GamePlan's Approaching Journal - Despite social phobia

[GamePlan]

Oh..nothing special just like when I was walking past this store and had seen that girl putting the things she had tried on back in place and leave I might have said "so haven't you found anything?lol"..or in the library when this girl was sitting at the pc and gave me eye contact (thats why i think it wouldnt have been too ****y), I would have said something like 'the weather is so nice outside and you're just sitting at the computer all day long..lol'..(the weather really was great that day)..there was something else, but that one I can't remember right now.

I mean..really nothing special just letting my mind wander and thinking would I could say in that situation to start a conversation.

 

[danielzxc]

Yeah, those are nice. I didn't mean to suggest that you needed anything "special". Just simple stuff like that.

I just read a tip on an old thread that I think is good, regarding this stuff:

I basically look at any person, and try to think up a quick sentence that i could use to start up a conversation.

That's not a bad idea, huh? Obviously you wouldn't have to SAY what you thought up to everyone. The idea is to just practise generating openers, so that when there IS someone you wanna approach, you come up with something to say automatically. (Oh, and obviously this stuff is related to "situational" openers, otherwise there's no need to worry about generating openers because you can just use a standard line for everyone.)

 

[GamePlan]

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant..just that I'm not thinking up something for everyone, yet lol but I think itll help improvise, though.

 

[lyamdb]

I'm at the beginning of my way too. But there's one thing I've realized. Its not that you can't find something to say. rather, its that you're just afraid to say the things you have in mind. and even worse than that, you're afraid to find things to say! there's a part of you that doesn't want you to find things to say because what ever you say will be stupid, that part of you feels.
I think the only thing that can beat this fear down and help you BECOME YOURSELF is to keep practicing and DOING the aproaches no matter what. what ever you're doing, just keep at it. doesn't really matter WHAT you do as long as you know you're doing something. say hi, try to make her laugh, start a conversation, just make eye contact, whatever. just don't return to your comfort zone! and don't be afraid of acting stupid cuz that's exactly what you're gonna do for a while.

 

[GamePlan]

Its not that you can't find something to say. rather, its that you're just afraid to say the things you have in mind. and even worse than that, you're afraid to find things to say!

For me (and a few friends I know) this is only partially true. I'll of course still be afraid of saying it even, if I know what to say. However, it's a lot better..I know many guys who are like "Hi." "Can I buy you a drink?" and say "I dont know what else I could say??" (of course they dont really try to think something up) and like 2 years ago I wouldnt have been able to think of something different, either. I also know a friend who approached a girl and said "Hi" she said "hi" and then he didnt know what to say and dissappeared LOL.

Not saying, that itll blow my fear of approaching away, without doing it ;-). But I think knowing something to say other than just "Hi. Can I buy you a drink" will help me.

I've found it useful to FLIRT WITH ALL GIRLS, hot or not. You want this to become part of your personality. The concept of being able to turn your game "on" and "off" ultimately does not work. You need this to be interwoven in your body. I sometimes have the same problem as you, I only get excited when talking to an attractive chick that I would consider hooking up with. But by flirting with all guys, ugly or hot, you are just focusing on your skill set. Besides, you are not obliged to hook up with anyone you don't want to!

I know what you mean..Im about to go check out an appartment..thinking Ill probably not take it, but as Im not sure Ill still have a look at it..I can always say "nope not for me, sorry" after going there ;-).

However..I have to say I am flirty and talk sexually with all my female friends, too (except with those whose boyfriends are friends of mine LOL)..and I really dont have a problem with doing that..i used to but that changed a lot over the last year..this whole ****y/funny thing has sort of become who I am (but then I guess thats only natural because e verybody I know considers me sarcastic/ironic lol)..and I do it with girls who I find only a little bit attractive or average and wouldnt really want to date, too..

however I didnt really want to really flirt with this chick on the bus who I really didnt find attractive, at all..I think that would have been leading her on. However, I didn make an effort to have a decent conversation with her and to ask her a couple of questions, that's alright or isn't it?;-)...I'm really convinced, that I wouldnt have had a problem asking her for her number or being a flirt if I had found her attractive, though.

Anyways, I'm going outside continuing my journal now.

 

[flows101]

gameplane its not what you open with its about your follow up (what you say after you open) that matters.

 

[ElStud]

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=123139

Here's my approach journal if you want to check it out.

I'm pretty much at the same place you are.

Good luck man!

 

[danielzxc]

however I didnt really want to really flirt with this chick on the bus who I really didnt find attractive, at all..I think that would have been leading her on. However, I didn make an effort to have a decent conversation with her and to ask her a couple of questions, that's alright or isn't it?;-)

Yeah, I do it with girls I'm not really attracted to. (Obviously not because I've approached them. Just chicks with whom I've found myself talking to for a variety of reasons.) It's kind of "flirting without flirting". I just aim to project and maintain the kind of upbeat and energetic conversational mood that I have when flirting, but just limit the kind of things I actually say. It's a good way to keep the saw sharp if you lack practising in REALLY flirting with chicks you are actually attracted to (like if your pipeline, like mine, is empty because you haven't been approaching, for example).

 

[GamePlan]

gameplane its not what you open with its about your follow up (what you say after you open) that matters.

I guess you mean to say, that what you say when opening doesn't matter as much, but if you're trying to get her number you have to be slick after that? If so, I understand what you mean, but if you don't have a clue on how to open in the first place, because you "don't know what to say" (I'm not the only guy I know who thinks...or well t h o u g h t like this), then I guess knowing how to open is very important, too.

However, I continue to see just HOW easy it is to open. The other day (when I was still living downtown) and went to the grocery store at like 5 PM or so, this hot chick passed me by and smiled at me..and all it would have taken me to say after the "Hi" would have been "you coming from work?" ("yeah" - "so what's your job?" - "oh sounds interesting" - blabla) and you're in the middle of a conversation..if she's attracted to you in the first place.

I think this opener is a pretty universal one. Basically you can use a variation of this one on every girl that's walking. "Hi, you coming from work?" "Hi, you going shopping?" ..kind of like the "so you didn't find anything?" I had in mind earlier on with this one chick.

I really think sarging during daylight is way better for me than sarging at the clubs. I'm sure I'll go to clubs again..with friends and stuff..but I think if you have it down (and don't need to be tipsy to hit on a chick) the daylight is way better than clubs, if you're a beginner...or if you're the laid back type of guy like myself, I guess.

Anyways, this is how it went today:

It was 4 PM and it was raining...and it's gonna be rainy for the whole next week, so I had to go anyway. Took the bus went to town..and at first I didn't feel comfortable (the more I walk around the easier it seems to get..sort of like warming up), but said Hello to about 4 or 5 random people (not chicks)..then later I hi'd a chick who was walking towards me, but right before I said it she dissappeared under her umbrella..but well I still said it..then my clothes were kind wet after an hour or so so I went to a friend's appartment to hang out with him and his girlfriend for half an hour or so..and went to the local swimming pool to check when they're gonna be opened (it's right across the street) and when I was walking out again some chick was walking towards the stairs I was walking downstairs she glanced at me quickly I hi'd her and she said Hi back. It wasn't all that romantic but it's getting better..and that even though I thought today would suck completely.

Btw, I think I could have easily used a variation of the opener I describe by saying "Hi, you going swimming?" (as there's some other stuff in the building). It's not especially witty, but that's not the point for me right now lol.

I also said hi to a few female sales assistants in shops..and about 5 minutes ago was at the supermarket again and said myself saying Hello sort of automatically to this woman who was doing some work there in a situation where I probably hadn't said before, but I already know this "effect". I like it though..makes you kinda realize how your mind is being reframed..as you sort of start to consider it normal to greet people.

oh and @ElStud: I'm gonna check your journal out right now.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

Nice work my man. liking how ur describing ur growth and the process of it.

 

[danielzxc]

You seem to be moving along really nicely. Have you been hit by the thought of "I can't understand what the hell I was ever afraid of" yet? Usually that's when you can tell you've really changed -- when your past seem "incomprehensible" to you.

However, I continue to see just HOW easy it is to open. The other day (when I was still living downtown) and went to the grocery store at like 5 PM or so, this hot chick passed me by and smiled at me..and all it would have taken me to say after the "Hi" would have been "you coming from work?" ("yeah" - "so what's your job?" - "oh sounds interesting" - blabla) and you're in the middle of a conversation..if she's attracted to you in the first place.

I don't wanna throw you off track with "details", but a good "rapport" question (sort of, anyway) for when it's near the end of the working day is "looking forward to going home?", or some variation of that. Like in your example, "you just coming from work" -- "yeah" -- "glad it's over for today?". I have actually used this (not in approaches, obviously, as I'm not doing any -- for now!) when chatting with retail workers quite a bit. It's always gotten a good response because virtually EVERYONE is happy that the working day is over. Reason I mention it is because it's a "feelings" question rather than a "facts" question. (Feelings-questions are better; I don't think I have to explain this.)

Basically you can use a variation of this one on every girl that's walking. "Hi, you coming from work?" "Hi, you going shopping?" ..kind of like the "so you didn't find anything?" I had in mind earlier on with this one chick.

I think it's a good idea to have a stock of such questions. I suppose it's a bit like "canned routines", but so what. I was always resistant to the idea of "canned" stuff, but I think that's mainly 'cos I saw it as too much trouble to learn, and, like everyone, I wanted short cuts. But if you do go to the trouble of creating, memorising and rehearsing some simple stuff, I think the number of times you'll find yourself with "nothing to say" is gonna be greatly reduced.

Like, the other week I was in the city, waiting at a pedestrian crossing, and this late 20s hb (pretty smokin hot) was walking down the street to my 9 o'clock. I looked over at her and held her gaze, and she sort of flicked her hair with her head and a tiny I-know-you're-checking-me-out grin sort of appeared. (A I-know-you're-checkign-me-out-and-I-like-it is what I need to freakn tell myself!) But... I was not only (my usual) apprehensive about approaching, nothing even came to mind to say.

Of course, later, as always happens, I was struck by l'esprit d'escalier' and I thought of a number of simple and even kind of witty (but still simple) things to say. So if I was better prepared beforehand, it would obviously help.

 

[everywomanshero]

You can open with damn near anything. It's best not to spend anytime thinking about the opener in this situation, because it will only give you time to talk yourself out of approaching. Therefore, just use something generic you feel comfortable with:

"Is anyone using this chair?" then sit in it and start talking.

"I saw you over here and just had to come tell you that you have the most amazing ____"

Use any random opinion opener if you want to open groups without showing too much interest. Yes, they still work

"Hi, I'm ____" if you're really nervous just try that a few times and plow.


Honestly, if you practiced any of those enough you could make them work. If you have 500 openers in your head and none interalized, you are just going to start thinking "what should I say,,, what should I say???". If you want use the crapiest opener you can think of, that way you have nowhere to go but up =) Later on you can worry about formulating the perfect opener for XYZ situation (if you still care to).

 

[GamePlan]

You seem to be moving along really nicely.

To be honest, I can tell I am making progress, but moving along really nicely is probably just how it reads. But in reality it took me more than walking around for a whole hour before I finally got to hi the one chick.

However, as I 'set my goals higher' (hi'ing chicks, not random people), the other stuff seems to come easier (greeting random people). I guess it'll be similar once I move on to actual approaches and just say hi to chicks on the side. But dont let me overanalyze now

Have you been hit by the thought of "I can't understand what the hell I was ever afraid of" yet? Usually that's when you can tell you've really changed -- when your past seem "incomprehensible" to you.

I wouldn't say I've been hit by it, but I can tell my mind's changing..Sort of like when I tried the BC at first and finally overcame the obstacle to saying Hello to some total stranger in the park. and then did it a few more times..all of a sudden I was like: how come I was afraid of this?

And now, like when I said hi to the chick coming down the stairs it felt rather normal to hi her instead of not doing it. Or in the supermarket where I usually would have just passed the woman working there without saying a thing, saying hi sort of seemed more normal..and yeah I kinda get this feeling, that not approaching a girl, just because I hadn't known her is on the brink of being 'absurd' (can you use that word in English?lol).

This might sound as if I'm making progress faster than I actually am when you're reading this, but I definitely see how I'm changing a bit in that direction.

Oh and..your way of the opener seems nice, too. I guess I'd probably still just say "you coming from work?" cause it'd just feel more natural to me right now.


@everywomanshero: I understand what you mean, when you say you shouldn't hesitate but just say something. I totally agree with that..but before I was thinking a bit about improvising and what I could say in certain situations I just had no idea..like even the most simplistic thing I could have said.

Just like you knew the person already and aren't really approaching but just say something you'd say if you knew the person already. For example yesterday I was standing at the traffic light it was taking a bit long and I was about to say to the guy on the bike waiting next to me "Hasn't this traffic light been red like forever?!" lol. I didnt, but thats sort of what im moving towards..just becoming more talkative and considering it more normal to say something to people even if I dont know them (ohhh ohhh I dont know them LOL..it really is absurd how one can be so scared of that isnt it?)

But I think the "you coming from work?" or "glad work is over?" type of stuff is sort of like that. I mean I'm not trying to think up complex openers, but just some really simple stuff, that I can say spontaneously. I think a mistake might be if I was sitting at home thinking up creative openers. But Im just wondering like "what could I say to this person ,now?" "or to that chick?" etc.

 

[danielzxc]

I think a mistake might be if I was sitting at home thinking up creative openers. But Im just wondering like "what could I say to this person ,now?" "or to that chick?" etc.

Yeah I agree man. It's one thing to develop complex canned routines, but another thing altogether to just have some simple standard greetings or "lines" to use in certain situations, just to get the ball rolling. Dreaming up complex routines doesn't seem worth the time, because if she "zigs" where she was supposed to "zag", then your routine goes out the window.

 

[GamePlan]

TODAY SUCKED ASS...

I did Hi an older couple on like some narrow path...and right afterwards on the same path some jogger girl was coming my way, I hi'd her, too..which was okay, but I do realize, that doing that on some lonely path is way easier than doing it downtown...

and then I was walking around town for like 2 hours and chickened out about a million times...and in the end I hi' some guy in his 30's..

oh I also walked up to an okay looking chick waiting at a bus station asking her if she could tell me what time it is. I have to say that line was less awkward a couple of years ago when everybody didn't have a cellphone, yet haha.

And..like at one time I was crossing the street and a pretty hot chick (Id say an 8) was coming my way riding her bike she wanted to turn left was expecting me to cross the street but I waited in the middle of the street trying to let her pass by then she hesitated and I wanted to cross the street, but then she didn't hesitate anymore and the whole thing ended up in an awkward situation with the two of us laughing, but unfortunately she didn't stop, so it wasn't all that romantic or was it?;-)

And...I was walking past 2 street cafés were a female sales assitant (or well 2) was locking the chairs & tables together (does that make any sense in English?lol..u know so they wont get stolen)..and I made a point of turning around walking past them again and saying hi or maybe even something like "come on I'm not gonna steal those chairs", but the one was like overly busy and didn't look my way and the other one was gone...

Sooo many missed chances today...waaaaay too many.

I guess all of that sounds better (or well...less bad) than it actually was. Because walking around town for 2 hours without getting the job done is what I call stagnation. It really sucked

Next time got to be A LOT better!

P.S.: You might laugh, but when I'm doing all this my lips start to get dry and stuff which makes it harder for me to actually say something. Talk about the mind controlling the body, huh? I did make a point of taking one of those..umm no idea what its called in English...with me to solve that problem.

 

[GamePlan]

@Daniel:

Dreaming up complex routines doesn't seem worth the time, because if she "zigs" where she was supposed to "zag", then your routine goes out the window.

Yeah, plus..I think it really doesn't matter...I'm not really looking to have supreme game right away and blow a girl's mind everytime I talk to them..all I really wanna learn for now is to actually say SOMETHING to them lol and approach. Sort of bridge the gap between not talking and talking haha.

Btw, Daniel..I'm not trying to be pushy or something, but you said you wanted to approach a girl by monday? Just in case you haven't done it by then..why don't you do it like myself and start with greeting strangers or just hi'ing chicks? Like with baby steps..and if u realize u find it really easy u can always move on quickly..but maybe gradually building up to a level where it's easier to approach might be easier for you, too? I know I'd have a super hard time trying to approach right away..and I know once I feel comfortable saying Hi to every chick, who just looks at me (or well even if she doesn't freakin' look at me..), approaching will feel easier, because that's already half of it (in my mind at least).

NOTE: I just realized something: One of the things, that keeps me from saying hi to chicks even if they dont look at me is that I feel awkward greeting random people who don't even look at me living in a rather small town..where everybody knows everybody through 2 friends..that's a little bit of a problem for me. Next time I think I'll go to the bigger city close to where I live..there I won't have an excuse to just say "Hi" to chicks not looking my way.

 

[greenlake]

wow a lot of stuffs to read here. i don't even know which one are approaches. but if you are still suffering form approach anxiety then i would recommend indirect opener or a memorized line. u should not care about the convo at this time. try to focus on your body language when u approach them. ask urself: r u relax, walking too fast, chest forward, feet wide, genuine smile, voice tone, ur voice speed and eye contacts. then just use whatever line u want. seriously, u're already ahead of most guys(in this forum or in ur life) because u actually taking action and have your own approach journal.

 

[Agent Zero]

I don't have any specific advice, but a couple things I can say just from my own experiences. I suck at approaches when I am thinking about approaching, it usually just flows naturally when I am going about my business and decide to approach. Forced approaches don't work well in my experience, but they can (ex. brak86 and donjose). Actually I will just say forced approaches are kinda like the next level of game, but most guys feel anxious just walking around looking to approach. The catch-22 though is you have to try to do forced approaching first so you get in the mindset of approaching in your daily life. I think even a couple forced approaches really help you get over your barriers once you see chicks be nice to you, then you feel more comfortable approaching in daily life. Here's kinda what I mean in graph form:

Practice forced approaches -> girls are nice, feel it's okay to approach, but too nervous and still feels weird to go out and "sarge", but daily approaches start to happen naturally -> do a # of daily approaches then feel comfortable "sarging" -> master pimp you can sarge and approach chicks all day no prob

 

[GamePlan]

Just realized the title is a bit misleading as I'm not yet doing approaches. My gameplan is as follows:

1)getting used to saying Hi to strangers (this was a very hard part for me, as I could have never really pictured myself greeting a complete stranger as silly as it sounds..but I finally overcame it and am now fairly used to it)

2)getting used to saying Hi to (hot) chicks. I finally did the first one 3 or so days ago and still have some work to do before I can say I'm used to it.
Also I'm already thinking up situational stuff I could say to start a conversation, as I "never knew what to say" blabla .

3 will be) just approaching girls.

Other than that I dont have any plans as Im rather comfortable once Im talking to a girl and dont have any issues asking for the number or anything..just got major approaching issues

@Agent Zero: You got that name because of Gilbert?

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

i'm glad ur working ur way up. Thats the best way to do it.
Its what i did. My social anxiety was prolly alot worse than urs. It took therapy for me to get out of it. Its funny how nowadays, i think its silly how Social Anxiety happens....but i understand why we are afraid of it sometimes.

Keep the pace of getting more use to saying hi's to where it is second nature, then little by little get a bit out of ur comfort zone(Approaching) and bam....u'll be able to approach even with nervousness.