"Waiting" as DJ

[wait_out]

Oooh I want in on the flame war.

I will just leave two links here and then keep below the wall.

1) http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...107/how-ruin-your-life-devalue-more-you-value

Interest VS Resentment
Enjoyment VS Anger
Appreciation VS Depression
Trust VS Contempt
Love VS Disgust
Compassion VS Hatred

Fingz figured this out too long ago of course.

2) http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=143697

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, make your own decisions.

 

[( . )( . )]

Oooh I want in on the flame war.

I will just leave two links here and then keep below the wall.

1) http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201107/how-ruin-your-life-devalue-more-you-value

Interest VS Resentment
Enjoyment VS Anger
Appreciation VS Depression
Trust VS Contempt
Love VS Disgust
Compassion VS Hatred

Fingz figured this out too long ago of course.

2) http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=143697

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, make your own decisions.

Hey that's all fine man, but there's got to be a line surely?

I can admit it, I do get angry at "men" shame labelling other men as "losers who can't get laid" or his other go to favourite "WOMAN HATER" for showing concern about false rape allegation,biased legal system etc etc or who gosh darn it just might want a better future for their sons and who dare *GASP* discuss it.

That shaming sh!ts fine for women, they are serving their best interests obviously but for a supposed "man" to take up the cause? I personally think it's disgusting, then again maybe I'm batsh!t crazy and talking out my ass who knows. Maybe there's some grand design behind why he does it that I just don't get.

 

[wait_out]

Tits man, you do seem pretty angry. I've learned somewhere that you personally got a pretty rough deal in court, so I can see where it's coming from, but you still gotta live though right?

I can't say I'd do better than you in your position, I have gotten undeservedly lucky in escaping bad relationship/job/family dynamics, but negativity almost unfailingly wrecks people in deep ways.

You can't be careful enough these days -- but that can become it's own problem, you know?

And for slick, myself, and everyone else taking turns ragging on you guys, maybe we could smoke the peace pipe with you gents over Xmas, at the end of the day we are all humans and pretty much all have the same hopes and dreams. I just think it's a toxic philosophy, and maybe I get a little TOO righteous about it. It doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see you all happy.

 

[( . )( . )]

Tits man, you do seem pretty angry.

Only at you few kneecapping anomalies. Generally I'm as happy as a homo with 2 *******s believe it or not, have you not seen my joviality and rapier-like wit?

 

[wait_out]

Only at you few kneecapping anomalies. Generally I'm as happy as a homo with 2 *******s believe it or not, have you not seen my joviality and rapier-like wit?

Still counts though. You don't get a "limp wristed enabling mangina with your transparent liberal snark shaming attitude" exception, anger is anger.

Which is one thing I need to back off of as well.

 

[( . )( . )]

Still counts though.

:crazy: Most guys generally show a modicum of emotion when being bent over and told to take the high hard one with a smile OR ELSE, do we really need the wait_outs and the slicksters standing off to the side shaming them for not enjoying it? This is not healthy behaviour .

Come on wait_out, after you get your T-levels checked you can come join the cause, with numbers men have been known to topple Governments and build nations would you believe it?

 

[Jitterbug]

Women tend to mistake men's passion for anger. They'd say "you seem angry" to attempt to shut down the debate in their favour, as if being angry (even assuming the man actually is) somehow invalidates the man's point.

We're men talking among ourselves here. Don't use women's debate tactics.

 

[Desdinova]

There is such a negative stigma here about waiting for sex. It's weak, it's AFC, it's too Christian, et al. But what are those criticisms based on??

Been there, done that.

Women have a list of things they need to check off when they enter a relationship. Sex is one of them, and for the non-Christian-virgin, it's high up on the list. It lets them know that they can proceed. When you hold back sex from a woman for too long, they get frustrated with waiting and even bored. They're going to either dump your ass and move on, or they'll find a guy to fulfill that need.

Three dates is the ideal amount to wait until you give a woman sex. I personally like to take it a step further and make her wait four.

 

[samspade]

If I could bang her now why would I wait? I wouldn't have approached her if I didn't want to fvck her so what possible logic is behind waiting other than a nasty bout of gas or already drained balls from a previous chick?

It is up to you.

 

[wait_out]

:crazy: Most guys generally show a modicum of emotion when being bent over and told to take the high hard one with a smile OR ELSE, do we really need the wait_outs and the slicksters standing off to the side shaming them for not enjoying it? This is not healthy behaviour .

Come on wait_out, after you get your T-levels checked you can come join the cause, with numbers men have been known to topple Governments and build nations would you believe it?

Those guys who "topple governments and build nations" are almost always inspirational. If we go from ignorant to enlightened:

1) I can't see beyond what I'm told
2) I can see how I'm been manipulated/betrayed
3) I can see a brighter future, and you should follow me there

The manosphere has been spinning its wheels for years on #2. Who has reached #3?

Here's the core problem that has yet to be resolved -- the fact that most people in good relationships LOVE each other, and later their kids if they have them. That's a massive black hole in both feminists/MGTOW types : there's an underlying current of contempt, anger, and "zero-sum" maneuvering that's absolutely fatal to our inevitable human flaws. It's a movement towards seeing our potential partners as political entities rather than people. LiveFreeX said this in his other thread, "Something the West has lost, is the ability for people to work together and trust each other," that is probably more true in relationships than anywhere else. There is so much anger, frustration, confusion, and ultimately loneliness out there -- is this ultimately the community you want to live in?

I almost always come back to the Prisoner's Dilemma. To summarize briefly, Feminism played the defection card, MRA-PUA was the subsequent tit-for-tat "payback", and now we're reaching a certain level of "equality" through mutual defection.

Mutual defection, though, is not victory; cooperation is the only way you can "win" in the long term with someone you love, and don't want to exploit. The issue then is how to make more "cooperators" in the world. I think ultimately the solution is to teach feminists and their male mirrors that putting a political ideology over people is madness. Hanna Rosin ("The End of Men") has 2 young boys who have show distress over her views; maybe she is unbalanced enough to put her views before her family, but I don't believe most women would make that choice.

If you think I'm taking the feminist side of issues, you don't understand. It's not about one side "winning" or "losing", it's about moving beyond the concept of sides altogether. Here is the test :

What will a good woman say, if you ask "are you on the side of the feminists or the MRA's?"

She will answer, "my family."

 

[Colossus]

I keep wanting to chime back in but I realized there is nothing left to say. This is just my philosophy with approaching sex these days. I feel it's better, but you don't have to. It's really not a "right or wrong" issue. Do whatever tickles your pickle.

 

[Slickster]

Hey that's all fine man, but there's got to be a line surely?

I can admit it, I do get angry at "men" shame labelling other men as "losers who can't get laid" or his other go to favourite "WOMAN HATER" for showing concern about false rape allegation,biased legal system etc etc or who gosh darn it just might want a better future for their sons and who dare *GASP* discuss it.

That shaming sh!ts fine for women, they are serving their best interests obviously but for a supposed "man" to take up the cause? I personally think it's disgusting, then again maybe I'm batsh!t crazy and talking out my ass who knows. Maybe there's some grand design behind why he does it that I just don't get.

Hi (.)(.)

I'm not trying to shame anyone. I'm calling people out for making excuses. Every single day this site is bombarded with posts about how fvcked up women are and how society is a mess. I take issue because letting those things get in our way is not what being a DJ is about. We all have our obstacles. Hell we even had a guy in a wheelchair asking for advice the other day. The point of this site is to rise above and improve our lives. Our perceptions of the world around us must remain positive.

Acknowledging the negatives (feminism, bad behaviour of women, atrocities against men, etc) is fine but when it becomes a bloody crusade against these things it damages the primary focus of this site. Far too often the tone here is dominated by such negative things.

An analogy might be a going to a Health and Fitness forum that is dominated by anti fast food posts. Umm...yeah its good to know that fast food is evil but where is the help on how to get fit?

Here we are trying to teach guys how to get better with women but we bog down the forum with woman bashing propaganda. I know the goal is to provide enlightenment but the result seems to be bitterness and negativity and for some probably despair and hopelessness. How much of it actually helps a budding DJ improve his life? Does reading about a guy getting screwed over in a bogus sexual harassment case help anyone here? Sure, probably about as much as telling a fat guy if he wants to get fit he should stop eating cheeseburgers.


I feel bad for getting involved in a flame war with you (.)(.) and some of the other guys on the forum. Its not like I support any of the things you are fighting against I just don't like the way it is presented and don't even think its relevant to the actual goal of the site. If it was all posted in a separate Men's rights section i wouldnt even care. As it is, I think it poisons everything the site is about and undermines the countless hours of work every DJ before us has put in.

I know its up to the mods to decide the direction of the site but it just sucks to see such an inspirational place become so stifled and discouraging. I'm sure many will disagree with what I've written here but ask yourselves, how many of these negative posts are in the DJ bible? Better yet, if you open the bible and the Mature man forum at the same time, do the two belong on the same website?

 

[( . )( . )]

I'm sure many will disagree with what I've written here but ask yourselves, how many of these negative posts are in the DJ bible?

Self improvement, learning how to handle women and knowing what's going on with our current male/female dynamic are all topics men discuss amongst themselves, maybe it's time to put on the big boy pants and deal with it? No need to get sand in your ladyflower whenever you hear about the icky parts. It's not all rainbows and butterflies. Think about it. How professional is it going to look when and if your son comes to you in 16 years with a false rape allegation hanging over his head from some chick who woke up with a bad hangover and buyers remorse? You going to attempt to shame him into silence aswell? I don't think that will work.

undermines the countless hours of work every DJ before us has put in.

Don't flatter yourself too much, I've seen the guys discussing this stuff helping out noobs just as much as anyone else if not more so, and guess what? they do it without the liberal snark.

I know its up to the mods to decide the direction of the site but it just sucks to see such an inspirational place become so stifled and discouraging.

What are you dropping hints for the mods now? Be a sad day at SS when you highly strung lefties stifle any discussion that's not deemed politically correct. Plus side for you I guess is you won't have guys like me telling you to go stuff your progressive sensibilities in a sack Mister.

 

[Down Low]

I don't see the point of c0ck blocking yourself. Once you've won her to your bed, you've won. Making her wait several months is like spiking the ball on the one yard line. You haven't scored yet, and if you act like that, all you'll get for your showing off is a loss of possession.

I would put d1ck strike in the same category of mistake as, say, talking dirty on a first date. Both behaviors suggest that you'll be much worse once you get used to her and don't try so much to hide your bad side.

WTF is this hue and cry about "negativity?" Pointing out the negative aspects of women is a necessary part of working out solutions.

 

[Lexington]

I disagree with just about all of that.

I think the main premise lies here:


The majority of us approach new women with the full intention of having sex with them.

I can't think of a single reason as to why any man would want to LEAD the waiting game when he decided he's attracted to the girl and would want to have sex with her eventually.

I can imagine there can be complications due to religious background, health issues, kids, trust issues and so on - but they are rightfully exceptions and do not apply to the majority.



Well that's a different point entirely. Not minding waiting is OK - but you realize that it's a concession, not a decision that's made on your terms.

You are basically saying that if she's more of a big fish than I usually catch; I can cling to it a little more than I usually do to others.

That's fine - the point remains that you WANT to have sex with her, and you CAN'T, and you are being held in a position on HER terms.

Would you believe it? Boilermaker actually has it right!

If you've got enough good plates, you will have no need to ever wait. If one of the girls on the rotation isn't giving it up, you can kick her to the curb and get with one or more of the others.

Why would you ever want to wait? I can understand holding off on the first or second date. But by date number 3, you should have a good idea about whether or not you want to boink this broad or not.

That fact that the OP is worried about pvssy messing with his clarity of thought proves that he still doesn't have an abundance mentality about it.

 

[Boilermaker]

Oh it appears, my brutally objective style hasn't slashed your heavily ego-infested beliefs this time...!

Good !

Oh, Boilermaker, please don't start on that "ganja" bashing again, it reaaally hurts me inside.

OK, dear pothead.

 

[wait_out]

Pointing out the negative aspects of women is a necessary part of working out solutions.

The issue is simply when "pointing out the negative aspects" becomes the end in itself, rather than the means to "working out solutions".

As SL said, anger can be a virtue, which is true, it can be energizing and drive you to make changes. Chronic anger or chronic negativity, or chronic devaluation is different though, which is why I linked that psych article.

As to why it's so important, here is a C&P from the GirlsChase blog:

Understanding Value and Positive Feelings

A few decades ago a man named Norman Vincent Peale wrote a worldwide bestselling book called The Power of Positive Thinking. We’ve actually already covered the first part of this book, which is understanding your goals. If you have an unshakable belief in the fact that you will succeed, and look at failure as a learning opportunity, you will always have a positive outlook on life. This outlook will not only enrich you as a person, but also make women take notice.

Women are naturally insecure beings. You will find that even in the most confident and self-assured woman, there is one thing or another – physically, mentally or emotionally – that she is self-conscious about…and that is where you come in. In my last post, I talked about the power of inspiration - and it’s from the power of positivity that inspiration draws its power in influencing others and creating attraction in them.

The second part of Norman Peale’s message is that people are attracted to those individuals who give them positive feelings. As Ricardus has discussed, people chase emotions. They look to be validated by others – these feelings dictate attraction and how quickly we fall in love. That is why it is of the utmost importance to be able to create emotions within yourself. Once you are able to create emotions within yourself, you can stir them in other people.

Even the worst assh*les on earth go by this same philosphy at first; create amazing feelings in a woman and she will want to be with you. You don't have to be the assh*le but if you can't create those feelings you will get blown out by someone who can. They may not be positive people, but they can evoke those positive emotions in women. So can a good man, it is just a skill you need to train. Unless you are a psychopath or NPD though, you will need to believe in something positive about dating. Trying to roleplay a callous user will eventually burn most people out.

I understand looking unflinchingly into what women are capable of -- but being positive in the end for me is a strategic choice to improve my life.

And if SS in unrelentingly negative, I'm going to cut it out of my life, despite once getting a lot of value out of it -- that's Law 10 from the 48 Laws of power.

 

[Slickster]

Don't flatter yourself too much, I've seen the guys discussing this stuff helping out noobs just as much as anyone else if not more so, and guess what? they do it without the liberal snark.

You've seen OTHER guys helping but what about you? A quick look at your post history doesn't come up with much. In fact if you go back to the beginning of your time here this flame war scenario just plays itself out over and over and over. You've been doing this exact same thing for TEN years! Guys have being confronting you about being negative and whining and you've been responding with pvssy and f@ggot insults since 2003!!! The other trend I notice in your posts is that there is very little discussion. Just harsh statements and attacks directed at anyone who voices a different opinion. I don't want to make a career out of this. I don't even know what to say except I'm done. The limited time I spend on this site will be spent helping my fellow DJs. I'm not saying any of this to be insulting. You obviously are who you are and your purpose here is what it is.

I did find one interesting thread started by you back in 2005. This is not meant as an attack Tits. Maybe just a reminder of different times or a different perspective.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=79217

An epiphany?
Wow that really was a long,lets call it "mourning period" of holding a grudge towards women.

I woke this morning with another bad hangover and a strange humbling feeling like i saw the light and a weight was lifted off my shoulders.

I often preached that this is just how women are and just her nature and to blame them is wrong, but I never actually felt it and believed it in my bones and accepted it until now.

Its a good feeling.

I love women for how they are, can anyone else say that and truthfully understand what I'm saying?.

Whats that you say? she burnt you in front of all her friends? EXCELLENT!! God bless that woman, If you didnt repulse her so much you should give her a kiss and a hug for just being a woman.

Perhaps now I can get some of those "movie feelings" I had as an AFC back.

I also found some comments about the problems you've been having trying to see your daughter. That seriously sucks Tits. I can't even imagine how tough that is. I don't know the whole story but don't give up man. You've gotta see her! Hopefully that is your primary focus. I know I would go to the ends of the earth.

Peace out Tits

Good luck

 

[Slickster]

Why would you ever want to wait?

To build attraction when the ultimate goal is more than just sex.

I guess if sex is all you care about then waiting would seem stupid. Some guys want more however. For the guys who do have the ability to manipulate a woman's emotions this becomes a valuable tool. You can obviously take it too far and lose the moment but if you are good you can work the sexual tension to your advantage.

Think of it like make-up sex. That great sex you have after the relationship was placed in question. Making her wait places the relationship in question. When you do finally have sex it can be amazing as she now has something to prove. Some of the best sex I've had in my life is after I turned a girl down. Women rarely encounter a man who will reject them sexually. They will do anything to please you after that. But hey, if you don't know, you don't know.

 

[zekko]

To build attraction when the ultimate goal is more than just sex.

I see it more like building sexual tension when attraction already exists. Kind of like taking your time and savoring a very good meal. Stretching out the interaction to build some anticipation. As opposed to just stuffing the whole thing in your mouth at once and swallowing it whole like a dog. How about chewing it a few times so you can actually taste it?

Of course, as I said before, in my example I only made her wait until the second date, so that's not the same as putting it off for months. First date makeout, cop a feel, some genital stimulation. Second date complete the transaction.

But I understand maybe that's not for everyone, maybe the girl means nothing to them, or maybe they just can't wait to carve the notch on their bedpost, I don't know. Some people will say "why would you wait?" and I can see that. But other people might say "What's the big rush?".