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Friendzone is a MYTH

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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You’re right but you’ve never met a master manipulator too. You aren’t going to outsmart someone that’s perfected their manipulative ways over YEARS. You just aren’t. They didn’t get to be good at what they do by not honing their craft. They’ve perfected it.
No, actually manipulation is very easy to call out when you know what to look for, I've gone into extensive length on manipulation on this forum, or what is alottable since apparently we don't employ manipulation here.

Making yourself unavailable is manipulation, this is why having a purpose is preached here, because when it's authentic it's value not manipulation.

So there is often a different of tangible authenticity when dealing with manipulation, but again, it's easy to recognize and deal with when you know what your looking for
 

Robert28

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No, actually manipulation is very easy to call out when you know what to look for, I've gone into extensive length on manipulation on this forum, or what is alottable since apparently we don't employ manipulation here.

Making yourself unavailable is manipulation, this is why having a purpose is preached here, because when it's authentic it's value not manipulation.

So there is often a different of tangible authenticity when dealing with manipulation, but again, it's easy to recognize and deal with when you know what your looking for
True but being unavailable is not the only form of manipulation. I don’t call out manipulation anymore, I just walk away and ghost now. At this stage of my life the women I deal with should be grown and mature, if they’re trying to manipulate me into borrowing money, get free dates, etc they’re wasting their time not mine.
 

Reyaj

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This is a very interesting thread...

In my experience I have found the following..

The friendzone absolutely exists but it's really just a euphemism for non sexual attraction.

For the most part it comes down to physical attraction... She'll know right away if she feels this towards you or not.

If she does feel physical attraction you don't have to necessarily make your intentions known right away but, you do have a window to do it... If you act too asexual during this window she will lose attraction for you over time.

You can be "friends" with a woman and hook up with her eventually but she needs to be attracted to you... I've had this happen with women I've met who were already in relationships. They would say that they were seeing someone but I shook it off and said we could be friends... and I eventually ended up hooking with them. This is because they were attracted to me though and only were trying to act moral/ethical from a conscious level.

I put "friends" in quotes above because I wasn't really interested in being their friend and said it so they would lower their guard while I continued my game. Had I really been their friend I would have respected their relationship and wouldn't have made a move, thus landing in the real friend zone :)
 
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CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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True but being unavailable is not the only form of manipulation. I don’t call out manipulation anymore, I just walk away and ghost now. At this stage of my life the women I deal with should be grown and mature, if they’re trying to manipulate me into borrowing money, get free dates, etc they’re wasting their time not mine.
You’re right but you’ve never met a master manipulator too. You aren’t going to outsmart someone that’s perfected their manipulative ways over YEARS. You just aren’t. They didn’t get to be good at what they do by not honing their craft. They’ve perfected it.
You seem to be contradicting yourself between these 2 posts.

The fact that you are actively avoiding women who manipulate you is a problem because you don't need to do that, you need to tell them you understand what they are doing and have them walk away, because some will, but most care about their reputation more than anything else and when that is on the line, like it is when you out her for being manipulative, she is going to immediately submit, your free at that point to run her through, let her purchase your silence.
 

BadBoy89

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"Friendzone" is only a term used if you want a deep, full-blown, intimate committed relationship with the girl.

If a man is in Spain, just met the hottest girl, wants to f her, but has to leave in Japan in 24 hours, what's her excuse going to be? "I only like him as a friend?"

As was said, if a man waits too long to make a move, the girl will lose interest and tell everyone the man is weak or gay. If the man moves too fast, the girl will tell the Police he put forth some unwanted sexual advances and he will be arrested.

Pretty sweet deal to be a young, hot, fertile woman. She can destroy the man's life in any circumstance.
 

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GreatHornedOwl

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Igetit!

You're quoting what I'm saying, but you're not really addressing anything. Like the woman who was in a relationship for 3 years and met someone else. You just focused on "spilling your guts" but you never went back to the behavior of the guy she left him for. Do you think that guy directly expressed his interest and the woman just up and left her LTR? I want to know your answer.

Then one of your rebuttals was you assuming we're talking about a girl we've never seen before. Where is this coming from?? I never said that in any of my posts. We're talking "friendzone" here. It's in the topic of my thread. I suspect you're well aware of this, but again couldn't offer an explanation, so you had to skirt around the issue.

My point in mentioning Tinder is that it's a dating app in which guys go DIRECT. As soon as you message them, they know you're interested. No beating around the bush, no chance to land in the dreaded "friendzone". If this is the best approach... we're talking DIRECT vs INDIRECT... why doesn't this work? Why do guys have to swipe hundreds or thousands of times to get matches? Then maybe they get a reply, maybe they don't. Same thing happens with every other guy.

Just so there's no confusion: We're not debating cold approach vs. dating site vs. social circle game.

We are speaking in terms of DIRECT vs. INDIRECT which ties in with "friendzone", because apparently the only way to avoid it is by directly expressing your interest right away, otherwise she only sees you as a friend.

What I'm trying to convey in the big picture here is this...

The problem with going DIRECT (in whatever context you apply it to), is it primarily focuses on YOUR EMOTIONS. You think a girl is pretty, you want her phone number, so you can sleep with her. Just because you feel that way, doesn't mean she feels that way. You claim to understand this but I'm not sure you do.

Going indirect is not about a lack of confidence, or being in a zone that doesn't exist, it's about understanding the complexity of human emotions, and DISPLAYING desirable behavior that will raise those emotions in someone else.

Direct -- Your emotions
Indirect -- Displaying behavior to raise her emotions

I will give you an example of this:

Recently I hung out with this girl. She wanted to bring friends along. I know for a fact most guys here would object to that. In other words, their emotions would have risen. They would have called the girl out on it and insisted on a 1 vs. 1 otherwise it's not a date. Now the woman knows the guys emotions are elevated. I kept my emotions out of the situation because I knew my objective was to raise hers. We met up and hung out with her friends. I didn't flirt, I didn't kino, or any of that. I displayed my social skills through attractive body language, voice tonality, conversational skills, and showing her I know how to have fun. She really started warming up, laughing, and I could tell she didn't want the night to end. That's when I made my move... I told her I had to get going, jumped in my Uber and left.

I was going to text her the following Wednesday to hang out that weekend, but she beat me to it.

You raise a woman's emotions by keeping yours in check.
 

Velasco

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Like the woman who was in a relationship for 3 years and met someone else. You just focused on "spilling your guts" but you never went back to the behavior of the guy she left him for. Do you think that guy directly expressed his interest and the woman just up and left her LTR? I want to know your answer
He probably did show her that he was interested but she denied him because she was sexually unavailable (all about that guy) at the time. Guy shes in a relationship with gets boring/losing interest on her way out, she reaches out to new guy. he notices the window of opportunity suddenly open up and he takes advantage. Then it's "there's someone else."

Why do guys have to swipe hundreds or thousands of times to get matches? Then maybe they get a reply, maybe they don't. Same thing happens with every other guy
Aren't there a billion YouTubers talking about this? How the game is rigged and only the top guys get responses/matches while the bottom half gets basically nothing?
Recently I hung out with this girl. She wanted to bring friends along. I know for a fact most guys here would object to that
Because they know a lay is not going to happen resulting in a wasted evening they could have spent doing something else.

That's when I made my move... I told her I had to get going, jumped in my Uber and left.

I was going to text her the following Wednesday to hang out that weekend, but she beat me to it
Ironically I had a similar situation to this last month. Had a girl on my lap smoking weed outside in her backyard. I then noticed the time and realized it was getting close to me needing to get up for work so when she went to the bathroom I ordered myself a Lyft then excused myself. She texts me and calls me the next day to make sure I'm ok and asks if I'm married before asking to hang out again. But again. Girl was interested. I was interested. Lay wasn't there. So it was more a factor of it wasn't going to happen that night rather than don't show interest. Raise emotions instead.
 

GreatHornedOwl

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That other guy she left the 3 LTR for... was me. Never expressed interest. We were friends. Clicked well, got along. Made each other laugh. We were at work and I kissed her... 4 years after I met her. Of course I dealt with many women in between that period, but the point remains the same.

And Velasco - a lay didn't happen that night with the other girl... but it did happen eventually. Most guys would have nexted her. I'm sure the reason is going to be "because they moved on to a woman who didn't waste their time". How do we know a similar situation didn't happen with the next girl, and they nexted her too because they assumed she was wasting their time when they could have slept with her?

A lot of guys on this forum have emotional problems and abandonment issues. Their mentality I think stems from deep seated insecurities regarding vulnerability which manifests itself with a strong defense mechanism that is overly fine-tuned to detect rejection, often when it's not even there.
 

Igetit!

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Igetit!

You're quoting what I'm saying, but you're not really addressing anything. Like the woman who was in a relationship for 3 years and met someone else. You just focused on "spilling your guts" but you never went back to the behavior of the guy she left him for.
That's cause I don't know the behavior of the guy she left him for. There's too many possible variables as to why a woman would leave one relationship to go to someone else.

Maybe the new guy was rich and famous.
Maybe she was cheating for the past three months,then finally decided to leave her relationship for the new guy.
Maybe she was unhappy in her relationship and she left her boyfriend cause the grass "looked greener" on the other side.

I don't know. For all we know,SHE could have approached HIM. Too many variables to account for.


Do you think that guy directly expressed his interest and the woman just up and left her LTR? I want to know your answer.
Again...too many possible scenarios. But do I think a guy could express direct interest and a chick just up and leave her relationship? NO.

She might cheat,but I can't see her just up and leaving the relationship. My guess would be this.....

He could show interest in a TAKEN girl.....DIRECT interest,and that would cause a few things to happen within the girl. For one,she'd feel desired. Two,the guy's confidence may make her feel attracted to him. Three,since she's already in a relationship,the new guy is "forbidden fruit". That's a lot of NEW emotion swirling around in a girl,versus her somewhat normal,day to day relationship she already has.


No....I don't think a girl would just up and leave a relationship for some guy who just walks up to her showing interest. If he flirted with her OVER TIME......IN ADDITION TO showing interest the FIRST TIME HE MET HER......then yes,I could see her leaving her relationship for him sometime in the future.


I think your thinking may be influenced by Hollywood and movies. The type scenario where a guy meets a girl who's already in a relationship,he doesn't show any type of interest in her right off the bat..........just kinda hangs out and is there,while she's already dating someone.
She spends a few weeks or months complaining about her relationship to the new guy,then she ends her relationship.....and gets with the new guy. That doesn't typically happen. In the movies,yes.....on the LifeTime Network FOR WOMEN....yes. Not in real life.


Then one of your rebuttals was you assuming we're talking about a girl we've never seen before. Where is this coming from?? I never said that in any of my posts. We're talking "friendzone" here. It's in the topic of my thread. I suspect you're well aware of this, but again couldn't offer an explanation, so you had to skirt around the issue.
I'm not trying to skirt around the issue,I'm trying to UNDERSTAND it.

Generally,whenever someone talks about a girl.....my assumption is they mean someone NEW. I thought you meant dealing with the friendzone in the case of a NEW girl.....someone you don't know. Apparently,you mean with someone you ALREADY have had some sort of contact with.

My point in mentioning Tinder is that it's a dating app in which guys go DIRECT. As soon as you message them, they know you're interested. No beating around the bush, no chance to land in the dreaded "friendzone". If this is the best approach... we're talking DIRECT vs INDIRECT... why doesn't this work? Why do guys have to swipe hundreds or thousands of times to get matches?
Dude.....this IS LIFE. That's just how it is. If a hot chick is at a bar,and every 10 minutes a guy approaches her,well what.......you think she's going to say yes and have sex with all of them? My guess is most are going to get rejected.

I didn't set this up.....this is just how it is.

Look....if you know of a more effective way to gain a girl's interest,TELL ME........I'll listen.



Then maybe they get a reply, maybe they don't. Same thing happens with every other guy.

Just so there's no confusion: We're not debating cold approach vs. dating site vs. social circle game.

We are speaking in terms of DIRECT vs. INDIRECT which ties in with "friendzone", because apparently the only way to avoid it is by directly expressing your interest right away, otherwise she only sees you as a friend.
Sir......there's only TWO WAYS she can see you. You're either having sex with her......

or you're NOT. There's no in-between here. If you're going to REPEATEDLY be in her presence,laughing and talking with her,but NOT HAVING SEX/OR SHOWING ANY TYPE OF SEXUAL INTEREST........you WILL get friendzoned.....PEROID. It'll happen BY DEFAULT....because you're BONDING WITH HER ,FRIENDSHIP-WISE through the laughing and talking.

What I'm trying to convey in the big picture here is this...

The problem with going DIRECT (in whatever context you apply it to), is it primarily focuses on YOUR EMOTIONS. You think a girl is pretty, you want her phone number, so you can sleep with her. Just because you feel that way, doesn't mean she feels that way.
SIR.........I KNOW THIS. All you've done was just prove WHY the direct approach is better.

You say the problem with the direct approach is that it focuses on the guy's emotions...and just because I feel a certain way doesn't mean the girl does. Uhh......yeah...that's part of my point.

You're right.....I don't know HOW the girl feels. But if I express my interest,I'll immediately know where her feelings are at.


If she agrees,she's interested. If she doesn't agree,she's not. If she tap dances and won't give a clear answer,then I KNOW to move on.


Going indirect is not about a lack of confidence, or being in a zone that doesn't exist, it's about understanding the complexity of human emotions, and DISPLAYING desirable behavior that will raise those emotions in someone else.
Ok,I'll hear you out. And to be clear,you mean going indirect with a chick you ALREADY KNOW......right?

Ok,so about how long should the indirect method take?


I will give you an example of this:

Recently I hung out with this girl. She wanted to bring friends along. I know for a fact most guys here would object to that. In other words, their emotions would have risen. They would have called the girl out on it and insisted on a 1 vs. 1 otherwise it's not a date. Now the woman knows the guys emotions are elevated. I kept my emotions out of the situation because I knew my objective was to raise hers. We met up and hung out with her friends. I didn't flirt, I didn't kino, or any of that. I displayed my social skills through attractive body language, voice tonality, conversational skills, and showing her I know how to have fun. She really started warming up, laughing, and I could tell she didn't want the night to end. That's when I made my move... I told her I had to get going, jumped in my Uber and left.

I was going to text her the following Wednesday to hang out that weekend, but she beat me to it.

You raise a woman's emotions by keeping yours in check.

Ok,sooo..........whatever happened between you two AFTER you and all her friends went out? I agree that a man needs to keep his emotions in check. All I'm saying is being direct doesn't mean your emotions are OUT of check.
 

Igetit!

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That other guy she left the 3 LTR for... was me. Never expressed interest. We were friends. Clicked well, got along. Made each other laugh. We were at work and I kissed her... 4 years after I met her. Of course I dealt with many women in between that period, but the point remains the same.
So you were friends with a chick for 4 years,and 3 of those years,she was in a relationship. And I'm sure SHE KNEW you were/or had been dating other women the whole time you and her were friends....correct? Forbidden fruit.

Am curious as to HOW LONG the relationship with her lasted,though.

So you slept with a female "friend". Ok.

January 14,2018....guess what happened to me? I won a jackpot at a casino. Won $1,225. So guess what I did....

I QUIT my job. I won 1200 dollars in 5 minutes,setting in front of a machine. So I figured,why not just do that full-time?

Instead of a grueling 40 hour work week,making 15 bucks an hour...why not just plop down in front of a slot machine,where I could get a thousand bucks in 5 minutes? Makes sense....right? And it's not like it can't happen. I had the 1200 that PROVES it CAN be done.


NO.....I didn't quit my job. My point,is just because you had an exception to the rule work out for you doesn't mean it should be THE NORM. Yeah.....I won 1200 bucks. Am I going to quit my job and try to earn money that way,instead of having a job? Of course not.


You slept with a female friend. Ok.....but that's not the norm. And I wouldn't advocate a man getting a bunch of female friends and crossing his fingers,in hopes that one will let him sleep with her 4 years down the line (or whenever).


But you DO YOU. If your method works for you,that's all that matters.
 

Pandora

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The friendzone is when she has affection for you but not arousal. It does not mean you that she does not objectively find you attractive. She just does not find you sexually arousing.

They often love parading you around as their cute guy puppy dog. You only parade guys around that you find value in. They often get jealous when you smash their friends.

Remember not all friendzones are created equal. But they all need to be avoided. I was friendzoned MANY times in my 20s.
 

Bingo-Player

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My issue with the "freindzone" is that men spend a lot of time in them convincing themselves they may one day get a shot at the honey this is extremely detrimental to a mans conquering mindset

Girls like to play dumb with game like they haven't got a clue about anything but i can tell you now she will know EXACTLY where a man ranks on her pu$$Y priority list from the word go and if she doesn't think you are in the top 3 you are going straight into the orbiter zone

She may even feed him crumbs because she likes his attention ( have seen this a lot )

But once a guy that comes along and meets her physical / social value requirements her legs will open faster than trumps mouth

The only time I've ever seen a freindzone work for a man is when HE places her in it

Seduction of men is like oxygen to women if you aren't interested they HAVE to know why

Personally i like to know where i stand so i go fairly direct within say a week / two weeks of opening ,

If she complies and lets me touch her pu$$y then i know she is worth investing more time into building a connection with , if she doesn't i am not wasting time trying to convince her otherwise

Be aware most women are a rubix cube of emotion and indecision you could waste months or years trying to figure out wtf she wants , its just not worth going down the rabbit hole

Find one that wants to fvck you , and build the rest from there
 

EyeOnThePrize

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What an insane amount of overanalysis in this thread.

If being friends with a woman bothers you, then you're coming from a place of lack, simple as that. If you genuinely liked a girl and she didn't want to sleep with you, it wouldn't bother you. It only bothers you if you're taking the interactions extremely personally, as if it's some kind of validation you desperately need, and that's just incredibly selfish.

Some of you guys are putting an insane amount of pressure on yourselves. It's much more beneficial to network and have women in your social circles than simply cast them aside because they don't want to fuuck you. When they put you in the friendzone, what's wrong with doing the same?

I'm friends with some of my exes and I have girl friends in my social circles. Some of them want to fuuck me, some don't. Some of these girls tell me anything and everything, and I do the same with them. I could send a diick pic or literally anything and we could talk about it like it's nbd or goof around. I could randomly fuuck one if we're out having fun together, and who knows maybe it would spark something, or maybe we'd just be fwb.

You don't tolerate girls just to fuuck them, you find girls that you enjoy talking to and spending time with regardless of whether you have sex, that's wtf a friend is. If she's hot and sex happens, cool, but you shouldn't be so desperate for it that you're spending time with someone you don't even enjoy as a person.

Any time you sense yourself getting upset at 'just friends' go focus on yourself until you dgaf.

Some of these responses read as if the situation is out of your control, 'oh no she put me in the friendzone!' so what?! That attitude proves you really dgaf about her, so bullet dodged by her!

Besides, fwb is awesome. If a woman says she just wants to be friends, that doesn't always mean she doesn't want to fuuck, it means she doesn't want to date and have all that commitment nonsense with you, which is great! She may sense you're being clingy and feel turned off by it, so she picks friends to check you. Be casual, have fun. If something develops it'll happen naturally and effortlessly.

When a girl says she wants to be friends simply say k, and treat her like any other plutonic friend. If she's really fun then she'll still enjoy flirting and the occasional play.
 

samspade

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What an insane amount of overanalysis in this thread.

If being friends with a woman bothers you, then you're coming from a place of lack, simple as that. If you genuinely liked a girl and she didn't want to sleep with you, it wouldn't bother you. It only bothers you if you're taking the interactions extremely personally, as if it's some kind of validation you desperately need, and that's just incredibly selfish.

Some of you guys are putting an insane amount of pressure on yourselves. It's much more beneficial to network and have women in your social circles than simply cast them aside because they don't want to fuuck you. When they put you in the friendzone, what's wrong with doing the same?

I'm friends with some of my exes and I have girl friends in my social circles. Some of them want to fuuck me, some don't. Some of these girls tell me anything and everything, and I do the same with them. I could send a diick pic or literally anything and we could talk about it like it's nbd or goof around. I could randomly fuuck one if we're out having fun together, and who knows maybe it would spark something, or maybe we'd just be fwb.

You don't tolerate girls just to fuuck them, you find girls that you enjoy talking to and spending time with regardless of whether you have sex, that's wtf a friend is. If she's hot and sex happens, cool, but you shouldn't be so desperate for it that you're spending time with someone you don't even enjoy as a person.

Any time you sense yourself getting upset at 'just friends' go focus on yourself until you dgaf.

Some of these responses read as if the situation is out of your control, 'oh no she put me in the friendzone!' so what?! That attitude proves you really dgaf about her, so bullet dodged by her!

Besides, fwb is awesome. If a woman says she just wants to be friends, that doesn't always mean she doesn't want to fuuck, it means she doesn't want to date and have all that commitment nonsense with you, which is great! She may sense you're being clingy and feel turned off by it, so she picks friends to check you. Be casual, have fun. If something develops it'll happen naturally and effortlessly.

When a girl says she wants to be friends simply say k, and treat her like any other plutonic friend. If she's really fun then she'll still enjoy flirting and the occasional play.
Well said. Fear of the 'friendzone' (or simply being on friendly terms) is just another scarcity mindset. Women live from moment to moment. It doesn't mean I have to be her "girlfriend" and devote tons of time to her like a simp. It just means that in the now we're not in a sexual state. If what she brings to my life is still positive, I'm cool with it. If she's toxic OR if I recognize that I need distance (e.g. immediately post breakup), I do what's best for me. Otherwise I'm happy to let her orbit me and bring value in other ways to my life.
 

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3agle 3yes

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I agree that you don’t have to bang every woman you interact with, and you can be friends. It even gives you access to more women (her friends).

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding what a friend is.

A friend is purely platonic, someone who she confides her relationships and insecurities with, someone who “loves her no matter what”, and someone she would feel okay with talking about and showing her boyfriend to.

On the other hand, there are women you know and talk to, but they aren’t necessarily your friends.

I’d like to know how many genuine female friends you guys have gotten sexual with? And if it happened, did you notice her behaviour change?

I have a simple rule:

If you‘re her lover, you can’t be her friend.

If you’re her friend, you can’t be her lover.

And if you’re dumb enough to attempt both, then you’re her b!tch.
 

Guy69JackBlue

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What an insane amount of overanalysis in this thread.

If being friends with a woman bothers you, then you're coming from a place of lack, simple as that. If you genuinely liked a girl and she didn't want to sleep with you, it wouldn't bother you. It only bothers you if you're taking the interactions extremely personally, as if it's some kind of validation you desperately need, and that's just incredibly selfish.

Some of you guys are putting an insane amount of pressure on yourselves. It's much more beneficial to network and have women in your social circles than simply cast them aside because they don't want to fuuck you. When they put you in the friendzone, what's wrong with doing the same?

I'm friends with some of my exes and I have girl friends in my social circles. Some of them want to fuuck me, some don't. Some of these girls tell me anything and everything, and I do the same with them. I could send a diick pic or literally anything and we could talk about it like it's nbd or goof around. I could randomly fuuck one if we're out having fun together, and who knows maybe it would spark something, or maybe we'd just be fwb.

You don't tolerate girls just to fuuck them, you find girls that you enjoy talking to and spending time with regardless of whether you have sex, that's wtf a friend is. If she's hot and sex happens, cool, but you shouldn't be so desperate for it that you're spending time with someone you don't even enjoy as a person.

Any time you sense yourself getting upset at 'just friends' go focus on yourself until you dgaf.

Some of these responses read as if the situation is out of your control, 'oh no she put me in the friendzone!' so what?! That attitude proves you really dgaf about her, so bullet dodged by her!

Besides, fwb is awesome. If a woman says she just wants to be friends, that doesn't always mean she doesn't want to fuuck, it means she doesn't want to date and have all that commitment nonsense with you, which is great! She may sense you're being clingy and feel turned off by it, so she picks friends to check you. Be casual, have fun. If something develops it'll happen naturally and effortlessly.

When a girl says she wants to be friends simply say k, and treat her like any other plutonic friend. If she's really fun then she'll still enjoy flirting and the occasional play.
What kind of guy honestly wants to be platonic friends with an attractive girl? You must be really young to make a post like this.
 

Guy69JackBlue

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Well said. Fear of the 'friendzone' (or simply being on friendly terms) is just another scarcity mindset. Women live from moment to moment. It doesn't mean I have to be her "girlfriend" and devote tons of time to her like a simp. It just means that in the now we're not in a sexual state. If what she brings to my life is still positive, I'm cool with it. If she's toxic OR if I recognize that I need distance (e.g. immediately post breakup), I do what's best for me. Otherwise I'm happy to let her orbit me and bring value in other ways to my life.
In what environment are you interacting with them in a friendly way?

How old are you guys?
 

Robert28

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What kind of guy honestly wants to be platonic friends with an attractive girl? You must be really young to make a post like this.
It’s fine when you’re a teenager, maybe even college. But it’s fvcking weird when you’re in your 30’s and older and women talking about “let’s be friends”. No, let’s not. Fvck or get out. Guys don’t want to be friends because the favors and manipulation attempts that come with it.
 
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