Dates that are a waste of time

[BPH]

I probably do but I wasn't responding this way in another thread of mine because you guys were on the mark.

You don't have to take my advice or anybody else's.

But if you're experiencing a problem, and have people pointing out a solution, you should try to be open to the possibility that they're right and you're wrong, even (sometimes especially) if you can't see it.

 

[Oatmeal31]

You don't have to take my advice or anybody else's.

But if you're experiencing a problem, and have people pointing out a solution, you should try to be open to the possibility that they're right and you're wrong, even (sometimes especially) if you can't see it.

Well, that's why I'm here. And to rant partially. But I'm here to learn. Like I said, if your advice is good, no objections here. The thread about the Australian girl I took out, was met with good advice.

 

[BPH]

Well, that's why I'm here. And to rant partially. But I'm here to learn. Like I said, if your advice is good, no objections here. The thread about the Australian girl I took out, was met with good advice.

My point is that the advice here is good too; you just disagree with it.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Genuinely curious. Screening? I was getting flying colors until I met resistance

A girl like that is more likely to be neurotic, hence the incongruity

 

[Clockwerk50]

I wouldn't call this woman a goth. She seems like a heavily tattooed Gen Z woman. She would be more attractive with 0 tattoos or 1-2 small tattoos.

Millennial and Gen Z women are obsessed with tattoos.

Like this? But fat? Would that be a regular goth?

 

[SW15]

You get frustrated and emotional too easily.

I probably do

This is a good acknowledgment. Getting frustrated and emotional too easily can work against a man in dealing with women. @BPH has gotten bangs from some women in part due to being emotionally centered and not affected by certain crap tests.

Like this? But fat? Would that be a regular goth?

View attachment 14303

That looks like a goth to me.

 

[Oatmeal31]

My point is that the advice here is good too; you just disagree with it.

It ignores some of the context I provided, especially today. Pretty important stuff. So yeah, hard to agree with that.

 

[pipeman84]

Yes, she wasted my time. Because who goes on a date, and pulls back from flirtation? You know, what makes a meeting, a date?

You escalated far too much, too fast. Not to mention that as a goth girl with plenty tattoos she most probably is neurotic, to begin with.
Here's what Doc Love's The System has to say about touching:

 

[SW15]

You escalated far too much, too fast.
Here's what Doc Love's The System has to say about touching:

It's possible to escalate too fast. When escalation happens too fast, one will encounter resistance. The severity of the resistance depends on the overall dynamic.

Women can initiate touching but I find it to be less common. I'm usually reading body language and figuring out which kino escalation level to do next. I start off slowly and build up if the escalation is well received.

It's possible to hit a roadblock in kino escalation. That's what happened with @Oatmeal31 in this. When a roadblock is hit on a 1st date, the seducer must recalibrate, try to spike her emotions, and then do kino escalation stage again and see if she's more receptive later. The fingers through the hair tactic is used to see if she's ready to be kissed. She reacted negatively to that, which is an indicating of not being ready to be kissed.

 

[Oatmeal31]

You escalated far too much, too fast. Not to mention that as a goth girl with plenty tattoos she most probably is neurotic, to begin with.
Here's what Doc Love's The System has to say about touching:
View attachment 14306

She pulled back from me putting my hand on her lower back to guide her to the bar when we met later on. I was very tame lol. The text you show says you should let women initiate touching. Don't know about you, but nothing will happen that way. If the man doesn't lead, she doesn't really bother.
You could definitely say she was 'neurotic' or in other words irrational though

It's possible to escalate too fast. When escalation happens too fast, one will encounter resistance. The severity of the resistance depends on the overall dynamic.

Women can initiate touching but I find it to be less common. I'm usually reading body language and figuring out which kino escalation level to do next. I start off slowly and build up if the escalation is well received.

It's possible to hit a roadblock in kino escalation. That's what happened with @Oatmeal31 in this. When a roadblock is hit on a 1st date, the seducer must recalibrate, try to spike her emotions, and then do kino escalation stage again and see if she's more receptive later. The fingers through the hair tactic is used to see if she's ready to be kissed. She reacted negatively to that, which is an indicating of not being ready to be kissed.

That's what I did. I hit a roadblock and lightly tried again, when going through her rings and tattoos. She seemed ok with that

 

[SW15]

You could definitely say she was 'neurotic' or in other words irrational though

A lot of females are irrational at a minimum. Irrationality alone isn't a reason to dismiss, but does make things more difficult.

The combination of neurotic and irrational at elevated levels would make any interaction unpleasant. Her lack of interest could be interpreted as a favorable outcome as dealing with her over time likely would have been unpleasant, even if you were able to get enough good vibes to get 1-2 nights of sex.

How much screening do you do before arranging dates off of your non-bar approaches? How long does your typical conversation go before you're asking her on a date? I'm thinking that you might not be screening well enough off of your approaches and setting up some bad dates.

When men use swipe apps, most men are operating from a state of scarcity. That's understandable, as men get few matches and conversations via apps. This forces a lot of men to offers dates to women that are bad fits, leading to waste of time dates. Additionally, screening via sending text-based messages is more difficult than average.

You have an advantage because you are meeting women in real life. However, it's possible to insufficiently screen even when meeting women in real life.

The goal shouldn't be to go on dates. The goal should be finding compatible dates for the relationship type you seek (short term or longer term).

 

[BaronOfHair]

A lot of females are irrational at a minimum

Human beings have the capacity for rational thought, yet engage in it about as often as sand tiger sharks refrain from indulging in interuterine cannibalism... As men, we just don't enjoy the carte blanche women often receive, when we fail to remain in our rational(rather than emotional)minds

 

[pipeman84]

She pulled back from me putting my hand on her lower back to guide her to the bar when we met later on. I was very tame lol. The text you show says you should let women initiate touching. Don't know about you, but nothing will happen that way. If the man doesn't lead, she doesn't really bother.
You could definitely say she was 'neurotic' or in other words irrational though

You can't argue with the first man in 6.000 years to understand women.

In all seriousness though, this mindset of escalating fast or she'll disappear or friend-zone you never sat well with me. Just like I never understood all the talk about anti slvt defence or pushing through her last minute resistance. That may be true for a small subset of dumb and/or drunk women, but who really wants to deal with that? I've always thought that a true seducer is a guy that has gotten a (fully sober) woman so attracted to him that she practically jumps on him.

 

[Solomon]

Women speak covertly and men speak overtly. From your story, I gathered that the woman was exhausted from sending subtle and indirect signals, so she shifted from her feminine energy to masculine energy to tell you directly to slow down. After that, two things may have caused a change in your demeanour, which may have turned her off:

1. Reactive
   You took her pulling back as a personal slight to your vanity instead of recognizing it as a natural part of the dynamic. That kind of sensitivity makes you seem emotionally high-maintenance and kills the seductive tension.
2. Impatient
   Instead of letting things unfold naturally, you rushed the process and pushed for physicality too soon. This made the whole interaction feel self-serving, like you weren’t attuned to her pace or experience at all.

Sometimes you have to attune your senses to hers, watching closely, and adjusting to her moods. You sense when she’s defensive and pull back. You sense when she’s giving in and move forward. A woman’s senses are more refined than a man’s; to her, all he really has to do is take his time and do the little things that show he’s present. If he does that, he’ll have her eating out of his hand.

Excatatly one of the things I've learned is you can't take things personal it's easier said then done, but women are intuitive and they pick up on vibe shift.

Personally, I do not try to be touhy feely right away I prefer to ramp up my Kino escalation etc. OP only did those 2 things wrong, but kudos for oP making a date happen from a street approach that is a tough thing to do

 

[ThisIsSparta]

Just went on one of the most retarded dates I've been on in a while.

The date doesnt sound retarded, your reaction is retarded.

She gave you a chance, you blew it by acting needy and pushing her to much.

You didnt read her right, you escalate, she wasnt into it at that point, you get pissed (clearly to much emotion, even in this posting), she feels you are pissed and the vibe got killed.

End of story

 

[New_Journey]

to masculine energy to tell you directly to slow down

Would you think she will tell the same to an actor? To me it looked like a $hit test, he should've played FnC and then going for the kiss. The part of backing off can signal weakness and not confidence, because think about it, why would a guy be touching a woman that much, like he's the $hit? Only if he is a HVM with experience and doesn't give a fvck about the outcome, so he would want to go to sex as fast as quickly given the circumstances.

What's the worst it can happen? She turning the cheek the other way and telling him she's leaving? Well, less time wasted.

 

[Oatmeal31]

The date doesnt sound retarded, your reaction is retarded.

She gave you a chance, you blew it by acting needy and pushing her to much.

You didnt read her right, you escalate, she wasnt into it at that point, you get pissed (clearly to much emotion, even in this posting), she feels you are pissed and the vibe got killed.

End of story

At no point did I get pissed during the date. In fact, it seems you missed the part where I said, whatever makes you comfortable. Your reading skills aren't up to par and I hope it's not as bad as your game. I did get annoyed afterwards because it was a waste of time but the alcohol mellowed me out real good. But yes, whatever you say. Everything I did was wrong, she was a perfect angel that holds no responsibility and I should perform flawlessly to serve my queen lmao

 

[Oatmeal31]

A lot of females are irrational at a minimum. Irrationality alone isn't a reason to dismiss, but does make things more difficult.

The combination of neurotic and irrational at elevated levels would make any interaction unpleasant. Her lack of interest could be interpreted as a favorable outcome as dealing with her over time likely would have been unpleasant, even if you were able to get enough good vibes to get 1-2 nights of sex.

How much screening do you do before arranging dates off of your non-bar approaches? How long does your typical conversation go before you're asking her on a date? I'm thinking that you might not be screening well enough off of your approaches and setting up some bad dates.

When men use swipe apps, most men are operating from a state of scarcity. That's understandable, as men get few matches and conversations via apps. This forces a lot of men to offers dates to women that are bad fits, leading to waste of time dates. Additionally, screening via sending text-based messages is more difficult than average.

You have an advantage because you are meeting women in real life. However, it's possible to insufficiently screen even when meeting women in real life.

The goal shouldn't be to go on dates. The goal should be finding compatible dates for the relationship type you seek (short term or longer term).

Good point. It's difficult screen after a brief conversation though. Hell, everyone is usually on their best behavior in the beginning. It's hard to see what she was going to do coming since she was totally ok with it beforehand

 

[Clockwerk50]

Would you think she will tell the same to an actor? To me it looked like a $hit test, he should've played FnC and then going for the kiss. The part of backing off can signal weakness and not confidence, because think about it, why would a guy be touching a woman that much, like he's the $hit? Only if he is a HVM with experience and doesn't give a fvck about the outcome, so he would want to go to sex as fast as quickly given the circumstances.

What's the worst it can happen? She turning the cheek the other way and telling him she's leaving? Well, less time wasted.

TL;DR:
She showed clear signs of discomfort before stating her boundary, and without knowing her true intentions, it’s likely OP misread the situation, thinking it was a date while she may have just been casually vetting him. A guy she was more attracted to would’ve likely started further along in the interaction and faced less resistance.

Due to the many ideologies surrounding this and the complexity of the question, I’ll try to keep my response as concise as possible:

First and foremost, seduction is the process of drawing someone in, making them want you, pursue you, and ultimately possess you. The reason why you want someone to desire you can vary (sex, money, power, popularity, the challenge, being enjoyable to be around, etc.), but the game is mutual: both parties are seducing each other at the same time.

Seduction generally follows a similar progression: interest → desire → emotional connection/attachment → physicality/sex. If both parties are equally attracted to each other, they’ll start around the same point and both will need to invest the same amount of effort. However, if one is much more interested than the other, say, the stereotypical “creepy guy” with oneitis for the cheerleader, he’ll have to put in significantly more work just to get her to the starting line, while she might already be in the emotional connection phase just by being aware of his interest.

With this in mind: yes, if she were more attracted to another guy, he would’ve started further along in the seduction process than OP did.

Please be aware just because two people sleep together with mutual consent doesn’t mean seduction took place.


As for the other question: most women only start communicating like men, directly, when they see that subtle cues aren’t being picked up. Before she told him directly that she likes to take things slow, she was signalling that indirectly through:

• Pulling away slightly when he put his hand on her back
• Visibly showing annoyance when he stroked her hair
• Saying she doesn’t like to be touched
• Not reciprocating any physical affection
• Giggling at flirtation, but not escalating or encouraging further touch

I don’t think this was a **** test. It looked like a clear attempt to set a boundary.

That said, we don’t know her real intentions or her POV. She may have just wanted a free drink, an ego boost, or never intended to get to know OP at all. This is why I don’t ask women out right away, I prefer to let them invest in me a bit first to screen out situations like this. Personally, I think she briefly placed him at the top of her orbiters to vet whether he was worth further effort, while OP may have thought he was already on a second date.

Ultimately, advice here is always like shooting in the dark, because we don’t know the full story. OP may have left out key details—intentionally or not—that could shift the interpretation completely on or against his behalf even further.

 

[Oatmeal31]

TL;DR:
She showed clear signs of discomfort before stating her boundary, and without knowing her true intentions, it’s likely OP misread the situation, thinking it was a date while she may have just been casually vetting him. A guy she was more attracted to would’ve likely started further along in the interaction and faced less resistance.

Due to the many ideologies surrounding this and the complexity of the question, I’ll try to keep my response as concise as possible:

First and foremost, seduction is the process of drawing someone in, making them want you, pursue you, and ultimately possess you. The reason why you want someone to desire you can vary (sex, money, power, popularity, the challenge, being enjoyable to be around, etc.), but the game is mutual: both parties are seducing each other at the same time.

Seduction generally follows a similar progression: interest → desire → emotional connection/attachment → physicality/sex. If both parties are equally attracted to each other, they’ll start around the same point and both will need to invest the same amount of effort. However, if one is much more interested than the other, say, the stereotypical “creepy guy” with oneitis for the cheerleader, he’ll have to put in significantly more work just to get her to the starting line, while she might already be in the emotional connection phase just by being aware of his interest.

With this in mind: yes, if she were more attracted to another guy, he would’ve started further along in the seduction process than OP did.

Please be aware just because two people sleep together with mutual consent doesn’t mean seduction took place.


As for the other question: most women only start communicating like men, directly, when they see that subtle cues aren’t being picked up. Before she told him directly that she likes to take things slow, she was signalling that indirectly through:

• Pulling away slightly when he put his hand on her back
• Visibly showing annoyance when he stroked her hair
• Saying she doesn’t like to be touched
• Not reciprocating any physical affection
• Giggling at flirtation, but not escalating or encouraging further touch

I don’t think this was a **** test. It looked like a clear attempt to set a boundary.

That said, we don’t know her real intentions or her POV. She may have just wanted a free drink, an ego boost, or never intended to get to know OP at all. This is why I don’t ask women out right away, I prefer to let them invest in me a bit first to screen out situations like this. Personally, I think she briefly placed him at the top of her orbiters to vet whether he was worth further effort, while OP may have thought he was already on a second date.

Ultimately, advice here is always like shooting in the dark, because we don’t know the full story. OP may have left out key details—intentionally or not—that could shift the interpretation completely on or against his behalf even further.

Thanks for a level headed answer. SW15's last one was good too. She was asking me questions back the whole time, and only ordered one $9 mocktail, so there's a bit more context. She was showing enthusiasm, smiling and giggling a lot. Qualifying herself.

All of that and the fact that she was down to meet me the same night makes me think she doesn't go on a lot of dates. Left me confused for sure with the boundary.

I would just chalk it up to physical incompatibility, and posted after feeling a certain way, but insight from anyone who's dealt with a very similar situation is welcome