"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.
Women like this are why I dont pay for First Dates
- Thread starter J Roc
- Start date
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
timmylivingalie
Senior Don Juan
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Yea I saw that the other it was disgusting. Bunch of guys got played.
Iceberg
Master Don Juan
I reserve dinner dates for real girlfriends. There's nothing more boring than sitting at a table watching someone you barely know eat food.
And secondly....these chicks are doing this just for dinner? Not rent payments or college bills? That's just pathetic. Going to a restaurant with a stranger who you're not even attracted to just for a free meal. I'd rather sit at home eating cans of tuna.
And secondly....these chicks are doing this just for dinner? Not rent payments or college bills? That's just pathetic. Going to a restaurant with a stranger who you're not even attracted to just for a free meal. I'd rather sit at home eating cans of tuna.
timmylivingalie
Senior Don Juan
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What if the chick is insisting on going to dinner?
"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.
As the man, I'm expected to risk rejection and approach her, get her number, and invite her on a date.timmylivingalie said:
As the initiator, I choose the date activity. She either chooses to comply or she doesn't.
Since I'm not dependent on this one woman for dates, I don't allow her to dictate to me. I lead, and if she wants to spend time with me, she follows.
a good rule that unfortunately is rarely followed by men.
women have been getting free meals from men for a long time. The only shocking thing about this is to have a woman openly admit it in a news story. Not really shocking just sad.
Because of this story I wouldn't be surprised if online dating gets a big boost. As in women on POF and other dating sites agreeing to go on dates more and more just for the meal with no intention of talking to the guy they went out with after the date is over. I'm sure it already happens now but to a lesser extent.
All those hot girls on POF who are just there to suck in attention from all the drooling guys that fill up her message box and don't go out with anybody are now thinking "you know what i could be getting a free meal every weekend if i wanted."
Masculinity
Master Don Juan
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This is actually true. When an event is broadcasted in the mass media frequency of an event goes through the roof, including negative behaviors such as those in my Prooff283000 said:
Screw paying for first dates. Before I go out with a girl, I make it clear that she has to pay for her food because we are only hanging out as friends--implying I
have not yet decided if I'm interested in her. Her wondering about what you mean and whether you want her or not alone will better your chances with her.
jafyk
Master Don Juan
Can you guys give an honest answer to my question? Are there any of you who have chilled with a male buddy and paid for his drink? Sure some of you have right? So, to the poster saying hanging out with a woman as a friend bla bla bla...what's wrong if you choose to pay for her drink?
Sure the lady we are talking about got free dinners but she said that if the guy had asked her to to pay for her half she would've done it. Anyway this scenario is a catch 22 (damned if you do, damned if you don't). Part of the history with this situation has to do with the expectation society have placed on men. Honestly there have been times I wanted to pay for a woman and she refused. I kinda felt rejected, lol. Sometimes paying for the woman makes me feel like the man you know? I'm a bit worried about women who never want anything. I feel like maybe they are not really interested and are doing that because they don't want to feel any kind of obligation or responsibility towards me. I prefer a healthy balance. Some women are just overly independent.
Sure the lady we are talking about got free dinners but she said that if the guy had asked her to to pay for her half she would've done it. Anyway this scenario is a catch 22 (damned if you do, damned if you don't). Part of the history with this situation has to do with the expectation society have placed on men. Honestly there have been times I wanted to pay for a woman and she refused. I kinda felt rejected, lol. Sometimes paying for the woman makes me feel like the man you know? I'm a bit worried about women who never want anything. I feel like maybe they are not really interested and are doing that because they don't want to feel any kind of obligation or responsibility towards me. I prefer a healthy balance. Some women are just overly independent.
Dust 2 Dust
Master Don Juan
It means she's using you for a free dinner and you'll never see her again. An AFC and his money will soon be parted.timmylivingalie said:
Dinner dates are a reward for women you're already sleeping with and crazy about. It took me years before finally realizing this rule. In the initial phases of dating you should be either taking them on action dates or going out for drinks.
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
Thats because my male buddy is a "friend". A woman who you have just met and are taking out to dinner is not a friend...jafyk said:
I have some women friends that need help with their rent payment. Would you like to help them out since spending money on females makes you feel like such a man? LOL :flowers:jafyk said:
jafyk
Master Don Juan
J Roc said:
Lol, come on man you know that's not what I mean. Don't you feel good when you are showing a gal a good time? Honestly if I had the money and the person (girl or guy) isn't just around for a freebie I'd hook them up. All, the same I don't ever recall taking a girl I ha just met our for dinner let alone an expensive one. This story also shows you that sometimes men's ego an ignorance gets the better of them sometime. I don't know if this is the same story but in a similar story one of the guys bought a $200 bottle wine. Who knows maybe this girl sleeps with some of her dates. You can't say she doesn't have a sexual need as well.
"After spending lavishly, "You'd think a guy would try to kiss you or get something back," she said. "I have yet to hold hands or let someone put their arm around me.""jafyk said:
Did you even read the article? She specifically looked on match.com for men specifically with extremely high salaries, did not even let one of those men touch her and in the onen time she was asked to pay:
"One time a guy did ask her to split the bill. That was not received well, she said.
"I just looked at him, in such shock," she said. "And he was like, 'Oh, or you could just get it next time.' Mentally I was like, 'No, never again, this guy is crossed out.'""
So what ended up happening is once she was asked to split, she put on a look of "such shock" and she SHAMED the man into paying the whole thing ANYWAYS. Reading comprehension try it sometime. The arguments you are trying to make in this thread make no sense.
jafyk
Master Don Juan
Well, I see why you disagree with me. When I first heard about this issue. I watched it on yahoo news and it's true that it is appalling (I agree). However, people who responded to the OP made it seem that you never pay for a woman. That was what I mostly based my response to. I did skim through the article and saw a place the lady said she would pay if the guy asked. Anyway, these men are victims of their ego and ignorance. This is why we must give the gift of sosuave to as many men as we can with the hope that the light bulb will come on.
I believe it was somewhere on sosuave that I read that guys should stop trying to buy a woman's affection and instead learn attraction. A lot of men are victims because they are ignorant and proud. Have you as a single guy ever tried to give advise to perhaps a married guy and they look at you like you don't know what you are talking about just because they got married and you didn't?
I believe it was somewhere on sosuave that I read that guys should stop trying to buy a woman's affection and instead learn attraction. A lot of men are victims because they are ignorant and proud. Have you as a single guy ever tried to give advise to perhaps a married guy and they look at you like you don't know what you are talking about just because they got married and you didn't?
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
SgtSplacker
Master Don Juan
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The paying for a date thing is a bear. Theres alot you can do to make this manageable. Me? I don't pay for any lady I dont want to bed. I don't pay for any lady that I don't think wants to bed me. I don't spend any real cash until I have figured this stuff out. Now as far as drinks go i'll pay for a couple drinks. I understand drinks can get expensive but I damage control here by picking the place (with drinks under $5) and since were trying to get to know each other we should not be chugging alcohol so the tab should not go too expensive. Cheaper places have lower prices and tend to not be so busy so you can focus on each other more it's more intimate. Maybe i'll just drink $2-3 beers and let her have what she wants. If we do start drinking alot i'll allow myself to get a little sexual and see where it's going. If she's not receptive then i'll end the night early. I keep my bar at home decent and always have the fixins for things girls like (martinis, bloody marys, wine) I don't buy complete strangers drinks like at a club or something, ever. A little creativity goes a long way with dating. Check whats local on meetup.com, theres groups there that are all about the cheap.
Basically you dont just want to pick a nice spot walk in and let her do what she wants while your picking up the tab, the night requires a little guidance and direction. If I see she is getting a little looser i'll buy as many drinks as we can get down. But if she's not really receptive i'll drink light tell her i'm on a diet or something, and ditch early. If i'm really tight i'll tell her I have to be up early tomorrow and end it quick. I usually try to avoid dinner anyways it just gets you full and tired and your still gonna want to have a couple drinks after. With food in your stomach you need more alcohol anyways, so I really try to avoid it if were not sexual already. So if I invite a lady out it's usually for drinks and thats it maybe an appetizer. Buying full dinner I reserve for the women I am already bedding, otherwise it makes more sense to just go out for drinks. And expensive dinners are definitely reserved for special women. I consider a normal dinner under $50 for both including drinks. If shes not the kind of girl that understands that I dont really want to burn $200 on a night it's best she sees the door early anyways. Avoiding alcohol altogether is the best thing you can do to stay on the cheap. I love a dinner date, keep a cooler in the car with alcohol, then head out to the beach. Girls love to see you are surprising them planning cool stuff. Take a girl to the beach and bust out a blanket and a cooler fill of wine is a good panty dropper. I'm not rich and even if I was I don't like being pressured to spend money.
I like sexual women so if I see shes not outwardly sexual I am generally disinterested. Anyways sluts like to drink so that works out well sometimes and prudes would rather have a mose sensible night. I play on these facts.
Basically you dont just want to pick a nice spot walk in and let her do what she wants while your picking up the tab, the night requires a little guidance and direction. If I see she is getting a little looser i'll buy as many drinks as we can get down. But if she's not really receptive i'll drink light tell her i'm on a diet or something, and ditch early. If i'm really tight i'll tell her I have to be up early tomorrow and end it quick. I usually try to avoid dinner anyways it just gets you full and tired and your still gonna want to have a couple drinks after. With food in your stomach you need more alcohol anyways, so I really try to avoid it if were not sexual already. So if I invite a lady out it's usually for drinks and thats it maybe an appetizer. Buying full dinner I reserve for the women I am already bedding, otherwise it makes more sense to just go out for drinks. And expensive dinners are definitely reserved for special women. I consider a normal dinner under $50 for both including drinks. If shes not the kind of girl that understands that I dont really want to burn $200 on a night it's best she sees the door early anyways. Avoiding alcohol altogether is the best thing you can do to stay on the cheap. I love a dinner date, keep a cooler in the car with alcohol, then head out to the beach. Girls love to see you are surprising them planning cool stuff. Take a girl to the beach and bust out a blanket and a cooler fill of wine is a good panty dropper. I'm not rich and even if I was I don't like being pressured to spend money.
I like sexual women so if I see shes not outwardly sexual I am generally disinterested. Anyways sluts like to drink so that works out well sometimes and prudes would rather have a mose sensible night. I play on these facts.
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Feel free to pay for her all you want, AFTER she's had sex with you
Until she's had sex with you, she's done nothing for you.
We already know that doing things for her (like buying dinner) doesn't cause her to give us sex.
We also know that some women who will never in a million years let us touch them will let us take them out for free dinners.
Its all about protecting yourself. If you let a woman lead you on so she can get free stuff and you allow it, its not her fault - its yours.
Until she's had sex with you, she's done nothing for you.
We already know that doing things for her (like buying dinner) doesn't cause her to give us sex.
We also know that some women who will never in a million years let us touch them will let us take them out for free dinners.
Its all about protecting yourself. If you let a woman lead you on so she can get free stuff and you allow it, its not her fault - its yours.
honest answer, yes. I'll buy friends anything, but its usually under the premise that ' I got this time, you get next'. I've done this with friends who are struggling financially too.jafyk said:
I decided once to try diner out, and paid for it all. First time, and last time for that. Worst choice ever. Another time I went out for a bite, the chick up and paid for half without asking. So I have mixed experiences here. If she steps up and does half on our first meeting though , thats a huge bonus for her.
And yes i'll buy chick friends whom I have no intention of sleeping with a drink. But I do this with guy friends too. Lesson? It pays to be my friend when I am in a good mood =)
Iceberg
Master Don Juan
Agreed. Paying for a beer or 3 amounts to what? $15 bucks? I can live with that.Espi said:
I don't mind paying for booze. It loosens everyone up and gets the conversation going.
Dinner, on the other hand, just slows everything down. Not to mention...why would I feed some broad I barely know.
women can't play the traditional card when it comes to a man having to pay for her, and have her argument stand up to scruntiny
women get away with these type of nonsensical "chick logic" arguments because they are rarely challenged
the girl in the article defended using guys for free food as her "being traditional"
if she was traditional, she would have a dowry and her marriage would be arranged, and she would be married off by the time she was 16
HARDLY ANY WOMAN IN AMERICA TODAY IS "TRADITIONAL"
sure, there are exceptions (the amish or whatever), but in general the women you meet are in no ways traditional
she works = non-traditional
she has sex out of wedlock = non-traditional
she went to college = non-traditional
she waits into her 30's to have children or doesn't have them at all = non-traditional
A WOMAN EXPECTING YOU TO PAY HER WAY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PENIS IS ENGAGING IN SEXISM AGAINST YOU. YOU ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BASED ON YOUR GENDER.
If you truly want to pay for her, go right ahead. But we all know that a high percentage of the time the man is paying simply because he's too much of a wuss to expect her to pay her own way. Instead he seeks to avoid a potentially tense confrontation instead of letting his principle be known and sticking to that principle. Ironically, women tend to respond most powerfully to men who stick to their principles even when it causes that man pain and discomfort.
The women are liberated. With power comes responsibility. Part of that is paying her half of the date.
"Tradition" is a man having to pay a woman's way because she is treated like a child with almost no rights. She can't vote, she can't own property, she can't have a job. The woman had no means in the past to pay her own way. That's tradition.
Personally I'm glad its changed. But for her to expect me to do ANYTHING because of "tradition" is ridiculous.
women get away with these type of nonsensical "chick logic" arguments because they are rarely challenged
the girl in the article defended using guys for free food as her "being traditional"
if she was traditional, she would have a dowry and her marriage would be arranged, and she would be married off by the time she was 16
HARDLY ANY WOMAN IN AMERICA TODAY IS "TRADITIONAL"
sure, there are exceptions (the amish or whatever), but in general the women you meet are in no ways traditional
she works = non-traditional
she has sex out of wedlock = non-traditional
she went to college = non-traditional
she waits into her 30's to have children or doesn't have them at all = non-traditional
A WOMAN EXPECTING YOU TO PAY HER WAY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PENIS IS ENGAGING IN SEXISM AGAINST YOU. YOU ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BASED ON YOUR GENDER.
If you truly want to pay for her, go right ahead. But we all know that a high percentage of the time the man is paying simply because he's too much of a wuss to expect her to pay her own way. Instead he seeks to avoid a potentially tense confrontation instead of letting his principle be known and sticking to that principle. Ironically, women tend to respond most powerfully to men who stick to their principles even when it causes that man pain and discomfort.
The women are liberated. With power comes responsibility. Part of that is paying her half of the date.
"Tradition" is a man having to pay a woman's way because she is treated like a child with almost no rights. She can't vote, she can't own property, she can't have a job. The woman had no means in the past to pay her own way. That's tradition.
Personally I'm glad its changed. But for her to expect me to do ANYTHING because of "tradition" is ridiculous.
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.