Why are Some Guys So Against Cold Approach/Daygame

[corrector]

You value something more if you have to work hard for it too.

Personally, getting laid from apps is very easy for me - it's my go-to Plan B. However, I value women I meet off of apps far less than a hard fought daygame lay.

This means you have a chad-tier experience of cold approach and old. I could probably have one too if I lose enough weight to have better facial definition.

 

[Serenity]

What I've noticed is that all girls fall into that natural state if they are highly attracted to you.

The way I see it is that a woman isn't her normal self when infatuated or as you call it "highly attracted". Almost nobody are their normal selves in that state of mind. You can't properly judge a woman's true character when her mind is clouded by that rush of emotion, who she is when that inevitably subsides is what matters. A good way to figure this out early is to see how she treats others around her who she's not infatuated with.

But there's a crucial ingredient in this. She has to see you as superior to her for her to maintain her respect for you. It's the best frame to have, and maintaining that superiority is actually quite easy. You just establish a "My way or No way" frame and you don't budge from it.

That's a bit overkill and unsustainable. She doesn't need to see you as superior, but I would agree that she definitely must never regard you as inferior. With your way you maintain your superiority up until the point she packs it up and leaves because she's sick of not having a say in anything. I'm personally not that black and white about it, I'll listen, consider and decide on whether I want to go along or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't and sometimes I make a third option that suits us both better. If you constantly shut them down and always do it your way they'll resent you after a while.

The only lasting relationship dynamic where you're superior and regard the woman as inferior is if the woman has very low self-esteem. These types of relationships often come with a ton of other problems that will reveal themselves eventually.

If she doesn't comply then you kick her out. If she comes back compliant then the relationship continues, if not then she's gone forever (but they generally do come back because they can't resist that kind of dominant frame).

Typical unhealthy on and off relationship dynamic. I have a 1-strike policy, if it ever reaches the point that the relationship ends then I'm done with it permanently. I don't backpedal for any reason, if the relationship was terminated it was for a good reason and it stays that way.

The frame is destroyed if you ever compromise on it. Any tiny compromise or concession gives her a green light to push more boundaries.

I disagree, a little compromise now and again shouldn't cause her respect for you to plummet. You can compromise once in a while and other times just say no. If she's the type of woman who thinks the first little compromise means she can start bending you over and fvcking you in the ass, then she's a sh!t woman to begin with. A healthy minded woman will leave you if you either never or always compromise, if you're somewhat balanced yourself then you should be fine.

A woman's job is to test her man's frame from time to time - fitness testing.

Sure, that's fairly normal. You will only fail if you compromise too much, a little bit once in a while is fine.

If he can't hold it then she beta-izes him and dumps him.

She beta-izes him? You can't blame women for that one. As I said, a little compromise is fine. If it ever gets this severe it won't be on her, it will be on him for LETTING HER go that far by moving your own boundaries. You can compromise on things that are within your boundaries, things you're ok with or don't care much one way or the other. You can then still put your foot down if she tries to go too far and if she at that point don't respect you because you have compromised one time previously then clearly she's a sh!t woman.

That's the LTR Game as I see it.

Looks more like MTR in my view, effective enough to work for a while, but too unsustainable for a lasting healthy relationship.

 

[samspade]

Who's against day game? I've not seen that opinion around here.

It shouldn't even be called anything. Talking to girls outside of meet-market venues should just be a natural thing any guy does. Any guy here, anyway.

 

[Serenity]

Probably the key reason I like to maintain a completely dominant and superior frame is because I've noticed that it's where the best sex comes from. She works extremely hard to please you, and interestingly it appears to massively turn her on when in complete submission.

Sexual dynamic isn't quite the same as overall relationship dynamic in my experience. I've been with the same woman for 6 years now, married almost 2 years. Sex is wilder than it ever has been. I really didn't even have a choice to not dominate in the bedroom, she was a virgin when we met and I had to teach her the arts. She prefers that I lead, but on the rare occasion there's something she wants to do I'm usually open to that.

Outside the bedroom it's more of a cooperation. I really hate having to decide on every little thing, so I decide on some things and leave some things up to her. Usually I decide on everything big like expensive purchases and such. It's not like one person decides and that overrules whatever the other may have against it, we do discuss things and most of the time reach agreement whether that's to go for it, not go for it or find another solution altogether. She's fairly levelheaded and so am I so it works, a less rational woman would drive me up a fvcking wall though, haha.

In my experience, she only ever becomes resentful if she loses respect. This is what ties into managing her perceptions of you (something we discussed earlier).

First sentence is absolutely true. The second sentence is your way of achieving it, I do it differently. I don't "manage perceptions", that's way too stressful, I manage the people I allow into my life. I do life the way that makes me feel the best (within the realm of possibility of course), I eject the people who upsets that balance. That's not really much to manage because I get rid of those who require a lot of managing to keep around.

Women completely change themselves to mold to the shape of what the man she loves wants her to be. She will remain this way until he no longer turns her on.

I'm extremely skeptical of women who behave in this way. They change themselves because of their emotionally hightened state, this only lasts for as long as she's in that state and in the case of infatuation it may last a very long time, but never indefinitely. When that day comes she will revert back to her natural state and if she's not someone you like in her natural state you have wasted your time at best. This means you'll have to work harder to keep her from being her natural self, you're literally fighting her nature and sooner or later nature will win.

I want a woman who initially doesn't need any significant changing to begin with, a woman I can love in her natural state and who will return that love in her natural state. So when that constant barrage of heightened emotion inevitably wears off a deeper and calmer connection takes over. That's where we're at now, the honeymoon phase has long since passed. It's not all day every day anymore, but we get into that zone relatively frequently and that keeps it alive and healthy. In between we get sh!t done that needs to be done to actually function effectively in life, without me having to carry all the load and wear myself out.

I aim for balance, it does not need to be perfect balance in all aspects, some variations are ok. I do like to stay away from any extremes though, I only go to extremes if I'm met with extremes. In the case of women though I prefer one that's like myself, well balanced in most areas, I find those most enjoyable to spend my life with. I stay away from extreme people, they're near impossible to cooperate with. I don't bother trying to dominate them even if I know I could, it's no fun, the smartest thing I can do is deprive them of my most valuable asset, my time.

 

[Serenity]

First up, congrats on marrying a virgin. That should be the baseline requirement for all marriages.

Thanks, I guess, wasn't really a critera for me, it just happened to be so. I'm not personally opposed to having (responsible) casual sex actually, I believe society places too much significance on sex in general.

You are naturally going to have a much easier time running the relationship the way you do because you're her first, and she has nothing to compare you to (which is a great thing!)

On the other hand I do run the risk of her curiosity thinking the grass may be greener on the other side though. That said, I do keep her well fed with high quality grass on this field.

Unfortunately, girls with a sexual past have hit the hypergamy switch and they compare you to past experiences and projected future experiences with other guys.

No doubt many women do this, but I do believe some of them are able to overcome it and enjoy things for what they are now. It's generally a bad (and common) mistake to be mentally stuck in the past and the future, been there, done that, most of the time only pain comes of it.

This is where the maintaining of her respect becomes such a crucial thing. The more c0cks she's had, the more unstable she becomes. And this has a very steep curve too.

On my part this is where heavy screening comes in. Maybe 90%+ fails the tests, but if I don't screen properly I won't find the exceptions. As I said, I can't be bothered to go beyond my natural state to keep a woman interested, not worth the effort IMO.

But in the case of virgins, in my experience, you don't need to worry about maintaining perceptions and respect much at all because you already have it by being her "first." - It's just such a powerful thing to have over a women - being her first time.

Didn't work that well on my first virgin. She used the typical "I'm just not feeling it anymore" breakup, she confused infatuation for love and once it inevitably wore off she thought she lost her love for me. That's what inexperience can do, fortunately my wife understood the difference. So virgins aren't a guaranteed hit and they may still have serious personality defects making them unsuitable for any type of LTR.

 

[forcerecon01]

I'm not against cold approaching. I did it over the internet when America Online was popular back in the 90's early 00's. Got laid more than now lol
'

 

[Georgepithyou]

Thanks, I guess, wasn't really a critera for me, it just happened to be so. I'm not personally opposed to having (responsible) casual sex actually, I believe society places too much significance on sex in general

Your right that our society values sex too much and that is the reason why the price has skyrocketed.I think most times the thrill of the chase is more exciting than the actual outcome, I got into game to improve myself and i used cold approach to build up my confidence/social skills so i can find a better quality woman.

 

[Serenity]

The only downside of maintaining a dominant frame is that she can start to become suffocating. You become a potent drug for her and she's just constantly chasing, constantly wanting to fvck, constantly calling/messaging, needs to be around you all the time etc. When this continues for a year straight I inevitably get tired of it and start to sabotage the relationship so I can get out of it (subconsciously). It usually takes the form of wreckless cheating on my part, getting caught, loss of frame etc. That's when the resentment you wrote about comes in - hell hath no fury like a scorned woman, as they say.

Yeah, this is exactly the situation I intend to counteract. I need my space and don't tolerate needy people, least of all one who I am going to see every day for a very long time. So as I said, your approach to this isn't really sustainable for the long term, it's more like a medium term. That's fine in and of itself, but your cycle doesn't sound particularly healthy.

I'm going to bed now, but this was an interesting discussion.

 

[SW15]

I think it's because cold approach is very difficult to get tangible (ie. sexual) results from.

What most guys will discover is that if you're well-calibrated and look decent then the vast majority of women will be happy to have a conversation with you, and then blow you off with "I have a boyfriend" or some other auto-reject line women use. I can't think of many women at all who have reacted negatively to me approaching them. The worst I ever get is her politely telling me that she has a boyfriend, and in worse situations she just doesn't stop to talk because she's busy and on her way to do something.

Guys who criticize Daygame/Cold Approach haven't had any success from it, so they write it off as a way to cope. Once a guy gets laid for the first time from cold approach then his whole outlook will change.

The biggest issue of all is the grifters on YouTube who pretend that Daygame is easy. It's not easy at all, and it makes men feel like failures for not achieving fast results from it.

Personally, when I started daygame cold approaching back in the day it took me several months and multiple approaches to get a bang out of it. After my first bang, my outlook and vibe changed, and the daygame process became much more enjoyable.

This is close my point of view on non-bar approaching.

Non-bar approaching has the highest barriers to entry.

Most men do not have the internal courage to randomly approach women in a non-bar setting while sober. This is why men participate in co-ed sports leagues as an alternative to bar approaching because the approaches are easier. However, that doesn't guarantee success.

Yes, agree that women have auto-reject lines. I've heard less IHABs in recent years. Women are getting better at the phony auto-reject lines.

 

[SW15]

I actually think most guys get it. Guys don’t have a problem with sex, sex is easy to get in 2021.

The problem is most guys want a woman’s love, respect, admiration, companionship. This is very hard to get in 2021. In 2021, a girl would much sooner take off her clothes to have sex with a man than to pick up a phone and call the same man to see how he is doing.

In my opinion a man would be best served not to commit to any woman. Remember, the sexual market place is deregulated, women are encouraged to sleep around and be happy, the Courts and public opinion always side with the woman and nothing is ever a woman‘s fault.

Why would a man want to legally commit to a depreciating asset when he basically has 0 leverage? For a steady supply of sex at her discretion?

Brutal.

Sex is not easy to get. If it were, sexlessness rates would be lower.

Getting approached by a chick isn't attractive because it's masculine behavior.

Obviously confidence is huge. If a man doesn't believe in himself, then her can't expect her to either.

Expecting to "cross paths" with women is passive behavior. As a man, you have to make it happen.

I have gotten approached by women less than 5 times in my life and I’m in my late 30s. I’d be impressed by it.

Agree on the “cross paths” mentality. As a man, you need to make approaches in your day to day life if you are to “cross paths”.

Approach with a reason that has nothing to do with her beauty or you finding her attractive. Complementing her beauty gives all your power away. Approach with a comment on her fashion choice if she's wearing something unique. Other approaches could be commenting on her mood, or what she might be up to - always preface it with something like "I saw you walking here just now and I noticed..(launch into your comment)". First step is how she respond to your opener, and proceed from there if she's receptive. You keep making comments and observations until she hooks on something or starts giving you information about herself - this is a buying signal. Your comments can be anything from her accent, her mood, or what she looks like i.e. "You look like you know how to dance, you've got a dancer's physique". Dancing is subconsciously sexual so it's good area to lead her mind to.

Once she hooks and gives you information e.g. "Actually, I love dancing. But I'm not a professional. Tehehe" then that's your greenlight to proceed to building some rapport, giving her a bit of information about yourself and then flirting with her. Flirting can be done through push/pull statements (but this has to be very calibrated), body language and light kino like touching the back of her elbow when you're emphasizing something you're saying. The power of touch is very lethal if you do it the right way.

You only proceed through these stages if she's attracted, and a girl makes it pretty obvious when she's attracted.

Once you've done these things then you could either try for an insta date by suggesting she accompany you to coffee (you were already getting a coffee and she can come along - never ask her "Would you like to get a coffee with me?"). If you don't want to insta-date her then you can either leave her with your card James Bond style, or take her number.

Agree with all of this.

 

[Velasco]

manipulative

This is good example of manipulation

Is this rape?

My friend was dating x. My friend and x and had been arguing... Friend 2 swoops in and tells x that friend 1 was ****ing another girl and has moved on... Friend 2, who I no longer consider a friend lied as friend 1 was with me and the boys the whole weekend (he's my roommate) and was actually...

www.skilledseducer.com

Again for a definition of psychological manipulation

Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the behavior or perception of others through indirect, deceptive, or underhanded tactics. By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at another's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative and devious.

lying

about your age
what you do for a living, where you live, your name, etc. all fall under this term.
Lesser devious ones include, the way you dress, cologne, hairstyle, confidence/extroverted (alcohol) because all theses things change the perception of others. which serves your purposes.

 

[corrector]

Sex is not easy to get. If it were, sexlessness rates would be lower.

It is for him, but not for us. Remember, the experience of a normie-tier and chad-tier is different. @Pan87 also sounds chad-tier.
You have to take what they all write with a grain of salt and say "of course, it works for them". Otherwise, they would be sounding more like @DonJuanjr or @Josh Davidson. You can tell what quality of experience posters are getting from women out there based on what they are posting and you can see if that can fit into your schema or not.

I have gotten approached by women less than 5 times in my life and I’m in my late 30s. I’d be impressed by it.

That's again Normie-tier experience. Believe it or not, it's better than the sub-5 experience. There are guys who have it worst than we do, and others who have it way better.

 

[Serenity]

Lesser devious ones include, the way you dress, cologne, hairstyle, confidence/extroverted (alcohol) because all theses things change the perception of others. which serves your purposes.

I would not call these manipulation at all, more like influence. To influence others decisions is a completely normal everyday thing to do, it's when we do it without regard for others that it's called manipulation. Dressing, smelling and doing your hair well is not something that harms others. Gaining a temporary sense of confidence in itself also doesn't harm others, but it depends what you do when drinking though.

Changing the behavior or perceptions of others is by itself not enough to call it manipulation, it's particularly when you should reasonably assume it's at the expense of the other person that it's manipulation. Even manipulation is something everyone does, but decent people try to minimize this in themselves.

Lying is no doubt a manipulation tactic though.

 

[SW15]

It is for him, but not for us. Remember, the experience of a normie-tier and chad-tier is different.

That's again Normie-tier experience. Believe it or not, it's better than the sub-5 experience. There are guys who have it worst than we do, and others who have it way better.

A few weeks ago, I defined tiers of men based upon the combination of looks, money, status, and persona. Below is what I stated.

1. Top tier (The top 10% of men). This is the 90th percentile +
2. Second tier. The 70th to 89th percentile
3. Average The 40th to 69th percentile
4. Below average The 11th to 39th percentile
5. The bottom. The lowest 10 percent of men. Often times a part of this group are called omega males.

I believe my combination falls in high average to low second tier. I have a solid notch count and some good relationships in the past 20+ years of participation in the mating environment. I've also dealt with a lot of rejection, drama, and overall bad behavior.

While only the top tier are suited to participate in swipe apps, the second tier and average men can get results with non-bar approaching.

 

[corrector]

A few weeks ago, I defined tiers of men based upon the combination of looks, money, status, and persona. Below is what I stated.

1. Top tier (The top 10% of men). This is the 90th percentile +
2. Second tier. The 70th to 89th percentile
3. Average The 40th to 69th percentile
4. Below average The 11th to 39th percentile
5. The bottom. The lowest 10 percent of men. Often times a part of this group are called omega males.

I believe my combination falls in high average to low second tier. I have a solid notch count and some good relationships in the past 20+ years of participation in the mating environment. I've also dealt with a lot of rejection, drama, and overall bad behavior.

While only the top tier are suited to participate in swipe apps, the second tier and average men can get results with non-bar approaching.

I think that there are three major groupings on how men are treated by women which is why the blackpill idea has traction. Are you suggesting there are 5 different ways that women treat classes of men? Can you elaborate further on your system?

 

[Velasco]

I would not call these manipulation at all, more like influence.

yes why I call them less devious ones. these ones are simple things that convey L (hairstyle, facial hair, skin (tan)) M (cologne, clothing) S (confidence (indirect way of conveying status because of the implication of what confident people's life is like (social connections/ex lovers/high status position). whether you have them (just being yourself) or not (lying).

As an aside, I like the definition of seduction listed under the psychological manipulation's wiki page:

• Seduction: Manipulator uses charm, praise, flattery or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and give their trust to the manipulator. They will also offer help with the intent to gain trust and access to an unsuspecting victim they have charmed.

Trust = allows her to come home with you. she can be attracted to your fundamentals, but if there is no trust that you won't harm her (perception created through demonstrating social calibration and congruence), she won't allow herself to be seduced by you.

 

[corrector]

yes why I call them less devious ones. these ones are simple things that convey L (hairstyle, facial hair, skin (tan)) M (cologne, clothing) S (confidence (indirect way of conveying status because of the implication of what confident people's life is like (social connections/ex lovers/high status position). whether you have them (just being yourself) or not (lying).

As an aside, I like the definition of seduction listed under the psychological manipulation's wiki page:

• Seduction: Manipulator uses charm, praise, flattery or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and give their trust to the manipulator. They will also offer help with the intent to gain trust and access to an unsuspecting victim they have charmed.

Trust = allows her to come home with you. she can be attracted to your fundamentals, but if there is no trust that you won't harm her (perception created through demonstrating social calibration and congruence), she won't allow herself to be seduced by you.

And trust = your looks score.

 

[Velasco]

S (confidence (indirect way of conveying status because of the implication of what confident people's life is like (social connections/ex lovers/high status position)

I do like this connection between status and confidence so I'll make another comment about it.

Its said that the difference in men and women's attraction to the opposite sex, is that the number one thing they like is different. For men its looks. For women its status (provided he isn't physically repulsive to her).

Confidence is also the number 1 thing constantly listed as #1 on girls list of what is attractive to them. What they miss is the asterisk *provided he isn't physically repulsive to me.

Autistic shy Chad with no friends loses out to fun of the party Chad-lite 10 out of 10 times (anyone who debates this either 1) isn't observant of social dynamics 2) watches too many incel videos.

One comment I remember by YaReally was that if you walk into a high end club, dressed in normal clothes while everyone is dressed up to the 9s. They'll think you are high status because you MUST be someone if your not following the dress code everyone else must abide by. However, if your a shy guy who is subcommunicating to the room that you feel you are out of place, then you don't get the attached "high status" label. Instead quickly reverted to socially uncalibrated werido status. Its only when you are confident that you ARE in the right place, that this prominent high status label gets associated with you.

 

[Velasco]

And trust = your looks score.

I'm sure as an ugly guy you have still talked with girls that were attracted to you (think back all of your life before replying for a second). and then you lost them once you demonstrated autistic-serial killer like behavior. that turned them off. this is them losing their trust in you, that you won't harm/make things (like sex) awkward.

 

[corrector]

I'm sure as an ugly guy you have still talked with girls that were attracted to you (think back all of your life before replying for a second). and then you lost them once you demonstrated autistic-serial killer like behavior. that turned them off. this is them losing their trust in you, that you won't harm/make things (like sex) awkward.

You are virtue signaling. Say when comminicating with a lady online and she is enthuiastic with me then I have lost her in two occasions once she saw my picture. The only difference was she saw my picture.