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Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

BackInTheGame78

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Update on Mystery...

 

MatureDJ

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... Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent.
I am a Gen-Xer, and I can say that the dark cloud of inceldom started to make itself known in the mid-90s.
 

MatureDJ

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They cracked the code back in the day, but today much more nuance is required. Never before has an IDGAF attitude been so important. Most men today broadcast that they are beggars. It’s on them like body odor. It permeates the air around them.

The bottom line though (and most men are blind to this), chasing the P is an exercise in dissipation on so many different levels. It diminishes men and completely destroys women. The most intimate act between a man and a woman has become such a cheap commodity that real relationships are all but impossible. There will be no reversal.
I find that the only solution for me not to be in beg-mode is to EscortMax.
 

MatureDJ

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Now granted, some PUAs are genuinely psycho and do not need to be out there. Sasha was a buffoon who set the game community back years by harassing women on the streets. That one Pakistani guy in Scotland that got arrested was an idiot.
Do you have links to the stories about these PUAs?
 

SW15

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I am a Gen-Xer, and I can say that the dark cloud of inceldom started to make itself known in the mid-90s.
It's possible it had beginnings then. That's why Strauss was a unique case as a 1969 birth. Strauss was a 1990s incel before getting immersed in the whole pickup culture. Part of the reason that Strauss was a 1990s incel was his height. Strauss is only 5'6". Most men below 5'8" are incel or experience sexual scarcity for extended periods of time. This is especially true for White men, who are generally taller than Hispanic men. Hispanic men can get away with being shorter since Hispanics in general are shorter.

Rates of male sexlessness didn't increase substantially until the high speed internet era of the 2000s and smartphone/app era of the 2010s. That's when incels and men experiencing long sexual droughts became more mainstream. Additionally, biological sex ratios started to become more unfavorable to men in the 2000s.

In the 21st Century, we're seeing more married men getting less sex than they were in the past too, which is a dangerous trend. After a certain point in a marriage, marital sex becomes infrequent. To an actual incel, married men in 3-5+ year long marriages only having sex 1-2 times a month doesn't sound too bad, but it is a lousy deal for the married man. The married men has to put up with a bunch of marital bullshiit for limited sex, whereas single men getting little to no sex have complete freedom over their lives.

A lot of men who become interested in PUA content have substandard sex lives and are looking to improve.
 

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HaleyBaron

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It's possible it had beginnings then. That's why Strauss was a unique case as a 1969 birth. Strauss was a 1990s incel before getting immersed in the whole pickup culture. Part of the reason that Strauss was a 1990s incel was his height. Strauss is only 5'6". Most men below 5'8" are incel or experience sexual scarcity for extended periods of time. This is especially true for White men, who are generally taller than Hispanic men. Hispanic men can get away with being shorter since Hispanics in general are shorter.

Rates of male sexlessness didn't increase substantially until the high speed internet era of the 2000s and smartphone/app era of the 2010s. That's when incels and men experiencing long sexual droughts became more mainstream. Additionally, biological sex ratios started to become more unfavorable to men in the 2000s.

In the 21st Century, we're seeing more married men getting less sex than they were in the past too, which is a dangerous trend. After a certain point in a marriage, marital sex becomes infrequent. To an actual incel, married men in 3-5+ year long marriages only having sex 1-2 times a month doesn't sound too bad, but it is a lousy deal for the married man. The married men has to put up with a bunch of marital bullshiit for limited sex, whereas single men getting little to no sex have complete freedom over their lives.

A lot of men who become interested in PUA content have substandard sex lives and are looking to improve.
The reason isn't because of the internet. Kids in general are growing up less social and men more effeminate, while girls are becoming more autistic in their social calibration despite women supposedly being the stronger social gender. People say it's video games, but it's mostly just the safe space nature of schools and laws that are making boys be less of boys with discouragement of causing ruckus and girls are being taught to be "empowered" something no girl biologically or mentally wants to do. It's reverse world and it's f*cking everything up.
 

SW15

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The reason isn't because of the internet. Kids in general are growing up less social and men more effeminate, while girls are becoming more autistic in their social calibration despite women supposedly being the stronger social gender. People say it's video games, but it's mostly just the safe space nature of schools and laws that are making boys be less of boys with discouragement of causing ruckus and girls are being taught to be "empowered" something no girl biologically or mentally wants to do. It's reverse world and it's f*cking everything up.
I didn't say it was the internet though the rise of the internet occurred at the same time as the rise of inceldom.

I agree that women are getting more autistic in their socialization. In general, women still have stronger social skills than men. In some of my social spheres, I've seen socially inept, educated White women. My best friend's wife claimed a few years ago that she'd never been approached in a grocery store. That seemed false to me. She was probably about 30-31 when she made that claim and in her early to mid 20s, she was borderline cute-hot. It had to have happened, she was just too socially autistic to realize it. Some other White women who ran in the same circle as the woman I just mentioned are comparable in their social ineptitude, but all have found long term boyfriends and husbands.

I perceive that male effemininity is more pronounced in White men than non-White men.

Culture has not socialized boys effectively since at least the onset of the 1990s, when the Millennials were small children. There are now 35-40 year Millennial males who never learned how to be men through traditional social means. A lot of men lacked good father figures and were raised by single moms to be docile beta males. Schools didn't effectively handle bullying.

Video games and internet porn didn't help either.

I have seen PUA as a good thing. I have seen the PUA movemnt help men that didn't get socialized properly. However, PUA was more of a Gen X thing than a Gen Y/Millennial thing. Most of the PUA leaders were Gen X'ers like Torero, Strauss, Mystery, and Roosh. Rollo Tomassi is also a Gen X'er. It's more difficult to name a major PUA or Manosphere voice coming out of the Millennial cohort.
 

HaleyBaron

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I will admit porn really, really shook things up.
 

SW15

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I will admit porn really, really shook things up.
Internet porn via high speed internet really shook things up. Porn had been around for a long time before high speed internet became more prevalent. Playboy had been around going back to the 1950s. VHS porn started around the late 1970s.

Men turn to porn after taking multiple rejections from women in real life in most cases.

Porn is a coping mechanism. It can be used as a numbing agent. It is dangerous to dopamine and to being good at approaching and seducing. Some PUAs/Manosphere types discuss this, others do not.
 

HaleyBaron

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Internet porn via high speed internet really shook things up. Porn had been around for a long time before high speed internet became more prevalent. Playboy had been around going back to the 1950s. VHS porn started around the late 1970s.

Men turn to porn after taking multiple rejections from women in real life in most cases.

Porn is a coping mechanism. It can be used as a numbing agent. It is dangerous to dopamine and to being good at approaching and seducing. Some PUAs/Manosphere types discuss this, others do not.
Let's be honest: if hookers were legal, it would be a whole different ballgame here in the USA. It's still a shamed practice, too, so not many men who cant get regular sex can even go somewhere legal to get their frustration out. So men have to go to shady places and it just hurts them in the long run. If it was not illegal, a lot of incel problems would be solved. It would also put women on notice that they now have actual competition.
 

BillyPilgrim

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There is no benefit to chasing more and more of the same thing. It doesn't matter what it is, be it pvssy, business deals, money, gambling, drugs, etc. If you chase it too much, if you do it for the thrill and become addicted, you will eventually burn out and be miserable.

You always need to have a stopping point in mind.
I think there is a "wall" aspect to this, similar to professional athletes. You get addicted to the high of conquest/cheering fans and when that's no longer accessible (at least not at the same level, in the case of the pua), there is a withdrawal effect in addition to the burnout effect. In the pua's case, you have the factors of age in addtion to the declining SMP. It's analogous to an athlete aging out of his sport at the same time the sport itself is dwindling in popularity.
 

MatureDJ

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Internet porn via high speed internet really shook things up. Porn had been around for a long time before high speed internet became more prevalent. Playboy had been around going back to the 1950s. VHS porn started around the late 1970s.

Men turn to porn after taking multiple rejections from women in real life in most cases.
Porn is a symptom of the wasteland, not a cause of it.
 

stringpuller

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
My guess would be that when tbe RP and game is discovered that they become unrooted in what they are and try to use women to fullfill themselves.
Naturally it back fires.

It is best not to put your self worth into the games you play.
 

stringpuller

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.
Tom was legit. I was forunate to have seen some of his work before his family yanked them.
 

eli77

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Interesting that you bring up age. A lot of the well known pickup artists were Gen X'ers (1965-1980/1981 birth years)
  • Roosh (born 1979)
  • Mystery (born 1971)
  • David DeAngelo (born 1971)
  • Neil Strauss (born 1969)
Tom Torero, Caleb Jones (Blackdragon), and even Tucker Max were all born in the Gen X years.

There are many fewer big name Millennial (1981/82-1996) pickup artists. I think Austen Summers is one. Millennials are appearing to be more black pill, into porn/mbating on tube sites, or peddling NFTs than practicing attraction and seduction.
Cigarettes and video games as well
 

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eli77

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Neil and mystery seem to be pretty well off when you compare them to traditional Don Juan's and sex addicts Neil has his own podcast and is in a whole different field he has reinvented himself which is a good thing if you ever read The art of seduction or any other book by Robert Greene.
 

Gamisch

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Let's be honest: if hookers were legal, it would be a whole different ballgame here in the USA. It's still a shamed practice, too, so not many men who cant get regular sex can even go somewhere legal to get their frustration out. So men have to go to shady places and it just hurts them in the long run. If it was not illegal, a lot of incel problems would be solved. It would also put women on notice that they now have actual competition.
Nope. One could argue the IN becomes VOLcel( voluntary) but its doesnt work that way. In my region prostitution is legal but you are still dealing with a " real woman". A incel at some point becomes scared of women. He forgets what pvssy feels like and designs his life so that pvssy isnt even a necessity anymore. It also a expensive thing to do in the long run. Plus the stigma , a mans self esteem might still take hit after hit.

But most importantly; it wont fix issues with game. So let's take a regular visitor for example. He is a self proclaimed sex addict, and doesn't have to work on game now. This guy in the States would at very least do what's necessary (hit the gym, make money approach) now he can just visit a hooker and is done with it. You actually gotta be redpilled to do this consistently. Then it's a lotta fun. A blue piller will die in shame and self pity over here.

Women do offer a GFE tho( gf experience), but it will cost you a 100 bucks for 30 minutes.
 

HaleyBaron

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Nope. One could argue the IN becomes VOLcel( voluntary) but its doesnt work that way. In my region prostitution is legal but you are still dealing with a " real woman". A incel at some point becomes scared of women. He forgets what pvssy feels like and designs his life so that pvssy isnt even a necessity anymore. It also a expensive thing to do in the long run. Plus the stigma , a mans self esteem might still take hit after hit.

But most importantly; it wont fix issues with game. So let's take a regular visitor for example. He is a self proclaimed sex addict, and doesn't have to work on game now. This guy in the States would at very least do what's necessary (hit the gym, make money approach) now he can just visit a hooker and is done with it. You actually gotta be redpilled to do this consistently. Then it's a lotta fun. A blue piller will die in shame and self pity over here.

Women do offer a GFE tho( gf experience), but it will cost you a 100 bucks for 30 minutes.
They already do GFE in the form of sugar daddies and OnlyFans. So it's not like these guys aren't already use to spending the money.
 
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