Why getting to know a girl is better than just getting in her pants.

[Xavian Parrish]

Sleep with enough women and sooner or later you'll realize "ElStud" isn't really all that far off from truth. Poon is poon. When it's plentiful and easy you start to look for something else to differentiate one from the other.

The problem, ElStud, is that you know all of the talking points but don't know how to execute. What is possible and what has been done are two different things. Right now, you should not be giving advice on what is possible.

Go get your experience.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

the girls could tell I wasn't just "trying to get in their pants".

Now I've never had sex,...

Now you connect the dots.

 

[A-Unit]

Well I was at college today and approached these chicks. Eventually I talked to them and was very real with them. There was a vey real vibe there and the girls could tell I wasn't just "trying to get in their pants". And overall, I just hung out with the girls and wasn't really caring about interest or attraction or any of that crap. I admit I was slightly nervous about going into the set, but when I sat down in the set, said hi and the girl opened me with "Hey, you use to go to ******?(Asking this ofcourse because I was wearing my old high school marching band shirt) I know some people from there".

And think about it. Now I've never had sex, but I can't imagine there would be much after the sex, if you didn't get to know the girl. Basically, you picked her up and f*cked her, but that's as far as it'll go. Now you go into a set and get a solid interaction and just have a good time with her and her friends, you have girls who you could possibly hang out with. Not because they have big breasts or they have a tight ass, but because you enjoyed interacting with them.

And if you get to know the girl, you'll probably talk to her after sex. Not about sex in itself, but you'll keep calling her back because you can be real with her and you enjoy her company.

I appreciate and respect your newness, El Stud, but please think about what "you don't know what you don't know" means.

1) You can talk to a girl, or bang a girl. If you're undecided about the girl, then it's AFC, IMO, to push for sex, which often creates even more bad circumstances, like fake feelings, closeness you may not want, or even diseases or pregnancy. BAD.

2) You'll learn over time few women know themselves, until MUCH later on in life, such as when they have kids or are married, or just age and go through tons of ****. Wise ones admit it then, immature ones don't, as in the MILF who still parties with her young daughter.

3) It is, what it is. You'll meet a girl, and maybe all you want is sex, and that's all she wants. Not to toot my horn, but on New Year's a few year's ago, my buddy and I, and another couple rented a limo and hotel rooms in beantown. One of the girls brought a friend. It was a layup lap for me that was automatic BEFORE the night began. It was what it was. Turns out she was torn between being single or her X, but I was in the right place at the right time.

Had I opted to "talk" or want for a relationship, I'd have blown what life was presenting me. Great, drunken sex, and then sex upon waking. She was a tiny hottie that was great fun in bed. No risks were had. Aside from that night, she was a D-bag.

4) There's other girls you may talk to over time that turn into something more. I know LOTS of hotties, who are desirable women, that aren't auto-bangs, DESPITE what PUA pundits tell you. Just because a super hot girl won't bang you immediately doesn't mean you're bad or unworthy, or that she wants some AZZHOLE. Azzholes often attract the bytches anyways, and they don't always make the best girl friends or even women to date. You attract WHAT YOU ARE.

--------------------------------------

That's the fallacy of the AFC. They are not themselves. They are misguided by social notions, weakness, lack of proper alpha programming, and so forth. In situations when they want to bang, they figure its best to talk. When they ought to bang, they go slow and lose the girl. Conversely, when its just a bang, they want a relationship. Or, if the girl is a good catch, they blow it, push too hard, and get nothing; not even a friend.

I believe Mystery through the guys, although well-picked, through his little bootcamp to come out and realize...you don't need games, tricks, or women. You don't need to be fake or always laying. The best game is a game so fluid, you can adapt TO ANY situation, anytime, ANY place. But how can you teach that? How can a guy come here and even convey that?

We/I/they can't, except through your OWN experience. People as for the best openers, but they are all good, no one special one works. The best way to beat her ANTI Slut Defenses is fire right at it. Come strong, come hard. Her ASD blows a 10 when you're fake or make some BS up that she's heard before, and most women have heard a TON if they are near 18 or better. So stop with games, lies, etc. To me, all that says is...

"I'm not sure of myself, I need you, so I need to do whatever it takes to make myself seem appealing to you."

Whereas, boldness says, "I am sure of myself, and if you want me as I am, here I am, but I won't change for anyone," and women want that indepdent, rebel, able to care for himself and her. Because a guy so innured by society is NOT able to care for himself, ala mama's boys and young guys.

 

[HandyAndy]

Not because they have big breasts or they have a tight ass

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The Myth of 'Other Guys'

This is perhaps the most common AFC social convention.

We'd all like to think we're unique and special individuals. It's a comforting thought, but our uniqueness means nothing if it isn't appreciated. We'd all like to be beautiful, talented, intelligent and extrordinary in some way to some degree and have others notice these qualities unequivocally. This is the root for the Not Like Other Guys convention.

The idea is that the AFC can and will be appreciated in a greater degree for his personal convictions and/or his greater ability to identify with women's stated idealizations of a man by comparing himself to the nebulous Other Guys who are perceived not to be in tune with women. The intent is to, in essesence, self-generate social proof for attraction while substituting a real social element with perceived or reported social evidence. The fallacy in this schema is that it's always better to demonstrate social proof than to explicate it, but this is lost on the AFC practicing of this convention. And this only becomes more compounded by the reinforcement he receives from other AFCs (and really society at large) sharing his desire to outshine the phantom Other Guys. He's patted on the back and praised by men and women alike for voluntarily molding his personality to better fit a woman's perceived ideal and told in so many words "oh AFC,..I'm so glad you're not like Other Guys."You can't fault the guy. He genuinely believes his Nice Guy personal conviction and everyone applauds him for it.

When you approach women from an asexual, friends-first attitude you do both them and yourself a disservice. First, you desexualized yourself from the outset. By doing so you present no sexual threat (and I mean this is the pragmatic sense, not a physical sense) and are therefore pre-disqualify yourself from her sexual consideration. Second, you insult her. By assuming a sex-neutral position you subliminally imply that she's not a sexual consideration for you. If an asexual boy like you isn't hot for her, what does that do for her ego?

Women know you want to ƒuck them, and to some degree, they enjoy this. They'll tell you what a Nice Guy you are or how you're "not like other guys" for not wanting ONLY to bang them, but the fact of the matter is there are more guys LIKE you than UNLIKE you. Desexualizing yourself doesn't make you unique, it makes you a face in her crowd. This forum is teeming with guys who did exactly what you're describing here. All you're doing is perpetuating your condition. It's the hot girl at the end of the bar being bought drinks all night scenario writ large. Everyone of the guys she shot down who bought her a drink thought they weren't like "other guys" until the one who came along who's attention she had to earn made her hot.

 

[oakraiderz2]

haha, so I sound like a frusterated chump because I'm not desperate for ass and would rather have fun with a girl. There's more to women than sex. And thus there's more to life than woman.

No, once again you show your lack of understanding. You sound like a frustrated chump because you would rather be friends with girls and enjoy their company than have sex with them, something youve never gotten close to doing. There's more to women than sex, huh? You would be one to know, so why dont you enlighten us with your mystical, enchanting ways? I agreed with some of what you said to an extent, but thats because ive actually gotten laid. YOU ON THE OTHER HAND HAVE NOT, which takes away any right you think you have to say its refreshing to get to know women, rather than to sleep with them. You wanna know whats even better? Having sex with a girl you like to spend time with, once again, something youre unfamilar with. Instead of trying to impress the individuals here, do what really makes you happy. If you like being a creep, be a creep until that little light in your head clicks. A-Unit and Rollo single handedly anhilated you. Stop fooling yourself kid, it only hurts you.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Don't beat the kid up too much OAK, he still needs to learn. Unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work, but don't kill the patient with the medicine.

 

[Da Realist]

I can't completely fault you because it's cool to be able to go out and have fun. The thing is that you're ignoring the other part women want: passion. You should be able to look her dead in the eye and she knows that you'll do things a "friend" won't do. You create excitement and a little fear in them because they know its what they want but don't know how to open up. The thing is not to look like you're the one begging for it or act like you're afraid of yourself because it creates doubts about who is in control. They want to give themselves up to you, and really dating is just a long session of them wanting to subcomb to you but wanting to know its worth it. I'm not going to beat you up over what you said, but don't forget what the point really is.

 

[K2000kidd]

How did you happen to pick that username again?

 

[Ripper]

The OP is surprisingly prescient given that he's never had sex. I haven't read the other replies in the thread yet but I'm gonna go out on a limb (quite possibly ) and say that you're quite correct. My experience over the last couple of years is that it has been far more rewarding actually getting to know girls rather than just chasing them purely for sex.

 

[Ripper]

Have just read the whole thread. As someone above said earlier, 'poon is poon'. When you have enough of it, you really do want something more.

When you come from a place of abundance in that way, you realise that in order to actually find the real quality girls/women you have to discriminate. You have to set high standards and then screen them.

Most guys never ask themselves why they go after sex. It is considered a given that you do. Especially in the seduction/pickup community which is largely underpinned by evolutionary theory. And, in my experience, here is the kicker gentlemen.

Women know this and bank on it as the foundation of all power they can yield over men.

What does this mean in your daily interactions with females? It means that women can sense whether you have control over yourself. I have found that when girls can sense that I'm holding myself back, their interest sky rockets. It is incredibly attractive. Why? Because she can feel that she has no power over you....and thus she feels as a natural female - submissive. This, I think, puts the need/want distinction into focus. (incidentally, I have found this to be particularly effective on very good-looking women).

To use the SS terminology:

No true understanding of one's self:

1) AFC - the self is permanently suppressed.
2) Jerk - polar opposite - self is in control.

True understanding of one's self:

The truly confident man - He has control of himself knowing when to restrain it and when to unleash its power.

I firmly believe that when Pook said that 'a great man is not defined by his sexuality', this is what he was talking about.

When you are a slave to yourself, you end up chasing sex at all costs often and (in some cases, always unaware) that that is what you're doing.

So I would argue that Elstud is actually on the money here to a large extent - though not from his first hand experience (which is probably what is bugging people so much, understandable in a way)

 

[ElStud]

Heh, I feel like I'm on ButtPirates.com here. Being real with a girl AFC? Haha. A confident guy who's being real is different from an AFC, because A. He escalates which an AFC doesn't B. He has confidence C. He doesn't have fear of women. So a confident guy being real AFC? Nah. And a confident guy who escalates will NEVER be the emotional tampon because he stays out of the friend zone. By being real I mean, no ingenuinity, you're TRULY having fun with the girl and you're truly enjoying her company before you get in her bed. Not just going up to and hanging with her just to get in her pants. But yeah, in the end you guys can continue to be butt pirates, but I'm just saying that it's also good to just have genuine fun with her before you f*ck her. If you hung out with her just to get laid, that's fake and ingenuine.

Infact as I said before, you can probably lay girls quicker by being real. Seriously though, you think naturals lay girls using lines? Hell no, they just NATURALLY aren't desperate and outcome dependent. Being afraid of women was never built into them. You all tell me to look at the DJ Bible but guess what, that teaches the same philosophy as me. That there is more to life than women and the butt pirates on here can't see that. Infact, women flock mostly to guys who aren't desperate for sex.

By using all the lines and stuff, you are lying and deceiving her. Either way being real or being fake with her, you can still pull women quite fast either way. And once again, an AFC is NOT being real for a couple reasons. First, an AFC fears women; guys truly self confident don't fear women. Second, put women on a pedastal; guys who are truly confident have no reason to. Third, the confident guy being real with the women escalates and thus he rarely falls into the friend zone like the AFC.

 

[Corona]

I actually like the way you're thinking, ElStud, even if you're just armchair theorizing.

PM sent.

 

[Joe The Homophobe]

Getting to know the girl you are gaming = GREAT
Having the girl you are interested in get to know you = WORST MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE

the more you know about a girl = closer you are to bedding her
the more a girl knows about you = you are her friend

to game a woman right you have to listen to her bs (talk about herself, life and all that crap) for hrs and hrs, the more you know her the better. Just don't let her get to the point she thinks she knows "a lot" about you.

 

[ElStud]

Getting to know the girl you are gaming = GREAT
Having the girl you are interested in get to know you = WORST MISTAKE YOU CAN MAKE

the more you know about a girl = closer you are to bedding her
the more a girl knows about you = you are her friend

to game a woman right you have to listen to her bs (talk about herself, life and all that crap) for hrs and hrs, the more you know her the better. Just don't let her get to the point she thinks she knows "a lot" about you.

well lol you don't have to if you don't want to. I mean you CAN, but why do that when you can lead the interaction into where YOU want it to go? Still if that's what you really believe go with it, because since that's truly what you believe, it will still work in field. This comes back to what I said about women being drawn to guys who act real.

 

[Playboy]

Sleep with enough women and sooner or later you'll realize "ElStud" isn't really all that far off from truth. Poon is poon. When it's plentiful and easy you start to look for something else to differentiate one from the other.

The problem, ElStud, is that you know all of the talking points but don't know how to execute. What is possible and what has been done are two different things. Right now, you should not be giving advice on what is possible.

Go get your experience.

This pretty much nails it. Elstud your realization is indeed important. You must be "indifferent" to whether or not you have sex with a given woman to have more sex with women. Ironic isn't it? Being in the moment with women, having fun with women -- these are very important as well. That's when things just happen naturally. However those things DONT happen to you naturally. Your getting flack here because your a virgin. This is not a focus that a virgin should be most focused on. While this is important it is most helpful to those who actually ARE escalating, ARE kinoing, know how to avoid the friend trap, know how to avoid being an emotional tampon, do you know how to keep intrique, do you know how to stay somewhat mysterious, do you know how to touch her, do you know how to spin something serious or logical into something funny or sexual, can you lead, do you understand how to be masculine and be a man, can you hold your frames, are you the prize, are you able to show sexual energy nonverbally, are you conscious of what it takes to be able to have a strong presence, are able to show intent without being attached to the outcome? Im going out on a limb and guessing NO -- unless your the first ever virgin natural.

So don't think that your wrong man, your onto a very KEY ingrediant, but you don't have the fundamentals that you need for that key ingrediant to do JACK shyt for you right now. What you need to focus on is making things sexual right now, if you take your frame and apply it as the most important thing right now and your not doing the other things I mentioned or it is PREVENTING you from doing the other things I mentioned -- than your in for a bumpy ride.

So it's great that you want to be in the moment, be natural, have fun, and be indifferent to the sex -- but since you haven't even HAD sex yet I think you should also focus on some things that lead to sex. Cool? Cool.

 

[theunflushables]

Heh, I feel like I'm on ButtPirates.com here. Being real with a girl AFC? Haha. A confident guy who's being real is different from an AFC, because A. He escalates which an AFC doesn't B. He has confidence C. He doesn't have fear of women. So a confident guy being real AFC? Nah. And a confident guy who escalates will NEVER be the emotional tampon because he stays out of the friend zone. By being real I mean, no ingenuinity, you're TRULY having fun with the girl and you're truly enjoying her company before you get in her bed. Not just going up to and hanging with her just to get in her pants. But yeah, in the end you guys can continue to be butt pirates, but I'm just saying that it's also good to just have genuine fun with her before you f*ck her. If you hung out with her just to get laid, that's fake and ingenuine.

Infact as I said before, you can probably lay girls quicker by being real. Seriously though, you think naturals lay girls using lines? Hell no, they just NATURALLY aren't desperate and outcome dependent. Being afraid of women was never built into them. You all tell me to look at the DJ Bible but guess what, that teaches the same philosophy as me. That there is more to life than women and the butt pirates on here can't see that. Infact, women flock mostly to guys who aren't desperate for sex.

By using all the lines and stuff, you are lying and deceiving her. Either way being real or being fake with her, you can still pull women quite fast either way. And once again, an AFC is NOT being real for a couple reasons. First, an AFC fears women; guys truly self confident don't fear women. Second, put women on a pedastal; guys who are truly confident have no reason to. Third, the confident guy being real with the women escalates and thus he rarely falls into the friend zone like the AFC.

There is a difference between being real and "getting to know a girl". Yeah, be your real self, but don't sit there and listen to her b1tch about why she can't meet good guy like you, expecting she's going to want something beyond a friendship with you. That's just foolish.

 

[Crazy Asian]

both sides of the argument are ridunculous.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Have just read the whole thread. As someone above said earlier, 'poon is poon'. When you have enough of it, you really do want something more.

The problem with this rationale is in what a guy perceives as "abundance". To the starving man a cracker is as good as filet mignon. You can say poon is poon, but is it? Why are you not with a fat chick who treats you like a king then? The problem with "something more" is in thinking you've had it all when you haven't. Do you honestly think ELSTUD, the virgin, has had enough experience to "say, I'm tired of all this, I want something more substantial?"

Infact as I said before, you can probably lay girls quicker by being real.

And how's that working out for you? Here I thought you had these nobler, loftier intentions than to just 'lay girls'.


Most guys get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the "friends first" mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.

Most guys (not all) who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with a Sniper mentality. They wait for their one target, constantly attempting to prove their merit in doing so - meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like "other guys") because they've bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he's mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she 'should' be comfortable enough to appreciate him as BF material, the Sniper takes his shot.

The problem with this process is that it bypasses essential stages of attraction and the necessary discomfort and sexual tension necessary for intimacy and proceeds directly to a warm familiar, comfortable, rapport; the exact opposite of arousal. If you think about this in terms of sex, this is the stage right after climax when she wants to cuddle, spoon and be wrapped up in her nice, secure oxytocin induced comfort-cocoon. This the opposite of the testosterone fueled, sweaty, anxious and uncomfortable stage of arousal and intercourse before that release. So in terms of "friendship" and the Sniper mentality, you've skipped arousal and gone straight to comfort. You're perceived as a stuffed animal she can hug and then put back on the bed. Thus, when that previously platonic stuffed animal uncharacteristically gets a hard-on and says "I think we ought to be intimate" her reaction is to think that everything you've done for her up to that point has been some grand ruse. My God, all you wanted was sex this whole time?

 

[drtk]

The problem with this rationale is in what a guy perceives as "abundance". To the starving man a cracker is as good as filet mignon. You can say poon is poon, but is it? Why are you not with a fat chick who treats you like a king then? The problem with "something more" is in thinking you've had it all when you haven't. Do you honestly think ELSTUD, the virgin, has had enough experience to "say, I'm tired of all this, I want something more substantial?"

And how's that working out for you? Here I thought you had these nobler, loftier intentions than to just 'lay girls'.


Most guys get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the "friends first" mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.

Most guys (not all) who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with a Sniper mentality. They wait for their one target, constantly attempting to prove their merit in doing so - meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like "other guys") because they've bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he's mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she 'should' be comfortable enough to appreciate him as BF material, the Sniper takes his shot.

The problem with this process is that it bypasses essential stages of attraction and the necessary discomfort and sexual tension necessary for intimacy and proceeds directly to a warm familiar, comfortable, rapport; the exact opposite of arousal. If you think about this in terms of sex, this is the stage right after climax when she wants to cuddle, spoon and be wrapped up in her nice, secure oxytocin induced comfort-cocoon. This the opposite of the testosterone fueled, sweaty, anxious and uncomfortable stage of arousal and intercourse before that release. So in terms of "friendship" and the Sniper mentality, you've skipped arousal and gone straight to comfort. You're perceived as a stuffed animal she can hug and then put back on the bed. Thus, when that previously platonic stuffed animal uncharacteristically gets a hard-on and says "I think we ought to be intimate" her reaction is to think that everything you've done for her up to that point has been some grand ruse. My God, all you wanted was sex this whole time?

This has to be one of the best post I've seen in sosuave, keep it up Rollo