Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

I built it, they didn't come

BeExcellent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
4,614
Reaction score
6,452
Age
55
The correct question is how do you create the right vibe...

And the answer is going to pull you right out of your comfort zone and introversion and process driven existence and make you Hella uncomfortable...

You are smart as hell. You already know this. But it’s not what you want to hear because it’s not easy for you to solve.

Growth, real growth is never easy. You correct your attitude and therefore your vibe and you’ll completely change your results.

Now go reread the last part of my first post in your thread. The solution is sitting there.

Go do it.

Cheers
 

allergictobs

Don Juan
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
110
Reaction score
150
Age
40
Location
Central Europe
The correct question is how do you create the right vibe...

And the answer is going to pull you right out of your comfort zone and introversion and process driven existence and make you Hella uncomfortable...

You are smart as hell. You already know this. But it’s not what you want to hear because it’s not easy for you to solve.

Growth, real growth is never easy. You correct your attitude and therefore your vibe and you’ll completely change your results.

Now go reread the last part of my first post in your thread. The solution is sitting there.

Go do it.

Cheers
Thanks, you are definitely analyzing my situation correctly.

I've kind of known what the solution would be. What I'm not sure about and what even my first post was circling around - is it going to be worth it? This is where what you posted just a moment ago hits home:

You don’t like feeling as though you are wasting your time on such things that may go nowhere and feel frivolous while taking up your valuable time.

This here, in my view, is absolutely the biggest obstacle I face. I mentioned in some previous post that I view many issues through a cost-benefit analysis. Once I've determined that something is going to be largely a waste of time, I have a really difficult time getting to it.


You see, even if I managed to correct course and meet more women, at the age of 36, with a set of routines and a certain lifestyle, I strongly believe that I'm not going to find much happiness through social interactions with women. You are right about escorts and being process driven - I only value the outcome. Do you think it is possible to change that? Because I think it is a very deep part of someone's personality, probably determined before birth.

Since I don't place much value on social interactions, only on the end result (having sex), am I going to be more happy getting to the outcome directly (banging escorts) or going through all kinds of hoops to get into a relationship with someone I may not even be that into?
 
Last edited:

BeExcellent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
4,614
Reaction score
6,452
Age
55
Thanks, you are definitely analyzing my situation correctly.

I've kind of known what the solution would be. What I'm not sure about and what even my first post was circling around - is it going to be worth it? This is where what you posted just a moment ago hits home:

You don’t like feeling as though you are wasting your time on such things that may go nowhere and feel frivolous while taking up your valuable time.

This here, in my view, is absolutely the biggest obstacle I face. I mentioned in some previous post that I view many issues through a cost-benefit analysis. Once I've determined that something is going to be largely a waste of time, I have a really difficult time getting to it.


You see, even if I managed to correct course and meet more women, at the age of 36, with a set of routines and a certain lifestyle, I strongly believe that I'm not going to find much happiness through social interactions with women. You are right about escorts and being process driven - I only value the outcome. Do you think it is possible to change that? Because I think it is a very deep part of someone's personality, probably determined before birth.

Let me be really straightforward:
Since I don't place much value on social interactions, only on the end result (having sex), the question is, am I going to be more happy getting to the outcome directly (banging escorts) or going through all kinds of hoops to get into a relationship with someone I may not even be that into?

This is a key question. I don't know the answer.
The before birth personality thing is BS. It’s an excuse you are hiding behind. So let’s get that on the table straight away.

You ask is it worth it? It can be.

You compare yourself to other friends who you see settled in relationships to women you categorize as high quality. This suggests to me that observationally you see that what you yourself have never experienced IS possible. It DOES exist. So how come these guys have it, but you do not?

Touchy question to be sure. You have a growth curve to go through in this area. A growth curve with an outcome you cannot be assured of. Utterly annoying. But necessary.

Why not embrace it. The value lies in the journey, not the destination. Surely you have read The Odyssey?

This is why what I’m suggesting you do it. Chill out, let it ride & see what happens. You’re going to feel out of sorts since this is outside your usual competency (and thus you have avoided it to this point).

It doesn’t matter about 50% of other people blah blah blah. I assure that 100% of anyone else CANNOT live your life for you. Therefore nothing matters because nobody is you except you. Look. We all have our own special & unique crap we carry around and pull out and *think* about examining once in a while. That’s what this thread is. We are a safe anonymous group of who knows who on the internet right? We have no bearing on your life and so we are safe. Which is cool.

But to sort your actual life out you will have to do things in your real life that WILL make you uncomfortable. And help you sort this out.
 

HyenaPrince

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
579
Reaction score
815
The before birth personality thing is BS. It’s an excuse you are hiding behind. So let’s get that on the table straight away.
It's definitely not BS. Your genetics account for up to 50% of your personality. If your brain is wired in a certain way or shows a different thickness or volume, your personality will differ from that of another person. Nature and nurture are both important to our personality and intelligence development. It's definitely essential to raise and educate a human properly. But you can only get a person so far until their genetics start limiting them.
 

BeExcellent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
4,614
Reaction score
6,452
Age
55
It's definitely not BS. Your genetics account for up to 50% of your personality. If your brain is wired in a certain way or shows a different thickness or volume, your personality will differ from that of another person. Nature and nurture are both important to our personality and intelligence development. It's definitely essential to raise and educate a human properly. But you can only get a person so far until their genetics start limiting them.
Agree but OP is attributing his social ineptness too much to this. Unless he is full on Aspberger’s or some such. But if that were true he wouldn’t have the question he posed in the first place.

That’s why it’s an excuse.
 

HyenaPrince

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
579
Reaction score
815
Agree but OP is attributing his social ineptness too much to this. Unless he is full on Aspberger’s or some such. But if that were true he wouldn’t have the question he posed in the first place.

That’s why it’s an excuse.
Fair enough.
 

zekko

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
15,859
Reaction score
8,562
Extreme lifestyle, very much a lone wolf type of guy.
I think this explains your whole problem right here. You're a passionate, driven guy. A lot of PUA types will tell you be passionate, build your life, and women will come out of the woodwork. But life isn't that simple. You're following your own course, but there aren't many women on that course. The simple answer would be to build up your social life. The problem is that it doesn't sound like this is something you actually want, your heart wouldn't be in it. I can understand this, because I've lost a lot of motivation to be social as I've gotten older, I'm a natural introvert. When I was younger I pushed myself because I wanted to build my social skills, but now I really don't care. So you'd have to figure out if it would be worth it to you or not.

Having said that, I kind of like @CAPSLOCK BANDIT's idea about the travel partner, if you have the free time.
 

forcerecon01

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
844
Reaction score
475
Age
44
I'm 40 going on 41 next month. I'm in the same boat you are but I really don't care. I'm not high status by any means but I get a nice pension from the military,rent an apartment and have my own car. I don't have to work for anybody. As stormrider put it women aren't **** and thats the truth. I say travel abroad and see life outside of your bubble. You will find that there is nothing wrong at all with you , just your environment bs. Why date women most want sex right away even. Invite the woman to your house and escalate towards sex most women will fu*ck you right there. As I said I think you need to travel more go to France, Thailand, other places geared towards real romance.
 

fastlife

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,131
Reaction score
2,155
Then how do "netflix and chill" invitations happen?
When "netflix and chill" was still a thing in 2012/2013, it was a socially savvy euphemism and Tinder was a hookup app--so you have girls who are self-selected for being horny choosing guys based mostly off of looks and the whole experience was novel and trendy. But even then, it was a low-probability opener. You'd still need to vibe and joke for at least a few messages before tossing that out there. Now, it's more of a meme and I wouldn't use it unless I was trying to be ironic or over-the-top cheesy player.

Girls are down for hookups, but they need to be attracted to you first and not feel like you're just using them for sex. And if you're a 36 y/o guy trying to game girls in their 20s, even if they're attracted to you, you're going to need a little more rapport since you're probably not who she pictures when she closes her eyes when she goes to sleep at night and there's more risk of her being judged by her peers. You also have to be able to disqualify yourself as a provider--but that looks less like, "I just want to fvck you and never take you out" and more like "I don't know, I'm a free spirit and I just feel trapped in relationships and I don't want to promise anything I can't deliver." Same message but very different delivery. For reference see James Franco getting put on blast by some very basic looking chick for failing to nail the delivery lol.
 

samspade

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
7,996
Reaction score
5,054
You also have to be able to disqualify yourself as a provider--but that looks less like, "I just want to fvck you and never take you out" and more like "I don't know, I'm a free spirit and I just feel trapped in relationships and I don't want to promise anything I can't deliver."
Terrific paradigm shift. And for me, it's closer to the truth anyway.
 

allergictobs

Don Juan
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
110
Reaction score
150
Age
40
Location
Central Europe
The simple answer would be to build up your social life. The problem is that it doesn't sound like this is something you actually want, your heart wouldn't be in it.
Yes, this is very much the essence of the problem. I think I'm simply too focused on the outcome of social interactions, as BeExcellent brought up.

I've thought about this quite a bit since yesterday, and I realized that there are exceptions, situations where I do actually enjoy social interaction without any outcome in mind. This happens with certain people that I connect well on some deeper, instinctual level. I don't even need to know them very well, the connection can be there almost instantly. In those cases, I do enjoy just talking or spending time with them.

Having said that, I kind of like @CAPSLOCK BANDIT's idea about the travel partner, if you have the free time.
It is an interesting idea, and I may very well try it.
 

allergictobs

Don Juan
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
110
Reaction score
150
Age
40
Location
Central Europe
Many big city life people have this problem. It’s because people were meant to live in small to medium sized clusters where things are more personable. I guarantee you if the OP was in some SEA town, he’d have a large sphere of influence throughout that town and many women lining up to date him without him having to change his core personality of being a go getter.

Big cities are not conducive to dating. Online dating and night clubs are society’s failed attempt to create chemistry.

You need proximity, shared interests, and mutual attraction for that chemistry thing to cook itself up. This happens so easily in a person’s youth (high school, college) but it disappears after that.
This is an excellent point. For the same reason, workplaces have, until recently, been good places for men and women to meet (these days, of course, you risk losing your job if you approach the wrong person).

I'm definitely not a big city person, I'm just there because of work (as are most other people). I will most certainly move to a smaller community once I get enough of office life.
 

Mike32ct

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
7,994
Reaction score
4,494
Location
Eastern Time Zone where it's always really late
I've thought about this quite a bit since yesterday, and I realized that there are exceptions, situations where I do actually enjoy social interaction without any outcome in mind. This happens with certain people that I connect well on some deeper, instinctual level. I don't even need to know them very well, the connection can be there almost instantly. In those cases, I do enjoy just talking or spending time with them.
Exactly. You can still use some of the introvert's natural strengths. We like deeper conversations with people we "click" with. I also much prefer one-on-one conversations, which I think is also an introvert strength/preference.

Wit, sarcasm, puns, and callback humor (if you naturally have a good memory) are also good for brainy guys.
 

Kotaix

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
2,279
Reaction score
2,884
Age
46
I'm more or less in the same situation you are. I'm 5'7", balding (albeit very slowly, widow's peak) and 42.

I have never been much for chasing women or smashing poon, and I'm not a party animal. I also lost my interest in trying to date because most women are just not as fun. The only real difference between us that I can see is that my circle of friends is heavily skewed towards women and not men, this comes from my blue pilled, male feminist days. But those days are gone, and I went thru a red pill rage phase where I wasn't fit company for a woman.

I decided to live for myself at one point early in 2019. Hit the gym, have fun with friends and date casually as the options came, which were few. I've had far more lucky dating in my 40s than I ever did when I was younger.

I did recently find a woman who I have very much in common with, and we have an excellent relationship, but it pretty much came out of the blue. We had great chemistry as friends and a lot of common interests. The interesting side note is that she's a pretty staunch feminist. I generally hate feminism at this point, but for some reason, things just work between us because she's not some insane bigoted product of modern feminism.

The hard truths I see in you:

You are uncompromising: It is NOT possible to have a relationship with anyone if you aren't able to give up some measure of control and at least play along with a woman's likes and dislikes. It takes two to tango. Men and women cannot truly see eye to eye, you can either accept this or you can be alone. If she really likes you, she will make an effort to engage in the things that you like as well, but it's unrealistic and selfish to expect that a woman will bend completely your likes and let you do as you please. You have to pick and choose your battles. This isn't just true of women, it's true of life.

You have an agenda when it comes to women (and possibly all people): You are also expecting to get something out of a woman, some kind of fulfillment and/or social validation. You can't have this in a relationship and expect it to work. If you give of yourself and expect to get anything in return then you have the wrong mentality.

You might be egotistical: My outlook on life improved greatly when I started looking into Taoism, Stoicism and Buddhism as a way to understand how the universe works, and to stop being so self-centered. Don't expect to be able to share or explore these ideas with women.

And a suggestion: pick up dancing. it's a great way to get to know women intimately in a socially acceptable way.
 

samspade

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
7,996
Reaction score
5,054
Hi guys,

I've just recently discovered this site, but many of the concepts have been familiar to me for years, decades even. I'm not really about learning game, but I read the "book of Pook", and many of the concepts in that series of posts have been second nature to me for my whole life.

I thought I'd collect my thoughts and write about my situation to clear my mind a bit. Any comments are of course welcome.

Here's a short version of the long story that follows:
- 36 years old, life in good order
- Physically fit, at peak fitness
- High status profession, financially well of
- Extreme lifestyle, very much a lone wolf type of guy
- Always been red-pilled, never put any woman on a pedestal
- Girls actually chased me in my early 20s, I was too busy chasing my own dreams
- Now, over a decade later - achieved most of my goals, but no sex life, zero women in social circle
- Have stopped trying to date women, puzzled by today's dating scene - looking for solutions



Long story (I'll break this up into smaller parts):


Let me start with the good things

My life is, in many ways, better than what I had expected it could be when growing up. I come from a lower middle class family from a poor country in Europe. At 36, I'm healthy, in the best shape of my life. I go to gym 4-5x a week and have the same, if not better, physique that I had in my early 20s (I have more muscle mass now than back then, body fat is consistently 10-15%).

I've climbed the corporate ladder to reach a comfortable position with a lot of freedom and great coworkers. It's a high status profession and the pay is very good, too. The only thing I don't like about it is commuting, but what can you do.

On top of my day job, a couple of years ago I started a side business. It has recently started paying quite well, and with three sources of income (career job, side business, and investments), I'm doing quite well financially.

I've achieved many of the things I've set as goals. I played competitive sports when I was younger. I traveled the world in my early 20s. I got the "dream career" in the corporate world. I don't have many items on my checklist anymore. These days, I'm mainly interested in health, and growing my side business and seeing if it can really take off in the coming years.

I'm single, and have been for years. Never married, only had one long-term relationship in my life. I've always been the type of guy who did his own thing, did not follow others' advice. And I really mean that. I have had to fight against the herd quite a few times regarding life choices. I have had to leave behind old friends several times in life and find new ones who are more like-minded.



Lifestyle, personality, and problems

My lifestyle has always been quite extreme. I rarely stop to "have fun" in the sense that most people talk about having fun. I don't party, I don't drink, I don't relax the same way that most people do. This is VERY important, something that cannot be changed: To me, having fun is progressing, competing and challenging oneself. Yes, I did go to parties and had the typical college experience when I was young, but I never liked it much, I just wanted to experience it to understand what it's all about.

The same goes with relationships. I really, really dislike hanging out in a pointless way. I just cannot do it - there has to be a purpose, such as playing a sport, having a meaningful conversation, or learning something new. But any type of "hey you wanna come over, have a few beers and watch the game" I've almost always responded with "no thanks". I cannot change this part in myself, I have tried hard when I was younger.

My days are mainly comprised of these activities:
- Workdays at the office (about 9 hours including commuting)
- Workouts and recovering (0-2 hours per day)
- Developing/running side business (0-4 hours per day)
- Other sports (golf, skiing, tennis, etc.) (mainly on weekends/vacations)
- Reading/learning new things (2-4 hours per day)
- Sleeping (8 hours per day)

I like all this about my life. I have plenty of stuff to do. I'm never bored. I've never really been bored.

But here's what I'm missing big time: sex, intimacy, even a relationship. No, I'm not looking for love or companionship (I don't mind those things, but I'm not actively seeking them), but a regular sex life.

My personality seems to require a traditional type of woman - one who is after a guy like myself. I have experienced it once, in my early 20s. I met a girl who was very feminine. She admired my dedication and just wanted to be in my boat. I was the captain, she was the passenger. She did not require any "entertainment" like going out or spending time doing pointless stuff. I just ****ed her silly, and the rest of the time I carried on with my own stuff. We had the funny conversations and stuff that couples do, even traveled together, but it was all on my terms. Maybe she secretly wanted something more, but she seemed very content with what she got. Eventually after a few years, I got too focused on my own things and broke up with her.

I need a relationship to be of the type where she is very feminine and submissive. I simply would not enter any other type of relationship. Sometimes I wonder if the ideal "relationship" for me would be with a hooker or an escort, since I'm mainly after sex. But I am interested in some kind of stability, so I want to be exclusive with just one person. I just need to be the dominant person in the relationship.

I'm quite rebellious by nature, and have a hard time playing a certain role or doing favors for other people. I'm very straightforward with everything and don't really care about other people's feelings. Basically, I'm the guy in the room who calls bull**** first. As for dating, I'm not able to jump through hoops to date a woman. I absolutely hate trying to impress other people, including women, because that puts you in an inferior position, like you need to prove something. In my view, she either likes you the way you are, and if not, it's her loss (blunt, I know).

My social circle consists of only men, most of whom have a somewhat similar personality to mine. Almost all of them are married with kids though, so I'm an odd person in that sense. I have zero female friends and acquaintances outside work. I've never had any female friends, in fact, no woman has ever wanted to be my friend and vice versa (I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing).

So as you can understand from the above, my situation is probably not very typical. I realize I'm a pretty extreme person, and I've tried changing and playing along when I was younger, but by this age, my personality is very much what it is.
OP, I admire your attitude. You're true to yourself, something I always preach around here but that's not always easy in practice. It sounds like your mindset is strong.

I'm going to echo what others have said here, which is that in order to meet women you'll have to put yourself in environments where they hang out. It doesn't have to be a bar, although even if it is you can still go and drink a Coke.

Since you have such a structured lifestyle, I think the best way for you to approach this is simply as another project, like your side business or your workouts. You can devote between zero and X amount of hours on cultivating your social circle to include more women. Adjust your schedule and just add it to your "to do" list. That way it won't seem like a pointless activity but something you're actively working on.

The good news is that with your mindset, if you simply place yourself in settings with more females, you'll probably do very well. Most women will be intrigued not only by your success but by your personal code and that you're not eager to bend your rules just for pu$$y. There will be no need for you to "try to impress" her because she'll be impressed just getting to know you. And as long as you're upfront about your desires (without being blunt or making her feel slvtty) you won't have to commit to anything long term.
 

redskinsfan92

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
1,870
Reaction score
1,486
Age
31
1. You're boring.

2. The market sucks, most guys are doing worse now(pre Covid) than they did pre 2015 regardless of improvement.

3. I recommend traveling and meeting people that way.
How is he boring?
 

redskinsfan92

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
1,870
Reaction score
1,486
Age
31
Sh1t, I was starting to think it was just me.
 

redskinsfan92

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
1,870
Reaction score
1,486
Age
31
My honest thought is this. Why not just f some escort. Cheaper in the end.

Rethought this: You want sex with genuine desire. Not transactional sex. Understandable.
 
Last edited:
Top