GamePlan's Approaching Journal - Despite social phobia

[GamePlan]

My social anxiety was prolly alot worse than urs. It took therapy for me to get out of it.

I doubt it was a lot worse than mine (maybe worse, but probably not a lot). I've seen a couple of psychologist's before, too...last time because of public speaking problems, though. I don't mean to sound like I'm opposed to doctors, but I think with things like these it all comes down to one thing: You're out there on your own and either you overcome that obstacle or you won't..maybe someone can kinda assist..like guys on these forums..or a psychologist, but in the end it only comes down to one thing: You are the one who will make it or break it. (when it comes to social phobia or public speaking I mean...if you had a terrible childhood or are a girl that was raped psychological counseling might play a more important role..but approaching/public speaking fear is something u can only overcome by practicing, practicing, practicing..not by only talking about it)

Went downtown, walked around for about 1 hour. The first girl that came my way gave me heavy eye contact and I didn't say anything (she wasn't very hot, but it would have still been a perfect start). I chickened out many more times, but hi'd 5 people and in the end FINALLY said hi to some chick.

All those hi's to chicks except for one haven't been confident but more a ***** to get out so far...plus none to any really hot chicks, yet. I have a lot more work to do before this becomes second nature. I hope by the end of this month, I'll be as comfortable saying hi to attractive girls/women as I'm with hello'ing random people. Sounds slow, but I have to take it one step at a time and if I can overcome one obstacle /month, this would be great news as this is already step 2 of 4. I also promise Im not gonna lie to myself and move on to approaching as soon as I feel somewhat comfortable about saying hi to chicks.


P.S.: I'll try to make this journal stuff more readable..and think once I'll actually start to tackle the approaching part I'll start a new one for that.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Oh..nothing special just like when I was walking past this store and had seen that girl putting the things she had tried on back in place and leave I might have said "so haven't you found anything?lol"..or in the library when this girl was sitting at the pc and gave me eye contact (thats why i think it wouldnt have been too ****y), I would have said something like 'the weather is so nice outside and you're just sitting at the computer all day long..lol'..(the weather really was great that day)..there was something else, but that one I can't remember right now.

I mean..really nothing special just letting my mind wander and thinking would I could say in that situation to start a conversation.

I noticed you have a 'lol' at the end of the opener. You would sort of make a mock or feigned laugh at the end of your opener to lighten it up I suppose? See if she laughs back before talking.

Would this be some sort of test. Make some sort of opener that will sort of get her to laugh to test for humour, and if she's playful then continue with something witty or humorous? If she's evasive or doesn't laugh back, then you'd just walk I guess. So you could be qualifying her for humour.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

"I saw you over here and just had to come tell you that you have the most amazing ____"

Do you use lewd comments on openers? Obviously, you wouldn't say a$$ on the blanks right. You'd have to say something where she wouldn't feel like a sex object?

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Practice forced approaches -> girls are nice, feel it's okay to approach, but too nervous and still feels weird to go out and "sarge", but daily approaches start to happen naturally -> do a # of daily approaches then feel comfortable "sarging" -> master pimp you can sarge and approach chicks all day no prob

I can relate to this on my thread. If I force myself to do any sort of approach, you realise that the girls do not bite, and you get more comfortable doing so and it can become part of a routine. In this level approaches are theraputic.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Gameplan,

Great job approaching - I guess I have the same challenges and goals you have, we both want approaching hot babes to be something that's second nature and just do an opener and let the chips fall where they may without analyzing or worrying about it too much. I cant seem to beat the anxieties through and seem under fire whenever I try to do an approach, but it has been inspiring to read your journal I must say.

I hope that in turn I'll be updating my journal with some more solid openers in the future. Keep it up and congratulations on the progress. You always have to remember where you started and build from there, and each day take it a step further where you can.

 

[danielzxc]

My social anxiety was prolly alot worse than urs. It took therapy for me to get out of it.

I doubt it was a lot worse than mine (maybe worse, but probably not a lot). I've seen a couple of psychologist's before, too...last time because of public speaking problems, though.

Gee man, I didn't know you guys' problems went that far. That's pretty damn good work to overcome something THAT debilitating that you needed to seek therapy for it. Myself, I don't think my problem is anywhere quite as serious as that; it's just more a case of overcoming some jitters and getting on with it. Hearing about what you guys have had to overcome sure puts a bit of perspective on my own struggles.

 

[GamePlan]

@Luke: thx. Im glad to see some people are actually reading it lol.

@Daniel: I think now youre overestimating my problem . It is bad and I do realize I have a problem, but I dont think its something that cant be solved by taking action. I think the saying "hello" to some random stranger was the hardest part of my approaching problem to overcome, though..not because the rest is easier, but because that was when I realized my mind CAN be changed when it comes to that.

 

[GamePlan]

Today SUCKED again.

3 hi's from random people, but not 1 from a girl. I have to stop stagnating and continue progressing again!

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Today SUCKED again.

3 hi's from random people, but not 1 from a girl. I have to stop stagnating and continue progressing again!

Well, at least you are trying. I dont seem to see many approach journals on here that are active.

I have a different approach system where I allow myself to bail out if I look at a girl for less than 3 seconds, or if it's a complex approach scenerio then I give myself up to 30 seconds before bailing out. So I have stayed within my rules and didn't approach. I mean - you dont have to approach if you dont want to - when you start getting rigid then it's not good.

However, I got some good eye play. That means, a girl was looking at me, while I was looking at her, and I sort of felt connected in an abstract way. It's like you notice people in malls, what they are doing, if they are with kids, and you see them going out and you feel this wierd connection, and that also feels nice --- almost like some sort of non-verbal rapport with a total stranger. I like it somehow. I'm just emphasising there is some non-verbal communication to also be looking into. Write about any eye-contact experiences you are getting with people if you can too.

Well, as someone suggested, I think either on this thread or another one, open by asking them what toothpaste they use or some other nonsence.

 

[GamePlan]

@Luke: thx for the feedback. At the moment Im still trying to get used to/comfortable with just saying Hi (while smiling) at hot chicks. Ill only tackle the approaches after that..trying to take it step by step..though I hope by the end of this month, I finally AM (somewhat) comfortable doing this.

I know what you're trying to say about the eye contact, but I wont post about eye contact experiences here. Im already a bit ashamed Im not even doing approaching, yet :-D. Just kidding...

 

[GamePlan]

Walked around for 2 hours. Greeted 2 or 3 people (good sign, that I dont really remember those numbers exactly anymore, as it's become second nature).

Sort of was close to bumping into a woman who came my way (not bumping..but well a strange situation) and I said laughing "haha sorry".

Then I was standing at a traffic light so another chick in a different direction and made an effort to walk over the other street to pass her by..I did..but she didnt look and I passed her by without saying a thing. The same thing happened once more.

Later I saw a woman walking and stopping, she gave me eye contact and I finally said "Hi" one more time............finally....she asked me if I knew where some street was, but I couldnt help her (guess I should have asked her why she wanna go there..).

Also I got myself a pizza and talked to the guy (who I know a bit) if he never had problems with drunk people, etc. and I have to say I like the concept of open ended questions, especially when you ask people something, they might want to ***** about lol. He didnt ***** and said he hadntn had any problems with drunk ppl, but that last summer during the world cup he was thinking about it..and so on.

This might sound weird, as just saying "hello" or "hi" shoudlnt matter, whether they give you eye contact or not. But I think my brain has sort of turned into thinking, that it's normal to say hi when somebody gives me prolonged eye contact. Im absolutely not used to saying hi to any girl who doesnt look my way, but thats something I dont worry about right now (at least not too much though i try to pull it off..). If I can get used to saying hi to every chick who gives me eye contact, then I'll move on to having conversation with every chick, that gives me EC - and that I say "Hi" to.

That's the most important thing for me right now. and if i get to that point, THEN i'll make a point of chatting up girls who arent even looking my way...though like i said im already trying to hi chicks even if they dont look at me, I just cant seem to pull it off, yet.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Sort of was close to bumping into a woman who came my way (not bumping..but well a strange situation) and I said laughing "haha sorry".

Nice one there.

Then I was standing at a traffic light so another chick in a different direction and made an effort to walk over the other street to pass her by..I did..but she didnt look and I passed her by without saying a thing. The same thing happened once more.

Yeah, I know how that is. You feel you are intruding into their space by making an approach and you dont want to waste a 'hi' or approach to see it just hit a wall - it's a bit discouraging when that happens.
Some chicks are just preoccupied in their own world or something I guess and are just not in a receptive frame of mind.

You'd probably have to approach basically - such as asking for time or directions or information about something I suppose in those type of cases where you are not getting eye contact. If a woman is so phased out that she cant respond to a stranger who is asking for help, then she really does have a problem.

Also I got myself a pizza and talked to the guy (who I know a bit) if he never had problems with drunk people, etc. and I have to say I like the concept of open ended questions,

I guess that would be the next step once you are comfortable approaching is to establish and maintain some fluff talk with open enders.

This might sound weird, as just saying "hello" or "hi" shoudlnt matter, whether they give you eye contact or not. But I think my brain has sort of turned into thinking, that it's normal to say hi when somebody gives me prolonged eye contact. Im absolutely not used to saying hi to any girl who doesnt look my way, but thats something I dont worry about right now (at least not too much though i try to pull it off..). If I can get used to saying hi to every chick who gives me eye contact, then I'll move on to having conversation with every chick, that gives me EC - and that I say "Hi" to.

Yup, it's rather difficult to say hi without some form of IOI, since it makes you feel rather clingy or desperate to make an uninivited approach. You'd probably have to use a covert opener, such as asking for information, time or direction in order to open them.

However, the reason I see IOI's as important is because based on Gabe Fisberg's book "Guide to Picking up Girls", IOI's are functions if a girl is single and looking, or if she isn't. If a girl is single, obviously, she's going to be more receptive - if she's taken or has had her fill of men for the day or whatever, then she's not likely going to be receptive. But then again, you are working out your personal demons with approaching girls, so it's quite irrelevant on whether the girl is single or not single - keep trying.

 

[GamePlan]

Yeah, I know how that is. You feel you are intruding into their space by making an approach and you dont want to waste a 'hi' or approach to see it just hit a wall - it's a bit discouraging when that happens.

That's not really the reason in my case. I'm really just to wuss to get it out lol.

Yup, it's rather difficult to say hi without some form of IOI, since it makes you feel rather clingy or desperate to make an uninivited approach. You'd probably have to use a covert opener, such as asking for information, time or direction in order to open them.

What does IOI stand for exactly?

I have no problem asking girls for the time (a few days ago I did it..posted somewhere in this thread), but I feel it's hard to transition to an actual conversation and practicing this won't help me rid my approaching anxiety. Plus, I'd feel a bit silly to ask a girl for the time and then start hitting on her...(comes across a bit wack, I think).

I think just saying "Hi" to a chick not looking my way in order to hit on her might be easier than asking her for the time first. But right now, I don't focus on either one too much. Once I have no problem saying hi and approaching HBs who give me eye contact first, I'll try practicing the other stuff..

..though Im already sort of trying to make a point of Hi'ing chicks who are not looking my way just so I have a higher success rate. Damn I need to go places where more chicks stroll LOL.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

What does IOI stand for exactly?

It means Indicator of Interest - basically it's an invitation from an interested girl to approach, and it means that it's a 90% likelihood that you will be successful on approach and will get reciprocation.

People who are higher on the 'looks' grade will typically get them from girls who are a few notches lower than their looks. (eg. if you are an 8 in a looks scale, then you may get IOI's from 6's or less, or you are a 5, then it's probably better to just approach than wait for IOI's, if you are really a hot guy, then you should be getting a whole bunch of IOI's everywhere. Not sure of pheneronomes would be helpful to increasing IOI's as I've never tested it)

I have no problem asking girls for the time (a few days ago I did it..posted somewhere in this thread), but I feel it's hard to transition to an actual conversation and practicing this won't help me rid my approaching anxiety.

Well, technically, you are still approaching if you go up and talk to her for any excuse. You really have to reach a point where you see that women are basically civil and the worst case scenerio of approaching is just analyzing too much into it - because there is no unusual reaction to a girl you are approaching. They are not going to freak out on you on a simple approach, and will either ignore you or respond back in a positive way. Everything else is just in the mind. That's the whole challenge about this approach thing because you are really dealing with your own anxiety and fears and how they are projecting around.

The problem I have is if I feel insecure about an approach, and dont feel I know what I'm doing, I tend to say things in a ackward tone of voice and it's like I'm coughing up words. Some people say that one should kino-touch a girl when you are approaching her - like say 'hi', smile, and touch her on the shoulder - or put some kino somewhere.

I dont know whether it is an 'inner game' issue, or I just need to memorise some good openers. Just have to see I guess.

Plus, I'd feel a bit silly to ask a girl for the time and then start hitting on her...(comes across a bit wack, I think).

So do I. It's a rather 'technical approach' rather than a real approach that will go somewhere. But I'd rather you ask for time or directions than totally wuss out - I mean doing something is better than nothing at all, so rather than totally wuss out of something, fall back even on a lame approach.

 

[GamePlan]

Well, technically, you are still approaching if you go up and talk to her for any excuse.

You are right technically, I'm still approaching them, when I'm asking for time or directions. And actually I'm a very technical person. But I must know, that I cant fool myself, if I wanna make progress. For example, I could go out tomorrow and ask a 20 girls for the time or for directions tomorrow. It wouldn't be much of a problem, really (if I'm in a big enough city).

However, it won't help me overcome my issue with approaching girls and making it very clear, that indeed I want them ;-). I think that's one of my problems..I used to always have the mindset, that I couldnt let any girl know I was into her - I'd have to hide it. After all it could cause an embarrassing situation, if she knew I was into her, huh?lol. I did overcome that problem and realized that I do have to show girls that Im interested in them because nothing will happen just magically.

And I think its the same with approaching. I must make a point of showing I'm interested or else I'm fooling myself.

As for the IOI, thx for breaking it down to me.

 

[GamePlan]

Today sucked again!

I went to the bus station. A woman was sitting, there, I looked at her she looked at me and I just said "Hello" and she said "hello" back. Then I asked her if the bus i was about to take had already been there and she said it hadn't and that she was waiting for the same bus. I'm sure if she had been an attractive girl, I would have been able to do the same (Hi instead of hello). I realized, that it's THAT MUCH EASIER. When the girl is sitting somewhere (alone) like at a bus station..compared to when youre walking and she's walking and everything's moving. This one showed me, that my minds starting to find it more normal to say "Hello" or "Hi" in those types of situations than being all quite and looking away and all that.

In the park/city I greeted a couple more people (like 3-4 Hello's), but I didn't hi another chick ;-(. Once I said a hi to a chick when she had almost already passed me by on her bike, but nobody other than me probably heard that one, so I wont give myself credit for it, because it was really just crap.

That being said, I realized, that..as I'm trying to make this effort to make eye contact (I wonder why I see so few chicks on the streets these days? During summer days they're like all over, but with this type of weather I walk for miles and only see old people LOL) one thing has changed for the better:

Ever since 17 or so when I made eye contact with strangers (including chicks), when I was not tipsy (like at clubs), I would get this totally strange feeling like my neck area was shaking/trembling and like I was kinda petrified when someone made eye contact. It really wasnt that bad, but it would usually make me look away. So today I realized, that..as Im trying to make eye contact all the time anyways..with anybody..everywhere..this strange feeling seems to be gone. It's just away. Actually sometimes Ive been making a point of looking at chick's tits and then in their eyes..hey gotta have a little fun while Im out there walking my feet off, right?LOL

But anyways, tomorrow Im finally going to a bigger city, though I might only stay 2 hours (depends on whether im going back with a friend whos going to college ,there or whether ill pay for the train) and hope I can hi A COUPLE OF CHICKS, tomorrow. I have to finally make progress, again! So, I better get in A COUPLE OF THEM.

I really hope Im not gonna have to post tomorrow, that the day was yet another failure!

 

[GamePlan]

my name ain't ice cube, but today was a good day

I got a ride at 8 AM to this big city close to where I live. I'll sum it up quickly:

I'm hi'd and hello'd a couple of folks.

I said good morning to some milf shop owner who was doing something in front of her shop not looking in my direction, at all.

Said hi or bye to a few sales assistants.

I also caught another milf checking me out and said "hello"..damn those hello's it got to be "hi's".

However, I chickened out saying hi and mumbled like some hi, that probably could have never been heard..i thought it was better than nothing ;(. but believe me those ones cant be counted. I did that about 5-10 times....I really have to work on those hi's to chicks, even if they dont give me EC...

Then I saw some chick taking a break from work going outside smoking a cigarette, I was walking her way she made eye contact with me I made EC, too and she held it, so I said "Hi" and she replied "hi" in a flirty kind of way. I consider this to be the only Hi to a chick today. But what feels great about it is that it confirmed my theory: when the chick is standing or sitting somewhere and giving me real eye contact (not just glancing quickly), it seems to be really easy for me to just say "Hi". It's so much easier than trying to get a hi out to girls who are walking, etc.

I was walking around and on the train/in the car for 8 hours....damn Im tired, Im about to watch married with children, now haha.

One thing, I realized: I'm not really getting lots of eye contact - to say the very least. I dont want to sound ****y but Im used to getting a lot more. But I think I know the reason: The weather sucks right now (it actually rains most of the time in may?!), so I always have to wear a jacket/a sweater when I go outside..and even though I DONT believe I have an ugly face my body is obviously the biggest thing I got going for me (Im 6'3 and have been working out 3-4 times a week for 1-2hours ever since I was 16)..but not if Im wearing a thick sweater and a jacket, I guess. Sort of like if you see a chick with a hot body but shes wearing a sweater/jacket you can tell she has a good body, but its different than if shes wearing a nice little top. Know what i mean? I cant wait utnil the weather finally gets better.

P.S.: @Luke..I think im gonna use those asking for directions opener next time im on a vacation (which i plan to be some time soon). As in asking for directions and then bringing up your from abroad blabla (A BROAD haha)

 

[Lust]

Hey mate keep it up. Go nuts though, you don't need to view approaching hot chicks as such a big task.

If you want, you can check out my approach journal in my sig.

But better, why don't you check out the Style Life Challenge i am doing right now?

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=123136

I seriously recommend the Style Life Challenge to EVERYONE. Now matter how advanced you are, or if you are just a newbie, the Style Life Challenge is beneficial to EVERYONE.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

GamePlan;

I find the same thing about my own approaches. If a woman is receptive to me then it's effortless to say 'hi' or start some convo with her. When it appears she is not receptive or has some invisible shield on then it seems like you cough up an inaudible 'hi'. I blame the women as being non-receptive if you struggle to say 'hi' to her, because she has blocked something in her mind, you pick it up, and as a result, saying 'hi' becomes more tedious. I think it's a frame control on their end.

But I'm not sure what to make of it really. A positive interpretation is maybe people will feel put on the spot with an approach and may not be in the mood or ready to respond to a random stranger trying to strike up a convo with them or in that frame of mind. The girl may not be single, or may not want to be approached - and it's not necessarily something personal.

The point of this is also to have a healthy and positive view of ladies and not to take any particular approach personal or feel bad if you dont get a 'hi' out or get a reciprocation and learn to realise that given enough approaches you will get people who will reciprocate, and that there are general reasons that some women are not reciprocating or in the right frame of mind where you become timid to approach which aren't personal.

If you maintain a healthy attitude and view about the women you are approaching, and are not hard on yourself even if it doesn't work out, then that would still be some progress, even if you dont meet your personal 'hi' quotas, or dont count some of those 'hi's.

Also try smiling at women when they are not looking at you and see if they turn back and notice you smiling at them as an exercise.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

I've noticed this link, it may be of interest and it's free.

http://www.approachanxiety.com