What's the proper way to enforce boundaries?

[El Payaso]

Is it better to just walk away from the situation or to call her out on her wrongdoing?

 

[Rainman4707]

Apparently one has to do it at the beginning of a relationship, but if you're not happy about something then I would tell her. That's what I would do.

 

[RangerMIke]

Agreed, best to set boundries up front. When a woman brings up that she wants to be exclusive, that is when you negociate what it's going to look like.

Other DJs are going to disagree with me, because this has come up before, but after the relationship starts, IMO, if you want to set new boundries then you do so with action. If a woman does something that you don't want, then you just back away, or do something to bring her interest level back up by showing her more affection and romance.

I completely disagree with trying to 'lay down the law'. The reason is that women aren't stupid.... it is HIGHLY likely she knows that whatever she is doing annoys you, if this is true than the reason is because you have let her interest level drop and she is trying to stur up sh!t to start a fight, so that she can walk away with it being your fault. She might not even be completely aware she is doing this. The best example that everyones sees is a woman that is not happy in her marriage puts on weight. She fvcking knows that guys don't like fat chicks, that it's unhealthy, and diminishes her looks.... looks are her principle tools, so why would she willingly let them slip... so the only reason she let's this happen is that she is trying to push you away.

I've been around awhile and dated plenty of women to recognize the signs that a woman is leaving emotionally... this is one of those flashing red lights.

When a woman 'misbehaves' that is a symptom of the problem of lowering interest. Trying to enforce boundries only treats the symptom... if you want to keep this woman then you have to treat the cause... low interest... start dating her 'again' do the things you did to get her interested in you in the first place. A woman with high interest isn't going to do anything to drive you away.

 

[Nu Vision]

Ranger Mike,

This topic interests me a lot since I faced boundaries issues with my ex wife which ultimately led to the end of the marriage. I agree with what you have said. After months of being in the relationship is good to enforce boundaries with actions. Talking won't help much. But one question I have is this ... If she misbehaves (low interest level), wouldn't doing things to increase her interest level be rewarding bad behavior? Wouldn't it be best to punish her somehow by going dark or not being present, giving her less attention?

 

[Starwolf]

if you want to keep this woman then you have to treat the cause... low interest... start dating her 'again' do the things you did to get her interested in you in the first place.

This advice is contradicting...

I've always read that the one who cares least has control over the relationship.

hope to see more opinions from others on this.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Boundaries must be set before the problems arise. She needs to know the rules of YOUR kingdom early on.

It's done via casual conversation, with you covertly voicing your rules. Women respond to covert comms, as that's all they understand for the most part. Enforce the small transgressions with absolute ruthlessness (remove your attention and presence when she breaks a rule) and she will fear what will happen if she commits a big transgression.

Your rules are best conveyed by drifting into "philosophical" mode. You are both discussing life and relationships and you covertly insert your views, which are of course your requirements. They should be conveyed as rules for US, together, not rules for just her.

Women need to be trained. They will treat you according to the demands you set for yourself and those you allow into your kingdom. Women will regard you precisely the same way you regard yourself. They take 100% of their social cues from outside sources, therefore it's up to us to communicate that we have high regard for ourselves (not arrogant pride, but rather healthy self-respect that is enforced).

A man must be ruthless in enforcing his rules. Women are doubly ruthless when you break theirs, are they not?

I've said this before: In three of my past relationships the woman has out of nowhere said, "Atom, I love the way you set guidelines for us". This is because she knows I am taking charge, that I am taking care of "US", and that I am protecting her. The Alpha male is always the one who PROACTIVELY takes care of those whom he leads and who has no fear in laying down the law and administering punishment for breaking the law. Women love this. They won't tell you they do (for they don't even know what they need and want) but they crave it. The sex act is an allegory for life. She surrenders and is penetrated. Did you think that you, as a man, only penetrates a women physically? No, even more importantly you penetrate her emotionally and mentally.

 

[RangerMIke]

Ranger Mike,

This topic interests me a lot since I faced boundaries issues with my ex wife which ultimately led to the end of the marriage. I agree with what you have said. After months of being in the relationship is good to enforce boundaries with actions. Talking won't help much. But one question I have is this ... If she misbehaves (low interest level), wouldn't doing things to increase her interest level be rewarding bad behavior? Wouldn't it be best to punish her somehow by going dark or not being present, giving her less attention?

You're thinking about it all wrong, you are still focused on the 'behavior' behavior is a symptom. If her interest level is high she will not do anything to screw things up with you. Behavior modification is not appropriate because a majority of women don't really understand that their emotions are driven by interest level.

What you have to do is recognize the symptoms of low interest before it becomes a problem.... you girl starts reaching out to you less, starts putting on some 'extra' pounds, is not responsive... starts making sex difficult, stops trying to look nice for you.... That is when you need to ramp up affection and romance.

NOW... if that doesn't work and make the 'symptoms' go away or if she sees this as rewarding bad behavior (which goes away with high interest), well then you have a situation which you appearently can not fix without changing your purpose, surrendering control, and giving in more.

At this happens to you, walk away, or if you're married, go get a divorce lawyer.

 

[Nu Vision]

Thanks for the further explanation guys. I get it now.

Ranger Mike,

This happened to me and I ended up in a lawyers office.

I failed to really see when things went bad. I mean I saw she wasn't putting the effort anymore but didn't know at the time it was that her IL wqs going down and what I need led to do to correct the situation.

 

[zekko]

Boundaries must be set before the problems arise. She needs to know the rules of YOUR kingdom early on.

It's done via casual conversation, with you covertly voicing your rules. Women respond to covert comms, as that's all they understand for the most part. Enforce the small transgressions with absolute ruthlessness (remove your attention and presence when she breaks a rule) and she will fear what will happen if she commits a big transgression.

Your rules are best conveyed by drifting into "philosophical" mode. You are both discussing life and relationships and you covertly insert your views, which are of course your requirements. They should be conveyed as rules for US, together, not rules for just her.

Women need to be trained. They will treat you according to the demands you set for yourself and those you allow into your kingdom. Women will regard you precisely the same way you regard yourself. They take 100% of their social cues from outside sources, therefore it's up to us to communicate that we have high regard for ourselves (not arrogant pride, but rather healthy self-respect that is enforced).

A man must be ruthless in enforcing his rules. Women are doubly ruthless when you break theirs, are they not?

I've said this before: In three of my past relationships the woman has out of nowhere said, "Atom, I love the way you set guidelines for us". This is because she knows I am taking charge, that I am taking care of "US", and that I am protecting her. The Alpha male is always the one who PROACTIVELY takes care of those whom he leads and who has no fear in laying down the law and administering punishment for breaking the law. Women love this. They won't tell you they do (for they don't even know what they need and want) but they crave it. The sex act is an allegory for life. She surrenders and is penetrated. Did you think that you, as a man, only penetrates a women physically? No, even more importantly you penetrate her emotionally and mentally.

As I always say:
The male HAS to set the boundaries, because the female sure as hell isn't going to do it. And it isn't her place to set the rules anyway, the man is supposed to be the leader. Hopefully he is up to it. If he's not, that's when things go to crap.

 

[Trump]

What you have to do is recognize the symptoms of low interest before it becomes a problem.... you girl starts reaching out to you less, starts putting on some 'extra' pounds, is not responsive... starts making sex difficult, stops trying to look nice for you.... That is when you need to ramp up affection and romance.

Bro, what do you mean by "recognize symptoms"? Who is in charge? If my girl was not responsive and making sex difficult, I wouldn't try harder and ramp up the affection, I would go after another girl. Nothing I do or say would wake her up faster than her thinking she is on shaky ground.

NOW... if that doesn't work and make the 'symptoms' go away or if she sees this as rewarding bad behavior (which goes away with high interest), well then you have a situation which you appearently can not fix without changing your purpose, surrendering control, and giving in more.

At this happens to you, walk away, or if you're married, go get a divorce lawyer.

I'm not sure about this "good behavior, bad behavior, setting boundary (as was mentioned in other posts) stuff. If you got to tell your girl "don't go clubbing" "don't go have drinks with other men." "don't disrespect me" "I'm setting boundaries", she's already checked out and will do it for her own ego.

It's like me telling an employee "don't steal" or a teacher saying "don't cheat." It common sense you don't do that in a relationship.

 

[Darth]

The proper way to enforce boundaries is to simply come down smashing hard on a girl if she does something wrong.

Be fearless in coming down on her. That's the key..

 

[G_Govan]

I'm not sure about this "good behavior, bad behavior, setting boundary (as was mentioned in other posts) stuff. If you got to tell your girl "don't go clubbing" "don't go have drinks with other men." "don't disrespect me" "I'm setting boundaries", she's already checked out and will do it for her own ego.

It's like me telling an employee "don't steal" or a teacher saying "don't cheat." It common sense you don't do that in a relationship.

Yes, I would say it depends on the transgression.

Women are on their best behavior when things are fresh which lets you know that they KNOW what they're doing is wrong/disrespectful. I only verbally lay down the hammer when it comes to things that you'd yell at kids for doing, like talking in a disrespectful manner, repeatedly arriving late for important appointments (non-date), laziness, cleanliness, etc.

When it comes to intimate relationship type drama, that's when covert/non-verbal type action is necessary.

As long as "laying down the hammer" doesn't involve you trying to "negotiate" or demand how you feel she should show you affection or make you feel more loved, you're good.

 

[zekko]

Completely disagree. We have tons of guys here with women who go out with other men while in a relationship. AND THE MEN ARGUE FOR HER BEING ABLE TO DO THIS.

How can this be occurring if it is "common sense" that you don't do this in a relationship?

Lol, so very true. In fact, these guys will call you every name in the book for even suggesting that maybe women shouldn't go out with other men while in a relationship. And they will try to shame you relentlessly for having a problem with it.

Clearly different people have very different viewpoints on this kind of thing. That's why it's best to make your expectations known on this from the beginning. That way, if she has a problem with it, she can find somebody else. And so can you.

 

[G_Govan]

Completely disagree. We have tons of guys here with women who go out with other men while in a relationship. AND THE MEN ARGUE FOR HER BEING ABLE TO DO THIS.

How can this be occurring if it is "common sense" that you don't do this in a relationship?

The problem isn't with the ignorance of the women, it's the men that decided to be pseudo exclusive with them.

How much interest do you think a chick has in you if she's going out with other men? I think this problem exists for men who chase after women with low interest and/or are trying to convert a ho into a housewife.

I don't understand why some guys believe women are these sweet innocent creatures that have no clue what they're doing when it comes to manipulating men. If you have to tell a woman not to see other men then you've already lost.

If you're just FwB going out with other people is pretty much expected.

 

[G_Govan]

Lol, so very true. In fact, these guys will call you every name in the book for even suggesting that maybe women shouldn't go out with other men while in a relationship. And they will try to shame you relentlessly for having a problem with it.

Clearly different people have very different viewpoints on this kind of thing. That's why it's best to make your expectations known on this from the beginning. That way, if she has a problem with it, she can find somebody else. And so can you.

I get the feeling you guys are misinterpreting the reason behind those who say they won't tell a woman not to see other men.

If "making your expectations known" involves negotiating desire than it's a lost cause. That's probably what is meant by all of this.

You can't dictate how a woman should make you feel loved. She may agree on the surface, but she'll just keep it hidden, which they are masters at.

 

[Soolaimon]

Why are you asking about boundaries again for?

Boundaries are useless and a waste of time.

Boundaries are for insecure men who are afraid of losing their woman to another man.

Men who place boundaries don't understand women and have limited experience.

Men will place boundaries on women before they commit cause they are afraid she will hang out with other men.

Men will also put boundaries on women when she starts talking with another guy.

That is done out of insecurity cause you feel you have lower value than the woman and the other men. You are afraid you are going to lose her. So you try to control her behavior through a boundary.

Adult women should already know what a relationship means. If they are too stupid not to know what it means then you shouldn't commit to them. Trying to teach or train them is useless cause they won't understand anyway and will do what they want. Women have free will.

Women will not hang out with other men when you have value. Women only hang out with other men when your value is low and she is losing/lost interest.

No boundary in the world will prevent that when she has no interest.

A boundary is only a verbal agreement which should not be taken seriously.

What she agrees to in January might not be the same when her interest is low in August. She will hang out with other men anyway even tough you set a previous boundary.

Women are illogical and emotional and your useless boundaries will not work when her feelings change. They won't work when she decides what she wants to do.

Women have free will. Trying to control them through boundaries will not work.

Setting boundaries makes it easier for the woman to sneak around and cheat behind your back.

Judge a woman by her actions and not her words.

If she has other men she is dating don't commit to her until she shows you she is worthy of commitment. Making her agree to your insecure boundary won't work when she still wants to date other men. Make her show you through her actions she doesn't want those other men.

If you don't like her behavior dump her. Setting a boundary will not change what she really wants to do.

 

[zekko]

If "making your expectations known" involves negotiating desire than it's a lost cause.

No, it's not a negotiation, it's a screening technique. As Danger says above:

"Remember, it isn't about stopping her from seeing other men (or negotiating desire) as much as it is defining what an LTR means to both of you and filtering for those who see differently."

She may agree on the surface, but she'll just keep it hidden, which they are masters at.

Presumably, you will have spent a lot of time with the woman that you enter into a LTR with. If she is such a type to agree now but keep it hidden, you should be able to pick up on signs that she is that kind of woman. Openness and honesty are very important to me, so I'm pretty good at sniffing out when things aren't adding up. A liar is a liar, they have a certain smell to them. Just like sleazy women do.

 

[G_Govan]

Zekko, have you ever needed a woman you were exclusive with to tell you that you shouldn't date other women?

I'm going to assume, no. That's part of my point.

If your woman does this it should be considered a red flag. She has a desire to keep her options open, right in front of you and somehow you guys think that by telling her "You can't see other men while we're in a serious relationship" all is understood and upheld?

As if she got amnesia the moment you got serious? "Oh my, thanks for letting me know, I completely forgot that seeing other men while I was with you might hurt your feelings and make you jealous."

You guys can't seriously believe this.

 

[Soolaimon]

Solly,

We have already established you use boundaries, per the above. You are just too weak and terrified to have one regarding other men enjoying your woman.

Little insecure are we?

Totally different.

That is not an insecure verbal boundary like you place on your woman out of fear.

That was something I didn't want a woman doing in my car so I took action.

A beta like you would explain the reason why you don't want her smoking in your car getting into an argument with her.

I took action. See the difference?

I don't need to set a boundary cause my woman removed men prior to the relationship. She is showing me through her ACTIONS that she understands what I want. I don't need to tell her.

Unlike yours who you had to prod and explain to get rid of men that you didn't want her have. Wasting your time defining and explaining to her.

I've said this many times but you lie again in the forum cause that's all you can do.

Already starting your lying, contradicting, and being a hypocrite again.

You replied to a comment I made. Everytime I reply to yours you feign I'm attacking you. Now that's a weak cowardly man if I ever saw one.

Do you really want to have another boundary debate after you made an ass out of yourself the last time?

Nobody takes you seriously anymore after that.

You guys can't seriously believe this.

They believe it 100% man. That's how delusional these guys are.

They argued about this in over 7 threads now and won't stop even though they were proven wrong. It's funny.

They also believe that women can't camouflage other men when they set a boundary.

That's how stupid they are.

They can't understand a woman can still sneak around behind their backs if she really wanted to.

 

[G_Govan]

Soolaimon's example is actually entirely appropriate, as it has nothing to do with sexual intimacy.

This is what I meant by the transgression itself making a huge difference.

***I have no dog in this fight so I don't want any of my opinions to be taken as an insult, they surely are not. We're allowed to disagree respectfully.