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Friendzone is a MYTH

manfrombelow

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Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving. You have absolutely zero chance of dating her or fvcking her because you either failed a sh!t test, wasn't her "type", or screwed your game up some how.

When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.
Couldn't agree more!!!
 

MatureDJ

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There is nothing inherently wrong with FriendZoneMaxxing if the chick is not involved with anyone else - in such a situation, she is involved with you, just at a low level; this could actually be a good thing in that such a chick would not have a high body count. Of course, the downside is that such a chick could be looking to trade up on the side, in which case you would be a Beta-in-Waiting. :mad: Obviously, such a chick is not worthy of OneitisMaxxing, so the FriendZoner should continue to try to get other plates - and only get going with her if she is ready to escalate the relationship. And certainly a FriendZoner must not tolerate the chick talking about other men as romantic possibilities; the FriendZoner must make it clear that he does not with to hear about that (doing this would actually be passing a sheet test).

Let's face the facts, non-Chad-tier men cannot win by standard PlateMaxxing - having a slow-burn relationship is better than nothing. Indeed, I could see the situation in which the PUA maintains a harem of FriendPlates, thereby introducing competition game in his harem to motivate one (or more) to start sexing him.
 
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Aesthetix29

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Being friends with women just doesn’t work for me. It just doesn’t. Usually what happens (twice) is we start out liking each other and I try to take it to the next level (thinking it’s going somewhere) only for them to keep shutting me down. So I am of the mindset “ok she was liking me, I’ve tried to move this along but now it’s like she doesn’t like me anymore” and then comes the “I want to be friends” but they usually aren’t that direct about it. The only way that has ever worked for me is to meet a girl (cold approach) and get her out as soon as possible and as long as she doesn’t shut down my advances I never get friendzoned or rejected. The problem is the two girls that friendzoned me had just gotten out of a relationship and we went on dates and looking back now I was just there to fill a void. They weren’t really attracted to me since they wouldn’t let it go further than casual dating. Then they friendzoned me but yet we’re still very aggressive in keeping in contact with me. That’s confusing as sh!t. Sorry it just is. It’s immature women that do that anyways I’ve learned. I like the women that can reject me and let me go about my way. I refuse to be friends with women now due to bad experiences. I want nothing to do with their friendship and they can shove it up their ass for all I care.
Bro this is exactly what happened to me ... I’d rather just move on, I made my move she went all weird on me, and expects me too just stick around and be her mate .. not happening. I mean we was doing all the things that couples do except the sex ... like even now she keeps messaging asking what I’m up to and do I want to go on walks days out etc. It’s weird. She loves the attention. In fact she thrives off it, I now see it for what it is (breadcrumbs) even on social media it’s all about the likes. But she’s not even that pretty especially without the makeup. I’m not going to help her get on that pedestal ... she even has her very own minions (orbiters) that like everything she puts on social media .. like it’s the same people all the time ha ha.

Took me a while to realise this. But now I’m outside the box, can see it a mike off.

Watch the jealousy kick in once I meet someone else!
 

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samspade

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Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving. You have absolutely zero chance of dating her or fvcking her because you either failed a sh!t test, wasn't her "type", or screwed your game up some how.

When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.
Hasn't happened to me. I don't project this kind of energy, so it's not my reality. This may be why some guys believe the FZ is real and others see it as a frame fail. It's just not a part of my vocabulary. (Some guys are defining it as simping, which is different.)

Note, this doesn't mean I fukk every girl I meet. Just means that I don't put myself in the "friendzone" or frame my dynamic with a girl that way.

IME, sex with female friends has been a net positive. Not everything has to be about dating.
 

Scars

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Hasn't happened to me. I don't project this kind of energy, so it's not my reality. This may be why some guys believe the FZ is real and others see it as a frame fail. It's just not a part of my vocabulary. (Some guys are defining it as simping, which is different.)

Note, this doesn't mean I fukk every girl I meet. Just means that I don't put myself in the "friendzone" or frame my dynamic with a girl that way.

IME, sex with female friends has been a net positive. Not everything has to be about dating.
I doubt this. You're trying to tell me that 100% of the women you meet and approach all have sex with you? I call BS.

You've definitely been friend-zoned. We all have.

You can project any kind of "energy" you want. If a woman decides she doesn't wanna fvck you, there is slim chance you can change that. I'm not saying it's impossible, but your odds are better spent on obtaining a new chick.

Usually I agree with you on things samspade.. but I don't know where you're going with things here. Maybe you're saying you don't "allow" women to friendzone you. Sure. Maybe you see it coming before it happens and eject.. that is a fair statement. But to say you've never been "friendzoned" ever and that it's "not in your vocabulary".. calm on man.

I've been here since 2007 and you've been here since 2008. We need to help these youngsters, not brag about ourselves. We all know you got game. You've proved that many times over.
 
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LARaiders85

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I doubt this. You're trying to tell me that 100% of the women you meet and approach all have sex with you? I call BS.

You've definitely been friend-zoned. We all have.

You can project any kind of "energy" you want. If a woman decides she doesn't wanna fvck you, there is slim chance you can change that. I'm not saying it's impossible, but your odds are better spent on obtaining a new chick.

Usually I agree with you on things samspade.. but I don't know where you're going with things here. Maybe you're saying you don't "allow" women to friendzone you. Sure. Maybe you see it coming before it happens and eject.. that is a fair statement. But to say you've never been "friendzoned" ever and that it's "not in your vocabulary".. calm on man.

I've been here since 2007 and you've been here since 2008. We need to help these youngsters, not brag about ourselves. We all know you got game. You've proved that many times over.
I used to have 100% masculine interests and I was never friendzoned because I didn't bring anything to the table friends-wise to women. It really was dating or nothing. By friendzone I mean when they actually try to keep you around as friends, they had no reason to. I know a lot of guys in the construction business like this, they just rarely have female friends in general, much less friendzoned. Now, I have a lot of female friends and it happens often. I don't believe either way is better or worse.
 

Scars

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I used to have 100% masculine interests and I was never friendzoned because I didn't bring anything to the table friends-wise to women. It really was dating or nothing. By friendzone I mean when they actually try to keep you around as friends, they had no reason to. I know a lot of guys in the construction business like this, they just rarely have female friends in general, much less friendzoned. Now, I have a lot of female friends and it happens often. I don't believe either way is better or worse.
I agree. You can read my initial post. It's not the act of being friends with women, it's more/less how they perceive you as a friend.

Call it whatever you want, but there is a point during your communication with a woman where you've fvcked it up beyond saving. You have absolutely zero chance of dating her or fvcking her because you either failed a sh!t test, wasn't her "type", or screwed your game up some how.

When a girl has mentally decided that she will NEVER have sex with you, this is the friendzone. She's willing to be "friends" and allow you to orbit her, but she will never date you or truly respect you.
 

LARaiders85

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I agree. You can read my initial post. It's not the act of being friends with women, it's more/less how they perceive you as a friend.
These days I tend to get "clownzoned", meaning they keep me around for the entertainment with no intention to smash will fvck if drunk enough. Usually bi or taken women lol.
 

Robert28

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Bro this is exactly what happened to me ... I’d rather just move on, I made my move she went all weird on me, and expects me too just stick around and be her mate .. not happening. I mean we was doing all the things that couples do except the sex ... like even now she keeps messaging asking what I’m up to and do I want to go on walks days out etc. It’s weird. She loves the attention. In fact she thrives off it, I now see it for what it is (breadcrumbs) even on social media it’s all about the likes. But she’s not even that pretty especially without the makeup. I’m not going to help her get on that pedestal ... she even has her very own minions (orbiters) that like everything she puts on social media .. like it’s the same people all the time ha ha.

Took me a while to realise this. But now I’m outside the box, can see it a mike off.

Watch the jealousy kick in once I meet someone else!
She’s most likely a manipulator or a narcissist. I fell for that crap with one of the girls that friendzoned me. I fell for it because I’d never had experience with a woman who was a master manipulator. Now I’m skeptical about ALL women after that experience. Believe me when I tell you nothing will change if you hangout with her, you won’t date her or get to have sex, she’s just setting you up to be used down the road. All those guys that like her stuff? They were all in your position at one time, so just remember that. She’s trying to make you be one of them. Looking back on my experience it all makes so much sense now.
 

samspade

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I doubt this. You're trying to tell me that 100% of the women you meet and approach all have sex with you? I call BS.

You've definitely been friend-zoned. We all have.

You can project any kind of "energy" you want. If a woman decides she doesn't wanna fvck you, there is slim chance you can change that. I'm not saying it's impossible, but your odds are better spent on obtaining a new chick.

Usually I agree with you on things samspade.. but I don't know where you're going with things here. Maybe you're saying you don't "allow" women to friendzone you. Sure. Maybe you see it coming before it happens and eject.. that is a fair statement. But to say you've never been "friendzoned" ever and that it's "not in your vocabulary".. calm on man.

I've been here since 2007 and you've been here since 2008. We need to help these youngsters, not brag about ourselves. We all know you got game. You've proved that many times over.
Definitely not... I had said "Note, this doesn't mean I fukk every girl I meet." I've struck out more times than I know. So - didn't mean to come across as bragging.

Agreed, I want to help anyone who's in this situation, but I think it's far more mental and personal than most guys think. Like so many things, it comes down to frame and sense of abundance.

So many guys think women put them in the attracted/not attracted category. My experience tells me it's much more fluid. Many women won't be available - due to a variety of possible factors: Boyfriend, early morning plans, seeing other men, your energy is off, her job, etc. etc. If I take my shot and she says no, that's cool, it's not happening now. That doesn't mean I say "welp, I'm friendzoned." Also doesn't mean I hang around waiting like a simp.

If she wants to be buddies and bring value to my life and orbit me, that's great. As long as it's a net positive for me. Girls can bring plenty of value besides sex - a guy with abundance should know this. I've had them introduce me to other hot friends, for instance. And yes, I've slept with girls I considered friends - so I know it's not some permanent state. Women live moment to moment. Guys want to categorize everything so we have the 'friendzone.'

I 100% respect guys who say they're not interested in female friends, if they're saying so from a place of genuine abundance. Same goes for guys who say they're cool with female friends. I think the danger is in accepting or rejecting something from a scarcity mindset - that's all. Almost everything is about frame, and the so-called 'friendzone' is no different. This is something pop culture served up (as a clever pun) and now men just freely accept it as fact instead of thinking about how they can better react to it. Nobody has to be friends with anybody, but I'm sure we've all read accounts here of guys spitefully rejecting friendship just to get the 'W' and save face. They're still in her frame.

I'm a little groggy today so maybe not explaining myself well but I think men do themselves a disservice when they take this line of thinking. No we won't fukk everyone, but a guy can do a lot better than "I'm friendzoned."
 

Velasco

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Authenticity is often preached here. but if the guy approaching a girl in cold approach context. He likes what she looks like physically. They talk. But she is not interested in him sexually. If he goes the friend route. He is being inauthentic. Because what he really wants is to fvck her.

The friends thing where girls introduce you to other hot friends is either

A) a social circle phenomenon. Where one example is the guy is friends with one of the girls she is friends with. The guy is funny/cool but she is just not attracted to him. She and her other friends can provide him preselection walking into a club together. Invite him to parties (again if he's cool). But will not fvck him. This is the classic friendzoned (you will not fvck her but there is some benefits if you just forget about that possiblity and focus on the net postives of being friends with her).

B). a girl you are already fvcking with some bi-curiosity. Introduce you to girls who they'd wouldn't mind having a threesome with.

C). A girl in a cold approach setting with her friends. The girl is not available but knows one of the girls in the group who is available and throws you on her for an easy lay.

The context where you approach a hot girl, let's say out on the street where she is walking somewhere. And she gives you her number. But later reveals thru text, she is in a relationship. This is the authenticity incongruence. Do you really want to keep talking to her now that she just told you she's happily in a relationship? ("Oh how long have you guys been together?") Or are you just doing so because you know ok not now but maybe in the future she will be available so I'll keep talking to her. Not authentic friendship. It's just a means to eventually sleeping with her.
 

Pandora

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Be aware most women are a rubix cube of emotion and indecision you could waste months or years trying to figure out wtf she wants , its just not worth going down the rabbit hole

Find one that wants to fvck you , and build the rest from there
This is gold brotha. This is really all we need to know about dating. Its simple but difficult to follow.
 

SW15

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I used to have 100% masculine interests and I was never friendzoned because I didn't bring anything to the table friends-wise to women. It really was dating or nothing. By friendzone I mean when they actually try to keep you around as friends, they had no reason to. I know a lot of guys in the construction business like this, they just rarely have female friends in general, much less friendzoned. Now, I have a lot of female friends and it happens often. I don't believe either way is better or worse.
I don't have any female friends I am attracted to. Over time, I have received few "Let's Just Be Friends" offers. The few I have received have all been rejected.
 

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Aesthetix29

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I have this 1 female friend that I like and She knows it and plays on it all the time. Like we do things together and it’s just sad, for some reason I can’t break the cycle ... I’m like a proper simpleton .. she calls I run WTAF ha ha

I really need to just break away from it and move on but every time I do .. she messages me after like a week or 2 of absence to see what I’m up to and if I want to go to such a place ... she’s just dangling the carrot.

Now I don’t want to block her number as that comes off weak etc ..

I just really need to break this cycle somehow and move on to the next but don’t want come across as a douche.

She’s one of these that thrives of attention and validation. That’s more than enough for her.
 

samspade

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I have this 1 female friend that I like and She knows it and plays on it all the time. Like we do things together and it’s just sad, for some reason I can’t break the cycle ... I’m like a proper simpleton .. she calls I run WTAF ha ha

I really need to just break away from it and move on but every time I do .. she messages me after like a week or 2 of absence to see what I’m up to and if I want to go to such a place ... she’s just dangling the carrot.

Now I don’t want to block her number as that comes off weak etc ..

I just really need to break this cycle somehow and move on to the next but don’t want come across as a douche.

She’s one of these that thrives of attention and validation. That’s more than enough for her.
I would boil this down to its essence. Is your relationship (however defined) with her a net positive, or negative, for you?

For me, if I decide it's causing more harm than good, I would put it on ice. I'd just stay busy and politely decline meeting with her. I don't think it's douchey to be busy, and I'd just tell her as much.

Or if she presses, I'd just tell her why. "But I don't want to seem butt-hurt!" some guys say. Who says you have to? It's a simple fact: I'm attracted, you're not, better that we don't hang out for now. Anything that comes out of your mouth can be framed from either a high value or low value position. As long as you can forget about any expectations, you can handle it however you like.
 

Aesthetix29

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I would boil this down to its essence. Is your relationship (however defined) with her a net positive, or negative, for you?

For me, if I decide it's causing more harm than good, I would put it on ice. I'd just stay busy and politely decline meeting with her. I don't think it's douchey to be busy, and I'd just tell her as much.

Or if she presses, I'd just tell her why. "But I don't want to seem butt-hurt!" some guys say. Who says you have to? It's a simple fact: I'm attracted, you're not, better that we don't hang out for now. Anything that comes out of your mouth can be framed from either a high value or low value position. As long as you can forget about any expectations, you can handle it however you like.
As it’s stands right it’s obviously doing more harm than good because everything time we go out I’m expecting more and the time I’m putting into this could be put elsewhere, but then on the other side we go to nice places and it’s good to get out and see new places and I enjoy it etc ... but I defiantly want more. Honestly it’s the weirdest thing .. it’s like we do everything a couple would do minus the sex.

I think I’m going to try and take a step back and be more busy with my time, hoping to get back in the gym this week or next as I’m not very well atm.

I’ve made some pretty big changes in the last few months with my lifestyle and very proud of that

My next phase is to get back into good shape and start dating again but I can’t do it when I’m being strung along by her if that makes sense.

I don’t want to cut ties completely but I just don’t want to be her go to simpleton guy who orbits and gives her the validation and attention she craves with nothing in return.

Just wanted some opinions on how to go about it without ghosting her really and still come across as alpha ha.
 

LARaiders85

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Just wanted some opinions on how to go about it without ghosting her really and still come across as alpha ha.
I have a lot of close female friends and they ghost me 100% of the time when they find a new boyfriend. It's nothing personal, strictly business. Be scarce.

Ironically, the only way she will see you as alpha is if you ghost her for a new woman.
 

samspade

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As it’s stands right it’s obviously doing more harm than good because everything time we go out I’m expecting more and the time I’m putting into this could be put elsewhere, but then on the other side we go to nice places and it’s good to get out and see new places and I enjoy it etc ... but I defiantly want more. Honestly it’s the weirdest thing .. it’s like we do everything a couple would do minus the sex.

I think I’m going to try and take a step back and be more busy with my time, hoping to get back in the gym this week or next as I’m not very well atm.

I’ve made some pretty big changes in the last few months with my lifestyle and very proud of that

My next phase is to get back into good shape and start dating again but I can’t do it when I’m being strung along by her if that makes sense.

I don’t want to cut ties completely but I just don’t want to be her go to simpleton guy who orbits and gives her the validation and attention she craves with nothing in return.

Just wanted some opinions on how to go about it without ghosting her really and still come across as alpha ha.
Gotcha. I think just staying busy (or "busy" even if not) is the best method. Which you will be. Besides, if she's your buddy she should understand. ;)

Longer term, besides finding other plates, you can decide if you want her to orbit you. That's for down the road. I think the usual recipe - focusing on improvement, spinning plates, flirting with other girls in front of her, friendzoning her (call her "buddy" etc.) will help reframe it for you once you're in the right state of mind. Conversely you can just let it go; you don't owe anyone access to your time.

Anything you say or do is fine as long as it's high value and outcome-independent. Any time you start thinking of yourself as a simp or an orbiter, flip it - you're the Sun in your system, she's out there spinning around you like everyone else.
 
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