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Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

SW15

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
 

zekko

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While I’m pro-PUA, it probably does attract a certain type of guy that feels something is lacking in his life. He is probably pursuing lots of puzzy to “fill a void,” not necessarily because of his sex drive per se.
This is what I think. It's not so much what PUA does to you (although that could play a part). It's more about the type of person that it attracts. As you note, it seems like there has to be a void there to fill.
 

SW15

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He is probably pursuing lots of puzzy to “fill a void,” not necessarily because of his sex drive per se.
How do you tell the difference between the two? Does the high sex drive guy end up settling for a woman and playing house?
 

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metalwater

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How do you tell the difference between the two? Does the high sex drive guy end up settling for a woman and playing house?
PUA== man is hunting women. it works.
Alpha== woman is hunting man. it works.
Beta== man and woman negotiate.

PUA is not alpha or beta but something else.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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Life isn't meant to be spent putting all of your attention in seducing women. She will still eventually see you for what you are, and if you've spent copious amounts of time and energy in attracting her for the sake of attracting then you're a fraud (coming from lack as others have mentioned).

The crazy over-analysis in PUA books is the greatest simping of all, it teaches a man how to front and chase, which implies that what he has naturally is not enough. The authors go mad because they eventually realize how backwards and hollow it is to think seduction can be taught while the foundations are ignored. Obviously when the foundation is built and seduction comes naturally, there's no need to read a book on it.
 

Juanto

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I learned so much from Tom Torero, really sad about this news.
 

eli77

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It's about social skills first and foremost I read the book The peaceful warrior and like a lot of books wish I would have read it sooner
 

eli77

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Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
Always respected neil
 

zekko

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Life isn't meant to be spent putting all of your attention in seducing women. She will still eventually see you for what you are, and if you've spent copious amounts of time and energy in attracting her for the sake of attracting then you're a fraud (coming from lack as others have mentioned).

The crazy over-analysis in PUA books is the greatest simping of all, it teaches a man how to front and chase, which implies that what he has naturally is not enough.
The best material is the stuff that focuses on the goal of making you a better man, helping you reach your peak potential in all areas. There's nothing cringe worthy about that.
 

wifehunter

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metalwater

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PUA== man is hunting women. it works.
Alpha== woman is hunting man. it works.
Beta== man and woman negotiate.

PUA is not alpha or beta but something else.
Elaborate
PUA== dude is focused on women spending and investing energy into picking up women. often they say and do things that are not helpful to the world and often cause damage around them. the mindset is to trick or convince women to be fcked by them. think beta but without offering anything back in trade. it works; women are really awalt and can be accessed. this is part of the reasons for the very strict cultural laws that are popping up to combat. at some point a guy looks for a shortcut and this is one that will work. the only place its probably cool to brag about is in SS and some dive bars. but have to stress that it works and feels much better than being incel.

Alpha== dude is moving forward or doing something about something. applying energy to affect some change if only in himself. women that want to go where that guy is going will try to hitch a ride.

Beta== dude is solid with heart and soul, following even in a noble way. he will provide for the one that scatches his back. think dog, but a good dog. his negotiation skills are key in his life, with lots of books and teachings about how to negotiate. he does not get what is fair but only what he negotiates. for example, sexual attention boundaries are a negotiation for this man.

The same man can play in all three arenas at different times.
 

IKO69

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Everybody has problems. Don't worry about others.
 

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behimo

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don't place tags on things or follow a path.
believe in yourself and do what you want to do, actions that jive with your soul.

these guys did things that corrupted their soul to get the p*ssy only to realize p*ssy couldn't save them from themselves.

the whole point of mating should be to attract, not chase or pursue.

the better you know yourself, what you're about and your values, the better you will attract the women for you.
 

SW15

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Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.
If anyone wants to know what Mystery is up to these days, his Instagram page is a good place to see it.


He is 50 with 2 daughters from a baby mama in the UK.
 

firstbornunicorn

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Most of these are narcissistic marketers that just chose pickup as their niche. Had they been born 8 years later they'd be peddling NFTs.
 

SW15

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Most of these are narcissistic marketers that just chose pickup as their niche. Had they been born 8 years later they'd be peddling NFTs.
Interesting that you bring up age. A lot of the well known pickup artists were Gen X'ers (1965-1980/1981 birth years)
  • Roosh (born 1979)
  • Mystery (born 1971)
  • David DeAngelo (born 1971)
  • Neil Strauss (born 1969)
Tom Torero, Caleb Jones (Blackdragon), and even Tucker Max were all born in the Gen X years.

There are many fewer big name Millennial (1981/82-1996) pickup artists. I think Austen Summers is one. Millennials are appearing to be more black pill, into porn/mbating on tube sites, or peddling NFTs than practicing attraction and seduction.
 

mrgoodstuff

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During their time their stuff worked, however it was able to penetrate the matrix and various social hierarchies at that time. The people in those social hierarchies aren't going to let someone outside of their group having "pull", so they all closed the doors together. It's been "shut down" or at least there is a large drive to do that and keep it that way.
 
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