Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Women who flake

Victory Unlimited

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And Jayer,


Here's a Repost of more of my observations on Flaking, from my "Mature Man State of the Union" thread:



On the subject of FLAKE BOMBS

"Men, we all know that flaking is defined as a woman saying one thing and doing another-----UNEXPECTEDLY. And usually this is revealed in the context of missed appointments. Some more specific examples of this is when a woman agrees to a date, a phone call, an outing, etc. but then WITHOUT WARNING stands you up, or changes her mind then offers you a weak-assed excuse later (if you’re “lucky”), or otherwise blows you off (but not in the GOOD way…lol).

So this is what we mean by the word “flake”. But the explosive, “suddenness” of a woman blowing away your plans to get with her is what makes these events “Bomb-like”.

Why do they flake? It is usually due to a woman being somewhat attracted to you, but having no real recognition of your value as a man. Too much attraction and not enough value leads to a woman flaking on you. And too much value and not enough attraction leads to a woman categorizing you as a friend at best, or a tool for her to use for whatever purpose she chooses to AT WORST.


The NEGATIVE side of FLAKING:

Age has no bearing on women flaking, only Interest Level does. Think about it: Most of these chicks are rejecting you without having really gotten a chance to get to KNOW you. This is why a woman flaking on you is most of the time, NOT a true reflection on YOU, but rather a lack of high interest or character flaw on HER part.

Why do I say “lack of character” on her part? Because by flaking, she is actually showing you that she has NO respect for you as a person simply because you are a romantically interested MAN. If something “came up” on the day she was supposed to go out with her “girlfriends”, nine times out of ten, she’d call them and tell them.

And if something “came up” on the day she was supposed to go to work, nine times out of ten, GUESS WHAT???....she’d call her employers, AND TELL THEM. It’s usually a pretty safe bet that she WOULDN’T just say to herself “whatever”, and then just go on with her day like she never had AGREED to those events in the first place…

So when she doesn’t show YOU the decency of a call, rest assured that it is because she is full of disinterest, disdain, and/or inconsideration for you simply because you ARE a romantically interested man.

Women who flake are mostly those driven to inconsiderateness as a result of feminized Western men’s PEDESTALization of WOMAN----a sad reality that we men have been combating for almost a century. But don’t despair, we can overcome the onslaught of the Biscuit Chicks (the HOT and FLAKEY women) by winning ONE battle at a time, troops!

The reality IS, that most times you will never KNOW for sure what happened. Why? Because their flaky asses will probably NEVER tell you the whole story, let alone the TRUTH.


The POSITIVE side of FLAKING

What the fukk? IS there a positive side to flaking, you may be asking? Well, there CAN be…but ONLY if you look at it from a broader perspective. Here's something that has occurred to me recently, and it may serve as a reminder to ease the minds of many of you here who have the tendency of being TOO hard on yourselves about the injuries you’ve sustained from being hit with flake bombs:

Since I have improved MYSELF so much in such a short period of time, my OVERALL attractiveness has skyrocketed. Troops, I suggest to you that another reason why a lot of women flake on you is because you have BECOME more "initially" appealing to a much wider range of women.

The more of a good CATCH you are perceived to be by a larger population of women, then the wider your NET becomes for reeling them in. So it would stand to reason that once your initial “superficial” attractiveness "wears off" in the eyes of women, then they'll start to see you for who you really are INSIDE.

And my experience has taught me that the closer you get to a person, not only do you begin to see THEM more clearly, but they also see YOU more clearly as well.

And once this happens, the WRONG people for YOU will start to self-sabotage the potential relationship because they KNOW deep down that they are either unworthy of you, or incompatible with you. So once this occurs in the mind of a babe, her interest levels can start to plummet without warning. And as I have said many times to you before, this is when her transformation from "Interested Chick" to "Biscuit Chick" has begun.

So you see, that saying really is true. Water really DOES seek it’s own level. Many women ultimately end up running from a man whose presence requires them to raise their standards. So instead, they rush back into the arms of the familiar----the men who are on the same level as they already are (which is usually LOWER than yours…).

So when you detect a woman is losing interest in you based on lack of true CORE-LEVEL compatibility, then it’s usually best to just pull the plug and watch them swirl down the drain.

So what’s the solution? Well, it’s very involved, I’m afraid. For it takes forethought, discipline, and attention to detail to pull it off, but I know you can do it:

To survive exploding Flake Bombs, continue to have strict standards for what behavior you expect, and are willing to accept from a woman. Be “Spartan-Like” in your battle to protect YOUR OWN best interest. Never go against your gut. When you feel instinctively that the choice in any given situation is between keeping the woman or sacrificing your self-respect (Manhood)------choose your self-respect EVERY TIME. Nothing helps you face yourself every morning as you arise like KNOWING you have been true to who YOU really ARE inside.

And the trick to eliminating flaking altogether is to strike the right balance between attraction and value----and the thing that links these two projective qualities together perfectly is TIME spent in the presence of the woman. “If” you want MORE than just a short-term fling, your mission should always be to lead with ATTRACTION and immediately follow up with VALUE.

Any failure to do this will eventually become a failure to keep the majority of women interested long enough to enter the territory of long term relationships. Yes, failure to do this is why so many Cold Approaches (my FAVORITE type) turn into “frosted flakes”."
 

Colossus

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Yo V.U.-

Great posts in this thread. This is DJ 101. I firmly believe that, after self-actualization and self mastery, the ability to discern and sift through levels of interest is the FOUNDATION of success with women. Anti-Dump said so many moons ago.

I also deal with any level of flake the same way--with emotional disregard. As I said in my earlier post, I was in a long, fvcked-up relationship that really left me sour to flakey, unreliable behavior. I can smell a flake from miles away. If they are going to treat my time with disregard, then in turn they receive my emotional disregard; in the form of minimized or terminated contact.

It's been said here for years and will probably be said here for many more, but women with high, genuine interest in you will always demonstrate this through their behavior. That is your gauge, nothing else.
 

Mazeman11

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What exactly do you mean by counter-offer?

If you're planning on going to an event for example and makes a last minute excuse, then says she still would like to go out during the week or on the weekend, does that count?
 

guru1000

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Victory Unlimited said:
Women with HIGH interest level in you could even be in a HOSPITAL recovering from PNEUMONIA and still be so eager to see you that she would get special permission from her doctor AND her insurance company in order to have her bed-ridden Ass transported by ambulance over to YOUR house-----JUST so SHE could have "visiting hours" with YOU!
.
This is how a woman you offer VALUABLE time to SHOULD behave.

This is the ESSENCE of the PRIZE MENTALITY.

FRAME and PRIZE MENTALITY are often repeated here. They are never really understood.

A woman will treat you with HIGH IL if she feels you are her PRIZE.

If you are not her prize to be won, she will not be THAT interested.

To be her PRIZE , you must demonstrate tangible and intangible VALUE that puts you in the TOP percentile of her past experiences.

She will ALWAYS compare your VALUE to her previous lovers to EVALUATE her own IL.

In other words, if her past relationships consisted of wealthy men with high status and you are broke , you have little shot to be the PRIZE of a gold digger. Unless you PAINT the picture that you are in her TOP PERCENTILE (rich).

If a woman's top percentile were tall men and you were short, you would have alot of work ahead of you.

This is the PUA's job. To CREATE the ARTIFICIAL FRAME and paint a beautiful PICTURE to get laid. This of course backfires LT as you are not truly her PRIZE.

For a relationshop to endure the test of time, you need to remain her PRIZE.

When a woman exhibits Low-Med IL in you, she is really saying "You are not my PRIZE". This SHOULD be your exit.

But why NEXT every woman whose actions do now show HIGH IL?

Why pursue a woman who will PLACE you in the lower percentile? These women do not APPRECIATE or VALUE your time. You are a CRUTCH used for convenience.

Time is your most valuable commodity. Do not INJECT interest, FILTER it.
 

Mr. Me

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What exactly do you mean by counter-offer?

If you're planning on going to an event for example and makes a last minute excuse, then says she still would like to go out during the week or on the weekend, does that count?
You have to be more specific in what she said: Do you mean she says:

"Can't make it. But let's make it another time. Give me a call. Maybe next week would be good?"

Or did she say:

"Can't make it, But I do want to see you. How's next Thursday evening? That's good for me. Is it good for you?"

The second one is a specific counter offer. The first one is a vague generality and is more like a stall.

Even better - if she's calling to cancel would be to hear her making it up to you:

Hey... can't make it! I'm really sorry! How about you come over next Wednesday and I'll cook dinner?"
 

Juando

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guru1000 said:
This is how a woman you offer VALUABLE time to SHOULD behave.

This is the ESSENCE of the PRIZE MENTALITY.

FRAME and PRIZE MENTALITY are often repeated here. They are never really understood.

A woman will treat you with HIGH IL if she feels you are her PRIZE.

If you are not her prize to be won, she will not be THAT interested.

To be her PRIZE , you must demonstrate tangible and intangible VALUE that puts you in the TOP percentile of her past experiences.

She will ALWAYS compare your VALUE to her previous lovers to EVALUATE her own IL.

In other words, if her past relationships consisted of wealthy men with high status and you are broke , you have little shot to be the PRIZE of a gold digger. Unless you PAINT the picture that you are in her TOP PERCENTILE (rich).

If a woman's top percentile were tall men and you were short, you would have alot of work ahead of you.

This is the PUA's job. To CREATE the ARTIFICIAL FRAME and paint a beautiful PICTURE to get laid. This of course backfires LT as you are not truly her PRIZE.

For a relationshop to endure the test of time, you need to remain her PRIZE.

When a woman exhibits Low-Med IL in you, she is really saying "You are not my PRIZE". This SHOULD be your exit.

But why NEXT every woman whose actions do now show HIGH IL?

Why pursue a woman who will PLACE you in the lower percentile? These women do not APPRECIATE or VALUE your time. You are a CRUTCH used for convenience.

Time is your most valuable commodity. Do not INJECT interest, FILTER it.
I have been the recipient of HIGH IL in my life. Ironically, this is STILL an issue with me.

My ex gave HIGH IL most of our time together. And then there were other shorter relationships with it so I have definitely experienced my share.

And yet, brothers, I feel that this is truly the first time in my life where I am starting to become aware and conscious in this (critical) area.

Being the recipient of HIGH IL did not educate me or make me aware, dumbass me. I took it for granted but not in a healthy natural way.

My AFC self reigned supreme with insecurity and incomplete development as a MAN trumping the good stuff I was receiving.

And even now I watch myself behaving according to past programming, not going for the HIGH IL, settling, acting unworthy.

Yeah, it's a confession but I also feel excited to put this area front and center and experiment like he l l till it does become natural.

I like a couple of my current plates a lot but it's gonna be uphill to "convert" them to the new me... unfortunately they may have to be replaced with new 'China".
 

lookyoung

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The main reason for flaking is low interest level. Out of all the girls I have ever banged they were pretty receptive from my advances. They did not cancel or act flakey at all. They had high interest level from the start. I could count probably on one hand girls that initially flaked on me and then I ended up banging them. It all comes down to interest level.

That being said its very hard to create a high interest level off of the coldapproach. If you have something that really stands out about you than your more likely to create a high interest level.

This could be things such as...
1. Driving a benz 500 class. Or driving a ferrari. and she sees you driving it.
2. Being at the beach and having a great body.
3. If shes with her friends and her friends say your hot.
4. If you have something in common with her. For example both of your parents were from the same part of Russia.
5. If you get to chat with her and your a DR or have another high status job.
6. if your a club owner and she loves your club.
7. If your famous.

As sad as it sounds the most important thing to eliminate flakes on coldapproach is being good and small talk and socials status. Woman want men who are rare. If a woman sees you as having a quality that few men possess than the rate of the flake decreases 5 fold.
 

Luveno

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Flaking is easy to deal with.

First, you have to realize that if you treat women like children, you will be more successful with them. Women, though putting on the facade of independence, really want a guy who will put them in their place. They want a father figure.

Be that man.

So, if your daughter told you "I'll be there at 8" and then didn't show up, would you reward her for it? Would you let it slide?

No.

You would confront her, and call her on her BS in a stern, objective tone. You would guilt her into setting something up for next time. You would "play games" so to speak. This is how you communicate with women who flake. You manipulate them into doing your bidding.

Dating has a lot of similarities to conflict.
 

Latinoman

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guru1000 said:
This is how a woman you offer VALUABLE time to SHOULD behave.

This is the ESSENCE of the PRIZE MENTALITY.

FRAME and PRIZE MENTALITY are often repeated here. They are never really understood.

A woman will treat you with HIGH IL if she feels you are her PRIZE.

If you are not her prize to be won, she will not be THAT interested.

To be her PRIZE , you must demonstrate tangible and intangible VALUE that puts you in the TOP percentile of her past experiences.

She will ALWAYS compare your VALUE to her previous lovers to EVALUATE her own IL.

In other words, if her past relationships consisted of wealthy men with high status and you are broke , you have little shot to be the PRIZE of a gold digger. Unless you PAINT the picture that you are in her TOP PERCENTILE (rich).

If a woman's top percentile were tall men and you were short, you would have alot of work ahead of you.

This is the PUA's job. To CREATE the ARTIFICIAL FRAME and paint a beautiful PICTURE to get laid. This of course backfires LT as you are not truly her PRIZE.

For a relationshop to endure the test of time, you need to remain her PRIZE.

When a woman exhibits Low-Med IL in you, she is really saying "You are not my PRIZE". This SHOULD be your exit.

But why NEXT every woman whose actions do now show HIGH IL?

Why pursue a woman who will PLACE you in the lower percentile? These women do not APPRECIATE or VALUE your time. You are a CRUTCH used for convenience.

Time is your most valuable commodity. Do not INJECT interest, FILTER it.
I totally agree with this. This is the essence of DJism as it will impact other areas of your life. It amazes me how many people waste their time with the "PUA" stuff and literally ignore self-improvement in the areas that really matter.

Excellent post.
 

Latinoman

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lookyoung said:
The main reason for flaking is low interest level. Out of all the girls I have ever banged they were pretty receptive from my advances. They did not cancel or act flakey at all. They had high interest level from the start. I could count probably on one hand girls that initially flaked on me and then I ended up banging them. It all comes down to interest level.

That being said its very hard to create a high interest level off of the coldapproach. If you have something that really stands out about you than your more likely to create a high interest level.

This could be things such as...
1. Driving a benz 500 class. Or driving a ferrari. and she sees you driving it.
2. Being at the beach and having a great body.
3. If shes with her friends and her friends say your hot.
4. If you have something in common with her. For example both of your parents were from the same part of Russia.
5. If you get to chat with her and your a DR or have another high status job.
6. if your a club owner and she loves your club.
7. If your famous.

As sad as it sounds the most important thing to eliminate flakes on coldapproach is being good and small talk and socials status. Woman want men who are rare. If a woman sees you as having a quality that few men possess than the rate of the flake decreases 5 fold.
Cold approach works good if you manage to see her regularly (subway, bus stop, etc.) and your first approach takes place when you have few minutes to leave the area. E.g., waiting at the bus station...and start conversation with her, when you have about 5-10 minutes before your (or her) bus arrives. This allows her to kind of fantasize about you.
 

STR8UP

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Luveno said:
Flaking is easy to deal with.

First, you have to realize that if you treat women like children, you will be more successful with them. Women, though putting on the facade of independence, really want a guy who will put them in their place. They want a father figure.

Be that man.

So, if your daughter told you "I'll be there at 8" and then didn't show up, would you reward her for it? Would you let it slide?

No.

You would confront her, and call her on her BS in a stern, objective tone. You would guilt her into setting something up for next time. You would "play games" so to speak. This is how you communicate with women who flake. You manipulate them into doing your bidding.

Dating has a lot of similarities to conflict.
I agree with the "Women are pretty much children and should be treated as such" mentality, but when it comes to flaking in the INITIAL stages of a relationship (Does it really happen any other time?), it IS due to her interest level being low, and "calling her out" won't do a goddam thing but drive her further away.

This is what I've been trying to tell people. You can't create attraction by force of hand. If you are dating a chick and she cancels a date without a counter, you "giving her a stern talking to" is just going to lower her interest even more, probably killing it altogether.

Me? Lately I just smile and go about my day. I don't burn bridges, cause you never know if you might be able to get something out of it in the future.
 

JackPrescott

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Colossus said:
Yo V.U.-

Great posts in this thread. This is DJ 101. I firmly believe that, after self-actualization and self mastery, the ability to discern and sift through levels of interest is the FOUNDATION of success with women. Anti-Dump said so many moons ago.

I also deal with any level of flake the same way--with emotional disregard. As I said in my earlier post, I was in a long, fvcked-up relationship that really left me sour to flakey, unreliable behavior. I can smell a flake from miles away. If they are going to treat my time with disregard, then in turn they receive my emotional disregard; in the form of minimized or terminated contact.

It's been said here for years and will probably be said here for many more, but women with high, genuine interest in you will always demonstrate this through their behavior. That is your gauge, nothing else.
Great post. As I've often said, a genuinely interested woman will move mountains to get to your erect penis. A fake ass flake loves the attention and needs it for her ego, but has no interest in you sexually.
 

lookyoung

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Latinoman said:
Cold approach works good if you manage to see her regularly (subway, bus stop, etc.) and your first approach takes place when you have few minutes to leave the area. E.g., waiting at the bus station...and start conversation with her, when you have about 5-10 minutes before your (or her) bus arrives. This allows her to kind of fantasize about you.
Totally agree.:yes:
 

Luveno

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STR8UP said:
I agree with the "Women are pretty much children and should be treated as such" mentality, but when it comes to flaking in the INITIAL stages of a relationship (Does it really happen any other time?), it IS due to her interest level being low, and "calling her out" won't do a goddam thing but drive her further away.

This is what I've been trying to tell people. You can't create attraction by force of hand. If you are dating a chick and she cancels a date without a counter, you "giving her a stern talking to" is just going to lower her interest even more, probably killing it altogether.

Me? Lately I just smile and go about my day. I don't burn bridges, cause you never know if you might be able to get something out of it in the future.
I see what you are saying. I guess you could say that one should not cash out until there is no possibility of return, so to speak.

If a girl flakes, I make it clear to her that I don't tolerate that behavior and that wasting my time reflects badly on her - I deflect the flake from being due to a lack of interest to being due to an inherent character flaw on her part. She SHOULD be interested, because my time is IMPORTANT, and she should feel HONORED that I allowed her to occupy some of my time - I am a man of high VALUE. Calling her out makes her realize this. Essentially, it is creating attraction by force of hand. Of course, I would not expect to have a meaningful long-term relationship with this woman - it would essentially just be a few rolls in the hay.

It may sound crazy, even counterintuitive, but it works about 75% of the time for me.

Perhaps the girl wants to feel as if she is in control. She flaked because she thought she was not interested, which gave her power. But then she realizes that her flaking makes her look like an irresponsible bum, and she wants to rebuild herself in your eyes and gain power over you. This is where you can use her foolish ambition to your advantage.

Hey, if this doesn't work, at least you know that she truly cannot be swayed, and you can move on. Who cares what she thinks of you after you do this?; the world is huge and there are millions of hotter women. Burning bridges isn't important if you're in foreign land, so to speak.
 

Mazeman11

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Mr. Me said:
You have to be more specific in what she said: Do you mean she says:

"Can't make it. But let's make it another time. Give me a call. Maybe next week would be good?"

Or did she say:

"Can't make it, But I do want to see you. How's next Thursday evening? That's good for me. Is it good for you?"

The second one is a specific counter offer. The first one is a vague generality and is more like a stall.

Even better - if she's calling to cancel would be to hear her making it up to you:

Hey... can't make it! I'm really sorry! How about you come over next Wednesday and I'll cook dinner?"
I left a message before the day we were supposed to meet up and she didn't call back. I called next day and I got something like: "Can't make it...maybe during the week or next weekend? "
 

Mr. Me

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I left a message before the day we were supposed to meet up and she didn't call back. I called next day and I got something like: "Can't make it...maybe during the week or next weekend? "
Then that's not a specific counter-offer, is it?

Plus, knowing that you were to meet the next day, she didn't call you back. BIG RED FLAG.

But... you left a message the day before you were to meet up? Why? Had she asked you to confirm the day before (which is another sign given when actually making the date, that she'll flake)?

I don't confirm appointments. Neither in dating or in business. Sounds crazy, but, if the other party's interested, they'll make a point of keeping the date/appointment. In business, if I say I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. Period. That's what I'm in business for! I don't appointments with prospects in order to stand them up, right?

If something comes up, I'll call, but I don't have to confirm something that's definite. That's like an oxymoron. And a business meeting - as well as a date - is a definite. If it needs to be confirmed, then it's NOT. So... if they want me to confirm first, then I know it's not a definite thing for them and I'll cancel the frickin' appointment. Or the date.

How dare people expect you (in business or for a date) to tie up a few hours of your time for THEM, YET they aren't willing to commit to the same and will make you spin your wheels and leave you hanging. So, when they say "please confirm first", I'm like, "let's make it another time instead".

Here's such a conversation from several weeks ago:

ME: "How about Sunday afternoon, for a cup of coffee?"

SHE: "Sounds great! Sunday afternoon... Just give me a call the day before to confirm."

ME: "Look, I'd rather not tie up my Sunday afternoon if you're not sure you can't make it, okay? Let's do it another time when you know you can make it."

Now get this! She actually says:

"Oh no, no, no! Sunday's fine!

(pause)

...Just call me Saturday to confirm."

She actually asks for a confirmation AGAIN! (she probably never had a guy refuse before and so she didn't know how to handle it) I insisted that I'm not going to make a "maybe" date, and that we should speak another time, said goodbye and threw away her number. That's Flake Prevention 101.

A woman does that, she's really saying "Hey, I'll make that date with you - but if something else comes along that I'd rather do or someone I'd rather be with, I'm going to cancel".

It ought to be HER who's wondering if YOU'RE going to be there. Women who are interested show up - NO confirmation needed. Go figure.
 

jophil28

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Dupe
 

jophil28

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Mr. Me said:
... I insisted that I'm not going to make a "maybe" date, and that we should speak another time, said goodbye and threw away her number. That's Flake Prevention 101.
This is priceless - " Im not going to make a MAYBE date ...." ha ha ha !

Excellent words, I just wrote that on my fridge.
 

guru1000

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I respond "I dont do MAYBES, Yes or No".

They always respond "YES, YES"

ME "Nevermind, you dont sound enthusiastic enough."

Her "Ok. YES! YES!"

ME: "Ok , Ill think about it"

Her: "O Come on"

Me: "On one condition, your treat"
 
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