Crises point. I want to settle but at what cost.

[BackInTheGame78]

Also OP, trust me, you don't want to settle. It will gnaw at you until you can't take it anymore and then will either get divorced or start cheating because you will have interest from someone who is better and more on your level.

Settling only leads to depression and melancholy as you get older and realize you fvcked up and took short term gain that leads to long term pain.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Its a catch 22. If you get a large notch count in your 20s you waste oppurtinuties to start a family but you get experience with women. You also leave a trail of imprinted crying girls.

If you settle down early you are blue pilled and you get divorce raped. I guess its pick your poison.

The problem is people say "start a family" like its going to the supermarket to pick up some shopping

IMO you can't start a family until you have done absolutely EVERYTHING it is YOU as a man want to do

Otherwise you will just grow resentful and the chances are your relationship will break down by the time you reach 40 anyway

Personally i would rather take my chances whilst i was younger do everything i wanted to do and if that means being single so be it

The most damaged men i see are ones that have gone through divorce in their late 30's early 40's

The way society is now i am betting that within 10 years we will see an absolutely massive amount of single 30 & 40 somethings who's realtionships have fallen to sh1t

 

[pipeman84]

That had more to do with so many women dying in child birth and it increasing drastically as women aged back then.

Plus needing to have double the number of kids you wanted because half of them would die growing up. With a young woman, it was much easier to do this as she had a lot of child bearing years in front of her versus someone in their late 20s or early 30s.

Additionally the life expectancy back then was far lower so unless you wanted children who would be orphans, it was wise for the mother to be young so they would at least have 10-15 years of being raised by at least one parent. Obviously both parents are important but in their younger years the Mother plays a much greater influence usually.

You fail to understand the context and the time period this was said in.

I disagree with this. IMO that advice comes from an understanding of the basic male-female dynamics and the characteristics required from men and women so that a family has best chances to succeed. One needs a man who has had life experience and accumulated some wealth (indicating he's capable of being a leader) and a young fertile woman who hasn't got baggage. None of this modern BS where a woman hoes around during her most fertile years and then settles in her 30s with a man younger than her. That's as ridiculous from an evolutionary and logical POV as being a vegan.

From what I've read, the life expectancy in ancient Greece and Rome (at least for those who were well off) was pretty much the same as ours today.

If one’s thirties were a decrepit old age, ancient writers and politicians don’t seem to have got the message. In the early 7th Century BC, the Greek poet Hesiod wrote that a man should marry “when you are not much less than 30, and not much more”. Meanwhile, ancient Rome’s ‘cursus honorum’ – the sequence of political offices that an ambitious young man would undertake – didn’t even allow a young man to stand for his first office, that of quaestor, until the age of 30 (under Emperor Augustus, this was later lowered to 25; Augustus himself died at 75). To be consul, you had to be 43 – eight years older than the US’s minimum age limit of 35 to hold a presidency.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I disagree with this. IMO that advice comes from an understanding of the basic male-female dynamics and the characteristics required from men and women so that a family has best chances to succeed. One needs a man who has had life experience and accumulated some wealth (indicating he's capable of being a leader) and a young fertile woman who hasn't got baggage. None of this modern BS where a woman hoes around during her most fertile years and then settles in her 30s with a man younger than her. That's as ridiculous from an evolutionary and logical POV as being a vegan.

From what I've read, the life expectancy in ancient Greece and Rome (at least for those who were well off) was pretty much the same as ours today.

Life expectancy in ancient Rome was 27. But nice try.

 

[Epicwinguy]

I don't understand why a man would freak out about not having a kid.

 

[Ricky]

These women should be willing to move to you if they are that into you. Telling you to move to them is them trying to see how much of a chump you are.

Agreed. The only reason i'd move to a city a woman i knew was in, would be for better opportunities in that city. It's a tough frame to be moving for her..

 

[2Rocky]

The LTR Questionnaire:

Keep meeting women until you find one who answers all these points to your satisfaction.


Is she available to commit to a relationship with me?



Do I love her for who she is right now, who she is today?



Does she blame her ex, kids, other people, or circumstances for her life situation?



Is this what I really want?



Am I afraid to be alone?



Does she talk too much (especially about herself) and tend to monopolize the conversation?



Does she appear to be poor listener?



Do I find myself wanting to “help” or rescue this divorced or divorcing woman because I see her potential?



Is she emotionally distant?



What kind of effort does she make to really connect?



Does she walk her talk? Does what she says about herself appear to match reality?



What am I most attracted to about her?



Do I find myself focusing on one important quality (sex, fun, humor, money, etc), while ignoring unmet relationship requirements?



Do we share values?



Is she pessimistic or negative about things that matter to me?



Does she appear to still be pining for her ex or another past relationship?



What do this woman and I have in common?



What are the glaring differences between me and my partner?



Am I avoiding looking at the differences, because of the important things that we have in common?



Does she appear to accept feedback, take responsibility, and be willing to self-examine?



Is she honest in dealing with people, money, etc?



Does she appear to lack integrity?



Am I trying to change this woman to fit what I want, instead of accepting her for who she is?



Does it feel like I am on an emotional roller coaster, and that there is regular and recurring emotional drama in this relationship?



Does this woman tend to react to frustration with anger, rage and/or blame?



Does she try to control everything (including me)?



Would I want this woman to raise my child?



Is this woman looking to me to make her life better (especially if her life is particularly problematic?)



How is her attitude?



Does she appear to be overly judgmental toward herself or other people?



Does she have an active addition (or addictive disposition)?



If she has an addiction or addictive disposition, does she rationalize it as “not a problem”?



Can I depend on this woman to keep agreements?



Does this woman tend to be immature, impulsive, and/or irresponsible?



Would I want my child to be exactly like my partner?

 

[savi0r]

I'm in the same boat as you Pandora. Going 37 this year. I live in Eastern Europe, near a not so crowded city, surrounded by many small villages. So my hopes of finding a good traditional woman are still there. The downside is that people here are very traditional and the pressure to settle is becoming really annoying. If things would have worked out with my ex, i would have probably proposed last year or this year. Last year , towards the end, i found out my mom got cancer. So everything went downside from there. Also, i consider it my bad. Between my businesses, taking care of the house and my mom and other related stuff, i barely have time for anything. So i don't approach new women. I also don't have social media, so that also doesn't help. But i really hope on changing things this year.

 

[Deranged]

I'm in the same boat as you Pandora. Going 37 this year. I live in Eastern Europe, near a not so crowded city, surrounded by many small villages. So my hopes of finding a good traditional woman are still there. The downside is that people here are very traditional and the pressure to settle is becoming really annoying. If things would have worked out with my ex, i would have probably proposed last year or this year. Last year , towards the end, i found out my mom got cancer. So everything went downside from there. Also, i consider it my bad. Between my businesses, taking care of the house and my mom and other related stuff, i barely have time for anything. So i don't approach new women. I also don't have social media, so that also doesn't help. But i really hope on changing things this year.

You really don't know how good you have it. Some men would give everything to be in this scenario.

 

[savi0r]

You really don't know how good you have it. Some men would give everything to be in this scenario.

You're right. I read here about the dating scene and women from western crowded cities and i know i am in a good place where i am but still... Damn, i have to change things this year.

 

[Stanley]

Life expectancy in ancient Rome was 27. But nice try.

That would be due to infant mortality which reinforces your previous point, but he did specify 'well off'. The ancient demographies at large is a massive topic with insane amount of conflicting evidence. Records are not accurate and the data is often misinterpreted .

"When the high infant mortality rate is factored in (life expectancy at birth) inhabitants of the Roman Empire had a life expectancy at birth of about 22–33 years.[8][9][10] When infant mortality is factored out (i.e., counting only those who survived the first year, 67[8]-75% of the population), life expectancy is around 34-41 more years (i.e., expected to live to age 35–42). When child mortality is factored out (i.e., counting only those who survived to age 5, 55–65% of the population), life expectancy is around 40–45.[9] The ~50% that reached age 10 could also expect to reach ~45-50.[8] The 46-49% that survived to their mid-teens could, on average, expect to reach around 48–54,[9] although of course many lived much longer or shorter lives for varied reasons, including wars for males and childbirth for females"​

Imperial Women of Rome

The Imperial Women of Rome explores the constraints and activities of the women who were part of Rome's imperial families from 35 BCE to 235 CE, the Roman principate. Boatwright uses coins, inscriptions, papyri, material culture, and archaeology, as well as the more familiar but biased ancient...

www.google.com

 

[Plinco]

I cant settle down and its killing me. Went through a breakup got on OLD. Did "well" ( average chicks and single moms) because I used really good photos. Now I am about to turn 38 at a crises point.

Look at age as a sunk cost. You settle down when you want to, that's no one's decision but your own. It is your responsibility to make yourself happy.

1.) I have a decent looking ex in the midwest who we dated all through my 20s. Single mom pressuring me to uproot my life and move out there because she is miserable. Problem is her racist ex lives in the same town and wants to hurt me.

She's your ex and those are not your kids, why even mention her? This guy wants to hurt you? Are you capable of hurting him too?

2.) I got 2 single moms who I meet OLD as f- buddys. Now they are catching feelings hardcore. One is an amazing person but her baby daddy lives next door and still shares custudy etc. The other is recently seperated and is a wild one.

That's how single moms are. You should know better.

3.) A foreign chick who I broke up with but imprinted on her hardcore. She is 27 and is still not over me. I traumatized her enough to " change". She is willing to break up with bf in order to see me again. She wants me to move to her.

4.) Random azz 20 something who wants to smash but has an ex boyfriend who she still lives with ( go figure). Trouble.

Those are strictly up to you. If you don't want to settle with them, then don't.

The older I get the more unlikely it looks that I will ever have a kid. Every option looks terrible. I guess I will try to get my LMS up and we shall see. All I want is a kid..but the tradeoff seems to be a nightmare. Sorry for the ramble.

After reading this you sound like you have self-esteem issues. You can have anything you want, but you have to earn it.

You're 38 bro give up on kids. That ship has sailed.

My cousin had his third child in his late 40's.

 

[Pandora]

I don't understand why a man would freak out about not having a kid.

Because passing on our genetic material is the 2nd strongest instinct homo sapiens possess. It is also sad to be in a nursing home with no one to take care of you. I work in the medical field and its not pretty if no one is looking out for you in your old age. It is because of these 2 reasons a man would freak out not having a kid.

 

[Pandora]

The LTR Questionnaire:

Keep meeting women until you find one who answers all these points to your satisfaction.


Is she available to commit to a relationship with me?



Do I love her for who she is right now, who she is today?



Does she blame her ex, kids, other people, or circumstances for her life situation?



Is this what I really want?



Am I afraid to be alone?



Does she talk too much (especially about herself) and tend to monopolize the conversation?



Does she appear to be poor listener?



Do I find myself wanting to “help” or rescue this divorced or divorcing woman because I see her potential?



Is she emotionally distant?



What kind of effort does she make to really connect?



Does she walk her talk? Does what she says about herself appear to match reality?



What am I most attracted to about her?



Do I find myself focusing on one important quality (sex, fun, humor, money, etc), while ignoring unmet relationship requirements?



Do we share values?



Is she pessimistic or negative about things that matter to me?



Does she appear to still be pining for her ex or another past relationship?



What do this woman and I have in common?



What are the glaring differences between me and my partner?



Am I avoiding looking at the differences, because of the important things that we have in common?



Does she appear to accept feedback, take responsibility, and be willing to self-examine?



Is she honest in dealing with people, money, etc?



Does she appear to lack integrity?



Am I trying to change this woman to fit what I want, instead of accepting her for who she is?



Does it feel like I am on an emotional roller coaster, and that there is regular and recurring emotional drama in this relationship?



Does this woman tend to react to frustration with anger, rage and/or blame?



Does she try to control everything (including me)?



Would I want this woman to raise my child?



Is this woman looking to me to make her life better (especially if her life is particularly problematic?)



How is her attitude?



Does she appear to be overly judgmental toward herself or other people?



Does she have an active addition (or addictive disposition)?



If she has an addiction or addictive disposition, does she rationalize it as “not a problem”?



Can I depend on this woman to keep agreements?



Does this woman tend to be immature, impulsive, and/or irresponsible?



Would I want my child to be exactly like my partner?

This is a great list. Thank you for making it. The only issue is that no woman would ever pass. Very few of them meet even half of these requirements.

 

[Pandora]

Also OP, trust me, you don't want to settle. It will gnaw at you until you can't take it anymore and then will either get divorced or start cheating because you will have interest from someone who is better and more on your level.

Settling only leads to depression and melancholy as you get older and realize you fvcked up and took short term gain that leads to long term pain.

This is real talk.

 

[Pandora]

I had a child at 42, not the optimum age/situation, but not unfeasible if you know what you want.

As for your candidates, none look overly appealing logistically, I think the "don't look back"/move forward advice you're getting here is solid. Although the foreign chick has some slight appeal depending on where she is, but then why move to her if she's all wrapped up in your vapors, why not move to you?

If you're spinning them like you listed you shouldn't have too much trouble finding some more candidates with better potential.

We tried with the foreign one. They denied her Visa because she had a criminal record. She is a very cute girl with a checkered past. I think she was involved in theft. Thats a huge deal in a "Muslim" country.

Yes acquiring more candidates is not an issue for me. I am decent looking with game. I just don't have the SMV to get the quality ones. I get quantity but not quality. Those girls get taken by rich men or men who found them very early.

 

[Pandora]

That had more to do with so many women dying in child birth and it increasing drastically as women aged back then.

Plus needing to have double the number of kids you wanted because half of them would die growing up. With a young woman, it was much easier to do this as she had a lot of child bearing years in front of her versus someone in their late 20s or early 30s.

Additionally the life expectancy back then was far lower so unless you wanted children who would be orphans, it was wise for the mother to be young so they would at least have 10-15 years of being raised by at least one parent. Obviously both parents are important but in their younger years the Mother plays a much greater influence usually.

You fail to understand the context and the time period this was said in.

Even up until 120 years ago, you were lucky to get half your kids to reach adult hood.

People make the same fallacy with hunter gatherer tribal units. They say " oh they died at 35". They never read the source material for these claims. They just heard it somewhere and ran with it. The anthropologist factored infant mortality into the age. They did bad social science. The high infant mortality decreased the number for average life span.

The truth is that if you survived infancy you could easily live up to your 60s and 70s. Go online and look at videos of isolated tribes. You can see on camera that there are many people that are of advanced age in the tribal units. Its not just 20 yr olds. There are many people in their 40s and/or 50s atleast.

 

[Pandora]

OP, none of the 5 options you listed are suitable for LTR and to be the mother of your children. You already know that.
The claim that at 38 you're too old to be a father is total BS. Actually 40+ is the optimal age because it's the sweet spot between still being physically vibrant and having accumulated enough wealth and life experience to be able to raise a family without undue headache.

Yeh thanks for this.

 

[Pandora]

These women should be willing to move to you if they are that into you. Telling you to move to them is them trying to see how much of a chump you are.

They both wanted to move for me. The one with the baby can not move because of the custody agreement with her ex. The other tried to move but the Visa was denied. The one with the baby actually moved for me before. Of course I would not move for a woman that is perfectly capable of moving to ME.

 

[Pandora]

Wait am I missing something/ why would 37 be late to have kids? You’re attracting low tier women because I’m assuming your smv is low. If you were rich at 37 I can imagine you could date plenty of prime young 20 something year olds

Kind of. The average man attracts low tier woman because most women are low tier. My SMV is not that low. I have shown my face before and I am good looking ( not the best). I don't make a lot of money but I make more than most of the chicks I date. My mouth piece game is better than 99% of the guys on this site.

The selection in the USA is just really bad. If the selection in the USA was good we would not be on this site. Even above average guys have to settle for bottom of the barrel chicks in America.

Yes I agree if I was a rich guy in his 30's then I would attract better women. Remember though, rich guys in America date single mothers too. You would be surprised. In our head we think that most rich guys are Bruce Wayne. Even Bruce Wayne would have a hard time dating in the West. A prime 20s something that is quality is married by 25. She is atleast engaged. Most girls over 25 that are hot will not make good wives.