Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Ghosted by yet another woman, I don't get it.

sangheilios

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You delivered a fvcking pizza to her dude. Why do you think she "REALLY "wants to go out with you? Are you a 10 in looks? Unless you're a 9 or a 10, *most* girls aren't going to be *jumping* at the chance to go out on a first date with you. Some will be curious enough to give you a first date to see how you make them feel but brother, you delivered a pizza to her..... Seriously. You have some sort of entitlement delusions that the girls you meet should have immediate pre-date high interest in you, with zero game on your part, so much so that they start texting you in seconds of number exchange.
I was giving a comical example of how a woman going from excited to total disinterest would respond to something like this. Again, I had told you guys that she quickly responded back to me, again which indicated she obviously was flattered and enjoyed the interaction. If there was low interest she never would have responded at all.

Anyway, I don't even know why I'm continuing to discuss something that happened almost 48 hours ago.
 

Spaz

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Escalation has to be a movie moment.
When a man is leading, this is how it falls into place.

I'm so far removed from this that I can't even remember the last time I did it but it works to get dates.
 

sangheilios

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I'm curious as to how many guys here can dress up like a low status, pizza boy and get an attractive, 20-something woman to agree to go out on a date with them in the time it takes to exchange a pizza at her doorstep. I would bet 95% of those guys would FAIL.

But he did it.
She said yes.
She even confirmed name and contact info with that first text he sent.

Why are you guys so hung up on this pizza thing and bagging on him for it?

Half of you guys would be bragging about this feat if you were the ones pulling it off, no?

Clearly something went wrong after the interaction. And because the exchange was so simplistic, it should be obvious (short of her being vindictive and just f-cking with him) that he got too excited/eager, she picked up on that very quickly and that had her second guessing everything very quickly.

It was only then that his "low status" became the hindrance.

This makes perfect sense in scenarios where a woman will have an interest that can be fickle and temped due to extremely minimal comfort, minimal emotional investment established, etc.
Agree.



Agree.



I can agree with this as well. However, I see little reason to dissuade a man from enjoying moments of success, particularly those where even seasoned men will often fail, simply because he messed up somewhere further down the line.



This is true. But that is not what happened, IMO. She didn't just give a number to make him go away. She agreed to a date and then confirmed her name, contact and interest by responding to his first text. I, and many men on this site, often initiate a text with a woman upon the number exchange just to provide them with your number. I do it often. Women text me immediately when I'm the one giving out my number first. This is normal and routine. Seems to me that is all that happened there.

Had she just wanted him to go away, she most likely would not have responded to his initial text at all.



Again, I agree. But it was his second text that did this. Not the first. This is the moment in which I believe it went downhill very quickly for him, and I have said as much as you just did: It was in that moment that his status overshadowed his success. Yes, being the pizza guy was a factor all along, but he had overcome that hurdle only to sabotage it shortly thereafter.


And as I said, he had already overcome it. His problem is that he let that status reinject itself to prominence by the mistake(s) he made.

Had he only been able to get this girl to meet him for a quick drink, he would have easily had the time necessary not only to shed the low-status pizza guy thing with a degree, more schooling, owning a home, stock investments, etc, but his extra money making gig would have painted him as more ambitious and hungry. He could have spun it as an advantage later on.

All he needed was more time.

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have issues to work out, perhaps even very significant ones.

I'm not saying he should continue pursuing pizza guy game. lol.

I'm not saying he shouldn't pursue other avenues of improvement and opportunity, or even stop, as you suggest, from trying to score from this low status position when it is not necessary for him to do so.

All I'm saying is that I see no reason to rip a guy apart for something he actually did right. It serves no purpose.
This is pretty much spot on.

I think there are a lot of people on here that are all "theory" and don't actually go out and do any of the stuff that I've posted about on here. As you mentioned, I have a feeling few if any of the other posters on here would actually be able to pull off what I had done the other night, even though in the end it didn't work in my favor.

Sure, I may have made a mistake by coming across as too eager and excited by already trying to set up a date. However, with a woman who is highly interested and has gotten to know me, where there is comfort and rapport developed, I don't think she would ever see that as an issue. With that said, this woman that I delivered to did not at all know me outside of the couple of very brief conversational exchanges we had. I was probably at her door for less than 90 seconds, which is a very short period of time no that I think about it. To her I was just a random delivery guy that happened to be appealing to her physically but outside of that she knows nothing about me.

Given the context of this specific situation, I should have perhaps waited to text her back or had exchanged a few basic text conversations to build some sort of comfort with her before asking for a date.

The vast majority of women that I have tried to make something happen with I had largely met in very cold and spontaneous situations like these, which are naturally going to have a VERY low success rate in general.
 

DreamAgain

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OP, you did a couple things wrong, but everything is fixable so don't worry. Not with this one maybe, but for future interactions for sure.

1. Should have waited two days to text.
2. Need to convey you have more going for you besides delivering pizza. Never mention anything about your pizza job, except only in a playful, nonchalant manner. As other posters have said, status matters.
3. Content of your texts need to be more interesting. You seem like a smart enough guy, so apply more effort in your messages to be witty. Use something in your conversation with her as a starting point for a new conversation. Hypothetically what I would have sent:

You: "Hey "girl's name" it's sanghelios from a few days ago, how has eating cold leftover pizza been going?
Her: "Hahaha I ate it that night, it was actually really good!"
You: "Really? Usually they're terrible that's why I can't wait to quit this side gig...it must have tasted better than usual since I held it, people tell me I have some sort of magic touch..."
Her: "Whaaat? Who says that, you're making that up."
Me: Well I'm going to PT school soon so pretty much everyone...I guess you're not in the loop then? I'm disappointed..."
Her: "something something etc etc."

And so the conversation continues.

I just cooked this up on the fly so you can do better of course with more time, but I hope you get the picture.
 

fastlife

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@sangheilios First you've gotten a lot of good advice ITT.

Here's my take: It's 2019. If this was 2012 or 2013, there's a good chance this number would mean something. But in 2019, numbers are mostly garbage. There's too much stimuli on a girl's phone--especially if she's >25--for it to be an avenue through which to make an emotional impact. Plus, she's intentionally consuming all this stuff on her phone specifically to alter her emotional state.

So, no matter how awesome you are, you're looking at a low probability play.

When you meet a girl, here's what you have to do:
  • Push for an instadate, keep things light & sexual, and try to direct that to your place or hers (probably impossible in this situation).
  • Time-bridge hard when you're in person for drinks that night (probably would've been your best play here). Play off the pizza boy sh1t and qualify her hard/get her chasing: [Invite her for drinks]. "You're just using me for my tip money." "You think I'm just like every other pizza boy." Etc., etc.
  • Get a number and push for a meetup later that night.
  • Get her number and try to take her on a date?
Bro, girls don't date anymore. Why would you take a girl out? You don't know her, she hasn't earned the right to you spending money or even being seen in public wit her she has to get ready, etc. Your main advantage in this situation is that you are low status, so you don't have any provider vibes going on. If she wants to spend time with you it's just for ONE thing. So play to your strengths. My all-time highest converting 'date' is just inviting a girl over for a glass of wine at my apartment and making her promise to not put any moves on me. If she flakes, I never left my house. Low investment, and it works, since she doesn't have to worry about social judgment, it shows you're used to girls coming over with no effort on your part, and you never have to worry about being put in the BF zone.

Also, as far as waiting to text, I always text as soon as I get the number. My next text, probably an hour or two later, is pushing to hang out that night. If she ghosts, I'll text her at my convenience later in the week. Spike her emotions, push for a meetup that day. Keep it minimal. Getting a number isn't a huge deal. Flaking is super common--even for sets where a girl is head over heals for you. Waiting to text is overplayed: she's read about that in every episode of Cosmo, everyone has their phone on them at all times, it gives you an excuse to be passive instead of going out to meet other girls, attention spans are short.
 

marmel75

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That guy obviously didn’t know what in the blue hell he was doing.
Yeah that's like 70% of guys tho...they far outnumber the ones who do know what is going on.
 

sangheilios

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Quick update for everyone on here.......she ended up texting me back earlier this evening. She is going to be out of town for a couple weeks but she said she wanted to go out when she comes back.

End thread, thanks to everyone who provided solid input, definitely some things I'll keep in mind in the future.
 

marmel75

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I can honestly say I’ve never heard about or seen a man get violent because a woman rejected him. Now I hear about women staying in abusive relationships all the time and refusing to leave, and I’m just like you’re stupid if you put up with that.

I had a woman reject me over a loud speaker when I was 15 at the skating rink. All my friends were there and heard it. Talk about embarrassed, but I never cussed her out or did anything to her. I saw this same girl a couple years ago and boy did she get fat, she came up to me to apologize a million times about something that happened 21 years prior and then proceeded to ask me out.lol
Really? There was just an article on yahoo about a guy who went and got a gun, came back and shot and killed a woman after she rejected him.

People are psychotic these days so I can see why women would be more scared than ever to tell a guy no.
 

marmel75

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Yes....I know. Like you said......that's literally it.

And you see NO PROBLEM in all this?

In your first post,in the 4th paragraph,you said......




You said "chronic ghosting over and over". So I take it this wasn't the first time this happened.......

or the second
or the third.....
or 4th....5th,6th,etc,etc. So everywhere YOU go,"chronic ghosting" also shows up.

So the girl may be different,but it's the same guy (YOU) over and over again.

One time it might be "Susie",the next "Linda"....."Amanda","April",Lucy","Amber","Ginger","Melissa","Rachel"....on and on and on and on.......it may be a THOUSAND DIFFERENT GIRLS.....but the ONE CONSTANT......the ONE THING that NEVER CHANGES and is ALWAYS THERE.......is YOU. And when YOU are there,"chronic ghosting" isn't far behind.


Sir......do you think maybe the problem.....is YOU? If this problem shows up everywhere YOU go,do you think it might be time to take a look at how YOU INTERACT with women and see if there's something YOU can change?

You keep seeming to want to blame the women,accusing them of "leading you on". Not every girl....just the ones YOU come in contact with. Every girl you try to talk to,"Oh.....well she led me on". Sir....do you know you can't have a leader without a follower?


You're the MAN here......YOU should be leading. If EVERY GIRL you come in contact with seems to be "leading you on",maybe you ought to check your MANHOOD card.


Go check yourself for a second....have a look in the mirror. See if you can see what the rest of the forum CLEARLY SEES about you.
Ive said the same thing on multiple occasions...its never him, always the woman.
 

Spaz

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Ive said the same thing on multiple occasions...its never him, always the woman.
He's an intellectual, they're born slower in the sphere of social interactions.

A sacrifice to bring forth their intellectualism.

What comes naturally to you or me will be dissected and assigned a rational thought by him but even then he will miss most of the shades of a particular emotional expression.

A single emotional response can have plenty of nuances depending on a situation.

This confuses him as he doesn't sees or feels it, he is only able to memorised it through rationality and thus is limited.
 

Spaz

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I have a cousin who is an intellectual. We spent the July 4 the weekend at a creek house. It was actually 3 creek houses right in front of a river that you can swim in. Really beautiful setting. The people, however, were a different story.

At some point I was acting too dominant and a woman tried to neg me. I automatically put her in her place (which strangely turned her on. I think she was just happy she got my attention). But then like 5 beta orbiters tried to get me to conform to her. I openly called them beta cucks and told them how their supplicating behavior will never impress women. They couldn't look me in the eye because they knew it was true.

The sad thing was, this woman was dating one of my cousins. But she was acting like a complete attention wh0re, gathering beta orbiters, negging the alpha, and turning herself on in the process. I guess that's what women do to get off these days. Even ones with boyfriends that are present.

The next day my intellectual cousin thought I was being a bit harsh and asked me if i knew who the woman was. I told him that I don't give a damn who she is. Who she is is irrelevant. If someone acts entitled, I will put her in her place. It took me about two hours to explain these social concepts to him:

-The person who stands up for himself is most likely to get ostrasized. Especially in the presence of an attention wh0re and beta cucks. But he has to be unreactive and reframe his environment.

-Most guys are beta cucks who act disengenuous because they want to get laid or validation. They will throw you under the bus just to try to impress the woman. But the woman is actually attracted to the lone maverick who doesn't try to impress anyone or care about what people think.

-Most women are attention wh0res and offer no value to the interaction besides seeing how much attention and validation they can extract by manipulation and using one guy against another. Alot of women are so insecure that they would rather keep their 9 betas than submit to the alpha because of all that ego validation. It's beyond sex and romance for entitled women. It's about ego validation.

-The interaction I was in was completely phoney. Just like most social interactions. There's a reason why most people can't stand family gatherings. We are forced to interact with people we didn't choose, lol. And we are forced to respect as$holes and attention wh0res just because someone is dating someone who is related to us.

After explaining this all to him, he finally admitted that this was what he expected all along but was just testing me because he was unsure of what he was observing. Almost as if his reality is so stuck in the matrix, it was hard for him to see the blinding light of truth.

It was hard for him to accept the manipulation and ego games that was going on amongst adults. He lives in a world of petty romance and the Queen Bee is his goddess.

So he tested me to make sure he wasn't seeing things. And I stood my ground. The now he realized some horrifying truths..that most women are a complete watse of time, manipulative, ruthless when it comes to extracting ego validation, inject themselves into the interaction for their vanity only, and offer absolutely nothing to the conversation. They just sit there and judge. They either judge you or the moment for not being entertaining enough. He also realized that most guys are spineless cucks who will throw their own fellow man under the bus just for a little bit of validation. There is no loyalty amongst cucks.

In the end, he came to the conclusion that the entire weekend was a complete waste of time besides being able to spend time with the kids (nephews, nieces) simply because kids act with more integrity.
In another thread I've mentioned that passives (intellectuals and expressives) are driven by 70% ego and 30% determination.

That's the normal range, but those in the genius level shall be driven much higher by their ego, perhaps going as much as 90% ego driven and just 10% determination.

My definition of ego = narratives one makes in his life and the pursuit or adherence of it.

In the genius mode....

The expressives will create a multihue of egos or life stories within the overall picture of their own reality, pretty little fantastic fantasies that they struggle to meet simply because there's so many.

That's how great artists, Pua's, actors, musicians, singers, etc are born and yet still feel unfulfilled as they could have dozens of egos to fulfil.

The intellectuals will do the same but their story is one of rationality, space, time etc to be consumed by searching for answers, the more they know the more they seek because one solved puzzle opens up another can of puzzles to be solved.

Both are dreamers within their own minds, one in fantasy and the other in rationality.

The opposite holds true to the dominants (doers and motivators).

With 70% determination and 30% ego for the normal dominant.

The dominants has less or a simple life story, hence the lesser drama, its mainly rooted in being excellent on one singularity.

The motivators seeks power and thus expands his thinking to think of the impossible. Most will end up as CEO's as they go about conquering the impossible.

The doers seeks perfection, the natural perfectionist, not in looks or fame but in his personal abilities, most are incredible engineers, gifted warriors, builders, sportsman's etc. They will flawlessly find the shortest most efficient route to achieve something. What we see all around us are one way or the other made by them, rockets, great machines, you name it they're made it.

Each of those I named above plays a symbiotic role to the other, the expressives provides the entertainment or drama to us all, the intellectuals provide us with all the formula's, the doers builds what the motivators of the world comes up with.

But then women are made up of all those traits listed above, with one being more dominant then the rest but never reaching the level of genius, this doesn't make them stupid as this gives them an incredible edge to manipulate situations where a man is absent in a particular quadrant, even if a woman is in an intellectual quadrant she will have traits of the expressives too, you can guess how easily she could emotionally manipulate an intellectual.

In the end women are just multitaskers and their desire to manipulate men is just born out of limitations that's naturally and biologically placed on them.

Long post but this is more for ur benefit and if you think deeper into the summary I wrote here you'll be so far ahead then the rest of humanity, this knowledge alone gives you an immense power of influence when applied.
 

Robert28

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Really? There was just an article on yahoo about a guy who went and got a gun, came back and shot and killed a woman after she rejected him.

People are psychotic these days so I can see why women would be more scared than ever to tell a guy no.
I’ve had girls do some crazy stuff to me but that doesn’t make me gun shy around ALL women because a few went crazy on me. Women just don’t want to give you a straight answer, it’s been that way since I’ve been alive. This isn’t anything new and it wasn’t ever about “oh we can’t say no flat out because the guy might do something bad to us”, it’s just a convenient excuse to answer for their shady behavior. Some guys do come on too strong, no denying that, but a lot of women also will string a guy along without any intentions of dating him too.
 
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