After first dates they don't initiate contact

Dr.Suave

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Another case from last night, met with a Ukrainian girl (26), had a good time, then she says we'll text and now messages me that she didn't feel the chemistry. What does it take with these women these days? Whether I'm being myself or trying to be something else (a.k.a playing the game), neither seems to be working.
- Maybe she lost interest or had low interest to begin with.
- She met a better option
- You didnt give her the Vaginal Tingles
- She perceives you a a beta provider but she hasnt reached the Epiphany phase yet. She´s still in the party years: She wants to ride the C0ck Caroussel and chase Chad
- Maybe she was dissapointed you didnt try to escalate.
- Maybe you gave off needy vibes, or feminine vibes, or boring vibes at some point during the date and you dried her p00zy

Or a combination of the above.

What does it take with these women these days? Maybe its not about either being yourself or playing the game. Those by themselves are clearly not working for you. You could try Demonstrating Higher Value, but that by itself could only work during The Epiphany Phase. If she´s still in The Party years and if you dont give her the Vaginal Tingles it probably wont work. You need to give them the Vaginal Tingles. Easier said than done but you have to put in the work.
 

VirtuousD

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The "text me when you get home so i know you got back safe" method i think is probably the best middle ground, you've specifically indicated you want to hear back from her to eliminate any fears she may have that you aren't feeling her . If she can't even do that after I've paid for a meal/activity for both of us then something is clearly wrong.

I'm not down with all that old fashioned you need to initiate everything from setting up dates to breathing in this day and age. Willing to accept this may slightly f***k up the odds of a second date in some cases but i'm not losing any sleep over not seeing a lukewarm at best prospect again.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

Demure women don’t initiate. Even more true when the girl is very desirable with lots of options. Men who won’t initiate are not being the man in the interaction, and they don’t get another shot because the very best women don’t chase men, rather they respond to men who reach out if they are interested.

Every man I have dated initiated. Every. Single. One. And they continued to initiate; and I continued to be receptive. That is masculine energy (initiation) and feminine energy (response).

Even now with my fiancé he does 75% initiation of the calling or texting. And when he reaches out I respond.

When you expect the woman to exude masculine pursuit type energy, you abdicate the male role. And you also screen out the best women (who were brought up to wait for a man to show initiative), and you’ll never know if a higher tier girl could be into you, because you didn’t pick up your nut sack and contact her again.

So in doing this you screen out the better women and you select for the more desperate insecure ones who will in time be seen as pestering you when they blow up your phone. In time you’ll find this behavior a turn off and you’ll wonder why you ended up with a masculine energy girl.

Well that’s what you select for when you are too lazy, scared or entitled and you want the girl to do the man’s job, you get masculine energy girls and then you wonder how that happened. Sheesh.

Feminine women won’t initiate. But they will respond. Think about birds and mating displays. The male bird does the display and the female bird responds to it. Female birds do not go around doing the male’s job. And neither do feminine women.
 
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BoostedArrow

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I kinda agree with @BeExcellent

Isn't it the man's job to lead the interactions? If I ask her out and she happily complies, why should that be a problem?
Some girls are just naturally passive. Be it bc. of cultural reasons or bc. she's shy or sth.

Also, as already said in the thread: women get thrown hundreds of ****s per day at their face, and some ****s have some 'chad-ish' type of guy attached. Add short attention spans to it and you get a nice ****tail of 'you get drown in the sea of female-options'.
They just have more options, some of them might even be better than you. So I think it might be natural that they quickly get invited on other dates if you wait too long. In that case it would be better to just strike fast, or faster than other guys that wanna snack the girl off of you.

Just waiting for a girl to do sth. after ONE date gives me the "secret-king"-vibes and is kinda arrogant ngl.

For OP: if you didn't f*ck her, you didn't leave an impression. There's no reason for her to chase you. She got a (probably) free date and didn't have to do anything. So I wouldn't worry about initiating FIRST but about initiating AT ALL and get a second date at all where you have the possibility to f*ck.
 

Learning Curve

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I've been on a number of first dates these last few weeks and all apart from one (which raised red flags) have not actively initiated contact/messages. They always reply fast and we have a good back and forth, but nothing initiating on their own. I don't act particularly different from my usual self, which is a bit reserved but with joking humor thrown here and there, as I'm a serious type. Is this the case for most of you guys' first dates as well, after the first date, you have to initiate contact 90-100% of the time?
In the beginning, the woman has nothing to be attached to, if she likes you she will initiate contact. But is rare.

The best approach that worked for me through the years is to get the first date and reach out again in 5-7 days. This gives time to the woman to reach out if she really likes you and gives also space to all the needy guys who are chasing her every single day since you are not actually contacting her at all.

If she reaches out go ahead and schedule the next date, if she does not reach out, you reach out and schedule it is that simple.
 
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user252009

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Went on a first date with a 20 year old Ukrainian this Saturday, she seemed a bit shy but we had a good time, I reached out with a short message yesterday and we exchanged a few messages. Seeing that I paid for the date, made sure she caught her transport home safely and also reached out after, I’ll leave it to her to contact me next. Have another date set with another, 28 y.o. this coming Saturday.
 

manfrombelow

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Im on record has always saying this. You went on the date. Went well? You dont know. She contacts first.
No exceptions these days for this.
If she contacts you after the 1st date, you know it went well.
 

manfrombelow

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I always see first dates as investments.

Think about it. In terms of investments, what are "1st dates"?

You show up at the date venue. You engage in conversation with the chick. You pay for all related expenses. You invest your MONEY & TIME & ENERGY to give the both of you a good time. That's big investment.

After the 1st date, assuming everything REALLY WENT WELL (You did not act like a dork. You did not say or do anything that offended her. You completed the date night with a kiss close, or even better: A fvck), then all you need to do from that moment on is simple: Just sit back, relax, and let the chick does what she loves to do best once she's romantically & sexually attracted to you: Contact you on her own free will.

So, the ROI here is calculated based on:

1. Whether or not the chick contacts you.
2. The frequency she contacts you.
 

user252009

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I'm getting pretty depressed over this now...Met with a 20 y.o. Ukrainian, average date, nothing special, but we continued to chat after, asked her to meet me this coming weekend, she says not sure

Then I meet this amazing girl this past weekend (also first date), fellow creative, from the same country as me and living in the same city abroad, we have a true real connection, cute, hot, and I could talk to her for the rest of my life due to very similar interests. I message her after the date, still hasn't read it and it's been two days since, though she watched my stories, naturally no reply yet either

What the actual f is going on?
 

manfrombelow

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I'm getting pretty depressed over this now...Met with a 20 y.o. Ukrainian, average date, nothing special,
1. A good first date is defined as having sex, or at least having passionate French kisses or nipples svcking (so that sex would 99,999% happen on the next date). So an "average, nothing special" first date is in itself a big fat redflag: Somehow the girl was simply not sexually or romantically attracted to you.

asked her to meet me this coming weekend, she says not sure
2. "Not sure" means she's not interested in seeing you again for another date that you're going to pay for all expenses. Think about it: Would she be "not sure" about meeting up with Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, or Henry Cavill? Think about it. She's "not sure" about you, not about some other guys who know how to make her vagina tickle.

I message her after the date, still hasn't read it and it's been two days since, though she watched my stories, naturally no reply yet either
3. Again: Would she take the risk of losing Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, or Henry Cavill by leaving their messages as unread (on purpose, of course)? The fact she left you on unread while purposely watching your stories means one thing and one thing only: She's not that into you, sexually and romantically. Because if she was, she would communicate with you better.

What the actual f is going on?
4. Maybe you svck at seducing women aka your Game was weak AF? Maybe that's what's going on?

5. At the age of 38, you clearly are not dating and going out with enough women, brother. You made rookie mistakes and you asked rookie questions.
 
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user252009

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1. A good first date is defined as having sex, or at least having passionate French kisses or nipples svcking (so that sex would 99,999% happen on the next date). So an "average, nothing special" first date is in itself a big fat redflag: Somehow the girl was simply not sexually or romantically attracted to you.

2. "Not sure" means she's not interested in seeing you again for another date that you're going to pay for all expenses. Think about it: Would she be "not sure" about meeting up with Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, or Henry Cavill? Think about it. She's "not sure" about you, not about some other guys who know how to make her vagina tickle.

3. Again: Would she take the risk of losing Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, or Henry Cavill by leaving their messages as unread (on purpose, of course)? The fact she left you on unread while purposely watching your stories means one thing and one thing only: She's not that into you, sexually and romantically. Because if she was, she would communicate with you better.

4. Maybe you svck at seducing women aka your Game was weak AF? Maybe that's what's going on?

5. At the age of 38, you clearly are not dating and going out with enough women, brother. You made rookie mistakes and you asked rookie questions.
I'm not necessarily looking at banging everything and anything, I want some sort of connection or my interest naturally goes down. I'm not a player, I'm an introverted artist sort of person. You're also referencing a lot of apex fallacies there
 

Hamurabimbi

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I've been on a number of first dates these last few weeks and all apart from one (which raised red flags) have not actively initiated contact/messages. They always reply fast and we have a good back and forth, but nothing initiating on their own. I don't act particularly different from my usual self, which is a bit reserved but with joking humor thrown here and there, as I'm a serious type. Is this the case for most of you guys' first dates as well, after the first date, you have to initiate contact 90-100% of the time?
Do you give them a kiss?
 

Pierce Manhammer

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TLDR;

One thing is that “game” is normalized now, the average woman has heard about PUA tactics and game. Many have their own forums where they espouse their own form of game. Many of those are basically using men’s PAU tactics and rebranding them as their own original thoughts too.

So now you have two young folks that are attracted to each other, the guy is using a rigid set of rules “she must initiate contact”, “I can only text once for every 6 of her texts” or whatever other advice has been touted about. The issue is she’s doing the same.

The result: a Mexican staring match.

Develop your own dating style, do what feels right, you’re going to mess up, it’s part of life, it’s part of growth. Nothing will ever be textbook, develop a gut instinct. Be patient.

Just my $.02
 

Rainrain

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Then I meet this amazing girl this past weekend (also first date), fellow creative, from the same country as me and living in the same city abroad, we have a true real connection, cute, hot, and I could talk to her for the rest of my life due to very similar interests. I message her after the date, still hasn't read it and it's been two days since, though she watched my stories, naturally no reply yet either

What the actual f is going on?
What do you want to persue with her? Friendship? Relationship? Sex? How did you covertly tell her what you want with her during your date? How hot is she?

I am assuming from all the talking she took it like you wanted a friendship or relationship from her and maybe she wanted other things. Maybe you suck at reading or expressing signals, wanting sex but coming off as wanting a relationship…

Also, let them text you first or go with the flow after the date.
 

user252009

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What do you want to persue with her? Friendship? Relationship? Sex? How did you covertly tell her what you want with her during your date? How hot is she?

I am assuming from all the talking she took it like you wanted a friendship or relationship from her and maybe she wanted other things. Maybe you suck at reading or expressing signals, wanting sex but coming off as wanting a relationship…

Also, let them text you first after a date.
She's one of the rare kind that I would actually consider a serious relationship with. What do you mean "covertly tell her what you want"?
 

user252009

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I’ve forced it. For me, if they’re not up for a kiss: Next them. But I like to move quickly.
I have dates very rarely, so if I move on quickly (and I do if the girl is clear about her non-intentions), I'm back to nothing...For the next several months at least
 

Rainrain

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She's one of the rare kind that I would actually consider a serious relationship with. What do you mean "covertly tell her what you want"?
How do you tell someone you want to bed them? You make sexual innuendos, escalate, have fun, touching, kissing.
How do you tell someone you want a platonic relationship? Talking about problems, work, doing mundane stuff, keeping each other at an arms length (which she is basically doing to you right now by leaving you on read lol)

Covertly means giving someone signals of what you want instead of directly telling them with words.
 
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