"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"

Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."

You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.

She's been waiting forty minutes.

Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.

Read more...

What role do YOU play nowadays for women ? Provider, protector, performer or puppet?

Divorced w 3

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
2,521
The typical married man in the United States is a provider. He's a beta male whose primary utility to his woman is additional revenue into the household. In a lot of cases, the married woman is also working a job.

A married man might not have started out as a provider. There's a process that happens in long-term relationships called "beta-ization". Men often become more and more beta as time passes in relationships. This is a part of the idea that I'm most known for promoting on SoSuave, which is the idea that relationships enter a decay phase around the 3-5 year point in time. It's possible that a married man initially attracted a woman on the basis of being either a protector or performer.

Beta males fall into the provider and puppet roles most commonly.

I desire to be a sexual performer. I want to be around for my sex appeal. In this framework, I position myself to women as a performer.
How do you feel about women who are not looking for marriage but are content with an exclusive relationship in perpetuity, in which they financially contribute, relative to their share of income and wealth?
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

Read more...

BeExcellent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
5,416
Reaction score
7,942
Age
57
Mmmmhhhhh......Now that you mention it, my woman actually calls me "Your Majesty" with a very specific tone of voice from time to time. Specifically when Im doing whatever the f0ck I want (which is possibly quite often). Might be some sort of test? I just laugh it off; Agree & Amplify. I keep getting laid whenever I want so Im assuming Im passing all sorts of tests. Im interested in @BeExcellent ´s perspective on this "Your Majesty" thing.



Im the provider and protector (and some sort of King, apparently). Women should the be the performer/puppet to keep things balanced.
She addresses you this way as a tongue in cheek reference to you being the soveriegn leader of your domain. It is playful and respectful I imagine rather than sarcastic and disrespectful, only you know the tone.
 

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
15,423
Reaction score
12,523
How do you feel about women who are not looking for marriage but are content with an exclusive relationship in perpetuity, in which they financially contribute, relative to their share of income and wealth?
It depends on the specifics of the relationship.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4
NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren’t married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.


I haven't lived with girlfriends because I believe in Iron Rule of Tomassi #4.
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
6,121
Reaction score
4,946
That's a good one and I actually do think you are right.

I geuss the performer is the artist, the rockstar, in he eyes, the type of man who "gets her to do things outside of her box".

The puppet might be the safety blanket, the friend who is there for her . Obviously all forms contain some form of mutual attraction.
I would say I'm a "performer" based on your definition in post #13, and @AmsterdamAssassin would fit that role too.

I think there's some potential confusion with board members thinking "dancing monkey" when they think of "performer".
 

"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"

She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.

Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.

The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.

Read more...

MatureDJ

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
12,733
Reaction score
5,152
It depends on the specifics of the relationship.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4
NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren’t married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.


I haven't lived with girlfriends because I believe in Iron Rule of Tomassi #4.
I haven't lived with girlfriends because I have always gotten dumped early on. :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
15,423
Reaction score
12,523
I haven't lived with girlfriends because I have always gotten dumped early on. :mad: :mad: :mad:
How quickly were you dumped? Getting dumped early on before a relationship could reach a point where moving in would be a discussion is one way to avoid living with a woman. It's not the best way to avoid that situation. Your description is a situation where a man seems like to get dropped before he can even have sex in an interaction.

Based on some of your descriptions from multiple threads over time, you seem to get eliminated before the "Define the Relationship" conversations happen in interactions. You were getting eliminated prior to sex in conventional dating.

It seems like a lot of your initial approaches were ignored and the few dates you had were "one date, no sex, no second dates".

A lot of your dates in the United States happened before the rise of the internet-based dating.

According to this framework, you were probably nothing in the United States because your interactions weren't even getting off the ground.

It's possible you were being perceived as a provider (STEM job with some $$) or a puppet.

My house is a sub-5. Chicks probably don’t want to move in.

It needs home-improvement-maxxing to get it up to low tier normie standards.
By this description, it would seem like you would have a much bigger problem than women moving in.

If women see your house, they might get turned off right away and not even want sex with you. They might not even want an exclusive dating relationship with you.

Women can be judgmental in the early stages about a man's home (rented or owned) and his home furnishings. Men have lost sexual opportunities over this.

You have both a home problem and a Norwood scale balding problem to fix in order to get vagina.
 
Last edited:

Mike32ct

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
8,401
Reaction score
5,162
Location
Eastern Time Zone where it's always really late
By this description, it would have a much bigger problem that women moving in.

If women see your house, they might get turned off right away and not even want sex with you. They might not even want an exclusive dating relationship with you.

Women can be judgmental in the early stages about a man's home (rented or owned) and his home furnishings. Men have lost sexual opportunities over this.

You have both a home problem and a Norwood scale balding problem to fix in order to get vagina.
Spot on with both.

My head is buzzed. Might shave it clean, but will otherwise just own it. Not inclined to do surgery at my age, but your point is well taken.

The house is paid off, which is the only reason I keep it. I was stalling on home improvement work because I work a lot of hours (at home). But it can’t wait anymore. I have to make time for the projects.

Chick friends don’t mind the house. One even stayed over multiple times. But I 100% agree that they disqualify on sex/relationship if the house/apartment is not up to par. Yes, a guy can theoretically get friendzoned or ghosted based on his place alone.
 

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
15,423
Reaction score
12,523
My head is buzzed. Might shave it clean, but will otherwise just own it. Not inclined to do surgery at my age, but your point is well taken.
I am Norwood 1-1.5 at my early 40s age. This is something I'm watching closely. I don't need surgery yet for my hair. No bad bald spots yet.

I want to keep my hair as I age.

I want to be perceived as the attractive guy who is the sexual performer in this framework proposed in the thread.

The house is paid off, which is the only reason I keep it. I was stalling on home improvement work because I work a lot of hours (at home). But it can’t wait anymore. I have to make time for the projects.
A paid off house is good.

The appearance of a home from the outside matters a lot and the reputation of the neighborhood.

When I envision your house, I'm envisioning an older house in a mediocre older neighborhood with mainly older housing stock.

Different regions of the USA have different perceptions of the age of housing. You're on the East Coast, where older housing stock is more favorably viewed.

I'm in the Southwestern USA and that region has experienced a lot of growth in recent decades.

In the Southwestern USA, housing from the 1950s-1970s would be considered old and outdated. Women might see homes and apartments from this era and be sexually turned off.

In New York City, a home or apartment from that era isn't perceived as old or outdated because New York City is an older city than Dallas, Houston, Denver, or Phoenix.

100% agree that they disqualify on sex/relationship if the house/apartment is not up to par. Yes, a guy can theoretically get friendzoned or ghosted based on his place alone.
Yes, that can happen and it does happen.

I have had it happen to me in a previous apartment.

Having a top tier physique can help with not getting disqualified over the exterior/interior of housing.

Chick friends don’t mind the house. One even stayed over multiple times.
I don't have any female friends right now. Female friends are less judgmental than potential female dating/sexual options.

The opinions of female friends don't carry that much weight.
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

Read more...

jhonny9546

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 17, 2024
Messages
2,614
Reaction score
549
Location
Italy
Anyway, in my experience:


Between the ages of 14 and 25, the girls who came into my life mostly saw me as an emotional tampon.


Between 25 and 29, most of the women (many of them married) saw me as a lover, but one they would inevitably leave to return to their provider. These days, materialistic attraction and codependency are two of the strongest drugs keeping women in relationships.
As for the other single women, they see me as a good catch for a serious relationship.
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
6,121
Reaction score
4,946
Anyway, in my experience:


Between the ages of 14 and 25, the girls who came into my life mostly saw me as an emotional tampon.


Between 25 and 29, most of the women (many of them married) saw me as a lover, but one they would inevitably leave to return to their provider. These days, materialistic attraction and codependency are two of the strongest drugs keeping women in relationships.
As for the other single women, they see me as a good catch for a serious relationship.
I think you play the role of Prod Jhonny with the amount of questions that you ask.

Whether this relegates you to a life of companionship with cattle is yet to be determined.
 

Divorced w 3

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
3,873
Reaction score
2,521
Forget about love. You are either a provider, protector, performer or a puppet.

On a deeper level especially the performer and puppet are " new" in his space but yet those roles are as old as the sun and earth themselves.

I believe women look for men to fulfill one or more of those roles. Are you aware of your role, do you play accordingly and does it lead to "success" for you?

Let's discuss
Where did you come up with these categories?
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

Read more...

MatureDJ

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
12,733
Reaction score
5,152
How quickly were you dumped? Getting dumped early on before a relationship could reach a point where moving in would be a discussion is one way to avoid living with a woman. It's not the best way to avoid that situation. Your description is a situation where a man seems like to get dropped before he can even have sex in an interaction.

Based on some of your descriptions from multiple threads over time, you seem to get eliminated before the "Define the Relationship" conversations happen in interactions. You were getting eliminated prior to sex in conventional dating.

It seems like a lot of your initial approaches were ignored and the few dates you had were "one date, no sex, no second dates".

A lot of your dates in the United States happened before the rise of the internet-based dating.

According to this framework, you were probably nothing in the United States because your interactions weren't even getting off the ground.

It's possible you were being perceived as a provider (STEM job with some $$) or a puppet.



By this description, it would seem like you would have a much bigger problem than women moving in.

If women see your house, they might get turned off right away and not even want sex with you. They might not even want an exclusive dating relationship with you.

Women can be judgmental in the early stages about a man's home (rented or owned) and his home furnishings. Men have lost sexual opportunities over this.

You have both a home problem and a Norwood scale balding problem to fix in order to get vagina.
Sometimes I was able to sample the Golden Vajaya before getting dumped. Sometimes, the Golden Vajaya closed up shop, in which case I would bail out.
 

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
15,423
Reaction score
12,523
Sometimes I was able to sample the Golden Vajaya before getting dumped. Sometimes, the Golden Vajaya closed up shop, in which case I would bail out.
You did the correct thing in bailing on interactions when sex wasn't going to be a part of the arrangement.

When I think about your time dating in the United States, you seemed like mainly a non-factor in the mating market.

The best thing that you had going for you was your birth year as an early Gen X'er. If you had been born 15-20 years later as a Millennial, you would have had it even worse than you had it. In spite of everything, you did manage to get laid in the USA.

You were dealt a crap hand on height. The all-boys high school and the multiple relocations didn't help either.
 

Barrister

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
2,855
Reaction score
5,081
Age
40
All men are provider/protectors to a certain extent. This is natural and a good thing. You just don’t want to cross the line into a “beta provider” who sacrifices his own self-identity to provide for a woman. You also obviously never want to be a performer or puppet for reasons that don’t even need to be stated.

All that said, these categories are probably an over-simplification of how a man can interact with a woman. There’s grey in between these categories with different subsets.
 

"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

Read more...

Top