What is ESG

2rings

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Is this just the new and worsened version of Affirmative Action?

Are they using it to promote specific segments while blocking other segments from advancing?

How is it treating your future opportunities in life? (Positive or negative)

Are certain cities and states pushing ESG harder or lighter than others?
 

2rings

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Where did ESG originate from?

Was it developed in South Africa before being brought into our once great big cities in the USA?
 

FlirtLife

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I thought ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) started with investing. Governance in this case doesn't mean "the government", but corporate governance. From what I can tell, environmental means a fund doesn't buy oil company stock (e.g. Exxon). Finally, "Social" seems the vaguest of the three. I'd suggest people buy index funds instead of ESG funds.

I have two main problems with ESG. First, not buying Exxon stock doesn't do anything. Exxon isn't watching out for this measure, and they wouldn't know why someone didn't buy their stock. One mitigating factor is that large ESG funds may get the ear of Exxon's CEO, which can influence them. Second, I think direct action and contributions (to charity) matter more than picking an ESG fund over an index fund. It's too easy because it isn't doing much, which lets people off the hook to actually do something meaningful.
 

Fruitbat

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I work in the industry.

ESG got foisted on everyone by regulators worldwide in 2020/21.

It’s an attempt to introduce a form of corporate socialism.
 
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Sustainability has become a huge initiative for 90% of large companies worldwide. Having said that, OP is a troll
 

Murk

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Another tool of the globalists. Mandatory electric cars soon and more carbon tax for faux climate change.

It only truly works on the unwise.
 

Reincarnated

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Basically it's a way for big time money managers (Blackrock, State St., Engine No 1, Jana Partners) as well as large pension funds, to bully the corporate world into operating within the confines of a politically driven agenda. Governments are also getting in on the action.

I had to evaluate the NYSDFS ( New York Dept. Of Financial Services) proposals on climate change regulation in banking, and man it is an absolute overreach of power. They go so far as to link climate change to systemic racism, and then mandate policies that will "remedy" the issue.

A large part of the corporate world goes along with it either because of fear, because of supposed guilt, or because virtue signaling is a way that they can trick the public into ignoring other ways they might be taking advantage of the system.

Woke Inc by Vivek Ramaswamy is a great book on the topic.
 

FlirtLife

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I work in the industry.

ESG got foisted on everyone by regulators worldwide in 2020/21.

It’s an attempt to introduce a form of corporate socialism.
I avoid ESG funds personally since I doubt they're effective.

ESG funds existed before 2020. Many people want to combine investing and values, so numerous companies met that need by adding "ESG" to their name. I assume regulators are trying to define ESG and provide rules for the word's use. Is there something specific you're seeing that goes beyond definition?
 

Fruitbat

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I avoid ESG funds personally since I doubt they're effective.

ESG funds existed before 2020. Many people want to combine investing and values, so numerous companies met that need by adding "ESG" to their name. I assume regulators are trying to define ESG and provide rules for the word's use. Is there something specific you're seeing that goes beyond definition?
the entire concept is that a company, instead of acting 100% in the financial interests of its shareholders now has to prioritise the interests of governments.

You invest in a company and instead of making you returns it pisses away your money trying to achieve things unelected bureaucrats desire.

I’ll give you a direct example. I worked at a company 15 years and was heading to management.

In 2020 they said they had too many male managers and wanted to get 45% female managers (it wae about30%).

so for the next 3 years it was going to be nearly all female promotions, and that’s exactly what they’ve done.

This was due to ESG ratings. I left the company. The woman who got the job has already left (I didn’t even bother applying) and I’ve taken all my customer base somewhere else at great cost to the company. So they ended up with an unqualified manager who’s now been fired and lost about £30m of business.

go figure
 
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the entire concept is that a company, instead of acting 100% in the financial interests of its shareholders now has to prioritise the interests of governments.

You invest in a company and instead of making you returns it pisses away your money trying to achieve things unelected bureaucrats desire.

I’ll give you a direct example. I worked at a company 15 years and was heading to management.

In 2020 they said they had too many male managers and wanted to get 45% female managers (it wae about30%).

so for the next 3 years it was going to be nearly all female promotions, and that’s exactly what they’ve done.

This was due to ESG ratings. I left the company. The woman who got the job has already left (I didn’t even bother applying) and I’ve taken all my customer base somewhere else at great cost to the company. So they ended up with an unqualified manager who’s now been fired and lost about £30m of business.

go figure
What industry do you work for?
 

FlirtLife

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the entire concept is that a company, instead of acting 100% in the financial interests of its shareholders now has to prioritise the interests of governments.

You invest in a company and instead of making you returns it pisses away your money trying to achieve things unelected bureaucrats desire.

I’ll give you a direct example. I worked at a company 15 years and was heading to management.

In 2020 they said they had too many male managers and wanted to get 45% female managers (it wae about30%).

so for the next 3 years it was going to be nearly all female promotions, and that’s exactly what they’ve done.

This was due to ESG ratings. I left the company. The woman who got the job has already left (I didn’t even bother applying) and I’ve taken all my customer base somewhere else at great cost to the company. So they ended up with an unqualified manager who’s now been fired and lost about £30m of business.

go figure
That is a mess. Maybe they should rename ESG to "Environmental - Corporate Socialism - Goverance"?

When they don't promote 70% of existing managers, and pick everyone from the remaining 30%, they have to hire unqualified people. There simply aren't enough qualified female managers to fill the roles.

Have you researched how common this is? If enough companies aim for unqualified managers, that could impact their bottom line in the future (missed schedules, people not doing their job, high turnover). Maybe unqualified management isn't reflected in stock prices yet, providing an arbitrage opportunity (you short companies like your old one, and go long your current company - assuming they are otherwise comparable). Maybe the best revenge is... research.
 

EyeBRollin

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the entire concept is that a company, instead of acting 100% in the financial interests of its shareholders now has to prioritise the interests of governments.
The “interests of governments” is the interest of the people. Maybe consider the state of the people and state of the climate is more important than profit. You can’t make as much money if the world is on fire and the consumers are dead.
 
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The “interests of governments” is the interest of the people. Maybe consider the state of the people and state of the climate is more important than profit. You can’t make as much money if the world is on fire and the consumers are dead.
Nailed it. If you are a large corporation, you are invested in the long term
 

Reincarnated

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The “interests of governments” is the interest of the people. Maybe consider the state of the people and state of the climate is more important than profit. You can’t make as much money if the world is on fire and the consumers are dead.
This is somewhat true, however I don't particularly believe that the interest of the government and the interest of the people are as similar as you might believe. Most of the ESG action in the government is at the level of the bureaucrats (SEC, EPA, etc) which although do take their orders from elected officials, are not elected themselves, and kind of fall outside the control of the public.

The larger problem I find is that many of the new regulations are being rammed through the system without actually proving their legality or logical effectiveness. Just because something is in the best interest of the people/environment, it doesn't give an agency like the SEC a free ticket to circumvent the lawmaking process.
 

Reincarnated

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I avoid ESG funds personally since I doubt they're effective.

ESG funds existed before 2020. Many people want to combine investing and values, so numerous companies met that need by adding "ESG" to their name. I assume regulators are trying to define ESG and provide rules for the word's use. Is there something specific you're seeing that goes beyond definition?
True, ESG-type investment strategies have existed for a long time without the ESG label. For example lots of universities and nonprofits have always had very strict social impact policies on what types of assets their endowments/trusts can invest in. These investors speak with their dollars, which is the way it ought to be.
 

Fruitbat

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That is a mess. Maybe they should rename ESG to "Environmental - Corporate Socialism - Goverance"?

When they don't promote 70% of existing managers, and pick everyone from the remaining 30%, they have to hire unqualified people. There simply aren't enough qualified female managers to fill the roles.

Have you researched how common this is? If enough companies aim for unqualified managers, that could impact their bottom line in the future (missed schedules, people not doing their job, high turnover). Maybe unqualified management isn't reflected in stock prices yet, providing an arbitrage opportunity (you short companies like your old one, and go long your current company - assuming they are otherwise comparable). Maybe the best revenge is... research.
It’s a hard one as the companies that tend to go woke are the really deeply established players. You don’t find smaller players doing it because they can’t afford to.

that’s why they were deep in Twitter, and Facebook and Apple. These are essentially monopolies. These are the companies they go for. My last outfit was very well entrenched. In fact - myself and the “old guard” (mostly white males) built a book of about £50BN over about 16 years. It was really hard and painful work. Once we did all that work, they took a load of nobodies out of admin, who were exclusively minorities or women, and had us “mentor” them (our eventual replacements). The one I was mentoring was a black lady in her 50s. She was really nice but never did anywhere near my level of work. Get this - after a few weeks they kicked ME off the mentoring programme because a woman came forward who wanted to mentor and because I was male I wasn’t “the right fit for the candidate”. So even when I tried to play the game to help them I was unceremoniously told I wasn’t wanted.

These new folks are cheaper than me. That’s why they want them. We did our bit - build the book. Now they want cheap workers to service what we did and to boot there’s woke kudos points.

this is ESG right here. It was exactly like being in Deep South 50s US but roles reversed.

thankfully the company I now work for has a range of workers from different background (I mean that - we have a mix of everyone) but it’s all about merit.

Just keep fighting. As soon as this happened I immediately went job searching, left and told them why. I’m now writing most of my business back and in my opposite corner is a very poorly qualified person.

The people bringing this forward are mostly white guys scoring points
 

BillyPilgrim

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It’s a hard one as the companies that tend to go woke are the really deeply established players. You don’t find smaller players doing it because they can’t afford to.

that’s why they were deep in Twitter, and Facebook and Apple. These are essentially monopolies. These are the companies they go for. My last outfit was very well entrenched. In fact - myself and the “old guard” (mostly white males) built a book of about £50BN over about 16 years. It was really hard and painful work. Once we did all that work, they took a load of nobodies out of admin, who were exclusively minorities or women, and had us “mentor” them (our eventual replacements). The one I was mentoring was a black lady in her 50s. She was really nice but never did anywhere near my level of work. Get this - after a few weeks they kicked ME off the mentoring programme because a woman came forward who wanted to mentor and because I was male I wasn’t “the right fit for the candidate”. So even when I tried to play the game to help them I was unceremoniously told I wasn’t wanted.

These new folks are cheaper than me. That’s why they want them. We did our bit - build the book. Now they want cheap workers to service what we did and to boot there’s woke kudos points.

this is ESG right here. It was exactly like being in Deep South 50s US but roles reversed.

thankfully the company I now work for has a range of workers from different background (I mean that - we have a mix of everyone) but it’s all about merit.

Just keep fighting. As soon as this happened I immediately went job searching, left and told them why. I’m now writing most of my business back and in my opposite corner is a very poorly qualified person.

The people bringing this forward are mostly white guys scoring points
I'm kinda guessing that by "book", you mean "client base"

"White" guys scoring point huh?

I think a notable difference between ESG and the Deep South is that everyone knew what the South was about. It wasn't twistedly sold as a fairy tale.
 
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