"The Kiss of Death Mistake"

You replay the conversation at 2 a.m. She texted back fast yesterday. Today, nothing. Was that smile friendly or flirty? What did the shoulder touch mean?

Every hour you spend decoding her signals drains your confidence and hands her the controls. Women can sense that insecurity from across the room — and it repels them.

One of the "22 Rules" kills the obsession on the spot: assume she likes you, and act accordingly. Sounds too simple. Works anyway.

Her interest tends to rise to meet your expectations. Psychologists call it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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She demands a 5th date out to dinner prior to banging

Focal core

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I think she's decided she doesn't like you enough to have sex and has gone into "let me see what I can get from this sucker" mode.

Remember:
Actions = her real intentions
Words (inc. texts) = what she wants you to believe
Man ive never ever ever gone past 2 dates prior bang.. Mostly are in one date.. Op situation looks like a girl offering transactional sex.. When its transactional theres never be a real intimacy.. Good lord, im quick to get bored by girls manipulation, i tend to ghost them without closure.. Let alone a 5th date?? What else is there to say on the date? Topic about Her panties size?
 

"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."

Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.

Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?

You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.

Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.

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TheNewStyle123

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manfrombelow

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OP, now I have read everything here and in the other thread of yours.

I don't know about the other DJs on here, but from my own experience, 3 (three) dates are maximum time for sex to happen. If, for whatever reasons, I can't fvck her at the 3rd date, then 99,999% I never will because her Interest Level in me would drop close to zero by then.

The fact you prolonged the entire courtship to the 5th date means you need to learn a lot more about the art of escalation, OP.

Remember: Whenever you fail to fvck a girl, she'll find another guy to do it for her.
 

"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"

She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.

Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.

The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.

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EyeBRollin

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OP, now I have read everything here and in the other thread of yours.

I don't know about the other DJs on here, but from my own experience, 3 (three) dates are maximum time for sex to happen. If, for whatever reasons, I can't fvck her at the 3rd date, then 99,999% I never will because her Interest Level in me would drop close to zero by then.

The fact you prolonged the entire courtship to the 5th date means you need to learn a lot more about the art of escalation, OP.

Remember: Whenever you fail to fvck a girl, she'll find another guy to do it for her.
This is a flawed sentiment by many men all over this forum. While you should be able to bang most women within three dates, it isn’t guaranteed. More importantly, it is not correlated to interest level. Some of the most consistent plates and all three of my long term girlfriends since becoming red pilled have waited a bit longer for sex. Usually a few more dates.

What guys need to understand is that patience is the key to women. It is a marathon not a sprint. Most guys operating on SMV get laid by luck because they are only able to keep a woman around for a couple weeks. When you operate in a more measured fashion and truly understand game, they stick around longer. Years and months as opposed to days and weeks. “Frame” is actually having the power to do the dumping.
 

manfrombelow

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This is a flawed sentiment by many men all over this forum. While you should be able to bang most women within three dates, it isn’t guaranteed. More importantly, it is not correlated to interest level. Some of the most consistent plates and all three of my long term girlfriends since becoming red pilled have waited a bit longer for sex. Usually a few more dates.

What guys need to understand is that patience is the key to women. It is a marathon not a sprint. Most guys operating on SMV get laid by luck because they are only able to keep a woman around for a couple weeks. When you operate in a more measured fashion and truly understand game, they stick around longer. Years and months as opposed to days and weeks. “Frame” is actually having the power to do the dumping.
Next time, a simple "I don't agree with this, because my opinion is different" is enough.
 

Lookatu

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This is a flawed sentiment by many men all over this forum.
I don't necessarily consider it a flaw. It depends on what they want. If wanting a potential GF, then yes. But if they are just after sex and don't want to exert the investment, then there are plenty of others that will give it up more easily and time spent on trying to woo or manipulate someone into sex is lost opportunity that you could've used the time to try to get with other girls. Sex should come easy if that's all you want.

With that said, I've played the long game more than on one occasion but it was justified and I didn't sense any kind of game playing on the other's part. The moment you sense any silly games, is when you eject. If you feel forward progress and no games, you proceed if you have the patience and are wiling to invest the time.

In this case, 22yo's generally have very little to no ASD so if she was really into him, it would've already happened IMO. Older gals would naturally put up more resistance.

Based on OP's history of just getting out of marriage and not wanting anything serious, I assumed he was just looking for fun and sex. And if that's the case, 5 dates is way too long IMO.
 

EyeBRollin

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Next time, a simple "I don't agree with this, because my opinion is different" is enough.
The comment is addressing reoccurring theme in threads posted on this forum. Guy doesn’t get sex quick enough, makes a thread on it, ejects the girl, then makes a follow up thread about how bad women are. That is the usual sequence.
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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Lookatu

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The comment is addressing reoccurring theme in threads posted on this forum. Guy doesn’t get sex quick enough, makes a thread on it, ejects the girl, then makes a follow up thread about how bad women are. That is the usual sequence.
This is probably the most damaging part and gives a false sense to some of the new comers here.

Simply, if they are not on your same track, just move onto someone that is. No need to bash them for not giving it up in the time frame that you wanted.
 

TheNewStyle123

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This is a flawed sentiment by many men all over this forum. While you should be able to bang most women within three dates, it isn’t guaranteed. More importantly, it is not correlated to interest level. Some of the most consistent plates and all three of my long term girlfriends since becoming red pilled have waited a bit longer for sex. Usually a few more dates.

What guys need to understand is that patience is the key to women. It is a marathon not a sprint. Most guys operating on SMV get laid by luck because they are only able to keep a woman around for a couple weeks. When you operate in a more measured fashion and truly understand game, they stick around longer. Years and months as opposed to days and weeks. “Frame” is actually having the power to do the dumping.
This is a really great point.
 

TheNewStyle123

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I don't necessarily consider it a flaw. It depends on what they want. If wanting a potential GF, then yes. But if they are just after sex and don't want to exert the investment, then there are plenty of others that will give it up more easily and time spent on trying to woo or manipulate someone into sex is lost opportunity that you could've used the time to try to get with other girls. Sex should come easy if that's all you want.

With that said, I've played the long game more than on one occasion but it was justified and I didn't sense any kind of game playing on the other's part. The moment you sense any silly games, is when you eject. If you feel forward progress and no games, you proceed if you have the patience and are wiling to invest the time.

In this case, 22yo's generally have very little to no ASD so if she was really into him, it would've already happened IMO. Older gals would naturally put up more resistance.

Based on OP's history of just getting out of marriage and not wanting anything serious, I assumed he was just looking for fun and sex. And if that's the case, 5 dates is way too long IMO.
You are correct. I do not want a LTR and I am simply looking to just hook up. I think at this point though I can make it happen by this date. If not, then I am certainly not going for a 6th date.
 

Lookatu

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You are correct. I do not want a LTR and I am simply looking to just hook up. I think at this point though I can make it happen by this date. If not, then I am certainly not going for a 6th date.
Do yourself a favor and don't give away your time and lost opportunity with others if all you're looking to do is hook up next time. Hook ups shouldn't take that long.
But I'm hoping you can get the flag on the 6th attempt. Live and learn either way. :up:
 

TheNewStyle123

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Do yourself a favor and don't give away your time and lost opportunity with others if all you're looking to do is hook up next time. Hook ups shouldn't take that long.
But I'm hoping you can get the flag on the 6th attempt. Live and learn either way. :up:
Exactly man, if I don't it sucks because that was time and money wasted, but it's all a learning experience! I'm willing to give it a 5th date and see.
 

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

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PRW63

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What do you think guys? Am I being a little too stubborn? Should I just take this girl to dinner as it will potentially end in sex? At this point, for me, I feel like I would totally lose frame if I gave into her demand for me to take her out to dinner, and I could go through all of that and still not get laid.
I think she knows you only want to get laid and are not really concerned for her herself. She's probably caught between generally liking you, but not wanting to be used for a cheap lay. I think she wants someone willing to build a future with her (family, kids, etc).
 

mrgoodstuff

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Escalating to the dinner date is a lose. If she has not shown desire by now then she's not going to show it. You should've at least made out with her at this point, like made it to 2nd base...
 

BillyPilgrim

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I think she knows you only want to get laid and are not really concerned for her herself. She's probably caught between generally liking you, but not wanting to be used for a cheap lay. I think she wants someone willing to build a future with her (family, kids, etc).
That's why you want to project the image of having a potential future with the girl unless it's clear she's down to hook up
 

BillyPilgrim

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This is a flawed sentiment by many men all over this forum. While you should be able to bang most women within three dates, it isn’t guaranteed. More importantly, it is not correlated to interest level. Some of the most consistent plates and all three of my long term girlfriends since becoming red pilled have waited a bit longer for sex. Usually a few more dates.

What guys need to understand is that patience is the key to women. It is a marathon not a sprint. Most guys operating on SMV get laid by luck because they are only able to keep a woman around for a couple weeks. When you operate in a more measured fashion and truly understand game, they stick around longer. Years and months as opposed to days and weeks. “Frame” is actually having the power to do the dumping.
I've found that quality women do tend to want to wait longer, but if they want to wait too long of a time the risk of nothing ever happening is so great that it's not worth pursuing. I try to get a feel over text for this (what speed limit towards sex they will tolerate). All of my LTR's happened with sex within 3 dates. If sex didn't happen within 3 dates, it didn't happen at all.
 

"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"

You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.

Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.

Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.

Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.

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