( . )( . ) said:
:crazy: Most guys generally show a modicum of emotion when being bent over and told to take the high hard one with a smile OR ELSE, do we really need the wait_outs and the slicksters standing off to the side shaming them for not enjoying it? This is not healthy behaviour .
Come on wait_out, after you get your T-levels checked you can come join the cause, with numbers men have been known to topple Governments and build nations would you believe it?
Those guys who "topple governments and build nations" are almost always inspirational. If we go from ignorant to enlightened:
1) I can't see beyond what I'm told
2) I can see how I'm been manipulated/betrayed
3) I can see a brighter future, and you should follow me there
The manosphere has been spinning its wheels for years on #2. Who has reached #3?
Here's the core problem that has yet to be resolved -- the fact that most people in good relationships LOVE each other, and later their kids if they have them. That's a massive black hole in both feminists/MGTOW types : there's an underlying current of contempt, anger, and "zero-sum" maneuvering that's absolutely fatal to our inevitable human flaws. It's a movement towards seeing our potential partners as political entities rather than people. LiveFreeX said this in his other thread, "Something the West has lost, is the ability for people to work together and trust each other," that is probably more true in relationships than anywhere else. There is so much anger, frustration, confusion, and ultimately loneliness out there -- is this ultimately the community you want to live in?
I almost always come back to
the Prisoner's Dilemma. To summarize briefly, Feminism played the defection card, MRA-PUA was the subsequent tit-for-tat "payback", and now we're reaching a certain level of "equality" through mutual defection.
Mutual defection, though, is not victory; cooperation is the only way you can "win" in the long term with someone you love, and don't want to exploit. The issue then is how to make more "cooperators" in the world. I think ultimately the solution is to teach feminists and their male mirrors that putting a political ideology over people is madness. Hanna Rosin ("The End of Men") has 2 young boys who have show distress over her views; maybe she is unbalanced enough to put her views before her family, but I don't believe most women would make that choice.
If you think I'm taking the feminist side of issues, you don't understand. It's not about one side "winning" or "losing", it's about moving beyond the concept of sides altogether. Here is the test :
What will a good woman say, if you ask "are you on the side of the feminists or the MRA's?"
She will answer, "my family."