How manoshphere dating advice failed men

CornbreadFed

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A lot of men do not simply want "a woman." They want a particular woman, or at least women who are in relatively high demand. This is where a lot of manosphere dating advice falls apart. It teaches men how to pick low hanging fruit while giving them a distorted picture of what the competition looks like once they pursue more desirable women.

You are fooling yourself if you think low demand and high SMV women have the same pool of men pursuing them. Yet a lot of manosphere content creates this fantasy that your competition consists primarily of beta male cucks who cannot string together a sentence, or that an attractive woman has nobody approaching her because every other man is intimidated.

In reality, even fairly average women can have professional athletes, wealthy men, attractive men, and socially competent men in their orbit. More importantly, your biggest competition usually is not some mythical Chad or incompetent beta. It is often a guy remarkably similar to you who is better at selling himself, taking initiative, and putting himself in situations where something can actually happen.

While you are limiting contact, calculating response times, and "holding frame" to manufacture the appearance of being a high value man, another guy is just asking her to Chili's or Steak 48, making her laugh, creating a connection, and fvcking her before your two week no contact period even ends.

The obvious response is, "Fine, then I'll just be more aggressive." But that misses the problem. A lot of men have zero on idea how to sell themselves because they have spent years being told that their natural personality is inherently "beta" and must be concealed behind a collection of behaviors designed to imitate a high value man or alpha male.

At some point, the performance becomes the handicap. Instead of developing attractive qualities and learning how to communicate them, you become obsessed with hiding yourself behind tactics. Meanwhile, the guy beating you might not be "higher value" at all. He may simply be more comfortable showing a woman why she should choose him.
 

Bigpapa

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Guys focus too much on value and forget that attainability and women self esteem play / mental problems have a huge role in the courtship process too. even more than the value aspect

if you are a low value guy, then yeah value is important, but once you reach decent value the other forces become more and more important
 
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taiyuu_otoko

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Manosphere advice used to be pretty good.

But in the competitive world of social media influencers, the most "compelling' ideas get the most traction.

And what are the most compelling ideas for the modern, petrified of his own shadow, dysfunction male?

It's not your fault.

Women are evil.

The system is rigged.

etc.
 

BaronOfHair

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@CornbreadFed "Yet a lot of manosphere content creates this fantasy that your competition consists primarily of beta male cucks who cannot string together a sentence..."

The typical fella today resembles
far more closely than he does S. McQueen or even Pierce Brosnan in The Thomas Crown Affair. While I have gripes with many of The Manosphere's catechisms, their asssement of "the competition" is uncannily accurate


"...or that an attractive woman has nobody approaching her because every other man is intimidated"

My observation: The above varies greatly, depending on time of day/evening, locale, etc etc. At a grossly overpriced nightclub in Malibu on a Friday night... Yeah, most of the eyecandy on display will be there on the arm of some producer or executive. This isn't representative of daily life though, even in corners of the globe like Malibu:


Walk into that same nightclub on a Monday night, and many of the gals present will be single, with very few men approaching. And they'll generally be receptive to a man who DOES go in for the kill
 

BackInTheGame78

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@CornbreadFed "Yet a lot of manosphere content creates this fantasy that your competition consists primarily of beta male cucks who cannot string together a sentence..."

The typical fella today resembles
far more closely than he does S. McQueen or even Pierce Brosnan in The Thomas Crown Affair. While I have gripes with many of The Manosphere's catechisms, their asssement of "the competition" is uncannily accurate


"...or that an attractive woman has nobody approaching her because every other man is intimidated"

My observation: The above varies greatly, depending on time of day/evening, locale, etc etc. At a grossly overpriced nightclub in Malibu on a Friday night... Yeah, most of the eyecandy on display will be there on the arm of some producer or executive. This isn't representative of daily life though, even in corners of the globe like Malibu:


Walk into that same nightclub on a Monday night, and many of the gals present will be single, with very few men approaching. And they'll generally be receptive to a man who DOES go in for the kill
A direct result of the average 22 year having a T level of 422, the same as a 70 year old from the 1960s.
 

zekko

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Have you ever found yourself watching these manosphere shows on YouTube, and how they talk about women only being attracted to the top 10% men, and you start thinking "Am I supposed to buy that these guys on here are claiming that they are top shelf guys, top 10% guys?". I don't want to point out anyone in particular, but I often find myself wondering this lately.


In reality, even fairly average women can have professional athletes, wealthy men, attractive men, and socially competent men in their orbit..
I really think that most women of a certain age are attractive to men, as long as they aren't fat. I have a feeling a lot of guy here might disagree with me on that, but I really do think it's true. And it's the classic problem: Most women are attractive to men in the dating pool, but most men are not attractive to women. Sometimes women can become attracted to some of these guys if they get to know them though.
 

Bokanovsky

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Lol bro posting like it's 2007

Yes, be the best and most charismatic version of yourself

the sky is also blue on a sunny day.
Chat GPT didn’t exist in 2007.

If you are familiar with OP’s recent posting history, this is basically what he does. He takes AI generated slop, sprinkles it with outdated manosphere lingo like “holding frame” and tries to repackage it as some sort insightful content.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Bigpapa

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Have you ever found yourself watching these manosphere shows on YouTube, and how they talk about women only being attracted to the top 10% men, and you start thinking "Am I supposed to buy that these guys on here are claiming that they are top shelf guys, top 10% guys?". I don't want to point out anyone in particular, but I often find myself wondering this lately.



I really think that most women of a certain age are attractive to men, as long as they aren't fat. I have a feeling a lot of guy here might disagree with me on that, but I really do think it's true. And it's the classic problem: Most women are attractive to men in the dating pool, but most men are not attractive to women. Sometimes women can become attracted to some of these guys if they get to know them though.
fair point, but then we have to dig deeper on what most women do not find the guys attractive

I think most of it stems from the fact that most guys are actually weird. Weird enough that not even other guys want to spend time with them

i think this weirdness stems mainly from being over competitive, which for women signal that they are low value and for other guys that he is annoying

I think is a big stretch to expect to be good with women when you can not even be pleasant to other guys
 

CornbreadFed

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I think most of it stems from the fact that most guys are actually weird. Weird enough that not even other guys want to spend time with them
A lot of guys are weird, but you still have plenty of normal guys and weird guys that can still trick women in to having sex/getting in to a pointless LTR/Marriage with one. For example, I had a guy reach out to me about his girlfriend not showing genuine interest to him. Later, I found out he collects pokemon cards and the guy is almost 30. I’m guessing the guy hid all this crap from the girl earlier on during the relationship.
 

BaronOfHair

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A direct result of the average 22 year having a T level of 422, the same as a 70 year old from the 1960s.
This is, in no small part anyway, the result of deliberate behavior... No one is forcing is to spend most of our lives indoors, surviving solely on Twinkies


nightclubs mainly appeal to women though
If one is hunting caribou, it's prudent to venture into The Yukon, rather than prowling through downtown Newark
 
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