At a fork in the road of life. ( LTR Advice Needed )

[ubercat]

Like most guys here I ve had the marriage and ultimatum from a few g/f s. The ones that r close really hurt. It sux but close isn't enough. And especially don't move in. She ll own the terrain and eventually own your balls. Be very careful you re close to constructing the American nightmare aka your own private hell.

 

[Spinach]

Uber I need to hear and realize that.... Thanks.

 

[jgoodz]

@jgoodz and @Spinach

I have come to realize, for myself, that when I am really lined up with something I feel a sense of YES that is clear and comes from within.

In the past, I struggled like the OP with a major relationship choice. I felt so confused as I loved the person immensely. Everything seemed right from the outside and to everyone that knew us. I was hesitant and did not know why. I could not find a yes or no within myself. I remained on the fence looking and looking for clear confirmation either way, for a long time. I looked and evaluated and tried to find a solid yes or no. I could not find one. This frustrated me. I did not like living in limbo or not being able to explain it to myself or others.

I felt like I could make up a story to go either way. I didn't want to just make up a story to justify a life altering direction. I wanted to know the choice I was making was truly lined up for me. I wanted to feel some certainty. I know this will sound silly to many. What I realized, that made all the difference, for me, to understand when pondering a BIG decision, that my personal (Soul) operating system operates on on YES's or mostly silence (not NO's)

My confusion came because I couldn't find a YES and I couldn't find a no inside myself. There was no, NO to be found because my system leads by YESes. There was no, YES because the choice was not a true/highest level YES, for me. I had my answer. I felt immense relief once I realized this as I knew my answer and it was crystal clear.

I could look at other turning points in my life and see where I knew and had a clear YES inside myself, on many, many occasions. For me, I could see the pattern where my inner guidance moved me through the world with Yes's lighting the way. I could veer away, this way or that way if I chose. When I was truly plugged in, on my path, my whole Being knew YES. Sometimes it wasn't something my personality wanted to be a yes. In my heart I knew it was the right action to take and once I did it always became clear to me why.

This will likely sound like absolute gibberish to most, and I accept that. For those who have an operating system like I do, and actually can relate to my explanation, there can be immense freedom it.

TL;DR
I have come to know clearly, that for me, especially when making a big decision, that "a lack of response" or "lack of a clear YES," inside of me, is just that, "NOT YES." (or at least "NOT YES"--at this time)

"This frustrated me. I did not like living in limbo or not being able to explain it to myself or others."

I can totally relate to this. I have a maybe yes.... it's just not crystal clear for me.
I'm very much in limbo and can go either way....

Powerful and insightful.... thank you

 

[Yewki]

UPDATE: She packed up all my stuff to be picked up. I go over and just start crying. We start crying.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but this right here is your smoking gun. The reason you cried is because your frame is weak and you over invested in a girl. I realize the situation is hard, but there you have it... you let a girl become the center of your world. You put yourself in check

I told her last summer that we should move in. I would sell my place and move in with her.
Things happened in the listing and I ended up taking it off the market. She kept asking if I was relisting it, but I went through a lot of stress with it and simply don't feel like going through with it again right now.

Have you considered renting out your house instead of selling it? That way if things don't work out with her you can get out pretty easily

 

[jgoodz]

I am a little confused. You feel ready to have kids now? You don't have an issue with that?
You are good with getting married? To her???

Kids right now...no, but in the very near future yes. She doesn't.... she's was very whatever on the subject.
No... I'm not really good in getting married... with her... just right now.

Is it the actual moving in part that has you uncomfortable, or the timing of the moving in (losing your single life for good) but you are good with all the rest of it???

Excellent question here! Hmm... At first when I brought it up... I thought it'd be nice to live with her ( considering I was always living on my own ) So as I listed my place and came very close in signing the papers to close on my place... I backed out... I was extremely emotional and I remember back thinking... I was losing my home... then I thought I was losing my bachelor pad... my sanctuary, where I had all my friends over. I backed out. Saying I would relist for higher because I wasn't comfortable with the price to begin with.

Side note for future consideration should you move forward together: This is a way out there consideration, so not ss. If you do decide to stay with her, maybe consider or look into having some of her eggs harvested soon, and set aside for future use. I am not sure if that would make a big difference in their viability for kid number 2 or 3 perhaps. Maybe you'd never use them but it could be a back up option. I don't know anything about any of that, it's a random thought that popped up that you might want to consider.

Moving on, the issue of knowingly having a Down's Syndrome child is not insignificant. I wouldn't wish that choice on anyone. That's a really important consideration when choosing to get pregnant. If her eggs were harvested maybe they test for that possibility up front. I have no idea if it works that way or not. Fertility assistance is super expensive in my understanding.

Something I would definitely consider, also something that never crossed my mind... That stuff really does turn me off though.

Seeing eye to eye and feeing spiritually connected is not insignificant. Forcing yourself doesn't make it right either.

So very true... again though... I feel like I've been the one pressuring and forcing myself to accept the terms that, we need to move in, get married and have kids SOON! ... she's on paper perfect for me... even my best friends wife said just yesterday that, I will never find anyone else like her... that is so compatible with me :/

 

[jgoodz]

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but this right here is your smoking gun. The reason you cried is because your frame is weak and you over invested in a girl. I realize the situation is hard, but there you have it... you let a girl become the center of your world. You put yourself in check

We were going out for a year and a half... It was a serious LTR. I was considering marrying her and her being the mother to my children... wouldn't you cry too? She wasn't the CENTER of my world... but she was a huge part of it for the time

Have you considered renting out your house instead of selling it? That way if things don't work out with her you can get out pretty easily

I actually did think of that. But it's a co-op and they have certain rules about it. Plus I would only probably break even every months. Seemed like more of hassle to do that.

 

[jgoodz]

Are you saying that she is NOT, on her own, super interested in and desiring to have kids/ a family? If that is true, imho, she is not a good match, to commit to, and to in anyway count on having kids and a family with.

Well she ONCE questioned of even having kids... I'm assuming because she was single. Then when I said I would like to have two she said she would enjoy two kids as well. Regardless as of right now... from the all information I've been gathering on here. I feel as though she may have been a good match... but not the one to continue to pursue for a family.

 

[ZTIME]

OP, I read your post. I didn't read all the others so this may be redundant.

You did state that last summer you brought up the idea of the two of you living together. If this is true, some of the issues that have arisen can be directly attributed to that singular action.

It's very similar to who says "I love you" first in a relationship.

I've come to notice that in an LTR that a women who dates a man with a strong frame is willing to let him lead and also willing to wait for him to change the dynamic of the relationship (moving in, marrige, I love you, kids etc.), and this is exactly what you did.

By telling her you wanted to move in she believed that you were more emotionally invested (keep in mind that a woman's number one currency is emotion). By taking it away, she now believes that her value in your eye has dropped.

So what does she do?? She panicked. She knows she's a bit older and has spent the last year and a half with you (her time investment which was going to see an R.O.I. with your emotional investment) and now feels devalued.

This whole process makes you feel pressured because she feels she needs validation that you still are emotionally invested.(women never want to go backward in relationships).

Truth be told: once you said you were moving in, she probably told friends and family how excited she was that the relationship was progressing. (A women's second currency, social validation). You pulled back and the the opinions started flying.

I'm posting this to give you perspective from the other side of the issue. It may come in handy some day.

 

[MrWood]

as a man who had a vasectomy, women still want YOU to say YES to having a child with THEM
even that they know there is a physical impossibility

I have heard more than one LTR woman tell me this (ask or talk about the subject)
last LTR started to go downhill, imho, when we "mutually" balked on getting a marriage license, but was later told it was a surprise to her that we didnt do it and was really disappointing in her mind.

no logic

 

[Rainman4707]

First off, I've been coming to this site since I was about 21 years of age... I am now 33 and been with my girlfriend for over a year and a half now. She's 2 and half years older then me (35 now) and she's very smart, mature, fun, down for whatever most of the time and we have the same views in almost every aspect in life. Very compatible. BUT lately we've been having problems... well I've been having internal issues with myself. Mainly to committing. I told her last summer that we should move in. I would sell my place and move in with her.
Things happened in the listing and I ended up taking it off the market. She kept asking if I was relisting it, but I went through a lot of stress with it and simply don't feel like going through with it again right now. So she said fine take your time ( very understanding ). But she still wants to know if I see a future with her. Basically she doesn't want me to string her along. And now I feel pressure to make a life long decision because in my mind... moving in just leads into marriage and kids.
So I'm sort of getting cold feet. She's a great girl, kind heart and all that. It's just her biological clock has been making ME tick! I feel that if I do wants kids I NEED TO MAKE MOVES like now. So the pressure has been on me. We decided to take a break ... 2 weeks for that matter. When we spoke we ended it great! She was so understanding and said take your time do what you want with your place it's fine we'll work it all out... and I was at ease and I could breathe again!
She said take another weekend to yourself and think about us and if you truly see a future with us. I did and when we spoke again she was furious that I was unsure about that. I understand why though.... she feels like I've been stringing her along ... a lot of talk but no action. She is now NOT talking to me and I feel like complete ****. I don't know if I should continue to be with her... or cut the losses and go back to the single life.
I'm just not 100% sure which road I should drive down... which road will be a smoother ride... which one will lead to sunshine? I need guidance... I need advice. Please help me out in this life altering decision. I'm torn.

You knew her for six month, then you were going to sell your house & move in with her. Is'nt that a little quick?

 

[Rainman4707]

During courtship, younger partners who do not really want kids or are on the fence about it, may not be so upfront or they may morph their preference to match the person they love and want a commitment from. Once finally committed and it's time to actually have kids, their hesitation or complete unwillingness to have a child can surface. It leaves the other heartbroken as their own desire for kids and a family is now held hostage by the one they love. Most are strung along till the option is no longer viable or some who are upfront often ask the partner to choose between no kids and staying together or not. That was the reason I suggested it's best to be clear that she, on her own, even without you, really wants to have kids.

I am glad you are finding clarity and relaxing more into what is true for you. Stay true to it, no matter what!!!

Part 2 to my earlier sharing is... I had clarity. I lost it or let it be muddled. In doing so, I eventually married him. That feeling that I did not understand of why to pass on marrying him, eventually became crystal clear to me years later and thus then necessitated a divorce. The clarity of it all in retrospect is even greater. The guidance inside to skip it all was made clear to me, more than once. I did not follow it. Thus my encouragement to not be swayed by the outside. Be clear on what a true "Yes" is, inside you. Anything that is "not a Yes" is exactly that, "not a Yes." Pay attention. Be true to yourself, always!

I had a similar feeling earlier this year. My GF was a great match for me, but she was down a lot, so I was thinking about ending the relationship.

One piece of advice given on here "if you have to think about whether she's right for you, then she's not"

Think of that what you will.

 

[Rainman4707]

100% THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^

Hmm i'm not sure.

That quote makes it as though relationships are 100% a walk in the park.

I reckon a lot of people have had doubts about their partner, stick with them & go on to have great future

 

[Prime_Beef]

When Prime_Beef was dating Mrs. Beef, after a couple, few months, Mr. Beef disappeared for a couple weeks. .. Frantically, Mrs Beef reached me by phone and I simply told her I was busy, call you in a few. Mr Beef had to take a quick time out.. coz. I knew.. I either quit this woman now and get back to my hedonistic (but empty) ways or commit, knowing without a doubt this was headed to marriage, and she was probably "the one" or one of "the ones" I'd encounter in life. Mrs. Beef came very real with her pursuit, was cute, educated, never lied, sh*t tested, had integrity, industriousness, and was very good with kids. In short, her game was tight and I knew it. There's a lot to what Liveyourdream says. If it's there and you feel it but have cold feet, picture yourself and how you imagine living with a woman 5, 10 yrs in the future . Does she fit the bill? Take the sex, sexiness out of the equation .. If you don't feel it move on

 

[jgoodz]

OP, I read your post. I didn't read all the others so this may be redundant.

You did state that last summer you brought up the idea of the two of you living together. If this is true, some of the issues that have arisen can be directly attributed to that singular action.

It's very similar to who says "I love you" first in a relationship.

I've come to notice that in an LTR that a women who dates a man with a strong frame is willing to let him lead and also willing to wait for him to change the dynamic of the relationship (moving in, marrige, I love you, kids etc.), and this is exactly what you did.

By telling her you wanted to move in she believed that you were more emotionally invested (keep in mind that a woman's number one currency is emotion). By taking it away, she now believes that her value in your eye has dropped.

So what does she do?? She panicked. She knows she's a bit older and has spent the last year and a half with you (her time investment which was going to see an R.O.I. with your emotional investment) and now feels devalued.

This whole process makes you feel pressured because she feels she needs validation that you still are emotionally invested.(women never want to go backward in relationships).

Truth be told: once you said you were moving in, she probably told friends and family how excited she was that the relationship was progressing. (A women's second currency, social validation). You pulled back and the the opinions started flying.

I'm posting this to give you perspective from the other side of the issue. It may come in handy some day.

That is extremely insightful and a great point of view. You pretty much nailed it. That is EXACTLY what happened. She let me lead...I said I love you first.... then within 8 months I was head over heels for her... and was considering asking her to marry me... but figured we move in first.... again things fell through. Something happened a long the way an unspoken thing. Which was mainly what you said. She felt as though I was pulling back... which in a sense I was. She even said what you said 'I thought we were moving forward, I don't want to be moving backwards. " And also she did tell family and friends! Now I feel terrible!

 

[jgoodz]

You knew her for six month, then you were going to sell your house & move in with her. Is'nt that a little quick?

It was actually 8 months but yea that was a little quick. Hell! I was even considering on proposing at that time! I said I love you within 3 months. :/

 

[jgoodz]

When Prime_Beef was dating Mrs. Beef, after a couple, few months, Mr. Beef disappeared for a couple weeks. .. Frantically, Mrs Beef reached me by phone and I simply told her I was busy, call you in a few. Mr Beef had to take a quick time out.. coz. I knew.. I either quit this woman now and get back to my hedonistic (but empty) ways or commit, knowing without a doubt this was headed to marriage, and she was probably "the one" or one of "the ones" I'd encounter in life. Mrs. Beef came very real with her pursuit, was cute, educated, never lied, sh*t tested, had integrity, industriousness, and was very good with kids. In short, her game was tight and I knew it. There's a lot to what Liveyourdream says. If it's there and you feel it but have cold feet, picture yourself and how you imagine living with a woman 5, 10 yrs in the future . Does she fit the bill? Take the sex, sexiness out of the equation .. If you don't feel it move on

How old were you? How old was she? I've thought about the 5-10 years down the line part of it. And I was scared that we would have kids but possibly get divorced or be sick of each other. or opposite. or I continued dating until I found someone 'better' and then see what happens . I looked at all scenarios yet I couldn't predict the future. Cold feet got the best of me in the end here. And now I'm stuck with a whole fat load of nothing.

 

[Rainman4707]

It was actually 8 months but yea that was a little quick. Hell! I was even considering on proposing at that time! I said I love you within 3 months. :/

I don't think you're the only one who feel like that. ^^^^^^^ some guys move in after 3 month get married & have kids.

My GF turned 32 in March. I've told her, her clock is ticking (she fuc*ing hates me saying that)
I can understand your concern as your girl is 35. I agree with you, you have to start trying for children .VERY SOON.

Don't know what I can tell you now jgoodz. You seem like you've got a good head on your shoulders. I think it's a big problem that she dose'nt seem in a rush to have kids.

How about her staying over at yours or visa versa?

Obviously these big life choices are hugely diffficult

 

[Prime_Beef]

There's no way to know the future. Mrs Beef was 31, I was 36,37. She happily signed a prenup and had no qualms about it, I knew she was in it for the right reasons. There's no perfect woman, no perfect man, it's what you make. If your woman is flexible and understanding you may pull it off but she'd be stupid to play about this for too long, and you'd lose respect for her if she did.

 

[ubercat]

@jgoodz about the living arrangements you need to frame the decision as .... having some place for us, somewhere cool.

Then you both sell your places and buy something BETTER. If she moves out of her place and has to accept going down she will become resentful. And it has to be something she cares about, e.g. jacuzzi walk in wardrobe, nicer Neighborhood basically something she can boast to her friends about that give that that going up in the world vibe. Good woman or not most r built that way.