Good conversational skills & flirting on video ?

[BaronOfHair]

@Cheeky_James "Is this really where guys are at?"

Yep. What you describe(Opening with generic compliments, short and lame attempt at flirting, going into interview mode, asking heaps of basic boring questions, proposing a date and trying get contact details, following chicks up the street)is the dating and mating equivalent of men filming lengthy analyses of how Bruce Lee(who spent most of his very brief life on stage and on film sets)was the greatest warrior to ever live. And then offering viewers "education" on how they too can be just like Bruce, by performing jump kicks, learning to nunchuck, and speaking in all sorts of New Agey profundities

By contrast, video of a fella simply walking up to a gal, and saying: "I'm hosting an exhibit of Man Ray's early work tonight... You oughta stop by" is considerably LESS theatrical than watching someone drop an assailant via a single throat strike, then getting on with life. Thus, relatively few folks in the realms of either dating and self-defense offer such down and dirty tutelage

 

[Cheeky_James]

There are some nice infields on this channel.

@nicksaiz65 @Sega Genesis

Interesting channel this AG Hayden .

Re this vid above - Todd V has some good conversational stuff vs the average approach coaches.

His comments are pretty corny, but he can hold a convo longer at least.

The blonde girl is not showing much interest in him tho and it still feels like an interview…he’s doing lots of qualification indeed.

what do you guys think of Todd…




;

 

[nicksaiz65]

@nicksaiz65 @Sega Genesis

Interesting channel this AG Hayden .

Re this vid above - Todd V has some good conversational stuff vs the average approach coaches.

His comments are pretty corny, but he can hold a convo longer at least.

The blonde girl is not showing much interest in him tho and it still feels like an interview…he’s doing lots of qualification indeed.

what do you guys think of Todd…




;

Todd is interesting. A lot of the stuff he says feels cheesy, gamey, or verbose, but I think he has a lot of good tips too. I feel like he’s good to get some tips from but not model your game around.

I think AG Hayden has better game though.

That said, I do enjoy this video from Todd. I’ve never seen any PUA post videos showing dealing with a two set solo. This infield is pretty cool.

 

[Sega Genesis]

But..he describes himself as a”borderline autistic , monotone , introverted , technical /nerd” type guy in his theory videos.
he looks more like a tall, athletic jock type to me .
This is a bit suspicious.
Plus that monotone voice is hard to listen to.
Maybe it’s sexy to chicks .. @Sega Genesis ..opinions?

Apologies CJ, I just noticed you tagged me.

I watched Josef Smith's video and I like AG Hayden's vibe/energy better. Not sure why, just a feeling. Lol

I don't try to break it down or analyze too much. I just go with what and how I feel when talking to a guy.

Listening to this Josef dude I was bored. I had trouble getting through the whole thing. If it were me he was talking to, I would have politely excused myself from the conversation way before it ended in the video.

Not so with AG Hayden. But every woman is different so don't judge by me. Obviously the girl he was talking to enjoyed his vibe and style.

I will comment on one noticeable difference though.

AG Hayen opens with a direct, upbeat and positive statement - you're cute! It'a all about his delivery/vibe/energy when making the comment.

Versus Josef Smith opening with "hey excuse me, I noticed you walking by and thought you looked really confident." His delivery sounded a bit rehearsed and dry IMO. His vibe/energy seemed off. To ME.

It's a subtle difference and may not be all that significant; again no rhyme or reason just a feeling..

 

[Cheeky_James]

Apologies CJ, I just noticed you tagged me.

I watched Josef Smith's video and I like AG Hayden's vibe/energy better. Not sure why, just a feeling. Lol

I don't try to break it down or analyze too much. I just go with what and how I feel when talking to a guy.

Listening to this Josef dude I was bored. I had trouble getting through the whole thing. If it were me he was talking to, I would have politely excused myself from the conversation way before it ended in the video.

Not so with AG Hayden. But every woman is different so don't judge by me. Obviously the girl he was talking to enjoyed his vibe and style.

I will comment on one noticeable difference though.

AG Hayen opens with a direct, upbeat and positive statement - you're cute! It'a all about his delivery/vibe/energy when making the comment.

Versus Josef Smith opening with "hey excuse me, I noticed you walking by and thought you looked really confident." His delivery sounded a bit rehearsed and dry IMO. His vibe/energy seemed off. To ME.

It's a subtle difference and may not be all that significant; again no rhyme or reason just a feeling..

I think your responding to AGs tonality tbh,
When he repeats his “you’re cute “ line, his tone has a bit of snap to it. “You’re CUTE”.
And his next question has authority tone to it,
“Who are you here with?”
Girls def respond to an authority tonality ime.
My lil player friend had that tone when opening,
And so does Julien Blanc,,,

maybe that’s the feeling you mean…?
like a submissive & aroused feeling.
Yknow like “ eeeeeeee! I think I’m about to get WET!!”

you dirty, dirty …

 

[Sega Genesis]

CJ, if by tonality (i.e. his voice expressing emotion and giving meaning to his words) then yes, very similar to his "vibe" and energy which I mentioned in my post.

Nothing new about that, I think most women feel this way.

Re getting "wet" lol, I don't think to myself "I'm about to get wet." Either I get wet or I don't it's nothing I am consciously aware of before it happens.

When I talk to a guy I either feel attracted or I don't. I don't pay much attention to his "game."

Like AG Hayden even says in his videos, it's not about game or strategies. If you're calibrated and authentic and able to have a fun natural free-flowing conversation with a girl you just met, you're halfway there.

I found Josef Smith's tonality and energy boring and stiff. Thats all and JMO.

 

[Cheeky_James]

CJ, if by tonality (i.e. his voice expressing emotion and giving meaning to his words) then yes, very similar to his "vibe" and energy which I mentioned in my post.

Nothing new about that, I think most women feel this way.

Re getting "wet" lol, I don't think to myself "I'm about to get wet." Either I get wet or I don't it's nothing I am consciously aware of before it happens.

When I talk to a guy I either feel attracted or I don't. I don't pay much attention to his "game."

Like AG Hayden even says in his videos, it's not about game or strategies. If you're calibrated and authentic and able to have a fun natural free-flowing conversation with a girl you just met, you're halfway there.

I found Josef Smith's tonality and energy boring and stiff. Thats all and JMO.

Oh right. Thanks for the correction on the wetness.
Btw out of curiousity. How quick can the wetness commence? On sight , like across a room before the male has approached ? Or is it triggered when when he’s up close and in person…when he touches the female .. or what.

Yeah I kinda had that feeling about Smith,
He talks extra slow and almost like he’s forcefully tryna drop his voice into it’s lowest register.
His theory vids are great content , but he’s hard to listen to .

re your comment
“When I talk to a guy I either feel attracted or I don't. I don't pay much attention to his "game."

oh oh. This is not good news for a lot of dudes who believe Game makes the difference.
Careful now!

and yes vibe and energy pretty much equals voice tonality (in my book).
this is a good example of 2 contrasting “vibes “ with Smith vs Hayden. Thanks

 

[Sega Genesis]

Btw out of curiousity. How quick can the wetness commence? On sight , like across a room before the male has approached ?

^^Every woman is different and for some women, yes on sight!

For ME? I need to feel (there's that word again LOL) some sort of mental or emotional connection through conversation first before my sexual attraction fully takes hold.

But still doesn't mean I'm gonna jump in bed with him.. Read @tksniper recent thread about social conditioning, attraction and trust.

Again just me, I am just one woman. There are plenty of women that have no problem immediately acting on their sexual attraction and jumping into bed with a new guy she just met.

 

[Cheeky_James]

@nicksaiz65 and @Sega Genesis

This AG Hayden guy is making me LOL now.
He’s really stretching the term “model” here
she’s awfully short for a model.
A HAND model perhaps.

he’s likely just another grifter /fraud based on the evidence I’ve dug up so far …but anyway.
I’ve a suspicion hes an ex- RSD instructor.
And he’s passport maxxing here - looks to be in Asia somewhere.. lol

But just watching this approach, it’s clear to me using cheesy pickup lines is better than going direct + leading with a compliment that’s for sure.
At least it may get a laugh and some interest , if it’s a clever line.

I like these guys lines below. —->>>
Actual belly laughs

@BPH - could you make these pickup lines work ?
also , what do u make of this AG Hayden - is he a grifter / fraudster..

 

[Cheeky_James]

Yeah been watching a lot of this new school infield … it’s all garbage.

I don’t see anyone out there capturing any kind of intensity or sexual vibe on camera.. except Scotty GLL. He is literally the only coach guy I see creating a flirty and sexual vibe in an infield.

Any coach opening with compliments & nice guy interview mode = either a fraud or a fail imo.
Period.
That sh1t does not work..

 

[DonJefe19]

I never found in-field videos all that helpful when it came to improving game. The videos were interesting to watch but nothing outside of entertaining. There's some aspects of the interaction that either you have to experience on your own or you have to be a fly on the wall while another guy is doing the approach IRL (not in a video)

 

[Cheeky_James]

I never found in-field videos all that helpful when it came to improving game. The videos were interesting to watch but nothing outside of entertaining. There's some aspects of the interaction that either you have to experience on your own or you have to be a fly on the wall while another guy is doing the approach IRL (not in a video)

yes. This.
I’ve reviewed so many over the years.
The reason they are not helpful is that the majority (say 70%) is straight up fake/staged/fraud with hired actresses.
Source : facts, by now.

Maybe 20% could be real* ( even thats debateable tbh) but is super short , either on a highlight reel or a breakdown video . Like just a few minutes inside the full interaction, without full context. Just showing short interactions, sloppy makeouts or number closes, that probably went nowhere,
Also these were often buried inside big video courses.
Source : the old RSD infields mainly, plus the players back in the day.

There’s probably useful stuff out there somewhere.
Some of the old “pickup tube” looked real. But super noisy. I guess that’s about the size of it,

So yeah. What you said. lol.

In an aside , but related to infield footage and dating coaches/ companies.. in terms of the business models , the old days of wide scale Bootcamps based on the marketing using the infields , really must have been the golden era for money making. They really must have been RAKING the money in , those companies like RSD , Love Systems etc.
With their $5k weekenders, then weekly/monthly immersion programs and ‘pickup mansions’. lol.

the new guys seem to be doing similar but running a smaller ‘Ponzi Scheme’ . Perhaps taking some of the clients money and hiring girls to plant at the bootcamp venues. That’s the best case scenario tho. It’s usually just tell the client to approach and ghost him/ give him the runaround for the night.

I see AG Hayden holds his bootcamp in Las Vagas.
LV is teeming with h00kers.lol

Grifter.

 

[characternote]

Yes, that avery guy has been around for a while now.
He's not an ex RSD instructor. But that other dude (who used to make vids with him...Charismaking or something?) IS.

Avery has become a passport bro recently which is hilarious, as so many 'PUA's' seem to do it! They realise their 'game' isn't cutting it and they need some other advantage lol. And they know that most of their audience is just too dim to realise what is going on and how that changes the landscape. But he doesn't care. He makes a very very nice wage from grifting. As most of them do.

His 'game' and success rate is basically the same as any other guy with his level of looks and his age. despite him being a 'coach'. From time to time he lucks out and approaches an average looking girl who is down to bang in Vegas or whatever. Yet, he makes money selling the idea he has some sort of 'skill' as if he's doing and saying very special 'attraction building' things that other guys wouldn't dream of thinking up (like the amazing, 'so, what's your name?', 'so what brings you to Vegas', lines lol). I've always found if funny how most PUA is 'teaching' literally basic human social exchange! But they teach is as if they are teaching quantum physics and giving the listener information they didn't otherwise have. An 'edge' over the random guy in the street. Massive grift in general, but there's still a tonne of money to be made, espcially for the guys who got in at the ground floor and managed to build a brand of sorts. I remember someone who wasn't even THAT well known (compared to RSD etc) called 'vikingKing' I tihnkj? He made a youtube vid showing how much he made with actual statements from paypal and stuff and it was nuts! Between his coaching, the youtube money from views, and his PUA programs/courses, he was making like 10k+ per week lol. So I dare to think what the bigger names were making!!

 

[Cheeky_James]

Yes, that avery guy has been around for a while now.
He's not an ex RSD instructor. But that other dude (who used to make vids with him...Charismaking or something?) IS.

Avery has become a passport bro recently which is hilarious, as so many 'PUA's' seem to do it! They realise their 'game' isn't cutting it and they need some other advantage lol. And they know that most of their audience is just too dim to realise what is going on and how that changes the landscape. But he doesn't care. He makes a very very nice wage from grifting. As most of them do.

His 'game' and success rate is basically the same as any other guy with his level of looks and his age. despite him being a 'coach'. From time to time he lucks out and approaches an average looking girl who is down to bang in Vegas or whatever. Yet, he makes money selling the idea he has some sort of 'skill' as if he's doing and saying very special 'attraction building' things that other guys wouldn't dream of thinking up (like the amazing, 'so, what's your name?', 'so what brings you to Vegas', lines lol). I've always found if funny how most PUA is 'teaching' literally basic human social exchange! But they teach is as if they are teaching quantum physics and giving the listener information they didn't otherwise have. An 'edge' over the random guy in the street. Massive grift in general, but there's still a tonne of money to be made, espcially for the guys who got in at the ground floor and managed to build a brand of sorts. I remember someone who wasn't even THAT well known (compared to RSD etc) called 'vikingKing' I tihnkj? He made a youtube vid showing how much he made with actual statements from paypal and stuff and it was nuts! Between his coaching, the youtube money from views, and his PUA programs/courses, he was making like 10k+ per week lol. So I dare to think what the bigger names were making!!

woah man. $10K a week.. that’s $520k p.a. Unreal.
RSD Tyler is worth &15M on my last google search.
And still can’t get a decent chick for a GF.
The 20+ years Grandmaster of Game.
…Brutal.

I did notice Avery seemed to have a lot of short Asian girls in his videos which was a big red flag.

Teaching Quantum Physics ..lmao. So true…
Some of them like Todd V especially , go into some serious gymnastics . (all the RSD crew did really.)
Make it as complex as possible. On purpose. That was the thing.

Man, Todd V’s program ‘Women’ was the most convoluted piece of sh1t I ever watched.
Or half watched. I just gave up.

How about John Anthony and his escorts or his mate Bradicus , who got banned from Mexico. FML.

The list goes on and on

 

[crowolf]

I mean, what kind of approach are you expecting to see or happen? Some white knight story plot line?

The whole idea of the cold approach is to meet the new woman, have some fun/light banter, flirt a bit, have a bit of a normal conversation, and get her contact to arrange a date, where things get deeper.

Maybe you are overcomplicating it.

Surely there are silly and low effort infields out there. But even the real thing is not that complicated. Check out Social Stoic. He is overgaming a bit in my opinion, but still knows what he is doing.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I mean, what kind of approach are you expecting to see or happen? Some white knight story plot line?

The whole idea of the cold approach is to meet the new woman, have some fun/light banter, flirt a bit, have a bit of a normal conversation, and get her contact to arrange a date, where things get deeper.

Maybe you are overcomplicating it.

Surely there are silly and low effort infields out there. But even the real thing is not that complicated. Check out Social Stoic. He is overgaming a bit in my opinion, but still knows what he is doing.

well.. check again the title of my thread.
I generally agree with what you described as being the general content of a cold approach. (Except the last part of getting her contact details)

but the above is rarely what happens in any infield examples. So I gotta call fake on them, cos they don’t reflect the reality of a good pickup interaction ime.

as for the last part , the number close.
Number closes and later dates are not my goal tbh.

I’m aiming for a meet-to-lay on the same day (ideally) .
So that’s an approach -> instadate, -> take her to the bedroom (or wherever) in about 3-5 hours of a much longer ‘seduction’ interaction. Which is definitely a different process with much more convo required and a build up of flirting and sexual vibe, escalation, bounce. etc etc

Imo, short interactions and number closing … ain’t sh1t tbh.

But anyways,
I’ve seen social stoic, the guy w the glasses, who sometimes looks to be sitting in a wheelchair in his videos.

I watched a video of him picking up a “hottie”.
That video is shot from behind and the woman is wearing a big parka/ puffa jacket , almost completely covering her body and head too. lol.
cmon man.
It’s is “faith based “ that she is a hottie. lol. There’s no actual evidence in the video.

Plus - the girls in the thumbnails for his videos , are not the girls in the acfual video(!). The thumbnails are different, hotter girls.
so 2 serious red flags for him.

His banter is pretty great sure , but like you said - it seems over done. it’s seems like a negotiation - not good.

So if it’s staged /not real ..then what’s the point in studying. It’s not real? It’s a staged “win”.

if the reality is - he actually gets rejected by a girl like that..over and over ..then his game, his convo and teachings… are worthless?

I want to simplify my approach model tbh
and see some examples of just good real flirt and decent natural improvised convo.

not a fake interaction with scripted conversation.

I will check it out again more in depth tho thanks.
The red flags are not a good sign but…just sayin.

Honest Signals had a pretty real looking infield if I recall. I’ll check him out again.
He does look Tall tho.

These things do matter tbh.

 

[nicksaiz65]

@nicksaiz65 and @Sega Genesis

This AG Hayden guy is making me LOL now.
He’s really stretching the term “model” here
she’s awfully short for a model.
A HAND model perhaps.

he’s likely just another grifter /fraud based on the evidence I’ve dug up so far …but anyway.
I’ve a suspicion hes an ex- RSD instructor.
And he’s passport maxxing here - looks to be in Asia somewhere.. lol

But just watching this approach, it’s clear to me using cheesy pickup lines is better than going direct + leading with a compliment that’s for sure.
At least it may get a laugh and some interest , if it’s a clever line.

I like these guys lines below. —->>>
Actual belly laughs

@BPH - could you make these pickup lines work ?
also , what do u make of this AG Hayden - is he a grifter / fraudster..

I just posted the channel cause some of the infields are actually decent conversations, not as an endorsement.

Infield’s just a resource anyway. FRs and theory are fine too.

Same day lay footage on YouTube is kinda unrealistic. Most guys aren’t filming that even when it happens. Doesn’t mean the convo clips are useless.

Hayden’s game still looks better than the usual interview mode stuff. Not saying to copy him.

 

[DonJefe19]

Maybe 20% could be real* ( even thats debateable tbh) but is super short , either on a highlight reel or a breakdown video . Like just a few minutes inside the full interaction, without full context. Just showing short interactions, sloppy makeouts or number closes, that probably went nowhere,
Also these were often buried inside big video courses.
Source : the old RSD infields mainly, plus the players back in the day.

Even with videos of coaches who are being genuine, personally, I don't learn much from the footage. And it goes back to what I was mentioning earlier - there's a lot going on during the interaction that you have to experience it yourself. Some of the good ones (@BPH, Neil Strauss, etc...) had a lot of prep work done prior to the interaction that you generally can't see or sense in the footage.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Even with videos of coaches who are being genuine, personally, I don't learn much from the footage. And it goes back to what I was mentioning earlier - there's a lot going on during the interaction that you have to experience it yourself. Some of the good ones (@BPH, Neil Strauss, etc...) had a lot of prep work done prior to the interaction that you generally can't see or sense in the footage.

I’d say the advantage of a video is so you can show things that are hard to communicate over text: like body language and tonality. But yeah: nothing beats the field.