I think that I just royally f'ed up

[Igetit!]

Cool girl, attractive, smart, ambitious, life in order, has standards, lots in common. She got out of a few year long relationship a few months ago and I met her soon after it ended.

Ok,I have a question here....

You said you met her right after her relationship ended. Ok....what happened right then? Like,when you met her,what did you do....you ask her out,not say anything about dating,act like a friend,or treat her like an occasional aquaintance?

We have had some tension going for a while and I have held back since I didn't want to be the rebound guy and have been dating others. When out, I would constantly catch her looking my way and we would inevitably end up hanging out together. She is always in my space and no I don't act like her gay friend. I don't kiss her ass and tease the crap out of her. She never talks about other men or her ex to me, though she does to others.

Honestly,this is ALL BAD. This type of interacting can land you in the friendzone.

You can't "just be" around a girl. It's like driving a car......you can't just take your hands off the wheel and hope you end up where you want to go,you have to PURPOSELY steer the car in the direction you want it to go. Same thing with a girl...you can't just "hang out" around her and hope you end up dating or in some type of romantic interaction,YOU have to direct things there......PURPOSELY.

You say she never talks about her ex or other men to you. Well that's all fine and dandy,but........

what do YOU talk about? You talk about THE TWO OF YOU possibly going out or spending time together? You complient her? You ask her to bend down so you can get a better look at her cleavage? I'm SERIOUS.

What have you done to display YOUR sexual interest to her? This ain't the movies,man. This ain't one of those movies where a man and a woman hang out for months and months,into years,while the chick goes through bad relationship after bad relationship,only to one day wake up and go,"YOU........you're the one I want. This WHOLE TIME I've been running around searching for love in all these other men,while you've been here all along. Hee,hee......I'm so happy. "

That's Hollywood. You try that in real life,you get friendzoned.

A few weeks ago, I showed up at the pub and she was with a date. I just said hello and went about my business and peripherally could tell that she was keeping her eye on me. The feeling in the pit of my stomach made me realize that I REALLY like her. This girl is the first in a long time that I just simply like and although I would love to get in her pants, its not my main focus for a change.

So she's going out on dates,while you walk around with a pit in your stomach from seeing her out with other dudes.

Dude....you got to make a move. Other dudes are taking her out,while you walk around feeling sick.

I can tell you right now.......ANY PLAN you do where you continue to hang around and be in this girl's presense,while NOT asking her out will DOOM YOU to failure. You'd be better off just leaving her alone until you work up the courage to say something.

So, she comes out, sits down, we start talking and the subject turns to me apparently acting cold towards her. As much as I tried to tease her and play it off as being her imagination, she wouldn't let it go

I think I can say with a fair amount of confidence that it's over. You two ALREADY have a relationship,it's just platonic.

I don't remember exactly what she said, but in response and probably due to my buzzed condition, I blurted out: "because I like you too much". I have never in my life wished more to be able to suck words right back in. After a pause, she replied, "I like you too" and paused as if thinking of what to say next.

I don't think you telling her you liked her hurt your chances.....I think your chances were blown a LONG TIME ago.....long before that came out of your mouth.

I really don't know how to proceed from here. I know that those few words may have destroyed any tension that was there and left me wondering if a "but" was coming after the "I like you too".

Honestly....I think she was shocked when you said that,and I think she only said it back out of POLITENESS.

I mean hey...you can ask her out and all,but don't be shocked if you get the friends speech.


You telling her you liked her didn't ruin your chances with her......your lack of assertiveness while continuing to hang out with her did.

 

[Medina]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind


If you look at what I suggested in my message it’s not a formal gee can I take you to dinner suggestion. It’s hey I’m gonna kick it over here. Join me.

Those are very different energies. Indecision and aloof behavior can easily come off as low interest, no initiative and wishy washy. Not attractive.

This girl in fact has ALREADY launched that complaint rather candidly. Because of that OP told her he likes her. Ok cool. He didn’t turn into a lap dog in that moment but he shouldn’t just go back to the ultra Joe Cool behavior either. It’s tiring, and while it may build attraction at first...it’s annoying over time.

Example. Last weekend I met a cool guy. Tall dark & handsome, nice muscular body, full hair, well dressed. He had stared at me all night, his friend was obviously talking with him about me, lots of non verbal cues. I even walked over nearby and bought myself a drink to increase proximity...and nearly sasheyed off before the friend grabbed me. Good conversation ensued until my friends (who were ready to bounce and I was driving), dragged me off. He fished around a bit awkwardly in his billfold and gave me a business card. My cell is on there...he said. My friends were jonesing to go & I didn’t have my phone & he wasn’t smooth enough in that moment to whip out his phone for my number.

So I sent him a text the next day to say nice to meet you. He pinged back immediately but let the conversation drop. He’s an IT guy, reserved, bit of an introvert, but quite attractive. Also kind of awkward. Sunday I ran into his buddy who said hey what’s up with dude, and I said I don’t know, not all that communicative...a little while later he pings me to come for a drink somewhere else. I say OK. I show up, buddy is there as well as a female pal, and while it was nice to hang out with them and they were cool, I didn’t have opportunity to get to know him very much. He walked me to my car, gave me a light kiss & we both left. Sporadic texts a bit this past week, but if he expects me to chase after him and do the leader’s job of initiating, then he’s either 1. Not that into me, 2. Seeing someone else already (refer also to 1.), or 3.) is socially awkward.

Had the guy stayed he liked me or been more assertive in the interactions, I’d still have high interest. As it stands now Im more “Meh”. He’s still attractive but I need more to work with.

Contrast that to a less physically attractive but extremely socially attuned man who pinged me earlier tonight, was engaging and asked me out for a night next week straightaway. Very interesting, intelligent and funny guy, brilliant intellect, less physically attractive than I generally entertain but elegant and classy and adroit. Complete self confidence, which has a certain swagger I appreciate.

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

This argument really comes down to "action"

Action = testosterone
Emotions/bonding = oxytocin

Aloof can work when a guy is busy. Again (action) getting things done in the world

Too much communication (texting etc) indicates oxytocin and low action in day to day life

That guy not having the balls to make the proper moves on you is also low action

OP showed he had a ton of oxytocin for that girl and very little T for her. When it should be the other way around

 

[Spaz]

Sorry guys, this is one of the rare occasions that I agree with @BeExcellent, well not all but most.

If any of you have had multiple relationships with women, you'd sometimes been in a similar situation as OP, you know she's bad news or whatever but the pull is there regardless of how you think and it can be irritating.

Sometimes I just chalked it up to some stupid biological reaction that pushes my DNA to want to spread my seed through certain women, there's no controlling it at times but it needs to be kept at bay, for that OP has displayed some good frame.

From his original post, she seems to be into him too.

Didn't she chase him outside whilst she was on a date with another dude?

So the onus is on OP if he desires to pursue it further, but he shouldn't take too long, maybe a couple of days to keep his one-itis suffering in her frustrations...

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind


If you look at what I suggested in my message it’s not a formal gee can I take you to dinner suggestion. It’s hey I’m gonna kick it over here. Join me.

Those are very different energies. Indecision and aloof behavior can easily come off as low interest, no initiative and wishy washy. Not attractive.

This girl in fact has ALREADY launched that complaint rather candidly. Because of that OP told her he likes her. Ok cool. He didn’t turn into a lap dog in that moment but he shouldn’t just go back to the ultra Joe Cool behavior either. It’s tiring, and while it may build attraction at first...it’s annoying over time.

Example. Last weekend I met a cool guy. Tall dark & handsome, nice muscular body, full hair, well dressed. He had stared at me all night, his friend was obviously talking with him about me, lots of non verbal cues. I even walked over nearby and bought myself a drink to increase proximity...and nearly sasheyed off before the friend grabbed me. Good conversation ensued until my friends (who were ready to bounce and I was driving), dragged me off. He fished around a bit awkwardly in his billfold and gave me a business card. My cell is on there...he said. My friends were jonesing to go & I didn’t have my phone & he wasn’t smooth enough in that moment to whip out his phone for my number.

So I sent him a text the next day to say nice to meet you. He pinged back immediately but let the conversation drop. He’s an IT guy, reserved, bit of an introvert, but quite attractive. Also kind of awkward. Sunday I ran into his buddy who said hey what’s up with dude, and I said I don’t know, not all that communicative...a little while later he pings me to come for a drink somewhere else. I say OK. I show up, buddy is there as well as a female pal, and while it was nice to hang out with them and they were cool, I didn’t have opportunity to get to know him very much. He walked me to my car, gave me a light kiss & we both left. Sporadic texts a bit this past week, but if he expects me to chase after him and do the leader’s job of initiating, then he’s either 1. Not that into me, 2. Seeing someone else already (refer also to 1.), or 3.) is socially awkward.

Had the guy stayed he liked me or been more assertive in the interactions, I’d still have high interest. As it stands now Im more “Meh”. He’s still attractive but I need more to work with.

Contrast that to a less physically attractive but extremely socially attuned man who pinged me earlier tonight, was engaging and asked me out for a night next week straightaway. Very interesting, intelligent and funny guy, brilliant intellect, less physically attractive than I generally entertain but elegant and classy and adroit. Complete self confidence, which has a certain swagger I appreciate.

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

Thought you had a boyfriend, you spinning plates BE?

-Augustus-

 

[user43770]

This argument really comes down to "action"

Action = testosterone
Emotions/bonding = oxytocin

Aloof can work when a guy is busy. Again (action) getting things done in the world

Too much communication (texting etc) indicates oxytocin and low action in day to day life

That guy not having the balls to make the proper moves on you is also low action

OP showed he had a ton of oxytocin for that girl and very little T for her. When it should be the other way around

Really? Fvck me. Should have showed more oxytocin.

Some of y'all have to be joking.

 

[user43770]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind

Again, an aloof mindset stems from not caring about the outcome, not fear. A man that was fearful would be all over her and in a rush. He would think that his window was closing. "Hey, can I take you out some time?" That's coming from a fearful place. By standing back and letting her play her cards, he's being a mere tactician.

If you look at what I suggested in my message it’s not a formal gee can I take you to dinner suggestion. It’s hey I’m gonna kick it over here. Join me.

Those are very different energies. Indecision and aloof behavior can easily come off as low interest, no initiative and wishy washy. Not attractive.

That's why I said to gauge her interest and go from there. Not to outright ask her on a date, which you suggested.

This girl in fact has ALREADY launched that complaint rather candidly. Because of that OP told her he likes her. Ok cool. He didn’t turn into a lap dog in that moment but he shouldn’t just go back to the ultra Joe Cool behavior either. It’s tiring, and while it may build attraction at first...it’s annoying over time.

It may be tiring for older women that have a bunch of baggage, but younger women seem to thrive off it. I bet you did, too, in your younger days.

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

Responses in bold.

Fortune favors the bold, sure. Unless bold = wearing your heart on your sleeve with women.

I'm sure that most posters on sosuave have stories about the times we were fully open and honest with women. Doesn't end well.

You told the OP to "be a man," which I find amusing. As if you have a better idea of what a man is than any of us do.

 

[user43770]

I'm sure there will be theorists lining up to say that if your frame is tight enough, you can act however you want around women.

No woman admires an emotional man that wears his heart on his sleeve, because it's a feminine trait.

 

[Medina]

No woman admires an emotional man that wears his heart on his sleeve, because it's a feminine trait.

Yeah its called the oxytocin hormone, its responsible for love, trust and bonding

You moron

 

[user43770]

Yeah its called the oxytocin hormone, its responsible for love, trust and bonding

You moron

Well, I'm not a moron, Medina. By the way, I generally like your posts. You have a sense of humor similar to mine. Didn't mean to offend you.

I've read about oxytocin in the past, but only in relation to jacking off. I.e. the drug is released into your brain every time you look at porn. I'd never thought much about it, beyond that.

Having said that, I highly doubt that anyone should blame their social faux pas' on such a flimsy construct. As if our every action were predisposed by a minor hormone release.

Do you really think that a minor hormone release has ultimate control over all of our actions?

 

[samspade]

The super aloof approach comes off as low interest or fear or lack of initiative. None of those things are positive in the mind

Fortune favors the bold. Be bold. Be a man. Go after what you want and don’t apologize for that. Don’t be a puppy either. Find the middle path.

I didn't say be aloof or don't be bold. I recommended he steer clear of actions that will compound his Oneitis, which is what he has as far as I can see.

If he doesn't have oneitis or has the mindset to surpass it without issue, then yeah he can shake off the mistake and ask her out. But that's not the impression I got from his post and he probably wouldn't have written it if she were just another chick. The tried and true method is to pull back and talk to other women. Not saying he has to act "aloof" around her when he sees her. But the time to "be a man" as you put it was after she responded in kind and he didn't kiss her, so giving chase again right away is not a sound move IMO.

To me this is about conquering an inner demon first before conquering the lass.

Any man can get oneitis...and contrary to opinion I think it can be fun to have up to a point. Having a wild crush is normal. But once it starts affecting execution (because "she's different") things can avalanche quickly.

 

[lamath]

Sorry guys, this is one of the rare occasions that I agree with @BeExcellent, well not all but most.

If any of you have had multiple relationships with women, you'd sometimes been in a similar situation as OP, you know she's bad news or whatever but the pull is there regardless of how you think and it can be irritating.

Sometimes I just chalked it up to some stupid biological reaction that pushes my DNA to want to spread my seed through certain women, there's no controlling it at times but it needs to be kept at bay, for that OP has displayed some good frame.

From his original post, she seems to be into him too.

Didn't she chase him outside whilst she was on a date with another dude?

So the onus is on OP if he desires to pursue it further, but he shouldn't take too long, maybe a couple of days to keep his one-itis suffering in her frustrations...

Same here, it would usualy be a bad move but need to calibrate to interest level that is clearly high

 

[Epic Days]

Do you really think that a minor hormone release has ultimate control over all of our actions?

It would depend upon how addicted you are. One can’t escape the fact that a woman’s “feels” for you will dwindle after the honeymoon. Yes she will eventually desire the “high” again.
Socially the onus is on the man to create it in her. Just look at the comments socially constructed for that when she bounces to the next guy.
“You should have kept her interested.”
“Should have been a better husband/boyfriend.”
“Should of listened to her when she tried to tell you.”

The justifications are endless. The fact is, she is wanting the high and the “feel goods”.
So yes, those hormones can, not always, cause an individual to actions.

Your perceived value can delay or eliminate her desire to jump ship. But to think that her “feels” are the same, you are mistaken.
Many a “happily married” wife has jumped the beach guy just to get some feels. She never had any intention of jumping from her husband. And yes, to her, she’s still happily married and it didn’t mean a thing.

 

[Medina]

Well, I'm not a moron, Medina. By the way, I generally like your posts. You have a sense of humor similar to mine. Didn't mean to offend you.

I've read about oxytocin in the past, but only in relation to jacking off. I.e. the drug is released into your brain every time you look at porn. I'd never thought much about it, beyond that.

Having said that, I highly doubt that anyone should blame their social faux pas' on such a flimsy construct. As if our every action were predisposed by a minor hormone release.

Do you really think that a minor hormone release has ultimate control over all of our actions?

I was in forum war mode mate

But studies certainly suggest so. Hormones affect our behaviour big league. Both positive and negative. Oxytocin makes males good fathers for example

Testosterone is the opposite, rage and lift, gives us an ability to hunt and kill without feeling empathy

Youre right its probably more complicated but its certainly valid

 

[AJ84]

Being too aloof isn't rooted in fear, it's rooted in not giving a fvck. Which is why women like it.

Bet we already know the OP being too aloof is rooted in fear because he already let that cat of the bag when she asked him why he was being aloof. Can’t put that back in the bag, it’s out there.

He should have kissed her that night and moved this forward. Going back to aloof may just confuse her, annoy her, and drop her interest level. As soon as she sees he is dating other women (and unless he keeps that separate she will find out as they seem to run in the same group) she may step it up or drop it altogether. It’s honestly a 50/50 response based on how much courage she has. Sometimes that actually does work and sometimes it doesn’t so if he’s going to spin plates to reduce onitis but still wants to date her I highly suggest he spin plates in another town far away from the his social group.

In an ideal world she should have asked him out that night or shortly thereafter but most girls don’t ask men out do they? She is clearly interested if his aloof behaviour bothered her to the point where she confronted him about it, and isn’t that one of the games done to rope women in? She was roped and yeah he messed up with what he said but not royally and she responded positively anyway. She may be waiting for him to make a move. If he is that interested he should do what BE suggested.

You can’t just stare at the playbook, you have to also observe what’s happening on the field to determine your next move.

 

[Epic Days]

Either a man wants her or he doesn’t. Sometimes even a lesser woman in the looks department (HB6) can elicit a biological response from me.

That doesn’t mean I am going to jump her. Because I most likely won’t.

OP, just decide if you want her and if you do, lead her to sex. Keep in mind that I only operate in having a great connection. It’s never going past the physical. But it could contain some excursions and road trips to the mountains or whatever.

So what I was trying to do was decipher what you were really after. You seem to be waffling on something.
Look, if your head is full of all that “dangerous women” information, it will eliminate you from fun and exciting experiences and turn you into an idiot.

I think you did just fine. But you’re in limbo and conflicted. That’s my take.

 

[user43770]

Bet we already know the OP being too aloof is rooted in fear because he already let that cat of the bag when she asked him why he was being aloof. Can’t put that back in the bag, it’s out there.

He should have kissed her that night and moved this forward. Going back to aloof may just confuse her, annoy her, and drop her interest level. As soon as she sees he is dating other women (and unless he keeps that separate she will find out as they seem to run in the same group) she may step it up or drop it altogether. It’s honestly a 50/50 response based on how much courage she has. Sometimes that actually does work and sometimes it doesn’t so if he’s going to spin plates to reduce onitis but still wants to date her I highly suggest he spin plates in another town far away from the his social group.

In an ideal world she should have asked him out that night or shortly thereafter but most girls don’t ask men out do they? She is clearly interested if his aloof behaviour bothered her to the point where she confronted him about it, and isn’t that one of the games done to rope women in? She was roped and yeah he messed up with what he said but not royally and she responded positively anyway. She may be waiting for him to make a move. If he is that interested he should do what BE suggested.

You can’t just stare at the playbook, you have to also observe what’s happening on the field to determine your next move.

God, I hate going into so much speculation over somebody else's affairs lol

He said she gave an awkward pause after what he said. Regardless, pretending like nothing happened has more to gain than any other action. In my opinion.

 

[user43770]

Like I said previously, gauge her new mannerisms towards you. If they're good, move in for the close. If they're bad, keep your distance

 

[user43770]

Which is all that ultimately matters.

Keyboard warriors, the lot of us

 

[user43770]

I was in forum war mode mate

But studies certainly suggest so. Hormones affect our behaviour big league. Both positive and negative. Oxytocin makes males good fathers for example

Testosterone is the opposite, rage and lift, gives us an ability to hunt and kill without feeling empathy

Youre right its probably more complicated but its certainly valid

Thanks for the level head, brother. I came at you with a smug tone. I would have responded the same way you did. I'm usually a nice guy, as long as you're not spaz lol

I created a thread related to what you're talking about here. I'm very interested in biological reactions.

 

[AJ84]

God, I hate going into so much speculation over somebody else's affairs lol

He said she gave an awkward pause after what he said. Regardless, pretending like nothing happened has more to gain than any other action. In my opinion.

But this is what confuses me and probably other females. He drunkenly disclosed that the aloofness was basically based on some fear, which can be seen a weakness, If he continues acting the same way, she may continue to see that as a weakness. That’s a risk.

Look it’s crappy that men have to step up like this and honestly you all end up having to step outside of your comfort zones much more than we do and no it’s not fair, but it is what it is and has been for a very long time. Women often need a million green lights before making a move because we like to know 100% that the guy is into us. We don’t handle rejection as well as men, you all know that. Maybe his drunken blurt wasn’t enough for her to make a move because he was drunk talking and it came out of nowhere. Maybe she didn’t know how to react, then it started raining then she had to leave with her friend who was her ride.

If it didn’t rain, if she didn’t have to leave with her friend..... who knows. But it got cut short and he opened the door so maybe she’s waiting and is not sure and the more time that passes with him being aloof, the less sure she will be and the less likely she will make a move, that’s how we are usually. We have no balls lol.

It would be different if he hadn’t blurted that out, but he did. IMO that moment of weakness needs to be replaced with some balls, otherwise he is establishing in her mind that he’s too chicken to make a move and/ or that he is not that interested and it was just the booze talking.