk about the unravelling of the feminist machine, what are we talking about? A men's movement? Deliberate social engineering just leads to unintended and usually negative consequences.

I think some aspects of feminism will be spontaneously and collectively undone and when it happens I doubt the end result will look much like the dynamics of the 50's-70's, it'll be something new, the game will change again and it'll require more adaptation.....at such time Zarky, Boilermaker and myself will probably rail against it and feel entitled to remind the young'uns just how much easier it was in the days before we all had sex monitoring nano-chips (Futurama, anyone?) and how easy online dating was

If I've grossly distorted anyone's argument, as I surely have, no harm intended.

Exactly.

I believe the game is the same. When you are the Man, you have no troubles. Only significant difference and the most frustrating is the lack of providing and protecting demand. The lack of proving yourself in the most basic field of man's skills.
Once we acknowledge ourselves as being capable of basic survival in the wild or in the fight, we will be all right. The same problems had guys in the beginning of 20th century hence the Scout movement. We should restore that in some form.

There is too much distractions and freedom. But you can't cut on the freedom....force people to behave like you want. Educate.

The men's movement is twisted. Because it makes the same mistake as todays feminism. Victim attitude, hate, demanding respect and approval, calls for social engineering/politic action and most importantly demanding the same rights despite the biological differences.
Equality is a myth and dangerous one. Remember George Orwell's Animal Farm?

 

[DanelMadr]

Zarky,

I get the impression that you are confusing whining with explaining.

Remember, new members come here all of the time, and much of the stuff that you already know, they do not. So you get threads like this started by Des for someone to identify and read at some point.

I've seen you post this in a number of threads that do little but take the point away. I understand your desire to see more field reports, but let's get a better solution that does not get people fighting with eachother and that does not hurt the new guys coming on board.

Let's get a field-report section added to this site.

I have nothing against criticism but it should lead to solutions for the future. If it does not, then it is just whining.
I don't mind the whining so much as it sparkles questions and discussion as in this thread and hopefully the reader gets the whole image in the end.

 

[romangod]

Finally, it is highly unlikely that any of the vets here will be unduly disturbed or give any credence to a know-it-all 25 year old who has not earned his stripes.

Bingo!

I read some of their responses and can only think of a lamb being led to slaughter. They may deny it, but they're firmly floating around in the Matrix waiting to be swatted like a fly.

It makes me realize that the problem is deeper than I thought. They're generation has been indoctrinated so deeply that their false bravado and feigned "alphaness" is waiting to be exposed as a sham.


One just needs to go to the main forum to see how clueless today's young men have become. They're going into the battle of the sexes totally unarmed and are fodder for any babe that wants to crush them.

They've lost the battle already. They've been so feminized that they can't see the forest for the trees.


The question is: When will they wake up?


Hopefully, they will wake up before it is too late. Once the "law" takes over they might as well just hand over their balls to their "soulmate" and start climbing out of the bottomless pit to start all over.


Am I complaining? Absolutely not. Am I bitter? Absolutely not. I've never been happier and life is good.

It is what it is.


Cheers!

 

[samspade]

Who cares about all this? Laugh off and ignore the women who aren't worth your time. Live your life on your terms, not theirs - I don't care how "respectful" the woman is or was, you still live your life on your terms no matter what.

People see "the 50s" (or on this thread pre-1980) as either a man's paradise or a woman's hell, depending on who you ask. It's all b.s. - things weren't that good or that bad. In any case we live in the here and now and you control what you can - namely you and your actions and reactions.

 

[Atom Smasher]

This is like the Second Red Pill for some people.

The automatic knee-jerk reaction to label anything negative people bring up as "whining" or "bitter" reeks of feminist shaming tactics that have permeated Western societies.



Nobody's whining here. And ALL successful people TALK about the difficulties they endured. Have you ever read any biographies of such people?

I'm grateful that the older, experienced DJs are here talking to us about what it was like and sharing their experiences. Saves me a lot of troubles figuring it out on my own, to say the least.

Jitterbug is a young man who gets it.

He who learns from his own trial and error experience reaps internal wear and tear that has a certain permanence, or a scarring.

Wise is the young man who examines the past experience of others, listens to his elders, and leverages their experience to his advantage. It's not a matter of treating his elders' advice as gospel, but rather taking it into consideration as he makes his way in the world.

 

[Blusher]

I watched the video... damn, another bitter man who rants, complain and whine instead of adapting. We live in a blessed age where the gender gap can be bridged to live awesome relationship with women.

It's an individual choice to learn how to finally understand women and communicate with them. Most men here are too busy bashing feminists for the state of the world (btw I can't recall the last time I met one, but everyone seems so obsessed with them)

Move on, if you can't change the world, you can at least better yourself and your relationships with women. Blaming any lack of success in your love life on some sociological evolution is like blaming gravity when you fall off the stairs.

 

[Atom Smasher]

That is the central issue for men under 35.
The "quirkiness" of women's behavior in previous generations has now become deformities, and normalized behavior, at that.
Younger men need to believe that women are capable (at least some ) of acting in ways that respect and honor men. You do not have to accept the results of feminist encouragements to women. You do not have to accept that women are "just like that" because they are not. You do not have to live a life of anxiety and fear that you may inadverteently walk on some womsn's sensitivities. You do not have to live a life in the belief that it is your mission to please women and comply with their demands.

The older men here are making the point that one generation ago women and men acted quite differently toward each other, and that a return to that style of interaction is within your grasp provided you are willing to break out of your feminized indoctrination.

Insulting 'the elders' with charges of "bitter,complaining " is more an indication of your comprehension difficulties in grasping what is being said to you.
The leveling of "bitter old men" charges is also a precise example of what AT writes about in his claim that your feminized brainwashing has set you up with a particular mindset of blaming and shaming.

Finally, it is highly unlikely that any of the vets here will be unduly disturbed or give any credence to a know-it-all 25 year old who has not earned his stripes.

Some of you young men see "complaining". Others see keys to freedom and a chance to be a part of the re-education of men and women and normalizing male/female relations... An opportunity to effect change.

There are now websites just starting to pop up with disillusioned women who have turned their backs on feminism and are now exposing it as the toxic, destructive poison that it is.

Critical mass is approaching where those who are enlightened can truly tip the scales and start to turn an upside-down world right-side-up again.

Not talking about it will only perpetuate the SHAME that is foisted upon men. We need to grab our balls and take back that which is rightfully ours.

Does anyone think I write this stuff just to complain? No, I care about what you guys are going through and I see the blind spots that some of you are not yet aware of. I hate that you were born into this feminized climate and are forced to come to this site and others like it just to figure out how to deal with the modern-day insanity that we find ourselves in.

YOU, young man, have been MARGINALIZED and TRIVIALIZED by society, and you are here on SS looking for a way to handle it. You can come up with and use techniques for that purpose, but at the same time you can fight the good fight and not accept the status quo.

Feminism is here because your forefathers (essentially the generation before me) accepted it. They were gutless, spineless, apathetic, afraid, and unsure of themselves. Are we going to be the same way? Are we seriously going to try to shame and silence those who speak out against this twisted societal experiment gone amuck?

Are we seriously going to comfortably tell ourselves, "Women have always been this way, and men have always been this way?" And this in direct contradiction to the experience of others who have been there, who have lived through it?

Think about it.

 

[TizZle]

How do we start to fix it?

 

[Atom Smasher]

How do we start to fix it?

The only way (but a very powerful way) is to learn the truth (this involves transcending what we have always believed to be true), and then to discuss and educate.

We are doing exactly that here. But we are our own worst enemies when we men attempt to silence this important discussion and then label it as "complaining" or "misogyny".

Some of the youngsters here are pissing on the fire of change and societal betterment. We have got to get over the toxic shame that has been foisted upon us and make a manly, direct stand everywhere we go.

 

[romangod]

I watched the video... damn, another bitter man who rants, complain and whine instead of adapting.

Adapting? Do you mean like cutting off your balls and handing them to her while kowtowing with "Yes, dear. Anything you say, dear."?

Or do you mean the guy that has lost everything in a divorce while his ex screws the Hell's Angels should just adapt to the poorhouse and the injustice to men?


That's mangina talk. That's like saying a slave should just adapt to his master instead of seeking his freedom.


If some of you fools don't see how men are being marginalized by the laws and societal brainwashing you are part of the problem, not the solution.


Cheers!