How Feminism Ruined Dating

jophil28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
5,277
Likes
201
Location
Gold Coast. Aust.
#41
Jitterbug said:
You don't have to be old like Atom Smasher to experience what he said firsthand. :p All you have to do is to travel to parts of the world that are not yet brainwashed by feminism and check out the women there.
Good point cousin...

However I am as old as ATOM and everything he mentioned is true - every syllable.
Every guy under 35 or so only has one frame of reference and that is the one he was raised and educated in... the current feminized one designed and implemented by the toxic Left..
AT and I have experienced and lived through a totally different frame to the one that raised and indoctrinated GenY and most of GenX.

When I went to elementary school there were no female principals. Women teachers taught English, and perhaps History and Home Ec.

A man in uniform was respected and even admired.
Women rarely held positions of power or authority
I never saw a lady cop until I was over 25.
Men made all the significant decisions and women(mostly ) complied .

And women behaved differently- very differently.
They did not behave like they do today, and women were not ,"always like that".
 

DanelMadr

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
767
Likes
24
#42
Atom Smasher and Jophil,

I believe you. When my father was young it was common to have a fight at bar for example. And I see that as significant difference. Now it is pretty uncommon and the participants are viewed as criminals. I remember the climate at school....'Fights are bad for whatever just reason M'Kay.' was the mantra.
Male teachers were few but highly praised by us - girls and boys.
And there was this Bully Mania.
Rant>
I was the tallest at my class so I was automatically the bad one. When someone pushed me and I retaliated I was the aggressor because 'you can't beat someone smaller or weaker than you.' (Not to mention only person being bullied was myself, because older guys, which I feared, had no such problems...as I wasn't a rat to tell on them, heh).
>end of rant

You are right about the surge of Left thinking. It probably comes with peace hysteria and prosperity. The pill and welfare took out the responsibility out of equation. Lack of responsibility and easy life make cowards. I don't say all Left are cowards and takers but it sure attracts them and it grows.

But I don't mind living now. I wouldn't change that. It is a mess but you have the freedom. When someone behaves well in total freedom you can bet he or she is the real deal. When it was the social norm to be manly, girls had to settle soon and divorce was frowned upon and it was risky to be divorced as girls couldn't provide for themselves, well, when people were "forced" to behave, it was not solid.
 

Zarky

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
3,266
Likes
80
Location
SoCal
#43
I was in high school in the 70s and I can tell you that even though feminism was in its formative years, there was respect, a complete lack of flaking (it was utterly unheard of), a feeling of being fortunate (on the female's part) for being asked on a date, and a sense of personal responsibility, although far below ours. At least there was a semblance there.
All right, well at least this guy has taken me up (sort of) on my challenge to name a scenario where non-feminist culture would actually be better for dating then current culture.

Assuming, arguendo, that he's right, "back in the day" women never flaked, "felt fortunate" they were asked out, and had a "sense of personal responsibility" whatever that means.

So I'm guessing that, if there were no feminism, if any guy here asked any girl out, the girl wouldn't flake on him and would "feel fortunate" that he asked her at all. That's as good as it gets for the non-feminist dating world?

Pretty sad. In the meantime he'd have to do all the paying, he'd have to wait and wait and wait for sex, he'd have to jump through all the standard masculine hoops that men have had to jump through for millennia.

Fairly raw deal AFAIC. I'll take women who are flakier but put out on the first or second date thanks.

Anybody else have any real-world situations and not just hand-wringing? It really feels to me like b!tching and whining about women is the ultimate act of a beta. Lots of beta boys on this thread and in these forums?
Guess so. :confused:
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
6,703
Likes
2,431
Age
61
Location
The 7th Dimension
#44
Zarky said:
So I'm guessing that, if there were no feminism, if any guy here asked any girl out, the girl wouldn't flake on him and would "feel fortunate" that he asked her at all. That's as good as it gets for the non-feminist dating world?

Pretty sad. In the meantime he'd have to do all the paying, he'd have to wait and wait and wait for sex, he'd have to jump through all the standard masculine hoops that men have had to jump through for millennia.

Fairly raw deal AFAIC. I'll take women who are flakier but put out on the first or second date thanks.
No so. In the 70s I could get laid anytime I wanted to at the drop of a hat. It was SO ridiculously easy. And I was an almost total beta afc.

Yes, we did most of the paying but in those better days women were financially more dependent on men, the way it should be (it is the way of nature). Still, I was only a teenager then, so yes, I bought them their fries and milkshakes and in return reaped the benefits of having a devoted girlfriend. I wasn't much for pump 'n dump, but that was ridiculously easy, too.

See, dude, you are so hung up on your own "knowledge" that you can't even conceive of things being different.

You were taught by a feminized system and you are simply regurgitating much of their doctrine, just the way they trained you to. You've got to make that leap out of your own limited box of education and experience and take a global view by exposing your mind to others who have been there.

No one ever thought that time could literally be slowed down until Einstein came along. "Of course time can't be slowed down. Just look around. We observe that time is a constant."

One man came along and questioned the accepted conclusion to limited understanding of the visible observation, and came up with the principle of relativity.

I'd better shut up now, lest I start sounding like Charlie S.
 

Zarky

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
3,266
Likes
80
Location
SoCal
#45
Well, your anecdotal evidence of "getting laid at the drop of a hat" is hardly an argument.

But I'll go with it for now. You're saying that for men in non-feminized cultures, getting laid is far easier and cheaper?

And pulling the whole "I'm older than you so I know better than you" is a really weak argument. You need to point to specifics, other than your personal history where it was easy for you to get laid in high school but now it isn't. You're extrapolating your own experiences into some sort of blanket model of human interaction. This is fallacious.

You need to use deductive reasoning, not inductive, in cases like these. Because you do not have enough data points to use inductive, you only have your own.
 

How This "Nice Guy" Steals Women from Jerks

Did you know a woman can be totally UN-ATTRACTED to you...

And she'll still sleep with you?

If you've ever seen a girl go home with some asshole she didn't even LIKE, you know this is true.

But how is this possible?

Because deep inside her brain, sexual desire has nothing to do with what you LOOK like...

And everything to do with how you make her FEEL.

Matt Cook knows this all too well.

Matt is a nice guy... but he steals women from JERKS all the time.

In this free video training below, he'll show you how he does it:

How to Control Her Emotions and Make Her Chase You

samspade

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
4,723
Likes
939
#46
With all due respect to old-timers, because I do agree that to some extent feminism has poisoned our culture....

Arguments from "authority" mean very little.

I'm not discounting anecdotal evidence, but it is just that - and only a sliver of the picture.

It's also wise to be skeptical of rose-tinted glasses. A lot of people have tried to tell me how much better NYC was in the 70s too - when it was bankrupt, crime-ridden, and half-burned to the ground. Or for that matter that Moussolini made the trains run on time.

You were taught by a feminized system and you are simply regurgitating much of their doctrine, just the way they trained you to. You've got to make that leap out of your own limited box of education and experience and take a global view by exposing your mind to others who have been there.
Many of us may have been educated in a feminized system. That doesn't mean we're not capable of understanding arguments - but they have to be backed up with more than "I was there" and "you just don't understand because you're brainwashed." Telling someone they're a brainwashed pawn who cannot see past their education - that is not an argument. It's a cop out.
 

Danger

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
10,050
Likes
1,359
#47
I have to side with the old-timers on this one.

I would prefer a world of non-flaky, respectful and appreciative girls and the occassional romp at the brothel to get me by as opposed to this $hit-hole world of "me me me omg did you see Jersey Shore last night" alternative.

For those who doubt what women have truly become in today's world, take a good look at the textsfromlastnight.com site. These are your future wives men.

At least 40 years ago you could have children and raise a family with a girl that was not a wh0re. Nowadays, there is no choice. If you want a family, you have to buy a wh0re to get it. To me, that is a HUGE difference.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
6,703
Likes
2,431
Age
61
Location
The 7th Dimension
#48
Zarky said:
Well, your anecdotal evidence of "getting laid at the drop of a hat" is hardly an argument.

But I'll go with it for now. You're saying that for men in non-feminized cultures, getting laid is far easier and cheaper?

And pulling the whole "I'm older than you so I know better than you" is a really weak argument. You need to point to specifics, other than your personal history where it was easy for you to get laid in high school but now it isn't. You're extrapolating your own experiences into some sort of blanket model of human interaction. This is fallacious.

You need to use deductive reasoning, not inductive, in cases like these. Because you do not have enough data points to use inductive, you only have your own.
You might be able to understand this, but I think you WILL find a way to rationalize it away:
My argument is not "I'm older than you so I know better than you." That was never stated or implied nor do I even think in those terms.

My argument is that I was THERE, experiencing it first-hand. I LIVED it. I lived in the culture. All my afc friends got action in that time. It was easy. It's wasn't easy just for me. It was easy because our culture was entirely different and had different expectations of women.

Just talk to others who were there and read history that has not been tampered with.

Take-home:
This is not about "authority" or "I'm older than you". It's about being there and living it.
 

Chronocidal

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
242
Likes
23
#49
The more recent posts in this thread struck me, especially the mention of appreciativeness and of lack of flaking. I won't argue with anyone on anything here, but I'd be curious about what people think of this matter:

What should we [presumably we're all men here, so that means men] do to restore a culture of respect for men?
 

Burroughs

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
2,223
Likes
94
#50
Atom Smasher said:
It was easy because our culture was entirely different and had different expectations of women.
That's it!...I'm young but have travelled extensively. Its STUNNING when you see husbands treated like gods by their women, in MOST parts of the world, Turkey, India, China, Japan, even South African white women are more docile to their male counterparts.

It must have been a fine time back in the day Atom Smasher when women acted in concert with us...I've seen it with my own eyes in other countries.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

Zarky

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
3,266
Likes
80
Location
SoCal
#52
Burroughs said:
Its STUNNING when you see husbands treated like gods by their women, in MOST parts of the world, Turkey, India, China, Japan, even South African white women are more docile to their male counterparts.
Well, the thing is that in those cultures men treat their women like "princesses" as well. And I'm just not into that.

And I certainly don't want to be a husband.

I've dated many, many women who come from Russia, South America, Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, and other traditional cultures. I can't stand 'em. They expect men to be protective and coddle them and treat them like big children. I have no interest in that.

AND, with a couple of exceptions, I never managed to bang any of 'em, which is even worse. I didn't fit whatever mold they were looking for--I didn't want to pay every time, I didn't want to hold car doors open, I didn't want to make their decisions for them, I didn't want to meet the family, I didn't want to fall into the horrible stereotyped gender roles of yesteryear.

So, hey, maybe that's because I "grew up" in a "feminized" culture. But guess what, that's our culture now and for the foreseeable future, so you either deal with it or whine about it like a baby. I fit right in, and enjoy it, and do fairly well. I would never have fit into some sort of standard man-role in a pre-feminist society. I'm Rhett Butler in Gone with the Wind. And I imagine most of the guys getting laid these days are in the same boat.

Think of Hank Moody in Californication or the guys in Entourage. How would they have done in a pre-feminist society? They would have probably wound up in jail, or would have been ostracized in some way for sure.

If you're stuck in the past, well, you're not going to change the culture so you can either change yourself or whine to random people on the internet. I just don't understand the type of person to whine about things like this. I don't get that mentality. It seems very, very, very weak to me. And that weakness, more than feminism, is IMHO why those dudes aren't getting laid.

And look up the game "Ain't it Awful" in "Games People Play" by Eric Berne. It's the social game that all the guys who sit around complaining about "the good old days" participate in. I refuse.
 

Boilermaker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
1,353
Likes
76
#53
^^^^

I will print this post, frame it, put it on my wall, read it and salute it every morning I wake up.

This forum needs more Zarky's. We have plenty of depressed old men.
 

Danger

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
10,050
Likes
1,359
#54
Zarky and the Old Timers both want different things from their women.

The difference is, Zarky calls the men names and shames them for their preference, just like a good little feminist bot. The Old Guys just give their experience and advice.

If you're stuck in the past, well, you're not going to change the culture so you can either change yourself or whine to random people on the internet. I just don't understand the type of person to whine about things like this. I don't get that mentality. It seems very, very, very weak to me. And that weakness, more than feminism, is IMHO why those dudes aren't getting laid.
I must admit, I always find this kind of argument very perplexing. Does everyone here really think that it is not possible to be successful yet still complain about the problems you have had to overcome and continually have to deal with?

Just because you complain about something, does not mean you are failing at it. I b!tch all of the time about flakes, but I have done very well with women in my life. You kids needs to lose this "black or white" mentality.
 

Wilko

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
597
Likes
111
#55
I had an interesting experience about two months back. There was this trippy little girl, actually she was 35 or so and she had a rockabilly kind of thing going on, very cute. To be more accurate she had a 60's housewife thing happening, she was into the whole package, from the way she dressed to her preferred gender roles. Predictably she was a huge fan of Mad Men and who can blame her. That was her ideal, Mad Men without the cheating and the lying, sounds kind of boring right? Haha.

So anyway, we're fairly attracted to each other and she starts laying out what she's prepared to offer a man, what she's going to bring to the bargain. In her own words she wants to stay home, clean, iron, cook, sew, make dresses, make herself pretty when [he] comes home, get ravished most nights, plus a little kink and light ****. In return she wants her man to bear most of the financial burden, be faithful to her and treat her every now and again.

At 33 I have never, EVER had a woman offer me anything remotely like that. I was "educated" from early on not to expect that sort of thing, consequently I've never yearned for the kind of thing she was offering. Put that conditioning aside, I've remade and re-educated myself and what I want now is what I want. It still threw me for a huge spin! Did I want what she was offering? I'd never even considered an arrangement like that before.

As it turns out I wasn't that attracted to the idea, I just don't need or want a woman to do those kinds of things for me, and the idea of having to carry two people financially doesn't thrill me either (already done my share of that). I didn't pursue it, but it also transpired that she really wasn't able to deliver on much of it. She's got some ongoing chronic fatigue/depression, so it was pointless but it was VERY strange and interesting to be offered what my Grandpa probably had.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

zekko

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
11,514
Likes
3,281
#56
I find this interesting. This is a website that teaches you that being the alpha male and the leader will attract women, but then everyone complains about how the women aren't cooperating (flaking and such).
 

samspade

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
4,723
Likes
939
#57
zekko said:
I find this interesting. This is a website that teaches you that being the alpha male and the leader will attract women, but then everyone complains about how the women aren't cooperating (flaking and such).
That is a great point.

Perhaps that's been the biggest change since the golden days. Sitting around and complaining incredulously about the behavior of the opposite sex used to be the domain of the female.

So some women flake and behave poorly, moreso than 35 years ago. This is not my problem. Don't suffer fools gladly and you'll find you won't care about a lot of stupid behavior.

I do recommend American men explore other cultures - not as a means of "running away" from America, but to experience women who behave much more respectfully and with greater dignity. You needn't do this at the expense of enjoying American women, but it will open your eyes, that's all.
 

zekko

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
11,514
Likes
3,281
#58
samspade said:
So some women flake and behave poorly, moreso than 35 years ago.
Regarding the flaking, I think this might explain some of it:

You meet some girl in a loud club where you can't even hear her and you get her phone number. Then you avoid texting her or phoning her because you want to give the appearance of mystery and having a busy life. You have no interest in this girl other than banging her. Then when you finally arrange a meetup with her, you're surprised that she flakes. Why wouldn't she flake? What invested interest could she possibly have in you?
 

Boilermaker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
1,353
Likes
76
#59
Danger said:
Does everyone here really think that it is not possible to be successful yet still complain about the problems you have had to overcome and continually have to deal with?

Just because you complain about something, does not mean you are failing at it. I b!tch all of the time about flakes, but I have done very well with women in my life. You kids needs to lose this "black or white" mentality.
I don't see a black or white perspective here, to be honest. Complaining about something and being successful on that very thing are contradictory. Why are you complaining about it if you are successful with women? If you had ten times more dates for every woman that flaked on you, would you still come here and deliver tirades?

The point Zarky is stressing is that it wastes a whole lot of ENERGY and RESOURCES when a bunch of guys gets together and play this game. We are NOT productive this way. When I talk to an average guy these days; I strike by my favorite line before he starts whining. WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE? A lot of folks here at MM has Feminism. My friend Ozzy claims he can't get laid because he's losing hair. Another one thinks it's where he lives, and things will be better when he moves to California. One "fatalistic" guy thinks we are at the hands of fate and can't change anything anyway.

I am sick and tired of interacting with bitter men, I have nothing to learn from them.

We must strive for little increments, little changes, experiments. We must have ideas, tests, experiments, theories to go forward.

What would you tell me if I came to you and blamed my Yamaha for my lack of improvement in piano playing? Chess became a dull game because of the enormous success of computers. The fact that databases expanded and chess engines got better explains why I can't beat 10-year old boys in competitions anymore. How does it seem ? ... I could go on all day. I am good at rationalizing, like any other human being.

You can't be too successful and not love what you are doing. Women are willing to kill to be with you; but you are deeply affected by a few of them flaking on you ..
I am perplexed.
 

Chronocidal

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
242
Likes
23
#60
Boilermaker said:
If you had ten times more dates for every woman that flaked on you, would you still come here and deliver tirades?
A strawman. How many men ever are able to reach that level of skill in the first place? (And that's assuming the necessary demographics are available for the person to have sufficient quantity of available women of interest in the first place for such a thing.)

They very well might be delivering tirades, simply because they don't appreciate being disrespected. Flaking shows disrespect for the other person's time. And even if they've got another date the next day, no one enjoys having to drive out to another location for nothing.


Boilermaker said:
Women are willing to kill to be with you...
What do you mean?
 
Top