Best indicator of interest level: Compliance or Initiation?

[Spaz]

Good deal. Indicators of interest are not initiation. Of course women make an effort to look appealing. That’s not approaching or initiating.

Storm has simply moved the goalposts rather than debate on the merits.

I hold that compliance is the better indicator of a woman’s interest. Both initially and over time.

And I’m utterly consistent in that view here and elsewhere.

I don’t think confusing the less nuanced guys with what constitutes “initiation” helps anybody. Those of us with enough experience already know how to interact...so it’s academic for us. I agree with @fastlife & @samspade on this.

If you prefer a deferring woman who looks to her man for leadership that is.

Much of the rest is ego and posturing in this thread in my view.

So I’m pleased to be on Ignore. Thank you.

What r u talking abt BE?

Anyhow both fastlife and samspade are intellectuals, both needs data and operates from there since they lack what others take for granted.

I'll gladly debate with you the finer points on how to be an attractive male.

Seems like I need to step into this thread rather then seeing some of the noobs (phulease don't even bother lying that ur approach game yields consistent results) here dictating what's norm for rest.

 

[synecdoche]

What r u talking abt BE?

Anyhow both fastlife and samspade are intellectuals, both needs data and operates from there since they lack what others take for granted.

I'll gladly debate with you the finer points on how to be an attractive male.

Seems like I need to step into this thread rather then seeing some of the noobs (phulease don't even bother lying that ur approach game yields consistent results) here dictating what's norm for rest.

Please do, I would be happy to read your opinion on these matters.

 

[Spaz]

Please do, I would be happy to read your opinion on these matters.

I'm waiting for the lady bird to make a move 1st, or one of her 2 intellectuals to make some ballsy move on how their techniques yield excellent results.

Then I'll be the one teaching them the errors of their ways.

I wonder which one would be daring...

 

[Trump]

Guys there's no game. Truly there's none at all to be played.

If there's a game then it's just actually ur frame at play. The sum total of you.

If you pick up some strange "game" that's not part of ur frame then you will not be able to sustainably attract women.

That's why many men, even whilst attracting women at the initial stage (either by looks or through manipulation/game) can't sustain it because it was fake to begin with.

I've always consistently said many times over, to build up ur foundations as a man, from there slowly level up, ur attractiveness will rise in tandem with that growth.

It makes good sense what you are saying.

But one thing I think you Stormrider are forgetting is the man should focus on his goal with the woman first, and work from there. Now obviously it’s better to be 150% authentic 100% of the time, but she may not buy even if the man is authentic.

In a way it’s like lying on your resume to get hired. Once they hire you and get used to you, it’s much harder for them to fire you. Same thing with women, tell her what she wants to hear until you what you want from her (marriage, child), then you can be 150% authentic.

I got quite a friends who have lied to get married and have a daughter. They are decent guys who work hard, but didn’t have that Prince Harry James Dean type of feel, so they lied to her, ran game. Girl fell for it, got married, now they have a family.

Contrast that with the guy is working on himself, 150% straight with the girl, and authentic, runs no game, yet still single.

Now the question is: can a man live with himself without being 100% authentic to the girl and having to run game? I think so. When Donald Trump, Putin, Hitler, Chamberlain, Xi, Mao, Trudeau, Khomeini, Mandela, Kennedy, Bush, Obama, tells LIES to the people because they want to achieve their goal, layman like us on sosuave can run game on a girl to get what we want.

 

[Spaz]

It makes good sense what you are saying.

But one thing I think you Stormrider are forgetting is the man should focus on his goal with the woman first, and work from there. Now obviously it’s better to be 150% authentic 100% of the time, but she may not buy even if the man is authentic.

In a way it’s like lying on your resume to get hired. Once they hire you and get used to you, it’s much harder for them to fire you. Same thing with women, tell her what she wants to hear until you what you want from her (marriage, child), then you can be 150% authentic.

I got quite a friends who have lied to get married and have a daughter. They are decent guys who work hard, but didn’t have that Prince Harry James Dean type of feel, so they lied to her, ran game. Girl fell for it, got married, now they have a family.

Contrast that with the guy is working on himself, 150% straight with the girl, and authentic, runs no game, yet still single.

Now the question is: can a man live with himself without being 100% authentic to the girl and having to run game? I think so. When Donald Trump, Putin, Hitler, Chamberlain, Xi, Mao, Trudeau, Khomeini, Mandela, Kennedy, Bush, Obama, tells LIES to the people because they want to achieve their goal, layman like us on sosuave can run game on a girl to get what we want.

Why is women THE GOAL for men?

Who thought you that?

I trust you know that everything and anything in this world were created by men alone, never women.

And because of that, women's GOAL is actually only...... men.

After all, that's the only way they could ever get anything done.....through men.

Pitiful right?

So since u r a man that's gifted by God and nature to create things or even ideas out of thin air, why r u so busy making women the GOAL when women themselves ARE making men their GOAL.

Do I really need to write this down in a step by step ABC format for it to compute?

 

[samspade]

Stormrider, you made your point well and I'm happy for you to have the last word...no point in us discussing further as I'm sure I'll repeat myself. We disagree somewhat but like I've been saying, if you're getting what you want out of life and so am I, that's what matters. Reasonable men here can take away what they need and use it. Looks like some guys here are already learning something. Others won't but to each his own.

 

[Epic Days]

I’ve said it many times over and over again. Women initiate through body language and signs of interest. The guy is NEVER the initiator. In fact if you initiate without any cues from her she might think you are completely inexperienced.

I was waiting for this. @BeExcellent was purposely exaggerating and changing initiative to throwing themselves at men.

Though I’ve had this plenty of times, that’s not what you were communicating. She can’t help it. It’s very manipulative and dangerous. It’s reality twisting. Words have specific meanings and what she was saying was reality twisting. Lawyer stuff that women use in their narrative to keep men on the plantation.

 

[Epic Days]

It makes good sense what you are saying.

But one thing I think you Stormrider are forgetting is the man should focus on his goal with the woman first, and work from there. Now obviously it’s better to be 150% authentic 100% of the time, but she may not buy even if the man is authentic.

In a way it’s like lying on your resume to get hired. Once they hire you and get used to you, it’s much harder for them to fire you. Same thing with women, tell her what she wants to hear until you what you want from her (marriage, child), then you can be 150% authentic.

I got quite a friends who have lied to get married and have a daughter. They are decent guys who work hard, but didn’t have that Prince Harry James Dean type of feel, so they lied to her, ran game. Girl fell for it, got married, now they have a family.

Contrast that with the guy is working on himself, 150% straight with the girl, and authentic, runs no game, yet still single.

Now the question is: can a man live with himself without being 100% authentic to the girl and having to run game? I think so. When Donald Trump, Putin, Hitler, Chamberlain, Xi, Mao, Trudeau, Khomeini, Mandela, Kennedy, Bush, Obama, tells LIES to the people because they want to achieve their goal, layman like us on sosuave can run game on a girl to get what we want.

I’ve mostly been reading but I see what you are saying.

Equating the formula of initiative in work and daily life to women is a flaw. This is where you are going off the rails in your thinking.

When you approach or interact in such a manner, “she is the goal”, like others goals in life, you are actually validating her. She is getting everything she wanted by doing nothing. She is not worthy yet.

If she is attracted or “vibing” with you, she needs to signal you, get close to you, or in some manner initiate. That is what she wants anyway.

You are intellectually trying to ally up or combine the principles of men on a mission and the obtaining of women. It doesn’t work.

You are intellectually trying to obtain a woman. This is the wrong model.

 

[Epic Days]

I know. That's why I ignored her. She pulled a sazc and started playing games with me on purpose thinking I'd fall for it. What I usually do is dismiss instead.

Most women have no use beyond sex. And once they start overstaying their welcome and pushing past boundaries, you have to put them out to pasture.

Sazc was a master manipulator. She held stupid men on the plantation. Probably the most dangerous woman on these boards.

You did right by slamming Be. It was disgusting.

 

[Pajeet Singh]

Hi Pajeet here from “Girl is explicitly hating on me”.
So the girl of my story asked me for tea when everyone on my team knew I don’t mingle with people that much. Was this initiation? I ****ed up the thing though. Just want to know if it strong indicator?

 

[samspade]

Hi Pajeet here from “Girl is explicitly hating on me”.
So the girl of my story asked me for tea when everyone on my team knew I don’t mingle with people that much. Was this initiation? I ****ed up the thing though. Just want to know if it strong indicator?

She's a man! Kidding, yes, it's a great indicator, lol. (I didn't read your story so it's based on this post.)

 

[fastlife]

From my own personal experience puas have the sh1ttiest game. And that’s ironic because they spend all their time obsessing about game. So why is it that most suck so bad even after spending thousands on boot camps?

It’s because the Pua frame is coming from a frame of lower status. For example, the mythical sh1t test does not exist. Women don’t test you for dominance, they sense dominance first, and then react to it, either by supplicating to you or knocking you off your pedestal.

A Pua would never know this even after years in the field and thousands of approaches. He’s completely brainwashed by the community and disconnected from reality. He’s living in a matrix created by former high school dweebs turned seduction gurus who give you solutions but the solutions create more problems and for $499, there’s a solution for that too, so on and so forth.

Another illusion is blowing yourself out by saying the wrong thing. Bars and clubs are set up as social matriarchs designed to get guys to spend money on drinks. They are actually not the most social environments. A lot of women have their shields up and the average guy is going to ruin his self esteem because he’s going to accumulate hundreds of rejections before he even gets over approach anxiety.

And after he gets over anxiety, he will accumulate hundreds of flakes. And after he gets over flakes, he’s going to accumulate hundreds of last minute resistance, and after he solves LMR, he’s going to accumulate hundreds of women ghosting him. And after he solves that, he’s going to accumulate women trying to control the frame. And after he get over that he will realize that women aren’t really all that special and he can barely tolerate most for an extended period of time. This is if he hasn’t joined the priesthood aka MTGTOW yet.

After he discovers that only 1% of women are worth anything he will conclude that it is better to develop hobbies that revolves around self improvement like fitness. He is not limiting himself. He is being selective and coming from the frame of qualifying women. He no longer has any tolerance for 99% of the female population.

And after he puts himself into these environments he will realize that women are actually the real seducers. They live for romance and are always looking. Doesn’t matter if it’s at work, school, play, etc. But now, the RIGHT women are seducing him. Women on his wavelength and not entitled bar flooze that have nothing in common with him.

If you feel like chasing after random women, then go ahead. I personally would rather be in an environment where there is already built in commonalities. I don’t see how this strategy is limiting at all. There’s usually tons of women if you find the right environment. I used to volunteer at a recreation center tha had theatre, yoga, and dance and was stuck there for two years. It took me that long to get through all the women in my wavelength, lol.

Considering that 99.9999999999% of the population meet through shared social environments for hundreds of thousands of years, I think what I am advocating is pretty normal. In fact it might be the most normal and natural thing you can do regarding romance.

But hey if you want to reinvent the wheel and become the worlds greatest seducer then go ahead. For most guys, it’s completely unnecessary. Women exist in every single social environment there is.

My experience has taught me that the most beautiful women exists in mazes. You can’t find them online. They have no social media. You won’t run into them in bars. And puas have the sh1ttiest game I’ve ever seen most are weird and overcompensating. And when they talk to women, they go into and automatic state of supplication.

Even the so called gurus are weird. If this is what you want to be, then go ahead, lol. But you can’t convince most of the forum that being a Pua is a good idea. And you cannot convince the forum that doing what 99.9999999% of people have been doing since the beginning of civilization (meeting through shared social environments) is a bad idea.

You can try, but it’s futile. Simply because it ignores the very fundamental ingredients to a connection, which are wavelength, demographics, and commonalities. One simply can’t just go out and create it if he is authentic to himself. There’s only a handful of women that you have genuine chemistry with. Being a seducer requires you to be a chameleon who changes his personality and core essence just to vibe with the woman.

Also, I’ve seen guys that are average who pull like there is no tommorrow in the right social environment. What you are talking about doesn’t make sense because the degree of difficult in cold approaching is even higher. A guy who can’t hack it in social environments is going spend 10 years supplicating to women at the clubs. He has no frame of reference. He can try all he wants to game women but his frame will always be low status.

If you suck with women in social environments you are not going to turn into Don Juan at the clubs. It doesn’t work that way. It’s the other way around. Being a dominant leader in a social environment gives you a frame of reference, and you carry that frame into the clubs. Humans are tribal creatures, not nomads.

A guy who is a social outcast will never develop a frame of a dominant man. And if he was dominant, he wouldn’t be a social outcast. He would run And dominate his social environments.

He can perfectly rehearse the best pickup methods out there and his frame will still get him rejected. And if the Pua does get laid, it would be once in a blue moon, just enough to keep him going so he doesn’t lose all hope, lol.

Bro, you can talk to anybody anywhere for any reason without coming from a frame of lower status. You can even want to sleep with a girl and make a conscious decision to lead the interaction in that direction without coming from a frame of lower status. No one's saying to go up to girls with some routines or trickery--you go up to her because you want to fvck her or she piqued your interest and you're a fvcking guy and you have testosterone. Jesus christ lol.

99% of everything I've ever written on SS is about MINDSET. You internalize your value. You see a girl you want. You talk to her. You make eye contact. You lead the interaction. That's pretty much it. Every guy, at some point, will get together with his buddies and try to pick up girls. It's just human nature--no point not learning how to do it more effectively.

Bars and clubs are not a matriarchy. They're a business. You bring the hot girls to attract the high status guys to attract the average girls to attract all the other dudes, so that everyone buys drinks. All this means is that 1.) Someone already took the time to find the hot girls for you and put them all in ONE room. 2.) These hot girls turnover far more often than they would in a social circle. 3.) It's a fvcking bar so you social norms are more relaxed and the repercussions are far lower than if you tried to pick up some chick in your social circle and act like a weirdo. If your frame can't stand up to some chick who's feeling herself cause she has high value in a club, idk what to tell you. Those girls fold like lawn chairs.

If you can do well in a club, you can crush any social circle anywhere. The inverse--like you mentioned--isn't true. That's domain dependency--not scalable. The frat guy who kills it with the soros is still just a fly on the wall at a club. Why do you think those guys pretty much ALL get married right out of school? If a guy finds a nice watering hole, great, enjoy it, but eventually you're limiting your options. I care about options, replicability, and sustainability. That means taking the shortest route from A to B (i.e. not weaseling my way into a social circle when I can just go straight to the girl I want). If I want to join a social circle it's because those people give value to my life--and pvssy's a short-term investment.

Also lay off the strawmen. I specifically clarified that, no, I didn't mean that all women who initiate are trash. Just that IME they're almost always more needy and rarely top-shelf. Take that for what you will. If a girl sees you as dominant, plenty of them will get quiet, avert eye contact, and basically shell up unless you go and talk to her. Perfectly legitimate biological reaction. Those girls are generally more submissive and less 'masculine.' As the man, it's your responsibility to give those girls the opportunity of meeting you. I don't see why we're adding all these crazy considerations to a really simple process.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Bro, you can talk to anybody anywhere for any reason without coming from a frame of lower status. You can even want to sleep with a girl and make a conscious decision to lead the interaction in that direction without coming from a frame of lower status. No one's saying to go up to girls with some routines or trickery--you go up to her because you want to fvck her or she piqued your interest and you're a fvcking guy and you have testosterone. Jesus christ lol.

99% of everything I've ever written on SS is about MINDSET. You internalize your value. You see a girl you want. You talk to her. You make eye contact. You lead the interaction. That's pretty much it. Every guy, at some point, will get together with his buddies and try to pick up girls. It's just human nature--no point not learning how to do it more effectively.

Bars and clubs are not a matriarchy. They're a business. You bring the hot girls to attract the high status guys to attract the average girls to attract all the other dudes, so that everyone buys drinks. All this means is that 1.) Someone already took the time to find the hot girls for you and put them all in ONE room. 2.) These hot girls turnover far more often than they would in a social circle. 3.) It's a fvcking bar so you social norms are more relaxed and the repercussions are far lower than if you tried to pick up some chick in your social circle and act like a weirdo. If your frame can't stand up to some chick who's feeling herself cause she has high value in a club, idk what to tell you. Those girls fold like lawn chairs.

If you can do well in a club, you can crush any social circle anywhere. The inverse--like you mentioned--isn't true. That's domain dependency--not scalable. The frat guy who kills it with the soros is still just a fly on the wall at a club. Why do you think those guys pretty much ALL get married right out of school? If a guy finds a nice watering hole, great, enjoy it, but eventually you're limiting your options. I care about options, replicability, and sustainability. That means taking the shortest route from A to B (i.e. not weaseling my way into a social circle when I can just go straight to the girl I want). If I want to join a social circle it's because those people give value to my life--and pvssy's a short-term investment.

Also lay off the strawmen. I specifically clarified that, no, I didn't mean that all women who initiate are trash. Just that IME they're almost always more needy and rarely top-shelf. Take that for what you will. If a girl sees you as dominant, plenty of them will get quiet, avert eye contact, and basically shell up unless you go and talk to her. Perfectly legitimate biological reaction. Those girls are generally more submissive and less 'masculine.' As the man, it's your responsibility to give those girls the opportunity of meeting you. I don't see why we're adding all these crazy considerations to a really simple process.

I know you mentioned that Todd V's not your style but have you seen this video? Y'all pretty much agree 100% on the talking points

 

[nicksaiz65]

@stormrider

I just wanted to throw in my two cents real quick. You condemn PUA but did you know that Roosh V says some stuff very similar to you in Game? I swear if it wasn't for that book I never would've gotten laid, ever.

I probably shouldn't be quoting huge chunks of this book but oh well.

On finding women that are on your "wavelength":

"Don’t waste your time trying to create attraction. Instead, find a girl who is already naturally attracted to you. Earlier I said that if only 0.01% of girls in the world are attracted to you, there are still seven million girls who would jump in your bed. Simply find those girls. They’re in your city, your town, and your neighborhood. They will pass through your favorite cafés, bars, and shops. Maximize your value as much as possible, especially around the attraction triggers discussed earlier, and walk up to girls with an opener. Once you find one of the seven million, she will make it easy for you, to the point where you won’t even need half of the techniques I’m teaching you. If you want to sleep with girls who don’t have natural attraction for you, but want to feel good about yourself or impress your friends, things will be very difficult. You will have to put on a mask, pump yourself full of energy, and entertain girls in the hope that they will change their mind about you. You will have a hard time converting phone numbers into dates because you’ll be pursuing girls who mainly see you as a momentary distraction or an entertaining performer, and you may not even like the girls you do end up sleeping with."

On conquering your social environment:
"The easiest way to sleep with a girl in your social circle is to be the apex male, who the members generally agree is the highest-status man in the group. No girl in a social circle wants the bottom male, and even the bottom females want the top male. This fact alone should push you to invest only in social circles where you can be the apex male, or at least among the top three."


On letting women approach you in social circle so you don't get blown out:

"If you gain apex status within a social circle, a question that comes up is whether you should select girls in the group or let them select you. With cold approaching, you pick the girl and apply optimal game until you fail, but in social groups it’s better to display value to everyone in the group and then allow the women to invest in you by taking the initial steps to gain your favor. When a girl in your social circle likes you, she will flirt openly, ask questions to get to know you on a deeper level, and allow you to isolate her. You’ll also notice that she treats you more favorably than other men in the group."


On women sending IOIs first:
"Now that I’m middle aged, I cannot do many approaches a week. I need a way to filter the girls I am able to approach so that I have a significant chance of succeeding before burning out. I do this by warm approaching, where I act based on a positive signal that a girl sends to me or her environment."

"If you approach a girl who didn’t give you eye contact, or otherwise signal that she’s available, you are betting on her having high interest in you even though she failed to notice you, but let me ask you, if Ryan Gosling, Brad Pitt, or the man of her dreams walked into a room, would she notice him and make eye contact? Of course she would, because a woman can feel when a man she finds attractive is near. A girl can also feel when a man is looking at her. If the man staring at her is a Hollywood star with extremely high value, she would definitely lock eyes with him. This tells you that if your eye contact is not reciprocated, you are going into the approach knowing that she almost certainly doesn’t have high attraction for you. In this case, you had better hope that she is highly available."

I definitely agree with @samspade and @fastlife more on this one. That's great that you can do this in social environments naturally, but the average dude can't. Like Sam said, "I showed up for high school every day but I had a miserable time trying to get with chicks there." How can you just tell a guy who doesn't get it to find social environments/circles? Like Todd said in the video I linked, social circle isn't a replacement for Game. "You can be in the cool social circle/environment all you want, but if you don't have Game you're not getting laid."
-Todd V

"I'm not saying don't cultivate social circles. I'm not saying you can't pull from social circles. But it is not a replacement for Game, and exclusively relying on social circles is silly. Social circle is inherently limited."
-Todd V

"Guys will berate you for chasing girls, saying it's creepy, you should use social circle. But in reality they're actually doing the same thing. They're just doing it in a roundabout way by weaseling their way into a social circle instead of directly going for the girl they want."
-Todd V

Also, if it was working for you in your PUA phase why did you change it? You were getting a good amount of Bangs, which is success.

I swear Game is the best book ever. It really is comprehensive like Roosh V says. Todd V is awesome too.

But I just thought you'd find this interesting. Let me know what you think.

 

[Spaz]

@nicksaiz65

U r probably one of the few people here who has read the DJ Bible not once, not only twice but a few times.

You're also been searching for any relevant content in YouTube on how to seduce women.

You're got so many data.

You can quote so many names that I don't even know or even seducing techniques I've never tried nor heard off.

But I can tell you one thing, my results in getting laid from teens up until now far surpasses many many men.

Not only getting laid BUT being constantly admired by many many women to the point that I'm consistently invited out by women.

YET I don't know even 1% of what you know.

You are now the most professional Sosuave'er.

But yet you still struggle to get laid.

If u r to follow all those games suggested by many men here, I can almost guarantee that you will end up frustrated.

Can you not see those very men that's talking abt how great they are with their seduction techniques struggle in their 40's?

Do you want to waste ur life approaching women day in, day out, year in year out like those men and then come online to brag abt being a loser?

Yes, to me those men are losers. Sure they will say they are masculine, top of the food chain bla bla bla...

But its all lies.

If they are successful with women, why do they keep on needing to chase women constantly?

If u r the prize, don't women need to seduce you?

Different mindsets will influence ur behaviour in the real world and ultimately give you different results.

 

[darksprezzatura]

Compliance to meet > Initiation of conversation

 

[samspade]

This thread has turned from a rational debate among men into a circle jerk between at least two posters who are emotionally invested in wanting to be right rather than wanting to help.

I keep seeing pages upon pages of the same thing peppered with attempts to provoke, which is pretty sad. Meanwhile, @nicksaiz65 has posted one of the more rational and logical arguments, without prejudice.

Stormrider, assuming you're not the same user as Spazz, there should be no reason for you to be licking his nuts like that. I don't really read his posts anymore because he writes like a 12 year old girl and doesn't offer anything of substance; he's a troll who serves up sad attempts at insults rather than useful information and also a very weak man who would get eaten alive in any of the arenas in which I've excelled and continue to thrive.

Now earlier in the thread one of your more specious arguments was that Be Excellent agreed with me so ergo I must be wrong. This is a very irrational and feminine argument. It shows a lack of knowledge of the female mind, first of all - they don't always side with what's feminine but with what wins them favor. More importantly it's irrelevant, like blaming the president because white supremacists vote for him. You also engaged her repeatedly and then hamstered over her while I ignored her.

But the truth is if you're going to play that game, I'd rather have a woman in my corner than the two a$$ clowns you have supporting you on this thread, who not long ago vociferously defended a pedophile rapist and laid blame on children for being molested. This wasn't just one errant post but a series of posts where they dug in and held firm in their beliefs (and of course got the thread locked because they were so bonkers).

These are the guys you've been virtually making out with in this thread when you weren't posting War & Peace five times a day about how right you are. And remember I conceded that maybe you were right, but you seem bent on something other than mature, rational debate. I've ignored your straw men and attempts at soft trolling until now, because I thought it was cute that you were trying to poke everyone into fighting you and I'm not really into internet fights. I couldn't care less who thinks I'm right or wrong, it's a fukking seduction forum, not a nuclear reactor. But it appears that some men of very sound mind and happy, zen disposition agree with me, while some who traditionally supplant wild feminine emotion for logic and who are of sad, perverted morals are supporting you. Get mad if you want, I'm just reporting what happened.

I recommend you lighten up...you don't sound like a man who's at peace with himself sufficiently to attract women and you're going to cast doubt in the minds of readers here as well. When people see a guy posting long diatribe after long diatribe, insisting over and over again he's right, they're bound to wonder how he handles women.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt one final time to come at me with reason and coolness. Anything else will be dismissed summarily. Although I really don't know if I'll care anymore as this thread bores me now.

Any attempts by Spaz or anyone else to troll will continue to be deemed an act of desperate supplication to his better, henceforth and throughout the known universe.

 

[samspade]

@stormrider

I just wanted to throw in my two cents real quick. You condemn PUA but did you know that Roosh V says some stuff very similar to you in Game? I swear if it wasn't for that book I never would've gotten laid, ever.

I probably shouldn't be quoting huge chunks of this book but oh well.

On finding women that are on your "wavelength":

"Don’t waste your time trying to create attraction. Instead, find a girl who is already naturally attracted to you. Earlier I said that if only 0.01% of girls in the world are attracted to you, there are still seven million girls who would jump in your bed. Simply find those girls. They’re in your city, your town, and your neighborhood. They will pass through your favorite cafés, bars, and shops. Maximize your value as much as possible, especially around the attraction triggers discussed earlier, and walk up to girls with an opener. Once you find one of the seven million, she will make it easy for you, to the point where you won’t even need half of the techniques I’m teaching you. If you want to sleep with girls who don’t have natural attraction for you, but want to feel good about yourself or impress your friends, things will be very difficult. You will have to put on a mask, pump yourself full of energy, and entertain girls in the hope that they will change their mind about you. You will have a hard time converting phone numbers into dates because you’ll be pursuing girls who mainly see you as a momentary distraction or an entertaining performer, and you may not even like the girls you do end up sleeping with."

On conquering your social environment:
"The easiest way to sleep with a girl in your social circle is to be the apex male, who the members generally agree is the highest-status man in the group. No girl in a social circle wants the bottom male, and even the bottom females want the top male. This fact alone should push you to invest only in social circles where you can be the apex male, or at least among the top three."


On letting women approach you in social circle so you don't get blown out:

"If you gain apex status within a social circle, a question that comes up is whether you should select girls in the group or let them select you. With cold approaching, you pick the girl and apply optimal game until you fail, but in social groups it’s better to display value to everyone in the group and then allow the women to invest in you by taking the initial steps to gain your favor. When a girl in your social circle likes you, she will flirt openly, ask questions to get to know you on a deeper level, and allow you to isolate her. You’ll also notice that she treats you more favorably than other men in the group."


On women sending IOIs first:
"Now that I’m middle aged, I cannot do many approaches a week. I need a way to filter the girls I am able to approach so that I have a significant chance of succeeding before burning out. I do this by warm approaching, where I act based on a positive signal that a girl sends to me or her environment."

"If you approach a girl who didn’t give you eye contact, or otherwise signal that she’s available, you are betting on her having high interest in you even though she failed to notice you, but let me ask you, if Ryan Gosling, Brad Pitt, or the man of her dreams walked into a room, would she notice him and make eye contact? Of course she would, because a woman can feel when a man she finds attractive is near. A girl can also feel when a man is looking at her. If the man staring at her is a Hollywood star with extremely high value, she would definitely lock eyes with him. This tells you that if your eye contact is not reciprocated, you are going into the approach knowing that she almost certainly doesn’t have high attraction for you. In this case, you had better hope that she is highly available."

I definitely agree with @samspade and @fastlife more on this one. That's great that you can do this in social environments naturally, but the average dude can't. Like Sam said, "I showed up for high school every day but I had a miserable time trying to get with chicks there." How can you just tell a guy who doesn't get it to find social environments/circles? Like Todd said in the video I linked, social circle isn't a replacement for Game. "You can be in the cool social circle/environment all you want, but if you don't have Game you're not getting laid."
-Todd V

"I'm not saying don't cultivate social circles. I'm not saying you can't pull from social circles. But it is not a replacement for Game, and exclusively relying on social circles is silly. Social circle is inherently limited."
-Todd V

"Guys will berate you for chasing girls, saying it's creepy, you should use social circle. But in reality they're actually doing the same thing. They're just doing it in a roundabout way by weaseling their way into a social circle instead of directly going for the girl they want."
-Todd V

Also, if it was working for you in your PUA phase why did you change it? You were getting a good amount of Bangs, which is success.

I swear Game is the best book ever. It really is comprehensive like Roosh V says. Todd V is awesome too.

But I just thought you'd find this interesting. Let me know what you think.

You are learning and doing, good for you. Don't listen to haters who say otherwise.

I will now offer two pieces of practical information for you or anyone who is interested.

1. A thought experiment. Compliance vs. initiation. I will offer two scenarios. Note that there can be other combinations but for the sake of this thread we'll make it a:a and b:b. Opposing counsel has insisted that initiation = subcomms and IOIs, which is debatable. I'm going to allow it.

a. Initiation, no compliance. You're at an event in public. A girl keeps looking at you (initiation) so you talk to her. After several minutes of great rapport, you say, "Hold my beer. I'm going to the bathroom." She says, "you hold it." Later, you say, "This place is noisy. I know a good lounge around the corner; let's go there for a glass of wine." She says, "I just met you and I'm not leaving here alone with you...besides, my friends are here."

b. No initiation, compliance. You're at the same event. You see an attractive woman who hasn't noticed you yet. So you strike up a conversation. After several minutes of great rapport, you say, "Hold my beer. I'm going to the bathroom." She says, "No problem." Later, you say, "This place is noisy. I know a good lounge around the corner; let's go there for a glass of wine." She says, "Okay, sure."

Note that neither is a killer and there are lots of outcomes and combinations. But since this has been framed as binary, these are the two scenarios. I won't tell you which is "better," that is up to you and your personal preference. It's not a test, it's for each person to decide for himself.

2. An insight. Stormrider is part right. Social circles are great sources for interactions. But here's a little secret, and I mentioned this before in another thread. You can take this to another level. My social circle is wherever I am, and wherever I go. The people in it are the people I see and, if they're lucky, choose to invite. If they decline, that's cool. If I'm in a cafe, a bookstore, a bar, or in line at the DMV, that's still my circle. I can talk to anybody I want to and I don't restrict myself to scheduled events. I don't limit myself to binary notions of when it's okay vs. when it's not. Note that some have argued about how talking to women makes you appear to others. If someone is worried about how they appear to others, they are operating from weak frame. The only thing that matters is how comfortable and natural you feel (it doesn't even matter if the chick thinks you're weird, screw her, there are plenty). You can get this way by talking to everyone from old men to little puppies. Fear of being labeled a "PUA" is a waste of energy. Avoid the unhappy and the unlucky and do what works for you.

 

[samspade]

Samspade, relax, bro, lol.

As for your emotional tantrum, i have nothing to say about that, lol, I guess that’s how you feel. Hakuna matata my boy.

Nice try my friend. I'm always relaxed. If you read into my sober post something on par with an emotional tantrum, that's all in the eye of the beholder. But it's all good, anyone can comb through this thread to see who's more zen vs. who's emotionally invested in being sees as "right." I really don't care who thinks I'm right.

As for the rest, good for you - I'm glad. Your experience is your own, mine is mine. I know what works for me and am happy with it. Sounds like you are too.

 

[guru1000]

Everyone knows I am a genius when it comes to romance. In fact, even @guru1000 writes to me asking about his sticking points. I can show you thread after thread how 90% of his game philosophy came directly from me. I @ him directly because I know he’s not going to refute me.

A 35 yo insolvent man whose Life experience was managing a beauty parlor and as a current W2 city employee yet preaches about ambition while Banging 6s taught Guru1000?

LOL

don’t devalue my words by comingling them with anything that you ever wrote. But if wish to provoke my contribution into this thread through artifice, then I will expose your false face and crush your overreactive ego for your own benefit.

I already taught you the detriment of ego. If I must teach you twice then the cost of my time will be a lifetime stamp of guru1000 in your psyche. Just always remember following the ensuing kindergarten exchange, I don’t do this to you, but FOR you.