Ghosted by yet another woman, I don't get it.

DEEZEDBRAH

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She just had a medium to low interest level, with your limited interaction its normal imo.

Dont take this personal, you did good asking her out.
But imo you need to get better at spotting body language.
+1

Its why you XYZ location. Time and date. Any ambiguity you next her.

I hit it rotten and I will next hee for female logic.
 

sangheilios

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Yes....I know. Like you said......that's literally it.

And you see NO PROBLEM in all this?

In your first post,in the 4th paragraph,you said......




You said "chronic ghosting over and over". So I take it this wasn't the first time this happened.......

or the second
or the third.....
or 4th....5th,6th,etc,etc. So everywhere YOU go,"chronic ghosting" also shows up.

So the girl may be different,but it's the same guy (YOU) over and over again.

One time it might be "Susie",the next "Linda"....."Amanda","April",Lucy","Amber","Ginger","Melissa","Rachel"....on and on and on and on.......it may be a THOUSAND DIFFERENT GIRLS.....but the ONE CONSTANT......the ONE THING that NEVER CHANGES and is ALWAYS THERE.......is YOU. And when YOU are there,"chronic ghosting" isn't far behind.


Sir......do you think maybe the problem.....is YOU? If this problem shows up everywhere YOU go,do you think it might be time to take a look at how YOU INTERACT with women and see if there's something YOU can change?

You keep seeming to want to blame the women,accusing them of "leading you on". Not every girl....just the ones YOU come in contact with. Every girl you try to talk to,"Oh.....well she led me on". Sir....do you know you can't have a leader without a follower?


You're the MAN here......YOU should be leading. If EVERY GIRL you come in contact with seems to be "leading you on",maybe you ought to check your MANHOOD card.


Go check yourself for a second....have a look in the mirror. See if you can see what the rest of the forum CLEARLY SEES about you.
Every single woman I've been ghosted by had been around circumstances that were all fairly unique and different from one another.

In late April/Early May of this year I had been ghosted by a woman who I gone out with 3 times, not once but 3 times. I couldn't figure out what that was about so I gave up on women for a while. I feel that one was afraid of getting pumped and dumped, something just felt off about the whole thing.

In June, about a month ago, I went on my first ever tinder date, pretty sure I was pseudo catfished because she looked VERY different from the photos. I found her to be not just unappealing physical but painful to interact with, she ghosted me as well but I'm not really that shocked by that given how I clearly didn't want to be there lol.

In January of this year I had a woman ask me for my number when I was out for the night with my friends, she literally approached me and introduced herself and asked for my number with no interaction at all between us. A few days later we met up for a date, I wasn't all that into her but I still had a good time.....never heard back from her after that, which really wasn't a big deal.

Last fall/late summer I met a couple bitches at my gym that literally lead me on for no reason. One I had approached, talked to for a bit and then the next time she saw me she asked me out on a date that night. She flaked and I never heard back from her but she continued to approach me and flirt with me. For example- She was sitting on the leg press machine and she literally took my hand and put it on her thigh when we were discussing her yoga pants. Just an attention *****, she did that to tons of guys out here and is for real a psycho *****.....I could tell you a lot of stories about her that I've heard from other people lol.

The other woman I approached after she pseudo broke the ice with me. I asked for her number, which was when she told me she had a bf, so I just told her it was nice to meet her and left. Every single time she was there she would go out of her way to approach me, engage with me, etc. I asked her out a second time a couple months later, got turned down and then she stopped approaching me/talking to me, which is honestly what should have happened the first time I had asked her out.

June of last year I had gone out on a mini golfing date with a girl I had met when I was out with my friends for the night. We were at a bar and we ended up talking to one another for over an hour. She gives me her number and the very next day she had sent me all these texts, so we made plans to meet up the following day when we were both available. On our date mini golfing I literally had my arms wrapped around her several times, plus I had a lot of fun. Never saw her again after that, though there were a couple briefs messages exchanged back and forth.

I've had a lot of more minor ones where I'd get numbers at a bar or some random chance encounters in every day life. Many of these would result in literally no response at all, which from what I've heard is actually pretty common, especially since the interactions I had with them were very brief.

For example- Last fall I was at the bank and briefly speaking with the female banker. Before I left I asked for her phone number, she hesitated at first but decided to give it to me. She texted me back right away but we never ended up going out.
 
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sangheilios

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@Igetit!

I apologize for providing so many examples, and I could go on and on, but I just wanted to show you that I'm meeting women in a pretty large variety of environments, and doing so in different ways.

These women are all of various races, though predominately hispanic and white, I live in AZ. The ages varied, as young as 18 to mid 30s, possibly more because I didn't know her exact age. The only constant is me and the fact that I met all of these women where I live right now.

Most women I am in fact meeting in very spontaneous settings where our initial interactions would be fairly brief, nowhere near long enough to build any real sort of comfort or rapport.

I'm just super frustrated with all of this, and I think the manner of which I am meeting women is very unrealistic, at least in regards to actually making anything come to fruition. Most people I've seen in actual relationships, or at least gone out more than once, generally met each other through their social circle or some sort of shared activity (class, co ed sports, etc. ).

Combine the honestly very difficult cold scenarios like I have with not having elite game skills and naturally I'm not going to get any results lol. As I mentioned before, my player friend tells me I'm learning and it's normal to make these mistakes, but I don't know if that is the case. None of this feels natural to me in the slightest, as I was/am an extreme late bloomer and didn't even start dating until well into my 20s.
 

ChristopherColumbus

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Asking a girl out when delivering her hot pizza?? Get real. lol

This is even worse than complete 'cold approach'.
 

oldmanofthesea

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How many girls have you gotten numbers for in the last 12 months? How many of those did you text the same day you got the number? How many of them did you text within two hours?

I have never, ever, not once, texted a girl the same day I got her number. The minimum I wait is two days. Max is 7.

This is from four months ago, in response to my telling you to wait a few days to text:
Also, what I text her and when I do so does not matter at all.
So, are you the expert or are you here for help? Because if you are the expert, then I don't understand why you keep failing and complaining about it. Are you seeing why some people are becoming irritated with your posts? You get advice and not only don't take it, you tell us we are wrong then continue to complain about failing.

Explain to us why you think it's a good idea to text immediately, given your results and given the advice you've received here.
 

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sangheilios

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How many girls have you gotten numbers for in the last 12 months? How many of those did you text the same day you got the number? How many of them did you text within two hours?

I have never, ever, not once, texted a girl the same day I got her number. The minimum I wait is two days. Max is 7.

This is from four months ago, in response to my telling you to wait a few days to text:


So, are you the expert or are you here for help? Because if you are the expert, then I don't understand why you keep failing and complaining about it. Are you seeing why some people are becoming irritated with your posts? You get advice and not only don't take it, you tell us we are wrong then continue to complain about failing.

Explain to us why you think it's a good idea to text immediately, given your results and given the advice you've received here.
I gave a break down of some examples on post #82, there are others but of course I'm not going to have more minor encounters memorized, as I had mentioned on there.

I've had women respond to and schedule a date within THE day of getting their number. What is continuous is ghosting, which may or may not necessarily be due to specifically texting. In this scenario it is very possible that the texting was the issue, but it also could be something else. If a woman would really like to go out with some guy she met do you think she'd lose interest simply because he asked for a date that day? Of course not. Granted, I'm sure there are women out there where such things do in fact matter, but if such a simple "mistake" is such a big deal then I'm clearly wasting my time.

Her: "Oh I just met a nice man who asked me for my number, yay me". 1 hour later Her: "Oh, he just asked me when I'm available......ewwwww" LOL.
 

oldmanofthesea

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If a woman would really like to go out with some guy she met do you think she'd lose interest simply because he asked for a date that day? Of course not. Granted, I'm sure there are women out there where such things do in fact matter, but if such a simple "mistake" is such a big deal then I'm clearly wasting my time.
Ok then stop asking questions. You have all the answers you need. Whatever it is inside of you that is causing you to ignore advice, continue doing the same thing despite repeated failure, thinking you have all the answers, and then repeatedly complaining, is also likely responsible for whatever some of these women are smelling on you that causes them to reject you.

If a woman would really like to go out with some guy she met do you think she'd lose interest simply because he asked for a date that day?
You delivered a fvcking pizza to her dude. Why do you think she "REALLY "wants to go out with you? Are you a 10 in looks? Unless you're a 9 or a 10, *most* girls aren't going to be *jumping* at the chance to go out on a first date with you. Some will be curious enough to give you a first date to see how you make them feel but brother, you delivered a pizza to her..... Seriously. You have some sort of entitlement delusions that the girls you meet should have immediate pre-date high interest in you, with zero game on your part, so much so that they start texting you in seconds of number exchange.
 

guru1000

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I had a pizza boy show up at my door this weekend for a delivery of pizza. I told the girl I was with to open the door and give the pizzaboy a $20 tip. As I'm generous. And so she did. The pizzaboy was ecstatic. Not only did he get a $20 tip but he also got to see a hot girl.

And so we sat down in the 1000 sq ft dining area to eat the pizza, while the pizza boy went back to his pizza van for his next delivery.

Status is ALL. IF want to pick up hot chicks delivering pizza, lol, you Better bring more status (i.e. looks and sick game) to the table then just the pizza. Otherwise stick to venues where your status can shine, and leave business as business.
 

LJC

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I'm curious as to how many guys here can dress up like a low status, pizza boy and get an attractive, 20-something woman to agree to go out on a date with them in the time it takes to exchange a pizza at her doorstep. I would bet 95% of those guys would FAIL.

But he did it.
She said yes.
She even confirmed name and contact info with that first text he sent.

Why are you guys so hung up on this pizza thing and bagging on him for it?

Half of you guys would be bragging about this feat if you were the ones pulling it off, no?

Clearly something went wrong after the interaction. And because the exchange was so simplistic, it should be obvious (short of her being vindictive and just f-cking with him) that he got too excited/eager, she picked up on that very quickly and that had her second guessing everything very quickly.

It was only then that his "low status" became the hindrance.

This makes perfect sense in scenarios where a woman will have an interest that can be fickle and temped due to extremely minimal comfort, minimal emotional investment established, etc.
 

guru1000

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I'm curious as to how many guys here can dress up like a low status, pizza boy and get an attractive, 20-something woman to agree to go out on a date with them in the time it takes to exchange a pizza at her doorstep. I would bet 95% of those guys would FAIL.
That is correct. And part of the 95% of guys who would fail would be seasoned guys too. OP is not seasoned. He's still learning to get to first base. Hence, I rather give him a fighting chance.

It's kind of like watching an obese guy picking up women and failing over and over and over again, thread after thread after thread, with exactly the same result despite ALL the advice given ... AND then you tell him to just build more comfort. I'd advise him to just STOP, get to a normal bodyweight first, and that should be his focus. Similarly, as OP already has looks (but no game which can take even longer to develop), I rather he position himself in venues where his status can shine (gym, yoga, professional conventions, etc.)

Then once he bangs a handful and build some game/momentum, then proceed to pizzaboy game if he elects. lol

Also, her giving the phone # does not mean she was interested, as most would dole out their # just to make the guy go away. His followup only reinforced the problem (low status), but did not create it. The problem has less to do with his followup and more to do with his start default position (pizza delivery). Hence the focus.
 

LJC

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And part of the 95% of guys who would fail would be seasoned guys too.
Agree.

OP is not seasoned.
Agree.

It's kind of like watching an obese guy picking up women and failing over and over and over again, thread after thread after thread, with exactly the same result despite ALL the advice given ... AND then you tell him to just build more comfort. I'd advise him to just STOP, get to a normal bodyweight first, and that should be his focus. Similarly, as OP already has looks (but no game which can take even longer to develop), I rather he position himself in venues where his status can shine (gym, yoga, professional conventions, etc.)
I can agree with this as well. However, I see little reason to dissuade a man from enjoying moments of success, particularly those where even seasoned men will often fail, simply because he messed up somewhere further down the line.

Also, her giving the phone # does not mean she was interested, as most would dole out their # just to make the guy go away.
This is true. But that is not what happened, IMO. She didn't just give a number to make him go away. She agreed to a date and then confirmed her name, contact and interest by responding to his first text. I, and many men on this site, often initiate a text with a woman upon the number exchange just to provide them with your number. I do it often. Women text me immediately when I'm the one giving out my number first. This is normal and routine. Seems to me that is all that happened there.

Had she just wanted him to go away, she most likely would not have responded to his initial text at all.

His followup only reinforced the problem (low status), but did not create it.
Again, I agree. But it was his second text that did this. Not the first. This is the moment in which I believe it went downhill very quickly for him, and I have said as much as you just did: It was in that moment that his status overshadowed his success. Yes, being the pizza guy was a factor all along, but he had overcome that hurdle only to sabotage it shortly thereafter.

The problem has less to do with his followup and more to do with his start default position (pizza delivery).
And as I said, he had already overcome it. His problem is that he let that status reinject itself to prominence by the mistake(s) he made.

Had he only been able to get this girl to meet him for a quick drink, he would have easily had the time necessary not only to shed the low-status pizza guy thing with a degree, more schooling, owning a home, stock investments, etc, but his extra money making gig would have painted him as more ambitious and hungry. He could have spun it as an advantage later on.

All he needed was more time.

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have issues to work out, perhaps even very significant ones.

I'm not saying he should continue pursuing pizza guy game. lol.

I'm not saying he shouldn't pursue other avenues of improvement and opportunity, or even stop, as you suggest, from trying to score from this low status position when it is not necessary for him to do so.

All I'm saying is that I see no reason to rip a guy apart for something he actually did right. It serves no purpose.
 

sangheilios

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You delivered a fvcking pizza to her dude. Why do you think she "REALLY "wants to go out with you? Are you a 10 in looks? Unless you're a 9 or a 10, *most* girls aren't going to be *jumping* at the chance to go out on a first date with you. Some will be curious enough to give you a first date to see how you make them feel but brother, you delivered a pizza to her..... Seriously. You have some sort of entitlement delusions that the girls you meet should have immediate pre-date high interest in you, with zero game on your part, so much so that they start texting you in seconds of number exchange.
I was giving a comical example of how a woman going from excited to total disinterest would respond to something like this. Again, I had told you guys that she quickly responded back to me, again which indicated she obviously was flattered and enjoyed the interaction. If there was low interest she never would have responded at all.

Anyway, I don't even know why I'm continuing to discuss something that happened almost 48 hours ago.
 

stormrider

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To me it seems like the OP lacks value awareness. In order to paint yourself as high status, the woman must make a worthy effort before you can reward her with an escalation. Even if you are the one pursuing her. But this seems like a paradox. How can SHE make an effort when I am the one chasing?

The answer is vetting/qualifying/screening women. This should have been the second text, or the text to replace the text where he fvcked up (when he tried to escalate for a date).

When you escalate on a woman who doesn't do anything to deserve it (no investment), she cannot help but to see you as low status/needy/desperate/have no standards.

Remember, investment = compliance. You cannot get any compliance from her if she doesn't invest. It's a very simple principle to remember but a mistake 99.999999% of guys make.

This principle plays out in poker too. The more you invest, the harder to pull out psychologically. This is why a lot of women have a hard time leaving a sinking ship of a romance. The iceberg is right ahead but she willingly sinks with the ship.

So how do you get a woman to invest by qualifying them? It's simple. All you have to do is force qualify her by combing a generic quality (like sex appeal) and a unique quality.

I would have said something like "not just are you sexy, but I really like how spontaneous you are :)"

I am framing myself as the one who is validating her, so she senses the status coming from me. But this is just more of a bait text just to see if she responds.

If I had said "I like you because you are sexy", I would have appeared like a desperate fvckboy. You have to raise your standards a little bit to screen women for intangible qualities to appear like you have options.

My next text would have been something like "so what do you like to do for fun?" I'm still qualifying her and getting her to invest.

Of course, I am investing too. Whatever I am asking from her, I also give. This is how you have a romantic conversation. You can even throw in some light banter, or whatever your personality is.

It can keep going on forever. If she makes an effort to invest in the conversation and opens herself up to me, THEN I would suggest a date. Because only then does it make sense. We are both interested in one another, we've both invested a little bit of out time and energy, so it wouldn't hurt to see if there is a connection over coffee or drinks.

Your entire game should just be positioning yourself in a place where you are the one screening her. Not only for unique qualities, but also effort and investment. And then you escalate when she has given you enough investment.

Escalation has to be a movie moment. The tension has to stir and the anticipation has to build and both parties must invest until it finally blows up from all the heat.
 

sangheilios

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I'm curious as to how many guys here can dress up like a low status, pizza boy and get an attractive, 20-something woman to agree to go out on a date with them in the time it takes to exchange a pizza at her doorstep. I would bet 95% of those guys would FAIL.

But he did it.
She said yes.
She even confirmed name and contact info with that first text he sent.

Why are you guys so hung up on this pizza thing and bagging on him for it?

Half of you guys would be bragging about this feat if you were the ones pulling it off, no?

Clearly something went wrong after the interaction. And because the exchange was so simplistic, it should be obvious (short of her being vindictive and just f-cking with him) that he got too excited/eager, she picked up on that very quickly and that had her second guessing everything very quickly.

It was only then that his "low status" became the hindrance.

This makes perfect sense in scenarios where a woman will have an interest that can be fickle and temped due to extremely minimal comfort, minimal emotional investment established, etc.
Agree.



Agree.



I can agree with this as well. However, I see little reason to dissuade a man from enjoying moments of success, particularly those where even seasoned men will often fail, simply because he messed up somewhere further down the line.



This is true. But that is not what happened, IMO. She didn't just give a number to make him go away. She agreed to a date and then confirmed her name, contact and interest by responding to his first text. I, and many men on this site, often initiate a text with a woman upon the number exchange just to provide them with your number. I do it often. Women text me immediately when I'm the one giving out my number first. This is normal and routine. Seems to me that is all that happened there.

Had she just wanted him to go away, she most likely would not have responded to his initial text at all.



Again, I agree. But it was his second text that did this. Not the first. This is the moment in which I believe it went downhill very quickly for him, and I have said as much as you just did: It was in that moment that his status overshadowed his success. Yes, being the pizza guy was a factor all along, but he had overcome that hurdle only to sabotage it shortly thereafter.


And as I said, he had already overcome it. His problem is that he let that status reinject itself to prominence by the mistake(s) he made.

Had he only been able to get this girl to meet him for a quick drink, he would have easily had the time necessary not only to shed the low-status pizza guy thing with a degree, more schooling, owning a home, stock investments, etc, but his extra money making gig would have painted him as more ambitious and hungry. He could have spun it as an advantage later on.

All he needed was more time.

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have issues to work out, perhaps even very significant ones.

I'm not saying he should continue pursuing pizza guy game. lol.

I'm not saying he shouldn't pursue other avenues of improvement and opportunity, or even stop, as you suggest, from trying to score from this low status position when it is not necessary for him to do so.

All I'm saying is that I see no reason to rip a guy apart for something he actually did right. It serves no purpose.
This is pretty much spot on.

I think there are a lot of people on here that are all "theory" and don't actually go out and do any of the stuff that I've posted about on here. As you mentioned, I have a feeling few if any of the other posters on here would actually be able to pull off what I had done the other night, even though in the end it didn't work in my favor.

Sure, I may have made a mistake by coming across as too eager and excited by already trying to set up a date. However, with a woman who is highly interested and has gotten to know me, where there is comfort and rapport developed, I don't think she would ever see that as an issue. With that said, this woman that I delivered to did not at all know me outside of the couple of very brief conversational exchanges we had. I was probably at her door for less than 90 seconds, which is a very short period of time no that I think about it. To her I was just a random delivery guy that happened to be appealing to her physically but outside of that she knows nothing about me.

Given the context of this specific situation, I should have perhaps waited to text her back or had exchanged a few basic text conversations to build some sort of comfort with her before asking for a date.

The vast majority of women that I have tried to make something happen with I had largely met in very cold and spontaneous situations like these, which are naturally going to have a VERY low success rate in general.
 
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DreamAgain

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OP, you did a couple things wrong, but everything is fixable so don't worry. Not with this one maybe, but for future interactions for sure.

1. Should have waited two days to text.
2. Need to convey you have more going for you besides delivering pizza. Never mention anything about your pizza job, except only in a playful, nonchalant manner. As other posters have said, status matters.
3. Content of your texts need to be more interesting. You seem like a smart enough guy, so apply more effort in your messages to be witty. Use something in your conversation with her as a starting point for a new conversation. Hypothetically what I would have sent:

You: "Hey "girl's name" it's sanghelios from a few days ago, how has eating cold leftover pizza been going?
Her: "Hahaha I ate it that night, it was actually really good!"
You: "Really? Usually they're terrible that's why I can't wait to quit this side gig...it must have tasted better than usual since I held it, people tell me I have some sort of magic touch..."
Her: "Whaaat? Who says that, you're making that up."
Me: Well I'm going to PT school soon so pretty much everyone...I guess you're not in the loop then? I'm disappointed..."
Her: "something something etc etc."

And so the conversation continues.

I just cooked this up on the fly so you can do better of course with more time, but I hope you get the picture.
 

fastlife

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@sangheilios First you've gotten a lot of good advice ITT.

Here's my take: It's 2019. If this was 2012 or 2013, there's a good chance this number would mean something. But in 2019, numbers are mostly garbage. There's too much stimuli on a girl's phone--especially if she's >25--for it to be an avenue through which to make an emotional impact. Plus, she's intentionally consuming all this stuff on her phone specifically to alter her emotional state.

So, no matter how awesome you are, you're looking at a low probability play.

When you meet a girl, here's what you have to do:
  • Push for an instadate, keep things light & sexual, and try to direct that to your place or hers (probably impossible in this situation).
  • Time-bridge hard when you're in person for drinks that night (probably would've been your best play here). Play off the pizza boy sh1t and qualify her hard/get her chasing: [Invite her for drinks]. "You're just using me for my tip money." "You think I'm just like every other pizza boy." Etc., etc.
  • Get a number and push for a meetup later that night.
  • Get her number and try to take her on a date?
Bro, girls don't date anymore. Why would you take a girl out? You don't know her, she hasn't earned the right to you spending money or even being seen in public wit her she has to get ready, etc. Your main advantage in this situation is that you are low status, so you don't have any provider vibes going on. If she wants to spend time with you it's just for ONE thing. So play to your strengths. My all-time highest converting 'date' is just inviting a girl over for a glass of wine at my apartment and making her promise to not put any moves on me. If she flakes, I never left my house. Low investment, and it works, since she doesn't have to worry about social judgment, it shows you're used to girls coming over with no effort on your part, and you never have to worry about being put in the BF zone.

Also, as far as waiting to text, I always text as soon as I get the number. My next text, probably an hour or two later, is pushing to hang out that night. If she ghosts, I'll text her at my convenience later in the week. Spike her emotions, push for a meetup that day. Keep it minimal. Getting a number isn't a huge deal. Flaking is super common--even for sets where a girl is head over heals for you. Waiting to text is overplayed: she's read about that in every episode of Cosmo, everyone has their phone on them at all times, it gives you an excuse to be passive instead of going out to meet other girls, attention spans are short.
 

marmel75

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That guy obviously didn’t know what in the blue hell he was doing.
Yeah that's like 70% of guys tho...they far outnumber the ones who do know what is going on.
 

sangheilios

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Quick update for everyone on here.......she ended up texting me back earlier this evening. She is going to be out of town for a couple weeks but she said she wanted to go out when she comes back.

End thread, thanks to everyone who provided solid input, definitely some things I'll keep in mind in the future.
 

marmel75

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I can honestly say I’ve never heard about or seen a man get violent because a woman rejected him. Now I hear about women staying in abusive relationships all the time and refusing to leave, and I’m just like you’re stupid if you put up with that.

I had a woman reject me over a loud speaker when I was 15 at the skating rink. All my friends were there and heard it. Talk about embarrassed, but I never cussed her out or did anything to her. I saw this same girl a couple years ago and boy did she get fat, she came up to me to apologize a million times about something that happened 21 years prior and then proceeded to ask me out.lol
Really? There was just an article on yahoo about a guy who went and got a gun, came back and shot and killed a woman after she rejected him.

People are psychotic these days so I can see why women would be more scared than ever to tell a guy no.
 
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