"We have to talk. I'm moving out."

[Bokanovsky]

Literally, alpha is a position. The #1 male. PUAs, and maybe only PUAs, tend to think of alpha as a mindset because they are trying to mimic the behaviors and attitudes of true alpha males.

Yes, the word "alpha" is used in a different context on this forum. A true alpha would never have to worry about "game" and picking up chicks because, as the most powerful male, he could claim any woman he chose.

 

[evan12]

Yes, the word "alpha" is used in a different context on this forum. A true alpha would never have to worry about "game" and picking up chicks because, as the most powerful male, he could claim any woman he chose.

that is in theory , in biology alpha male is the most aggressive male who can fight other males for resources and females. but may be here is the lesson , you fight other males and get resources and females will come to you volunteerly , but if this alpha was only chasing females it wouldnt work

 

[Bokanovsky]

that is in theory , in biology alpha male is the most aggressive male who can fight other males for resources and females. but may be here is the lesson , you fight other males and get resources and females will come to you volunteerly , but if this alpha was only chasing females it wouldnt work

The original concept of an "alpha male" does not really apply to the modern society. No one man - not even the President of the United States or a CEO of a Fortune 500 Company - could have any woman he wanted. In fact, such rich and powerful men often have very ordinary looking or even ugly wives. Sure, there are hot gold diggers who'd love to get with Bill Gates for his money, but thanks to our laws, he'd be a fool to have a relationship with women like that. And we all know what happened Bill Gates and Tiger Woods when they tried to get some action on the side.

Bottom line is, we live in a society where power and wealth can actually be an obstacle to getting women. The very real threat of becoming a victim of false allegation, combined with the nosy media always on the look for the lastest scandal, makes it difficult for men at the very top to score. The only exceptions to this rule, for the time being at least, are performers and movie stars. They are the closest thing to an alpha male that exists in the modern society.

 

[Zarky]

From what I've read, the term technically refers to "the highest status male" in a smallish group of animals. And technically you can't have "alpha males," you can only have one in any given group.

You're not going to have a true "alpha male" in a group of 100 million krill in the ocean, or of 7 billion humans. However you could have an alpha male in a small population of humans.. say in a small town or at a place of business etc. And if a guy is well-known enough (movie star, african dictator, etc) he could likely be seen as an alpha male even in a large population.

So this is how I look at it in human context:

"Alpha males" are the men who have the highest social status in a particular group. This status could be caused by any number of things, depending on the goal of the group. At some gym it might be the most built guy; at some comic-con convention it might be the guy with the most kickass Darth Vader costume. It's completely contextual

"Game" is merely the simulation of higher social status than you actually have. True alpha males don't have to use game because they don't need to simulate what they already have. However, in large cities where women can't check up very easily on whether or not you actually have high social status, game can work quite well because women have to take those cues from your own behavior.

One of the reasons women try to delay sex is so that they can check to see if the status you project is your true status. This is one of the reasons for "sh*t tests."

So my prediction would be that 'game' works best in large communities, and less well in small communities where all the women already know that you're a shlub

 

[zekko]

Those are all good points, Zarky. I don't live in a big city, so maybe that's why I've always found the "act like you're a bigger deal than you are" type techniques to be laughable and even immature. And why I've been able to have success with more honest approaches. I definitely try not to undersell my own value though.

As you state, most guys can only hope to be alphas of relatively small groups. This is why PUAs talk about "situational alphas", where a guy can be king of his gun club but a small fry at work or in his social group. In modern society we move quickly between different sets of groups, something that didn't really happen in small primitive tribes.

 

[Boilermaker]

BB is an educated man, and MOST educated men invite ALL perspectives--at the risk of being socially ostracized. THAT is the only "Alpha" action that I admire thus far about BB's actions pertaining to this thread. At least he has the STONES to post up his dirty laundry.

But DO NOT expect me to support ANY guy on this site who laments that a woman is leaving him, then a few days later announces that he's back with the same woman, and a few days after that, announces thoughts of marrying her!

I know I know...they were together 5 years...SO WHAT. LIFE GOES ON. NOW GET OUT THERE AND SPIN PLATES! BB's been on here a long time, but when ANY member starts biatching and moaning about a girl leaving him, he gets the same advice from me that I would give to any other member: SPIN PLATES.

"The road to excess leads to wisdom." --Blake
To me, Spinning Plates is NOT merely a catchphrase or empty jargon... it's the PATH to a better, more fulfilling, richer life. It leads to POWER and CONFIDENCE.

It's lamentable to me that the majority of men go through this paint-by-numbers Westernized system of life...one woman for a LIFETIME? Fvuck that! It's not MY American Dream. And I REFUSE to advocate that paint-by-numbers lifestyle for other guys, ESPECIALLY on this website, and especially to Bible Belt, a 7-year veteran of the PUA lifestyle. He doesn't get a pass from me. He should know better, in my opinion.

The advice here is unconventional and sometimes disturbing. But you GOTTA be willing to filter through the bullshiat and LISTEN to what guys like us are really saying--and I'll bet money THAT is why Bible Belt aired his dirty laundry on SS.

Espi - you are an educated, reasonable and smart man, too. The reason of existence for SoSuave is to be a guideline. If you didn't know any of this, and were constantly unhappy regarding your social life, this information would be like gold.

But don't you think Bible_Belt has been here for a while now?

At the end of the day, we should respect the fact that fellows have a right to live their own life in their own terms.

This guy is smart, experienced, and maybe going through a volatile period ... Maybe he'll change his mind later, or maybe he won't.

My general feeling is, we are too quick to judge, too quick to blame . There's no text-book alpha who can cruise through in any given situation during the human

experience. Loving, trusting someone, getting intimate are truly exquisite feelings as cheesy as that sounds. Maybe he's willing to risk a little for the trade-off of

that experience.

I am not up to date with all the details, but I am giving Bible the benefit of the doubt as he has the most relevant information regarding this case, and he's a guy I have come to respect in my many years of SoSuave adventure. I am not saying we should not criticize his actions or warn him of possible dangers, but getting back together with a woman he spent 5 years after a day or two shouldn't qualify him to be a "faggot".

Let's tone down the name-calling, and give it some time, maybe Bible will come back with more information for us to process.

 

[speed dawg]

but getting back together with a woman he spent 5 years after a day or two shouldn't qualify him to be a "faggot".

Let's tone down the name-calling, and give it some time, maybe Bible will come back with more information for us to process.

Quit characterizing the posts of everyone in this thread based on the emotional reactions of an extremist like Burroughs. Your loyalty to Bible Belt is showing through heavily. There is no compassion here, only hard truths. That's how we truly help each other. This is a website, none of us are friends.

This site changed my life and it's not because people gave me the benefit of the doubt. I strongly disagree with your sentiment in this thread.

 

[Zarky]

It's lamentable to me that the majority of men go through this paint-by-numbers Westernized system of life...one woman for a LIFETIME? Fvuck that! It's not MY American Dream. And I REFUSE to advocate that paint-by-numbers lifestyle for other guys, ESPECIALLY on this website

I agree with this. Which is why I can't help but put down guys here who on one hand lament the "current state of the world" due to "feminism" and suggest that men should avoid marriage at all costs... and then say things like:

pull the trigger on the one who wants to stick around to have children, raise a family, be loyal, cook and clean

So damn silly. Those days are OVER. Deal with it. Spin plates or be a bitter incel. There are no other options, unless you want some pathetic destitute 3rd-world wife. I'll pass.

 

[vatoloco]

Sad to read this. "Familiarity breeds contempt." Look at sig: Game is Forever!

 

[Boilermaker]

So damn silly. Those days are OVER. Deal with it. Spin plates or be a bitter incel. There are no other options, unless you want some pathetic destitute 3rd-world wife. I'll pass.

So invested in your beliefs, aren't you? There are no other options, you sound like Morpheus from the Matrix.

You are the opposite of what you criticize so vehemently, you must be absolutely right, because you live that way. And if you led a tiny bit different life-style,

you wouldn't be putting down guys who thought differently. We rest assured.

Of course, there are other options, and believe it or not, going back to your fat ex-girlfriend who pulled a stunt on you is one of them.

... Relax, go play some tennis. That's a better way to discharge.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Yeah, it was quite the discussion. I just now logged on to read it.

I've been having too much sex to stay mad. Our relationship now is basically foreplay, sex, and afterglow. We've had more sex in the past week than the past six months. I go to her new place almost every night, fvck, and then leave. The sex is the wild, screaming, messy affair that I have always liked with her. Call it oneitis or scarcity mentality, but I don't want to have to teach another woman all these things all over again. The last girl I fvcked besides her was ten years younger than me, but it was more like a lesson than sex. And yeah, she's overweight, but it's mostly boobs and butt. Let he who hath cometh in G-cup cleavage throw the first stone.

I never did fix her fence; I've let her do all of her own chores around the new place. She has to mow her own yard for the first time in five years. The push mower is good exercise. She cooked me dinner on Sunday. We are still yet to go on any type of date, or go out and spend any money. She's broke from moving. I actually have more money than her right now.

I still talk to my ex-wife, the one who cheated on me, the one I'm supposed to hate. She's sorry; I've forgiven her. She converted to Islam and got married. She is really not supposed to be talking to me; it is considered adultery and her husband could divorce her. But she still calls me fairly regularly. She knew the events of this thread from talking to me last week. Last night, she called me wanting to send me money, which I gratefully refused. I told her that my gf and I had never really broken up; we were still together. She is a counselor by trade and the whole thing blew her mind. So I don't expect anyone to be able to understand or relate.

Speaking of no one being able to relate, she never did put up much of an argument about going off her birth control. She obviously would be happy with a baby, which is something she never would have just come out and told me. I had to guess. I am fine with it, too. She turns 37 in August, and is one year away from a two-year Master's program that will double her income. I told her I don't want to mess up her life, but she said she will make it work. My issue is that 40 is like a reproductive wall for a woman. Conception is possible, but it's really better to not even try. By age forty, 90% of a woman's remaining eggs will contain a genetic defect, most of which will cause miscarriage. She had a miscarriage at age 21 and never has had a child. And I've never knocked anyone up. The odds of it happening seem slim.

I'm going to buy a ring soon just to keep around in case she turns up pregnant. Those man-made diamonds are damn cheap. I'm not in a big hurry to propose, though. I am really happy with life as it is right now, although I know this specific arrangement won't last forever.

A friend of mine went through court-ordered drug rehab a long time ago. He told me that one of the things they taught was that two people could have exactly the same life, yet one would be happy and the other would be miserable. The difference was merely their attitude about their life. That's how I feel right now. I didn't realize how much I liked what I had. I blame myself for being an a55hole to her lately, which is why she left. All I had to do was stop being a d!ck, and it was like flipping a switch from bad relationship to good. Either you want to be happy with your life, or you don't.

Like I said, I'm not intentionally trying to antagonize anyone with this story. I value everyone's perspective; the discussion helps me think. But at the same time, my concept of what alpha is does not involve worrying about what anyone else thinks. Obviously, I'm not trying to be popular. I'm just telling a true story.

 

[The Duke]

Bible Belt- What do you plan to do after honeymoon phase #2 dies out? You and her haven't changed or resolved anything.

 

[speed dawg]

I didn't realize how much I liked what I had. I blame myself for being an a55hole to her lately, which is why she left. All I had to do was stop being a d!ck, and it was like flipping a switch from bad relationship to good. Either you want to be happy with your life, or you don't.

There is certainly an art to this. You remind me of myself, being a d*ck to cover up your real (and more fragile) self. Scared to show your true colors. You have to break that wall down and be TRULY confident in yourself to have meaningful relationships with anyone else. You can keep women around by being a d*ck, therefore keeping the challenge, high IL, by accident. But that's generally not healthy.

But what gets me is that this girl wanted to leave you. Only you know that situation. It typically doesn't work out long term in situations like this. Perhaps she has a higher vision of herself. Good luck to you however it turns out.

 

[SAYNO]

Just walk away!



Oh well, another one bites the dust. Sadly he refuses to listen to the advice given here. I could care less, if men keep being fools then foolish things will keep happening to them. :nono:

Oh and by the way, am I the only one here who realizes that when a woman leaves or puts a man out they almost always have someone else that they are involved with. The reason that they keep contact is to see if it will work out with the other person, and if it doesnt then they will try to reestablish the one with the person (sucker) that they just left. It normally doesnt work out with the other person and so they almost always make a u-turn.

The trick is to beat them at their own game, and have a backup plan, which nowdays is essential. (oh and and spin plates). Most men get too complacent in relationships because their are always signs words, body language and phrases, that will tip you off that things have went south. If you watch you closely you will know and your gut will NEVER EVER lead you astray!

I remember one time I was living with this female and she up and out of the blue asked me to get out. I didn't have anywhere else to go, so I asked her if she was seeing someone else and she said that she wasn't, she swore to God that she would never ever do that to me. I knew that she was lying but couldn't prove it. The apartment was her place and my name wasnt on the lease, so I had no recourse. I was literally sleeping in my car and going back and forth to work, So yeah, basically living out of my car (that she bought for me lol).

So, anyway five days later I decided to go do a little detective work and spy on her and sure enough there was another dude invovled and he quit her after he had pumped and dumped her about a week or two after she quit me, she tried to come back, but I told her this:

"What kind of man do you think I am? What kind of person would take someone back who didn't even care if they were living on the streets? You would lose the little respect that you have left for me If I did took you back!"

I told her that there was no way in hell that I would ever trust her again, because to have someone there five days after you put me out means that you had been seeing and ****ing him for quite some time. When I thought back on it I remember how she went for loving me cooking for me and blow jobs, to no cooking and no sex in a very short period. Probably the biggest indicator was her attitude it go so bad that I couldn't stand being around here, in fact that has always been the way I have caught women ****ing around their attitude will get ****ED UP FAST!!!

Here is the key point. They stop doing those things for you because they are too busy doing them for someone else. The good part was that I never stopped spinning plates. Was I hurt? You damn straight I was, but I am old enough and wise enough to know that with most woman even if its someone you trust (and I really trusted this female) that its a crap shoot. They are selfish, manipulative, disloyal, narcisstic and decietful. And those are the good ones!! LOL

No seriously man she did you a favor, when a woman walks out of your life, its usually because they think that they are somehow above you and that means that you have either covertly or overtly indicated to them that their were in control and you have lost the frame. But I swear to God even in my AFC days when ***** said that she wanted out I always helped them get to where they were going, I never begged or groveled never not once. And this has always confused every woman that has ever done this to me. All have tried to come back except one..

Also to dispel a myth about women, they stray for various reasons, but the main reason is almost always, that they've met someone that they are more sexually stimulated by at least for the moment, the bigger better deal and that coupled with their girlfriends telling them that they can do better than you makes a recipe for disaster.

Now a special word about fat woman. In my case it was different, this was a woman who was overweight when I met her but she lost weight and a year later we started dating, but I started to noticed that the more weight she lost, the more she started talking about guys hitting on her at work. Now that was my first sign, and so I knew the handwriting was on the wall and that it was only a matter of time. That why I was able to get about 30,000 from her, 2 cars, clothes and keyboards and musical equipment over the last two years. So at least I walked away with something. I remember the joy and adulation that I experinced when she called me one day and asked me if I was aware of how much money she had spent on me. I laughed and said "You blazed me and I blazed you now were even" she got mad and hung up, then she started, beging for me to take her back calling my job and asking when my days off were and after that she called my brother, I ended up telling her that I was going to get a restrainging order if she didn't stop!! :cuss:

I lost complete and total respect for her, and she obviously had none for me.
She made the usual excuses that *****s make when they get busted, you weren't there for me I got weak, you lost my head, he was there for me when you couldn't be etc, etc. But here's the good part, the guy that she left me for gave her syphillis, I went and got checked but didn't have it. :nervous:

Thank God! Moral of the story is let *****s be *****s and just walk away, there are millions of woman in this world, so why worry over a fatty or in my case a has been fatty. Just walk away. Woman always realize when its too
late.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The moving out was just to get my attention. She knew I might be mad enough to dump her, but she never once said she was breaking up with me or anything like that. I have had that talk enough with other women to recognize it: we've grown apart, I need space, I think of you as a friend. There was none of that.

One of the side effects of her old birth control is weight gain. Between stopping that, having to do all of the work around her own house, and all the sex cardio, I can't see her not losing weight. I think she's been going to the gym more now, too. Obviously, it's not my fault she's overweight now, but making her feel fat because I was mad did not help at all. I thought it would make her try harder, but it had the opposite effect. There's a Family Guy episode along those lines. Lois gets a little fat, Peter stops having sex with her, then she gets really fat. A woman's self-image is too fragile to take negative reinforcement for very long, which is confusing because it can work so well in the short-term. Being a d!ck will often get a guy laid, but it's hard to keep a relationship together for very long.

Blame is really a useless concept in a relationship, because it's almost always both sides who are at fault. Relationship issues tend to be this back-and-forth tennis match over time. One side gets mad, lashes out, the other side hits back just a little bit harder. It turns into "oh yeah? I'll show you!" Then both sides get carried away with trying to win without realizing that there is no winning.

People who are in bad relationships are making that choice over being happy. It goes for men and women both. They are choosing whatever drama and abuse the relationship brings. But it's subconscious and due to one's own psychological issues; none of them realize it. All they can see is blame toward the other side. People who are miserable typically do it to themselves. They just can't see it.

If I told her to go back on birth control, she would not argue. But I know she obviously wants a child, and the thought does not bother me that much at this point in my life. Two of her cousins are pregnant and she is in charge of the baby shower for each of them. She has always tried to be like an aunt to her friends' kids. Women have a need to mother, and it eats at them if they never get to. I don't want her to not get what she wants out of life because she is with me.

As for whether or not we can still be happy after 'honeymoon 2' is over, we shall see. My ex-wife said "if you are married and have kids with her, you will probably have to live together at some point, you know that, right?" At that point we will have to get over all the tiny things to fight about that cohabitation brings. I feel like it will be better at seeing it coming now. I repeated a lot of mistakes in this relationship that I made in my marriage; it took the same thing happening twice for me to see what was going on.

I read a quote recently that I liked. "It is impossible to be happier than your spouse." I also very much agree with the comments that I pasted below.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130602093522AA7xirQ

Roth's Iron Rule of Marriage: It's impossible for you to be happier than your spouse.

Here's my take on it: Movies, commercials, and celebrity and consumer culture would have us believe that our happiness depends on what we own: nice things, money, toys, possessions. They would also lead us to believe that our personal appearance and the appearance of our partner make us happier. That is, the better looking we and our partner are, the happier we will be. Both of these ideas have been disproven. Money makes us happy when we have more of it only up until a certain amount, in the US, about $70K in a household. Any money, land, or possessions in excess of that amount have little effect on our happiness. There is also no proven correlation between physical appearance and happiness. Companies want us to believe that happiness comes from buying because they want to sell us things.. Movies and advertising want us to believe that happiness comes from physical appearance because movies and advertising are primarily visual mediums that are most effective at promoting the value of the physical appearance. The power of capitalism and most media rest on the disproven notion that happiness flows from material objects.

It turns out that most happiness doesn't come from material objects but from from people and our relationships with people. For example, it's been shown that those who live the longest turn out to have the most friends in their old age.

Anyone who has ever been in a relationship knows that it's very difficult to be happy if the person you are with isn't happy. So the corollary to Roth's Iron Law of Marriage is: Happiness in relationships depends upon partners learning to keep themselves and one another happy.

 

[MikeOck]

I think you have been given some outstanding advice in this thread Bible Belt. I also know how difficult it is to walk away from something you have invested many years into. As a grown man, you are allowed to make your own decisions in life, after all, you are the one who has to live it, you reap the rewards of success and you pay the price of failure, not us.

I'm also not going to repeat everything that has been said here, even though much of it is worth repeating. What I will say is that your relationship is broken. It is possible to repair, at least temporarily, but you are going to have to make the difficult effort to address the root cause of the problems and work to resolve them. Right now you are in the second "honeymoon phase", but that won't last. If you move forward without both making the proper effort, you will find yourself right back where you were a few days ago but possibly with life long obligations to her (child support, custody battles, etc). It is easiest to not rock the boat, but communication is the key to success in any relationship, if you can't discuss the challenges with each other rationally, you stand no chance of making it long term, and this is why you ended up where you were in the original post in the first place.

Good luck to you.

 

[cordoncordon]

This is some pretty impressive intellectual gymnastics.

So your girl gets fat, breaks up with you and your response is to reward her behaviour with marriage and a baby too? This is beyond a joke.

We may not have all the facts, and as it's your life you may justify it as much as you like, but you're getting played - maybe not by her directly, but by your own desperation to keep this woman.

And I don't buy that whole "when you find your special someone do what makes you happy". There are legions of AFCs who'd be more than happy to sacrifice their entire lives for the (temperemental) love of a women. Just because something makes you happy in the short term doesn't mean it's in your long term interest.

I don't understand any of his actions myself, but to each his own. It really sounds to me as if he is rationalizing everything just to try and save this. Odds are though that somewhere down the line, within a year most likely, this will all come crashing down and he will have wasted a year in trying to get his life, both personally and professionally, together. Then he is going to spend 6 months or more grieving the loss of the relationship when he could have been well on his way to living a brand new life.

Regardless, good luck BB.

 

[zekko]

I don't understand any of his actions myself, but to each his own. It really sounds to me as if he is rationalizing everything just to try and save this.

Yeah, I had really intended to stay out of this thread from here on, because I had said what I wanted to say. But the whole "She only moved out to get my attention" bit really screams of backwards rationalization and self delusion. Keep telling yourself that, BB.

On the other hand, we also have this:

I blame myself for being an a55hole to her lately, which is why she left

This is an interesting line to me, because if you read this forum, you will have the impression that being an @sshole to a woman will captivate her and turn her into a mindless love slave with no will of her own, and she will follow and pine after you until the ends of the earth. But here we see a tale out of reality, and the girl leaves because the guy was being an @ss. Just another example of how PUA lore and the real world often have very little in common.

 

[Zarky]

Kind of reminds me of alcoholism. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Even after 20 years of sobriety, one slip-up and you're drunk in the gutter.

Once an AFC always an AFC? Does someone who started out as an AFC always risk slipping up and reverting to his AFC ways?

I think the reason this thread has so many posts is that BB's ridiculously rapid return to AFCdom (and obvious self-delusion about it) makes everyone a little nervous.

 

[evan12]

But here we see a tale out of reality, and the girl leaves because the guy was being an @ss. Just another example of how PUA lore and the real world often have very little in common.

I think she left because he offer no value to her , now when he going to propose marriage and take responsibility of the kid , she will review her decision because there is a value in staying with him .

BB: if you are going to offer value to a woman by marriage and having kids , then I think you can get younger woman and better looking , especially you are MMA player , unless you live in some man hating city like Toronto .
again you know better about your self .

to guys who are saying leave BB alone , I say he shared his story with us , so that mean we want us to interact with him.