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Why the Gym will make you more of an Incel than a player

Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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I did, and it's still ridiculous.

"The only thing that turns women on is your abs, not your biceps"
"Instead of understanding and learning from your mistakes and setbacks with women, you just go to the gym and repeat the same problems"

It sounds like you lost a girl to some jacked dude and now you're coming here for validation that he's probably an incel.

I never thought I would ever see somebody on a pick-up forum talk down about people who go to the gym - for whatever reason. It is the single most valuable and beneficial decision I've ever made in my life, and has affected me in so many positive ways as a result.

Health and fitness, at its core, is a form of self-improvement, regardless of the motivation. To see you demonize it is really disappointing.

The fact that you've been on this forum for a little over a year and have almost double the posts as me paints a picture to me of the kind of person you are; somebody who overthinks things rather than does things and is a textbook example of a keyboard warrior.

Any young men reading this thread, please do not let this idiot talk you out of deciding to get fit - even if you started because you want to get girls.
Well, I guess I am the biggest hypocrite ever because I work out 5 times a week and go to one of those expensive luxury gyms. In addition, I met my current main girl at my gym so even a bigger whammy against me. I can tell that you are emotionally distraught because I hit a nerve somewhere with my OP. Calm down first then I can have a rational discussion with you.
 

SW15

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I can break down the original post now with a clear mind, even though I don't think much of the gymcel concept.

the first piece of advice you receive on getting laid is to hit the gym. At glance, this sounds reasonable because muscles mean healthy and strong, but this is one of the worst things you can do to get women. Now, if you are a fat Pilsbury dough boy looking mofo then yes go to the gym, but if you are relatively skinny then you might want to pump the breaks a bit. You are much better off pursuing a hobby/lifestyle rather than going to Gold's Gym 3-4 hours a day. There's a reason the largest incel community was MISC on bodybuilding forums.com before it got shutdown. Now, if you love the gym then continue going to the gym. My only stance is that going to the gym for the sole purpose of attracting more women is completely stupid.
If you're out of shape, you're not going to get laid. Women have too many choices now. That part is accurate.

You can get laid if you're fit enough. However, with women having more choices now than ever, the threshold of what it would take in terms of fitness to get laid is higher.

1). Women do not give two fvcks about how much you can bench press or your muscles. The only thing that turns a woman on is your abs, not your biceps. Notice all of the Fitness guys on YouTube don't have attractive girlfriends lol. In addition, the girls that workout on the same level as these guys aren't that attractive either, so I will give them that benefit of the doubt.

I get way more girls being 10-12% BF, maintaining a cool haircut, and dressing appropriately vs when I was 18%-22% benching 315 lb
Abs are better than big muscles. You want to have some combination of abs and muscularity.

2). It eventually turns in to a cope rather than an asset. Get rejected by a girl, I'm going to hit the gym (blast manosphere shvt on your airpods lol). Get dumped by a plate, I'm going to hit the gym. Instead of understanding and learning from your mistakes and setbacks with women, you just go to the gym and repeat the same problems.
Unless you have a near outlier level of fitness, fitness alone won't get your penis wet. It needs to be combined with some other things.

4). Unrelatable to most women- So your daily routine is to spend 1-2 hours in the gym, eat chicken breast, rice, broccoli, and protein powder every day, and you are an Andrew Tate/Fresh and Fit representative. How the fvck is any woman supposed to emotionally connect with you? You might be able to pull some bimbo looking or a quick fvck or wanting a break from the streets, but you will not be able to keep a normal girl. You are basically male equivalent of a girl that just goes to bars and clubs and parties 4-5 nights a week. Ironically, these are the only type of women y'all seem to go on dates with lol.
Let's say a guy has big muscles and gets sex from a party gal. How is this is a problem? It isn't. Party gals are often under 27 women with nice enough bodies.
 

BPH

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Well, I guess I am the biggest hypocrite ever because I work out 5 times a week and go to one of those expensive luxury gyms. In addition, I met my current main girl at my gym so even a bigger whammy against me. I can tell that you are emotionally distraught because I hit a nerve somewhere with my OP. Calm down first then I can have a rational discussion with you.
The nerve you hit is you're giving absolutely garbage advice to young guys who will read this and justify your moronic hot-take as an excuse to avoid difficulty - ie lifting weights and getting fit.

I don't care how often you work out or where you go to do it. I don't care that you met your girl at the gym, I've met several girls at the gym.

But to say there is ANY negative associated with working out, regardless of the motivation, is absolutely asinine.

I don't need to have a conversation with you, there's no point. I'm just telling the people that stumble across this that your high post count and reaction score is definitely NOT an indicator of your awareness when it comes to women.
 

Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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The nerve you hit is you're giving absolutely garbage advice to young guys who will read this and justify your moronic hot-take as an excuse to avoid difficulty - ie lifting weights and getting fit.

I don't care how often you work out or where you go to do it. I don't care that you met your girl at the gym, I've met several girls at the gym.

But to say there is ANY negative associated with working out, regardless of the motivation, is absolutely asinine.

I don't need to have a conversation with you, there's no point. I'm just telling the people that stumble across this that your high post count and reaction score is definitely NOT an indicator of your awareness when it comes to women.
Is the gym your messiah or something? Dang dude..

Let's say a guy has big muscles and gets sex from a party gal. How is this is a problem? It isn't. Party gals are often under 27 women with nice enough bodies.
It depends if you are just looking for sex or not. If yes, then this ain't a problem. If no, then this will be a problem because you will never have a healthy relationship with a party girl. Eventually she's going to get bored and want to try out the streets again. It's going to be extremely hard for a gymcel to relate to normal women because of his lifestyle and the things he follows on the internet from the redpill pipeline.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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Did you read my Op? I literally said to workout for you if you enjoy it. I never said working out was unhealthy anywhere in my post otherwise I would be a huge hypocrite. All I said was that gymcels use the gym as a cope instead of developing their game, personality, career, and etc. If you are struggling with women, then going to the gym and building muscles will more than likely make your situation worse than make it better.
Of course I read your post, I referenced it, and like I said, for it to have any footing it relies on outliers, of which by definition there are few. You have to quantify what constitutes a gymcel, which apparently involves judging almost all facets of a person's life. Given the number of variables involved, you can't possibly come to a conclusion like 'if you're struggling with women the gym will probably make things worse.' it's a dangerous and frankly nonsensical oversimplification in most cases.

It's your opinion, not at all grounded in fact unless you can point to some stats or at least provide logic that involves the average person, not some extreme stereotype group that constitutes a very small part of the population.

We both know that in at least 90% of cases, especially in America where most people are overweight, going to the gym will absolutely increase the chances of scoring women given that man makes routine attempts. Concluding the exact opposite and saying that's true for all or even most people (as your statement implies) is ridiculous.
 

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Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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We both know that in at least 90% of cases, especially in America where most people are overweight, going to the gym will absolutely increase the chances of scoring women given that man makes routine attempts. Concluding the exact opposite and saying that's true for all or even most people (as your statement implies) is ridiculous.
Now, if you are a fat Pilsbury dough boy looking mofo then yes go to the gym, but if you are relatively skinny then you might want to pump the breaks a bit.

Of course I read your post, I referenced it, and like I said, for it to have any footing it relies on outliers, of which by definition there are few. You have to quantify what constitutes a gymcel, which apparently involves judging almost all facets of a person's life. Given the number of variables involved, you can't possibly come to a conclusion like 'if you're struggling with women the gym will probably make things worse.' it's a dangerous and frankly nonsensical oversimplification in most cases.
 

thermodynamic

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Now, if you are a fat Pilsbury dough boy looking mofo then yes go to the gym, but if you are relatively skinny then you might want to pump the breaks a bit.



How do we know you aren't coping with the fact that your making slow progress in the gym. :rofl:
 

Chowdah

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Jake my man, just take the knee. All good, you provide some good insights that I don’t really bother to read. You can circlejerk with the other theory-crafting dudes
 

EyeOnThePrize

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Now, if you are a fat Pilsbury dough boy looking mofo then yes go to the gym, but if you are relatively skinny then you might want to pump the breaks a bit.



Now, if you are a fat Pilsbury dough boy looking mofo then yes go to the gym, but if you are relatively skinny then you might want to pump the breaks a bit.



Should I respond by quoting my previous posts too? At least expand on your point or paraphrase lol so lazy.

Those definitions refer not just to men that spend countless hours in the gym, but men that also have ugly faces or less intelligence or less attractive bone structure lol. Yeah if we cherry pick terrible qualities for men and combine them, that man will have a harder time attracting women by simply going to the gym, no shiit lol but you need to realize that's an even smaller set of men than your initial post, which was small to begin with. You keep putting yourself in a smaller box, now we're talking about the extreme of the extreme, it's an extremely weak argument.

Oh and not only does a gymcel have to have an ugly face, low IQ, and bad bone structure, they also have to have this really specific mindset where they do nothing else to improve their chances of scoring. Like wtf are you talking about at that point? That's like one guy out of a million.

One of the reasons I go to the gym is because I know it gives me an edge with women that like muscles, does that make me a gymcel? Or am I not a gymcel depending my IQ or the length of certain bones in my body or my mindset? Where is the line? It just gets stupid quick man.

No offense but unless you have some substance instead of these misleading and time wasting opinions, I'm done here. I don't think you want to have a discussion or admit how nonsensical this is, seems like you have mad confirmation bias.
 

Zimbabwe

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One of the reasons I go to the gym is because I know it gives me an edge with women that like muscles, does that make me a gymcel? Or am I not a gymcel depending my IQ or the length of certain bones in my body or my mindset?
OP does bring up a good point though, I go gym 6 days a week for about an hour a day. If you want to get a really good physique and maintain it, you need to be ready to commit a lot of time to it. It took me 2 years of consistent hard work/dieting to get to my goal body.

Getting muscles is good, but one thing a lot of gymcels neglect is working on their social skills. You meet women by putting yourself into contact with social groups on a regular basis.

Most girls are not even going to see how great your body is until you have səx anyways.
 

Pierce.Manhammer

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I will chime in: being someone who came late to lifting in my mid-thirties (now in my fifties), I can tell you after 10 years of natty lifting I put on - If trending body fat vs lean mass metering - 38lbs of muscle. I went from 158 lean to 200lbs at 10% bf, previously my body fat was high but I was not obese. I went from a 38/40 waist to a 30/32.

I’ve slayed my lot and women always have noticed my physique and commented on it. From omg I love your arms, back, abs, belt of Adonis, ass, thighs, legs bit always arms/abs, shoulders. They LOVE MY PHYSIQUE.

It even changes the way men relate to you. You come across as disciplined and dangerous, able to protect etc. all chick crack. Women love muscular men, and not one man on this thread saying otherwise must be muscular.

I was attractive before, not as tall as I’d like but guys that are 6’2 225 decide it’s best not to tangle with me because they may prevail but they know I’d fawk them up on the way down.

Lift heavy things men. Optimize your physique- it works. Optimize All of yourself, every way possible.

If you optimize your physique and it’s not getting you laid you neglected something else about yourself or You’re and arsehole or whatever else. A body alone may get you a ONS but if you’re a turd with not personality, intelligence, motivation, career etc thats All it will be.
 
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IKO69

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There are jacked guys that are insecure, that isn't an excuse to not work out tho. This reminds me of a college friend I had, Vinny. He was once a "skinny loser with no self esteem" as he put it. When I met him he looked decent he had been working out for about a year and a half. We would go out to meet girls. Sometimes chicks would go for him and they would mention his physique, he still blew it with a lot of them. Reason being he was largely the same guy but with muscles. The problem was the mind, it hadn't caught up to the body.

Women definitely desire the body. To say otherwise is akin to saying tits and ass doesn't contribute one iota to a females attractiveness. Attractive, confident women will appear to he more unphased- some will even dismiss a guys physique, treat it as if it means nothing(guys that just rely on their looks fold at this point). See it for what it is, its a manipulation tactic. They want the body but also want the whole package ie a confident, charming, ambitious fit man. They don't want to be duped by some gym rat socially awkward loser that has nothing else going for him.

No one is suggesting going to the gym two to three times a day, looking up everything you eat/counting each calorie, shoot roids like an ifbb bodybuilder. No need for that but any self respecting male will take up some form of exercise and yes it will make him more attractive by default.
 

SW15

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I go gym 6 days a week for about an hour a day. If you want to get a really good physique and maintain it, you need to be ready to commit a lot of time to it. It took me 2 years of consistent hard work/dieting to get to my goal body.
That is an impressive amount of time in the gym. I think that's worth doing.

Getting muscles is good, but one thing a lot of gymcels neglect is working on their social skills. You meet women by putting yourself into contact with social groups on a regular basis.
If you have big muscles and ripped abs, you don't need as good of social skills in order to get laid. The problem might be that there are enough people with big enough muscles but extremely poor social skills, even below the lower threshold of social skills needed when big muscles are present.

Meeting women at the gym is challenging.

When considering the general gym floor environment, the majority of women are in their own worlds with their earbuds and oblivious to stuff. It's possible to get attention from women at the gym if your physique is really good. They might get out of their earbuds world if that's the case. That won't be reality even for the majority of fit men.

The best workaround to the earbud problem if you're part of the majority of men at the gym is going to fitness classes at the gym or a separate class-based fitness concept. Fitness classes are less about building big muscles though. The big chain gyms like 24 Hour, LA Fitness, Lifetime, and Equinox all have classes. Then, there are class-based concepts like a SoulCycle or Title Boxing. Ratios are generally good at these classes and better than the general gym floor, especially in the weights area of the gym. Fitness class approaching isn't the easiest thing either. You have a 5 minute window before/after a fitness class to strike up a conversation and get a number. It's easiest to do it after class as compared to before class. During the 45-60 minute class, you can make strong eye contact and smile to try to assess who is most approachable. Even when you do all of this, it's no guarantee of anything because a lot of women aren't social with strangers at fitness classes.

There are jacked guys that are insecure, that isn't an excuse to not work out tho. This reminds me of a college friend I had, Vinny. He was once a "skinny loser with no self esteem" as he put it. When I met him he looked decent he had been working out for about a year and a half. We would go out to meet girls. Sometimes chicks would go for him and they would mention his physique, he still blew it with a lot of them. Reason being he was largely the same guy but with muscles. The problem was the mind, it hadn't caught up to the body.
Vinny seems like one of those guys with zero social skills. As I said earlier, you don't need as much charisma when you have big muscles, but there's a baseline of charisma needed even when big muscles are present, and he didn't have it.

Women definitely desire the body. To say otherwise is akin to saying tits and ass doesn't contribute one iota to a females attractiveness. Attractive, confident women will appear to he more unphased- some will even dismiss a guys physique, treat it as if it means nothing(guys that just rely on their looks fold at this point). See it for what it is, its a manipulation tactic. They want the body but also want the whole package ie a confident, charming, ambitious fit man. They don't want to be duped by some gym rat socially awkward loser that has nothing else going for him.

No need for that but any self respecting male will take up some form of exercise and yes it will make him more attractive by default.
This is all accurate. Big tits and a great ass will attract me, even more than personality. The big tits and great ass need to be a part of a woman who isn't overweight.

Even Vinny with muscles and zero charisma was better off than Vinny with no muscles and no charisma.

Let's say a guy has big muscles and gets sex from a party gal. How is this is a problem? It isn't. Party gals are often under 27 women with nice enough bodies.
It depends if you are just looking for sex or not. If yes, then this ain't a problem. If no, then this will be a problem because you will never have a healthy relationship with a party girl. Eventually she's going to get bored and want to try out the streets again. It's going to be extremely hard for a gymcel to relate to normal women because of his lifestyle and the things he follows on the internet from the redpill pipeline.
I agree that men need to tone down red pill commentary around most women. Going full red pill or black pill isn't attractive. Subtle red pill is acceptable.

If a guy can get party women for sex, that's an achievement. Also, all relationships have a shelf life of goodness. The shelf life is likely shorter with a party gal, but even regular women have a shelf life of goodness. Trying to put a ring on a party gal is a bad idea and there are men who try that. Some party gals are good about exiting interactions before a man is silly enough to try that.

If a man has big muscles and isn't getting laid, could part of the problem be a marketing problem? Perhaps he's targeting the wrong behavioral group? Maybe he needs to focus more on women who live for the gym and partying. Sex and shorter term relationships with those women seems like a good solution. As said earlier, some small level of social skills are needed for that attraction-seduction.
 

Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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One of the reasons I go to the gym is because I know it gives me an edge with women that like muscles, does that make me a gymcel? Or am I not a gymcel depending my IQ or the length of certain bones in my body or my mindset? Where is the line? It just gets stupid quick man.
Now, if you love the gym then continue going to the gym. My only stance is that going to the gym for the sole purpose of attracting more women is completely stupid.

Those definitions refer not just to men that spend countless hours in the gym, but men that also have ugly faces or less intelligence or less attractive bone structure lol. Yeah if we cherry pick terrible qualities for men and combine them, that man will have a harder time attracting women by simply going to the gym, no shiit lol but you need to realize that's an even smaller set of men than your initial post, which was small to begin with. You keep putting yourself in a smaller box, now we're talking about the extreme of the extreme, it's an extremely weak argument.

Oh and not only does a gymcel have to have an ugly face, low IQ, and bad bone structure, they also have to have this really specific mindset where they do nothing else to improve their chances of scoring. Like wtf are you talking about at that point? That's like one guy out of a million.
Urban dictionary is meant to be cominical, but I will give you a real answer. A gymcel is an Incel that uses the gym to mask his insecurities with life and women plain and simple. How is this possible? I already explained it in my OP, but you only cherry pick and say "YOU SAID THE GYM IS BAD FOR YOU" and go on long tangents about it. Essentially, it can lead a vulnerable man down a pipeline to the path of an Incel because he was merely having issues with women. I never said do not go to the gym, I said "DO NOT GO TO THE GYM FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF ATTRACTING WOMEN" which will you keep you from sliding down this incel pipeline. If you have issues on what an Incel believes than go take that out with them not me.
 

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Now, if you are a fat Pilsbury dough boy looking mofo then yes go to the gym, but if you are relatively skinny then you might want to pump the breaks a bit.
Shut the hell up. I was skinny. I went to the gym. My weight went from 150 to 180. All muscle. My social attraction shot through the roof from both sexes. It helped people take me more seriously, increased my income, and everything else.

No, this is a cringe thread and I hope others are smart enough to notice it too.
 

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Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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Shut the hell up. I was skinny. I went to the gym. My weight went from 150 to 180. All muscle. My social attraction shot through the roof from both sexes. It helped people take me more seriously, increased my income, and everything else.

No, this is a cringe thread and I hope others are smart enough to notice it too.
I swear I am arguing with cultists right now lol. You literally prove my point with your attraction to questionably aged girls picked up through the incel pipeline.
 

Jake_Gyllenhaal69

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I will make this statement and say that the gym used to be a good first avenue for men, but the pills have heavily hijacked it and it turned it in to a preliminary Red pill Intro university class. When I started, you had pre red pill Elliot Hulse, The Hodge twins, and etc. Now you have a lot of adults living in their mom's house working out which is completely unrelatable and bodybuilding channels that are actually 75% red pill, 25% working out.
 

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If you have big muscles and ripped abs, you don't need as good of social skills in order to get laid. The problem might be that there are enough people with big enough muscles but extremely poor social skills, even below the lower threshold of social skills needed when big muscles are present.
I live in Sydney, ZYZZ Gym culture started here, just about every second guy is ripped. I don't think america is that much far behind though, you guys Also have a large gym scene.

Even when you do all of this, it's no guarantee of anything because a lot of women aren't social with strangers at fitness classes.
Most people from what I have seen, just get in there and get out. It's not an environment that really tends to lead to socialisation. I have also seen people recommend mixed gender sports but I imagine that those wouldn't lead to much mingling either.

We need to discuss some strategies over inbox
 

Pierce.Manhammer

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Jake, so often in life we have a situation like this - where individuals are discussing a situation from two different angles - they are in effect saying the same thing - but somehow it turns into an argument. I'm sure most people who have an IQ higher than room temperature have noticed this.

Then egos get involved and it becomes a shyte show.

When I have started conversations with someone and it goes this way and I recognize what's going on I often rephrase my initial statement - it's the same content, it's just more tailored to the audience. This often works.

Here at SS, I've learned that over time we have so many different personalities, backgrounds, socio-economic levels, experience levels, ethnicities, religions, and politics that it becomes a labyrinth sometimes when navigating lightning rod subjects.

I think if you simply rephrase your initial stance a little most of us would agree with your statement as we have noted.

I will make this statement and say that the gym used to be a good first avenue for men, but the pills have heavily hijacked it and it turned it in to a preliminary Red pill Intro university class. When I started, you had pre red pill Elliot Hulse, The Hodge twins, and etc. Now you have a lot of adults living in their mom's house working out which is completely unrelatable and bodybuilding channels that are actually 75% red pill, 25% working out.
 

SW15

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We need to discuss some strategies over inbox
Send me a PM about this then.

Most people from what I have seen, just get in there and get out. It's not an environment that really tends to lead to socialisation. I have also seen people recommend mixed gender sports but I imagine that those wouldn't lead to much mingling either.
I can agree with your comments about socialization with fitness classes. How much experience do you have with co-ed sports leagues? I have some and have shared my thoughts multiple times on it. The search function will lead to that. With co-ed sports leagues, the majority of socialization occurs at the sponsor bar after the game. The game itself has little socialization. Your outcomes in co-ed sports leagues depend upon what happens at the sponsor bar. In some leagues, the park/field/court is adjacent/walking distance to the sponsor bar.

It is difficult to randomly swoop into a league and start arranging dates. It's a form of weak social circle game. Mostly every guy in league is a guy trying to get his penis wet through participating in league. Few married guys or guys with girlfriends do co-ed sports leagues. Some marrieds/LTR guys will participate in the co-ed sports league with their girlfriend or wife, but that's less common.
 
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