Do women want to be led in 2019?

[oldmanofthesea]

And that is exactly what these types of women will push your direction once you become interest.

Its a mess and never/seldom worth it. Thats why they are instantly off my dating radar.

I agree, and it's certainly caused me a lot of struggles. If I could find easier, I would. But again, it is helping me grow and become more dominant, and it pushes me to never rely on a single girl and keep multiple plates spinning.

 

[AJ84]

Can’t stress enough that she really has to be sexually attracted to you first and foremost. Someone mentioned it earlier but if you don’t do it for her ‘down there’, she will have no interest in your leadership. It’s rarely the case that being a leader will make her wet for you, if she doesn’t already see you as f**kable. Women rarely pay attention to men they are not initially attracted to.

The sexual attraction is part of the desire to be led. You’re 80% there with that alone. The rest is how you make her feel.

We aren’t that complicated

 

[logicallefty]

Basically that right there. Most women don’t want men managing all aspects of their lives like they are incapable children, esp if they are established and managing their own lives well.

Yeah that’s right. Women who have not yet transitioned out of “Im Miss Independent “ mode like my post above discussed want to manage their life until the sh!t hits the fan. Then at that precise moment in time they will both blame a man or men for their problem(s), and, lean on a man or men to fix their sh!t. Women never OWN their problems and tackle them head on, bull horns to bull horns, like men do.

 

[Spaz]

I think it works backwards. A guy comes across as dominant acting, she feels an attraction pull, and THEN she backwards-rationalizes that he must be attractive for here to feel this way.

This attraction pull can also be created from social proof where people follow the guy's lead. He comes across as high-status and powerful. He has influence over people.

This is why a perceived "ugly" guy can walk into a social setting with hot women and have other women intrigued.

Female to male attraction is backwards rationalization.

It is that way.

Always has and always will.

 

[In2theGame]

I'll share a very recent story. Past 2 weekends I have been hanging with my girlfriend and her friends so it's been me in a group of 5 Women the last 2 weeks. We chill out at an outside midtown bar and I sit back and listen and hear the stories about guys they are seeing or looking to date and let me tell you, it's a complete & total disaster. They ask me about what guys mean when they say this and that and they also showed me some of the text the guys were sending them.... another big disaster. The guys had no fvcking clue what they were saying and all of these Women were talking like lost puppies looking for a Man to dominate them and lead them. They're all pretty sexy and make over 100K. (Finance/Banking)

My girlfriend knows I cut through the bull**** and knew I was about to start saying some straight up sh*t. I asked and told them this.... "I bet you girls are looking for a Man who isn't going to beat around the bush, be dominant over you and lastly give you one hard strong fvck"

Silence for 3 seconds...

Smiles on their faces started to emerge and they admitted to me "YES! I REALLY want that!" my girl looked at me with a smile as if to say "How did you know what they want" I pretty much asked them "Then why haven't you found any guys like that?" They just told me honestly that "Most guys are pussies". I left it at that. Funny enough, they started talking about how they like to *** multiple times etc. lol the conversations got pretty sexual.

This goes back to what I have always thought since I went single in early 2011, Women want to be led and dominated. Some of the hottest chicks I hooked up with over the years all told me this in one way or the other. I have probably come across a handful of Women who feel as though they are so superior and so powerful and independent but at the end of the day, They can't fight their biological makeup and needs. Man > Woman is how life started and how it will always be. This is just my opinion.

Overall, Women want and need to be led.

 

[skinnyguy]

If you're saying you have no choice in the matter, then it's a total cop-out.

We all have free will, men.



"Circumstances do not create the man. Man creates his own circumstances."

We are all 100% responsible for where we are in life right now as we become what we think about and act in a manner that's consistent with our dominant belief set.

try telling that to the autistic kid who was born without limbs

 

[AJ84]

I think it works backwards. A guy comes across as dominant acting, she feels an attraction pull, and THEN she backwards-rationalizes that he must be attractive for here to feel this way.

This attraction pull can also be created from social proof where people follow the guy's lead. He comes across as high-status and powerful. He has influence over people.

This is why a perceived "ugly" guy can walk into a social setting with hot women and have other women intrigued.

Female to male attraction is backwards rationalization.

If a girl looked like Rosie O’Donnell but was very feminine, sweet, submissive would you date her?

Woman are the same. We have eyes and enjoy f**king men who are physically attractive.

When I say attraction, I mean a guy who she will think about when she touches herself. Woman don’t fantasize about being lead by ugly men, no matter how powerful they are or how much social status they have.


A woman f**king a man, and a woman wanting to f**k a man, are two very very different things. The latter is much easier to lead. The former is using the guy. Women use ugly men who have power and status all the time. Who is really leading who in that scenario?

I really don’t think men should underestimate how being physically attractive to her will make things easier for him.

Women date hot broke guys with no social status all the time.

 

[In2theGame]

A woman f**king a man, and a woman wanting to f**k a man, are two very very different things. The latter is much easier to lead. The former is using the guy. Women use ugly men who have power and status all the time. Who is really leading who in that scenario?

I really don’t think men should underestimate how being physically attractive to her will make things easier for him.

Women date hot broke guys with no social status all the time.

This is the problem with the money argument. Men saying, Women want a Man that has a fat wallet however i have found that to be true and untrue depending on what she's trying to get.

Using him for c0ck or for financial reasons. When I was at a point of being very broke in early 2012, I was getting the most pvssy because my physique and face did it for me.

However Men who don't have the best looks can also dominate with arousing sexual talk. Many Women get soaking wet just by listening to a Man talk dirty to them causing her mind to visualize what he's saying. This is why erotica novels and sex stories are loved by so many Women. They love to visualize how they'd be getting fvcked and if a guy knows how to talk that talk, he will still do VERY well even if he's not up there with his looks. A Man that has both the looks and verbal smoothness that can get the panties soaked can pretty much swim in pvssy.

 

[Spaz]

If a girl looked like Rosie O’Donnell but was very feminine, sweet, submissive would you date her?

Woman are the same. We have eyes and enjoy f**king men who are physically attractive.

When I say attraction, I mean a guy who she will think about when she touches herself. Woman don’t fantasize about being lead by ugly men, no matter how powerful they are or how much social status they have.


A woman f**king a man, and a woman wanting to f**k a man, are two very very different things. The latter is much easier to lead. The former is using the guy. Women use ugly men who have power and status all the time. Who is really leading who in that scenario?

I really don’t think men should underestimate how being physically attractive to her will make things easier for him.

Women date hot broke guys with no social status all the time.

Explain Mike Jagger's legendary appeal to women when we all know he's ugly as fvck.

You're spinning again AJ.

You'd rather have men look pretty then manly so that they submit to women by being feminized.

Mike Jagger is just so manly to plenty of women that they can't help but be attracted to him.

 

[AJ84]

This is the problem with the money argument. Men saying, Women want a Man that has a fat wallet however i have found that to be true and untrue depending on what she's trying to get.

Using him for c0ck or for financial reasons. When I was at a point of being very broke in early 2012, I was getting the most pvssy because my physique and face did it for me.

However Men who don't have the best looks can also dominate with arousing sexual talk. Many Women get soaking wet just by listening to a Man talk dirty to them causing her mind to visualize what he's saying. This is why erotica novels and sex stories are loved by so many Women. They love to visualize how they'd be getting fvcked and if a guy knows how to talk that talk, he will still do VERY well even if he's not up there with his looks. A Man that has both the looks and verbal smoothness that can get the panties soaked can pretty much swim in pvssy.

Yeah. When I say attractive I don’t mean he has to be a Greek god. But this belief that women want to f**k men as long as he has power now matter if he is ugly is delusional, and maybe a coping mechanism for some men I don’t know.

To be clear, I am pointing out the difference between f**king and wanting to f**k. I’ll be honest that some men won’t know the difference because women are good at faking attraction when they want your money and other resources.

I never said women are angels, some are very very good at tapping into the male ego by using their charms. I mean for most of our existence on earth, it’s the only card women had to play with, so it’s well f**king honed.

 

[Dash Riprock]

try telling that to the autistic kid who was born without limbs

Read: https://ronheagy.com/

He's a friend of mine.

 

[AJ84]

Your description of attraction is on the superficial level.

No matter how good looking a guy is, he still has to offer value, be non-needy, and internally dominant....otherwise the woman has low standards or disrespecting herself by going for a good looking loser. This says more about the woman than the guy.

At the same time, he can be an ugly and still offer value, be non-needy, and internally dominant and some women can be attracted to him. People will be drawn to him. He empowers people. He is a natural leader. He has innate qualities that makes him influential.

Just because a guy is ugly, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. The beauty of female to male attraction is that women are MUCH MORE forgiving when it comes to looks then men are.

Men are almost completely superficial. You need to be hot....and tolerable(meaning feminine). NO EXCEPTIONS.....unless we are desperate and have no other options.

I’m going to be frank with you, because what I like about this site is people don’t sugar coat stuff. (and this isn’t directed at you personally, just a response to your post).

That’s the kind of sh*t ugly guys say. It’s like the fat girl who thinks, “well, what he really wants is to be treated good.” We all know the fat girl isn’t going to sell herself to a hot fit guy based on that right?

Yes, women are more forgiving with looks, up to a point. When he passes that point, he better be throwing money her way. And that fat girl better have excellent sucking skills and be ok with never being seen in public with him.

It’s not right, but that’s how it is.

 

[AJ84]

Lol. Ok say let's go back a million years when men had to defend the tribe against sabretooth tigers and other nomadic men. Who do you think were the most attractive men then? Masculine and dominant men. Men with high testosterone. Not pretty boys.

And who do you think were the most desirable women? Young, fertile, healthy, with hips, booty, and t!ts.

By design, women go for survival qualities. And men go for signs of fertility. This is evolution.

Men and women are not the same. We don't have the same brains. We don't offer the same qualities. We don't use the same tools to survive. Men use their dominance and women use their feminine charms to seduce these dominant men.

So you think our programming has changed somehow because society has changed?

That’s all well and fine, but we don’t live in tribes and it’s not a million years ago. It’s today, we live in today.

And no one is debating that young and fertile women are not what men prefer. EVERYONE knows young fertile women are what men prefer lol.

And everyone knows that women like manly men. Well, maybe not all women but they should lol.

Some things have not changed, that’s true, but some things certainly have changed. And one of those things is women don’t need to rely on men to survive, they can now choose to rely on men to survive. And men don’t need to provide for women, they can now choose to provide for women. This has changed a lot of how we date and have relationships, for better or for worse.

Many of the things that were were necessary to survive in a tribe a million years ago are not necessary anymore. And people are a lot less cooperative within a group, working together for the common good. We don’t do that as much anymore, we are all a bit more selfish now.

And, I’m not arguing men and woman are the same. I am however arguing that woman do place some importance on looks for their sexual satisfaction. We don’t see obese male strippers do we? Mind you half of the are probably gay but some women sure love pawing at their biceps and other body parts.

And the 50 shades of grey guy wasn’t played by a fat 65yr old man.

Women like good looks. Don’t have to be a ripped fitness model but having something going on the looks dept certainly helps, for young and older men.

An ugly man with money and power will attract women, because he has money and power. A hot broke guy will attract women because he’s hot.

Two different types of attraction, not necessarily wise choices for women in the long run though.

 

[AJ84]

You could be clearer. You're talking about women prostituting themselves vs. actually wanting to fukk a guy. I don't think anyone here will be offended by the difference. And of course some women are good at faking attraction. Some men are good at faking commitment. It was ever thus.

Nevertheless, what @stormrider says holds up. "Attractive" or "hot" to a woman includes a lot of factors, not just conventional Ken Doll shyt. The female paradigm is such that they ***see*** a man as attractive or hot because of a wider range of criteria. The fact that a man is far more likely to approach an attractive woman than vice-versa should tell you all you need to know.

You are right, there are more factors. What I’m trying to point out is that an ugly man with power and status is attracting women who want to benefit from his power and status. If he didn’t have that, he would not have them.

My understanding is that Storm is saying that if the ugly guy has power and dominance and leadership etc etc that women will get wet for him. I’m saying no, they won’t be thinking of him when they play with themselves, but they will fantasize about what they can get from him.

Which is basically a form of prostitution, yes.

That’s my main argument here. But yes when women are attracted its not just based on his looks, but that is usually the initial attraction. His looks. If she finds him ugly and really is not sexually attracted to him, it would be very difficult for him to turn that around using social proof or whatever.

When I say ugly, I don’t mean the average guy. I mean a guy who one could reasonably see would not be attractive to most women.

Because yes, Storm is right that most women are more forgiving in the looks dept but again that’s up to a certain point and it doesn’t mean we won’t eyeball hot fit guy walking down the street because everyone appreciates free eye candy .

 

[AJ84]

When did I ever use the word "ugly"? You used the word ugly, not me. You were trying to say that what I am saying is obviously coming from an ugly guy. Ugly guy rationalization, lol. And then when I defeated you with logic (evolutionary psychology), you started to backtrack and now you are saying looks do matter to some degree. I never said it didn't matter. All I said was women are programmed to be attracted to masculine and dominant men. Whether a guy is good looking or not, he STILL needs to be internally dominant to keep women interested in him. As men, we don't have the luxury to show up and just be useless pretty ornaments like women.

“This is why a perceived "ugly" guy can walk into a social setting with hot women and have other women intrigued.”

Post 28

 

[AJ84]

Ok my bad. I guess I did use it. For the record, I am actually a good looking guy. I wish what you said was true. I wish all I can do is show up. But I have lost women to many ugly dudes in the past that had more social status.

So this is not a theory. And it's not coming from an ugly guy trying to use ugly guy rationalization. It's coming from a handsome guy who have actually lost women to ugly guys who were more dominant.

What you say is not what most people experience in real life. It is relegated to strip clubs. But in the actual night clubs, it's the most dominant and masculine guys who often get women.

I also have note that my inner game (value offering, non-neediness, internal dominance) has to be on point as well. Even if the woman thinks I am handsome, it is still very much my internal self that draws her interest. Likewise, if my internal state is sh1t, I might as well be ugly because every woman would be repelled. Female to male attraction is not as simplistic as have nice hair and 6 pack abs. It helps but it's more complex than that.

I do find that strange. I admit though that I’m not part of the club scene and I have been off the market for some time.

I also don’t know what it’s like to be a man picking up women at a bar. I’ll take your word on that stuff as you would know more about that than me that’s for sure.

You are right it’s not as simplistic as just being good looking but it helps: But f**k if women are dropping good looking guys to go with a dominant guy even if he’s ugly, that’s sad. And from what you post you seem masculine and not a full beta so wtf city do you live in where the women have lost their minds that they would turn down a good looking masculine guy for an ugly one just because he has social proof/ dominance? Are they truly ugly? Like obese/ super skinny with horrible face or something that one would reasonably see as ugly?

Is this just in the clubs or do you notice this in other social settings?

Help me understand this (if you don’t mind and when you have time) because this is f**ked up to me lol.

 

[Spaz]

It's a great argument, but by calling him "Mike Jagger" you knocked him down from rock star to forklift driver.

Haha my apologies then.

It's Mick Jagger.

 

[Spaz]

You could be clearer. You're talking about women prostituting themselves vs. actually wanting to fukk a guy. I don't think anyone here will be offended by the difference. And of course some women are good at faking attraction. Some men are good at faking commitment. It was ever thus.

Nevertheless, what @stormrider says holds up. "Attractive" or "hot" to a woman includes a lot of factors, not just conventional Ken Doll shyt. The female paradigm is such that they ***see*** a man as attractive or hot because of a wider range of criteria. The fact that a man is far more likely to approach an attractive woman than vice-versa should tell you all you need to know.

Being handsome is just a bonus factor in the attraction criterion.

Presence is the primary criteria, the way you walk, the way you talk, the way you look at people, rhythm of ur voice...ur entire body language.

Those traits flows out when you're truly manly in ur thoughts so much so it's fully embedded within ur psyche.

 

[greatsnake]

most women want to be led, unless you are talking to a feminist.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Being handsome is just a bonus factor in the attraction criterion.

Presence is the primary criteria, the way you walk, the way you talk, the way you look at people, rhythm of ur voice...ur entire body language.

Those traits flows out when you're truly manly in ur thoughts so much so it's fully embedded within ur psyche.

Women will actually imagine that a man looks way better than he objectively looks when he fulfills those criteria. A man who has his act together actually makes him look physically attractive in her perception. For us men, physical appearance of the opposite sex is judged fairly globally and absolutely, even across most (but not all) cultures. Of course there will be some variance but studies show that there is a surprisingly global consensus on ideal looks and body shape.

There is no such universality among women when they evaluate men's looks. When a man tickles her fancy, she sees him as gorgeous. I believe our creator built that into them, and it serves a good purpose.