Dating Career Women

The Duke

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Rich Cooper outlines the con's of dating a career woman. I found these issues to be my experience as well.

Cons:
1. She doesn't know how to shut off her competitive mindset she used to battle men all day in her job. She becomes disagreeable, argues more, and her submissiveness evaporates. Women aren't very good at compartmentalizing like men. She will bring it all home and you will get to hear all about it.

2. She puts in long hours. Skips lunch. Stop working out. Stops eating right. Falls asleep easily. Is wiped out at the end of the week. Her work erodes into her personal life. She will be headed to an airport Sunday afternoon so she can be at some convention/meeting first thing Monday morning. She will get back late Friday evening tired from her trip. She will work on Sunday. She won't use all her allotted vacation.

3. They age prematurely due to the stress. I saw the wrinkles come on and her face change in the 2yrs.

4. They internalize female power and bring that into your relationship.

5. They don't need a husband/boyfriend. They need a wife/girlfriend.

6. They don't even have time for their own personal interests/hobbies outside of work, much less your interests. Her job is #1, her personal interests are #2 when she finds time. You will be #3.

7. I also noticed she started approaching sex like a man. No charm, no feminity......just I need some sex can you come fuhk me. Blunt and abrupt. That intimate connection dries up and it feels a little transactional.

I've never been needy, never needed much from my significant other, but being with a career woman is a very unnatural position for the man and woman to be in. In these relationships the woman becomes the man, or as in my case, the man gets tired of the battle and checks out.

For the first two years my girl wasn't this way, but she became this. I'll never date another. Hopefully this will serve to warn others. They might be a decent choice for something casual, but not for a serious relationship.
 
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SW15

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This is a good thread.

1. She doesn't know how to shut off her competitive mindset she used to battle men all day in her job. She becomes disagreeable, argues more, and her submissiveness evaporates. Women aren't very good at compartmentalizing like men. She will bring it all home and you will get to hear all about it.
This is true. This behavior is not at all attractive.

2. She puts in long hours. Skips lunch. Stop working out. Stops eating right. Falls asleep easily. Is wiped out at the end of the week. Her work erodes into her personal life. She will be headed to an airport Sunday afternoon so she can be at some convention/meeting first thing Monday morning. She will get back late Friday evening tired from her trip. She will work on Sunday. She won't use all her allotted vacation.
Long hours are not compatible with being a good girlfriend. She can't exercise or spend any quality time with a boyfriend.

6. They don't even have time for their own personal interests/hobbies outside of work, much less your interests. Her job is #1, her personal interests are #2 when she finds time. You will be #3.
That's bad. They become boring when they are work obsessed.
 

svencandy

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6. They don't even have time for their own personal interests/hobbies outside of work, much less your interests. Her job is #1, her personal interests are #2 when she finds time. You will be #3
In my case it was
#1 Job
#2 Personal interests
#3 She got a dog
#4 Me, slowly moving to number 5 being replaced by her hobby

Most likely me moving to number 5 was because I checked out.
Our entire conversation was about 1 through 3.
Now she's dating again and getting slammed left right and centre, because validation has temporarily been moved into #1.
As was the case when I met her.
I listened to her drone on about her job and faked interest, cause she was hot, and sex was good.
 

devilkingx2

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1. She doesn't know how to shut off her competitive mindset she used to battle men all day in her job. She becomes disagreeable, argues more, and her submissiveness evaporates. Women aren't very good at compartmentalizing like men. She will bring it all home and you will get to hear all about it.
I know a girl who's in law school and she once debunked a flirty joke I made like it was the legal argument of opposing counsel lol.


2. She puts in long hours. Skips lunch. Stop working out. Stops eating right. Falls asleep easily. Is wiped out at the end of the week. Her work erodes into her personal life. She will be headed to an airport Sunday afternoon so she can be at some convention/meeting first thing Monday morning. She will get back late Friday evening tired from her trip. She will work on Sunday. She won't use all her allotted vacation.
6. They don't even have time for their own personal interests/hobbies outside of work, much less your interests. Her job is #1, her personal interests are #2 when she finds time. You will be #3.
Those two sound like massive deal breakers. I don't know how any relationship could work with girls like that. Maybe a plate
 

SW15

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1. She doesn't know how to shut off her competitive mindset she used to battle men all day in her job. She becomes disagreeable, argues more, and her submissiveness evaporates. Women aren't very good at compartmentalizing like men. She will bring it all home and you will get to hear all about it.
I know a girl who's in law school and she once debunked a flirty joke I made like it was the legal argument of opposing counsel lol.
That sounds like a like law school female who takes law school too seriously or an actual lawyer. Someone who goes to those lengths to debunk a flirty joke isn't a great relationship prospect.

There are married female lawyers and female lawyers in multi-year, committed non-marital relationships. Who dates these female lawyers for years or marries them and has children with them? It's typically some office worker type beta male or another lawyer who is beta/blue pill on relationships. In the case of a male lawyer-female lawyer pairing, it's likely they met in law school before both were lawyers. I'm sure some female lawyers also end up with their undergrad boyfriends.

It's difficult for me to imagine a 27 year old female lawyer who is 2 years out of law school getting into a relationship with a plumber or auto mechanic.

There are also many female lawyers who struggle in the dating lives.

Thinking about and discussing the dating lives of female lawyers is often more interesting than going on a first date with a female lawyer. This is often due to reasons that @The Duke mentions. Female lawyers on early stage dates won't shut off work mode and regularly talk about work. Work dominates their lives and they often don't have a lot of hobbies.

I have noticed far more female lawyers on swipe apps than out in the real world. I've only approached two lifetime. I was at a private event once in a bar and the woman with an amazing tan who looked feminine walked in. She was a lawyer. I couldn't believe it. In her 30s. I once approached a woman in an Oakland Raiders t-shirt in the gym who turned out to be a lawyer. I also didn't expect that. This was before the team moved to Las Vegas. This also occurred far from Oakland or California. I asked her about why she chose to wear a Raiders t-shirt to the gym and if she was from Northern California. The Raiders t-shirt gave me an easy opener. I did not end up arranging a date with either of these women or asking for their phone numbers.

Most men who approach strangers exclusively are not likely to end up on a date with female lawyers.

@Barrister has dated a female lawyer and interacted with numerous female lawyers.

2. She puts in long hours. Skips lunch. Stop working out. Stops eating right. Falls asleep easily. Is wiped out at the end of the week. Her work erodes into her personal life. She will be headed to an airport Sunday afternoon so she can be at some convention/meeting first thing Monday morning. She will get back late Friday evening tired from her trip. She will work on Sunday. She won't use all her allotted vacation.

6. They don't even have time for their own personal interests/hobbies outside of work, much less your interests. Her job is #1, her personal interests are #2 when she finds time. You will be #3.
Those two sound like massive deal breakers. I don't know how any relationship could work with girls like that. Maybe a plate
There are career women who are plates to top tier guys and nothing more than that.

Involuntary solitude (insol, credit to Heartiste for this term) status is common with career women in their 30s and 40s. Insol women have no problems getting laid if they want to get laid. The problem is that these women have problems with committed relationships. A lot of these women are in situationships/casual sex arrangements that last 6 months or less.

There are some career women who are lesser insols/serial monogamist types that have many 1-4 year long relationships and don't marry.

I don't know a lot of career women in law and medicine. I know more career women in business-related roles since I have a business-related role.

Their husbands are seemingly quite beta.
 

SW15

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One of the more challenging things about being a man interested in longer term dating is evaluating working women.

Almost all women have some sort of job today. It's essentially impossible to find a woman going from her childhood home to a husband. Women now work.

What's the difference between a woman with a job and a career woman? Women with jobs are more dateable than the career woman.

A woman with a job is a woman doing enough not to be homeless. A woman with a job doesn't take work too seriously and lives a balanced life. A woman with a job might just have a job a traditionally feminine occupation, an occupation that women held when fewer women were in the workplace.

How does a man find a woman with a job and not a career-oriented female? I have some ideas about this...

1. Look for women with less demanding, non-corporate white collar jobs. Retail store worker, barista, bartender, waitress, etc. The problem with this is that many of these women work odd hours, making it difficult for the white collar worker or the blue collar worker who works Mon-Fri type day shifts to get schedules that match up well with this.

2. If you must date a white collar worker type, try to find a non-managerial type. This guideline is best in evaluating women 30+. There are non-managerial women in their 20s who are super ambitious and aspiring to be middle/upper managers, partners at law firms later in life. Sales reps are non-managerial and difficult to evaluate. Some female sales reps are extremely ambitious and commission/quota driven. These aren't the best options for girlfriends.

3. Women with advanced degrees are either big time careerists or possess ideologies that aren't conducive to long term relationships. Which women have advanced degrees and which advanced degrees? Let's take a look.

-Females with MBAs -- These are middle and upper management types. These are ambitious careerists.
-Females with JDs -- These are lawyer women. These are careerists.
-Females with MDs, DDSs, and PhDs. These are medical doctors, dentists, psychologists, and college professors. All ambitious and often possessing SJW or feminist ideologies. None are very dateable long term.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Just like Grandmaster Flash said in the song "White Lines"...

"Twice as sweet as sugar....
Twice as bitter as salt...
And if you get hooked baby...
It's nobody else's fault, so don't do it!
Don't... don't.. don't...do it do it.... don't do it!"

 

typical

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No such thing as a "Career Woman" !!! Read it again !!!

Career women are the mirror reflection of what we preach and teach here on Sosuave. The difference is that a female has a biological trigger that will eventually force her to want a family !!!

If you time your courtship correctly so called "Career Women" can make fantastic wifes and mothers for your kids provided that is what you're looking for, add to that your ability to prove yourself as the breadwinner and she will gladly throw away said career to be a "Trophy Wife" with 3 kids and 2 dogs !!!

TLDR - you fu(kers haven't got enough social status/ economic status nor adequate "game" to date/marry a so called career women, step outside and touch some grass lads and get some experience. And not having 200+ lays doesn't count as experience I'm talking life experience.
 

typical

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One of the more challenging things about being a man interested in longer term dating is evaluating working women.

Almost all women have some sort of job today. It's essentially impossible to find a woman going from her childhood home to a husband. Women now work.

What's the difference between a woman with a job and a career woman? Women with jobs are more dateable than the career woman.

A woman with a job is a woman doing enough not to be homeless. A woman with a job doesn't take work too seriously and lives a balanced life. A woman with a job might just have a job a traditionally feminine occupation, an occupation that women held when fewer women were in the workplace.

How does a man find a woman with a job and not a career-oriented female? I have some ideas about this...

1. Look for women with less demanding, non-corporate white collar jobs. Retail store worker, barista, bartender, waitress, etc. The problem with this is that many of these women work odd hours, making it difficult for the white collar worker or the blue collar worker who works Mon-Fri type day shifts to get schedules that match up well with this.

2. If you must date a white collar worker type, try to find a non-managerial type. This guideline is best in evaluating women 30+. There are non-managerial women in their 20s who are super ambitious and aspiring to be middle/upper managers, partners at law firms later in life. Sales reps are non-managerial and difficult to evaluate. Some female sales reps are extremely ambitious and commission/quota driven. These aren't the best options for girlfriends.

3. Women with advanced degrees are either big time careerists or possess ideologies that aren't conducive to long term relationships. Which women have advanced degrees and which advanced degrees? Let's take a look.

-Females with MBAs -- These are middle and upper management types. These are ambitious careerists.
-Females with JDs -- These are lawyer women. These are careerists.
-Females with MDs, DDSs, and PhDs. These are medical doctors, dentists, psychologists, and college professors. All ambitious and often possessing SJW or feminist ideologies. None are very dateable long term.
Disagree here man,

If you're dating "non corportate low inteligence requirement job" women, what happens after the sex gets routine ? You get bored and move on.

If you want a LTR and potentially marriage/kids who do you want teaching your kids life/social/schooling skiils ? Some ex retail worker or a women that know how to push ahead and succeed in life ?

Again nearly ALL women are wired to settle down and build a nest and play "Mummy", your job is to be the man she's willing to throw away everything for and play wife for !!! .................... that's if you want a wife, otherwise just date and move one once things get boring.
 

BillyPilgrim

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No such thing as a "Career Woman" !!! Read it again !!!

Career women are the mirror reflection of what we preach and teach here on Sosuave. The difference is that a female has a biological trigger that will eventually force her to want a family !!!

If you time your courtship correctly so called "Career Women" can make fantastic wifes and mothers for your kids provided that is what you're looking for, add to that your ability to prove yourself as the breadwinner and she will gladly throw away said career to be a "Trophy Wife" with 3 kids and 2 dogs !!!

TLDR - you fu(kers haven't got enough social status/ economic status nor adequate "game" to date/marry a so called career women, step outside and touch some grass lads and get some experience. And not having 200+ lays doesn't count as experience I'm talking life experience.
Disagree here man,

If you're dating "non corportate low inteligence requirement job" women, what happens after the sex gets routine ? You get bored and move on.

If you want a LTR and potentially marriage/kids who do you want teaching your kids life/social/schooling skiils ? Some ex retail worker or a women that know how to push ahead and succeed in life ?

Again nearly ALL women are wired to settle down and build a nest and play "Mummy", your job is to be the man she's willing to throw away everything for and play wife for !!! .................... that's if you want a wife, otherwise just date and move one once things get boring.
Where do we sign up for this? We men need a purpose in life, and fighting for our country isn't as feasible anymore.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Disagree here man,

If you're dating "non corportate low inteligence requirement job" women, what happens after the sex gets routine ? You get bored and move on.

If you want a LTR and potentially marriage/kids who do you want teaching your kids life/social/schooling skiils ? Some ex retail worker or a women that know how to push ahead and succeed in life ?

Again nearly ALL women are wired to settle down and build a nest and play "Mummy", your job is to be the man she's willing to throw away everything for and play wife for !!! .................... that's if you want a wife, otherwise just date and move one once things get boring.
Sex never has to get routine. It usually does because people let it happen. When was the last time most guys randomly jumped into the shower and fvcked the hell out of their GF/wife while she was in there? Probably either never or a long time. Most guys are boring in the bedroom just like they are boring on dates and in their lives.
 

Peaks&Valleys

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You hit on a lot of good points OP. I dated a "career woman" who would literally just stay in bed all day on Sundays due to working 60 to 70 hours during the week. Gained weight because she had no time for working out and had snagged someone (me). Sex was very transactional like you said. She'd wake me up at the butt crack of dawn to get some. Then was expecting it every night like clockwork. My needs (like bl0wjobs) were a far distant 2nd to hers.

I should add, she WAS the breadwinner between the two of us. So I think she felt entitled to getting her needs met first.
 

BMX

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It's over for CareerFembotCels.

I feel bad and everything..
 

Barrister

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As @SW15 said I can speak on this having been in a relationship with female attorney for 2.5 years (HB 8.5).

What I will say is that they generally are not going to be ones you want to sit down and try to do the whole marriage thing with. Their focus is on their career. I do think they are exceptional partners when it comes to the social scene if you travel in the more upper echelons of society because they are able to carry on conversation and interact much more adeptly than your stay-at-home housewife will. From that perspective, you will have a lot of fun and get a lot of reward for having them as your relationship. However, generally speaking, I think the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to dating a career woman. Nothing about you is going to be the priority over the long haul. I also think they tend to want to test your frame much more so than a woman who is not career-oriented will.

If she makes more than you do, I wouldn't even attempt the relationship. You will find yourself fighting frame wars early and often.
 

Barrister

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No such thing as a "Career Woman" !!! Read it again !!!

Career women are the mirror reflection of what we preach and teach here on Sosuave. The difference is that a female has a biological trigger that will eventually force her to want a family !!!

If you time your courtship correctly so called "Career Women" can make fantastic wifes and mothers for your kids provided that is what you're looking for, add to that your ability to prove yourself as the breadwinner and she will gladly throw away said career to be a "Trophy Wife" with 3 kids and 2 dogs !!!

TLDR - you fu(kers haven't got enough social status/ economic status nor adequate "game" to date/marry a so called career women, step outside and touch some grass lads and get some experience. And not having 200+ lays doesn't count as experience I'm talking life experience.
The problem is what you're describing here isn't a "career woman." You're describing a well-educated woman who has a career and meets a guy then decides to take on the mother/wifey role. She puts her kids and her marriage before the career. Yes, this is ideal for a marriage because she has brains but puts family first and uses her brains to improve the family unit.

A "career woman" is one who doesn't do that. She may pop the kid out but then keeps working and expects husband to take care of everything back the house. Puts her kid in some daycare and lets strangers raise them but her main focus is still her job professionally.

And yes, there IS such a thing as a "career woman." I have dated one and known numerous ones. Not sure why you would even suggest they don't exist.
 

Peaks&Valleys

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The problem is what you're describing here isn't a "career woman." You're describing a well-educated woman who has a career and meets a guy then decides to take on the mother/wifey role. She puts her kids and her marriage before the career. Yes, this is ideal for a marriage because she has brains but puts family first and uses her brains to improve the family unit.

A "career woman" is one who doesn't do that. She may pop the kid out but then keeps working and expects husband to take care of everything back the house. Puts her kid in some daycare and lets strangers raise them but her main focus is still her job professionally.

And yes, there IS such a thing as a "career woman." I have dated one and known numerous ones. Not sure why you would even suggest they don't exist.
Very well said.

The one I described in my previous post, was a single Mom as well (yeah, go ahead roast me). And the kid lived with the Dad and his new wife. And she rarely saw the kid and made excuses why she didn't but frankly....I figured out she just didn't seem to care. It kind of blew me away.
 

Barrister

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Very well said.

The one I described in my previous post, was a single Mom as well (yeah, go ahead roast me). And the kid lived with the Dad and his new wife. And she rarely saw the kid and made excuses why she didn't but frankly....I figured out she just didn't seem to care. It kind of blew me away.
I have known many women like this. And frankly, I think it is unnatural. Women are hard-wired to want to raise their children in a very hands on way. Now, some lower income single moms don't have a choice. But the types we are discussing do and choose not to. I look at it as a red flag when it comes to a LTR.
 

Peaks&Valleys

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I have known many women like this. And frankly, I think it is unnatural. Women are hard-wired to want to raise their children in a very hands on way. Now, some lower income single moms don't have a choice. But the types we are discussing do and choose not to. I look at it as a red flag when it comes to a LTR.
I was recently talking to a very sweet 20 something lady relative of mine who has a masters degree. She's a lefty as most women in her position are however, she's gone the extra steps and volunteered for various liberal organizations and causes. However, she recently admitted to me that she doesn't want to "climb the corporate ladder" but instead, hopes to one day be a stay at home Mom.

Brought a tear to my eye.
 

SW15

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I think the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to dating a career woman. Nothing about you is going to be the priority over the long haul. I also think they tend to want to test your frame much more so than a woman who is not career-oriented will.

If she makes more than you do, I wouldn't even attempt the relationship. You will find yourself fighting frame wars early and often.
I believe in these ideas a lot. I won't date a woman who is career-oriented and makes more than I do.

As @SW15 said I can speak on this having been in a relationship with female attorney for 2.5 years (HB 8.5).
HB 8.5 and a lawyer is a less common combination. HB 8.5s typically would prefer less demanding careers than attorney careers.

Plenty of sales reps (who may or may not be careerist) can get into the 8-9 range. Very attractive. There are other business women in that range, but most business women aren't. Middle to upper level business managers don't tend to be in that range. There are many women who are 6-7 in looks in middle to upper management business roles.

Lawyers are some of the toughest women to date. Her being an 8.5 kept you around for longer than you needed to stay around.

Working with female attorneys in a legal role will show a man that female attorneys would be a pain in dating relationships.
 

Barrister

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I believe in these ideas a lot. I won't date a woman who is career-oriented and makes more than I do.

HB 8.5 and a lawyer is a less common combination. HB 8.5s typically would prefer less demanding careers than attorney careers.

Plenty of sales reps (who may or may not be careerist) can get into the 8-9 range. Very attractive. There are other business women in that range, but most business women aren't. Middle to upper level business managers don't tend to be in that range. There are many women who are 6-7 in looks in middle to upper management business roles.

Lawyers are some of the toughest women to date. Her being an 8.5 kept you around for longer than you needed to stay around.

Working with female attorneys in a legal role will show a man that female attorneys would be a pain in dating relationships.
Most female attorneys are not attractive. My ex was one of the rare exceptions. And I think most "careerist" women are on average less attractive than non-career women - the legal profession is no exception. But there are always outliers.

And yes - her looks definitely kept me in that relationship for longer than I should have been. And she was cluster B - so the makeup sex was mind blowing. Naturally, I was a sucker for that.
 
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