US soldier throws puppy from cliff

[joekerr31]

Aboleo, our whole stance is against people having a disrespect for life in general.

And, cruelty is just straight up wrong.

No offense, but your stance is the same stance that americans had toward africans one hundred years ago. "Oh, he killed a black guy, he should only get a fine because he didn't kill a white guy." "Oh yeah, that black guy has feelings too, etc etc etc"

Do you see our stance now?

what makes us human is our ability to regulate our violent natures and to live by higher standards of conduct. those who don't, are in my opinion, inhuman.

a cat will torture a mouse. it will bat it around for some time before it kills the mouse. we can't hate the cat for this, because its in the cats nature, it has no clue what its doing is right or wrong.

but we as humans DO know, this is what makes us special. and humans who KNOW they shouldn't be doing things like this, and do it anyone, are basically very sick in the head.

just like our base nature would be to continue having black people as slaves. but we know this is wrong so we condemn the practice. our ability to rise above the cruelty of nature is what makes us human. and without it we are nothing more than animals (and one of the most cruel animals on the planet to boot).

 

[wootapotky]

sociopathy and psychopathy are the same thing. kind of like fat and chunky are the same thing, jsut 2 different words.

Yeah, I wasn't sure at first and suspected that they were the same thing, but after googling it I've seen several sites which state that there is a difference. Including one site with a reference to an article Robert Hare wrote in 96. I'm going to read them because this subject is pretty fascinating to say the least.

 

[ezily]

dude, i have a university degree in psychology. you think im bullsh*tting but im not.

if you could see me right now you'd see me laughing my *ss off watching someone that knows nothing pretend like he knows something.

sure, i believe you. but my opinion on psychology is that it's a pretty easy ****ing degree to get. So don't think all high and mighty of yourself if what you say is true. psychology major :crackup: what a waste of time. taking classes is OK but major? They aren't even real doctors.

and no from what I've been taught they are not exactly the same. psychopathy is a non-DSM category similar it ASPD but puts less emphasis on overt behavior (i.e. psychologists, not doctors, try to infer).

 

[joekerr31]

ok im going to bed. this thread has run its course for me.

in short, if you think torturing and killing animals for fun is ok I think you have some serious psychological issues.

 

[joekerr31]

Yeah, I wasn't sure at first and suspected that they were the same thing, but after googling it I've seen several sites which state that there is a difference. Including one site with a reference to an article Robert Hare wrote in 96. I'm going to read them because this subject is pretty fascinating to say the least.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Dm8IkyOlQ&mode=related&search=

heres a perfect example of a psychopath / sociopath. sick folks.

 

[Poonani Maker]

The puppy dog was giving away the soldiers' position.

 

[edger]

and yes, there are folks who will say 'we kill chickens, whats the difference.' the difference is that

1) we kill chickens out of necessity (for food).
2) even though we kill them, we expect chicken farmers to inflict the minimal amount of pain on them possible until such time as they die.

I love this backwards logic. "We kill out of necessity for food, we expect people to inflict the least amount of pain as posssible on the animal". YOU ARE STILL KILLING. The animal STILL FEELS PAIN. The animal deserves and is entiltled to live just like you and me. You are taking a life, killing an animal that wants to live just like you and me. Taking the life of an animal that has a family out there like you and me. My motto in life is "to live and let live".

For carnivores(Lions, Wolves, etc.) it's a whole differnt story as they have no choice but to kill for food. They can't cultivate crops the way we do.

 

[iqqi]

I love this backwards logic. "We kill out of necessity for food, we expect people to inflict the least amount of pain as posssible on the animal". YOU ARE STILL KILLING. The animal STILL FEELS PAIN. The animal deserves and is entiltled to live just like you and me. You are taking a life, killing an animal that wants to live just like you and me. Taking the life of an animal that has a family out there like you and me. My motto in life is "to live and let live".

For carnivores(Lions, Wolves, etc.) it's a whole differnt story as they have no choice but to kill for food. They can't cultivate crops the way we do.

This does conflict me.

But dammit, I love meat.
















I know I left that wiiiide open...

 

[KontrollerX]

"We do not know why the soldier killed the puppy, but we think that it is for fun. I think that killing has become so ingrained in the psyche of that soldier that he simply cannot differentiate between killing and killing. Note the reaction of the accompanying soldier, he simply says "oh that's mean". Judging from the reaction of the guys on the board, this is not "normal" behavior either."

Yeah it could be the case that the training and stress has turned these guys into sickos.

You definitely could be onto something and this could be the reason.

Alternatively though you have to keep in mind that once a war gets rolling a lot of socios and general sickos decide it would be great fun to join up and see what they can get away with under the cloak of "being a hero for the red, white and blue".

You have to keep in mind natural born sickos like this want to kill and get away with it, they want to abuse animals and torture people and not have anyone tell them its wrong or stop them and throw them in prison or a mental institution for the criminally insane where they belong and what better time and place to do this and probably get away with it then in a chaotic unjust war they reason?

Its sociopathy 101 ie put on the mask of the good guy that society believes in, then do all of your evil deeds under the cloak of normalcy and heroism and if you are caught blame it on stress or combat craziness or whatever.

Ultra far right neocon fascist crazies (like some of the kids in this thread) will buy the sociopath's tale of woe because their mindset is the same as the sociopath's and they don't see anything wrong with the sociopathic soldier's behaviour as a result.

While conscience possessing true republican conservatives ie the real members of the currently hijacked republican party will be horrified and demand the soldier be removed from the combat zone and punished accordingly.

 

[iqqi]

"We do not know why the soldier killed the puppy, but we think that it is for fun. I think that killing has become so ingrained in the psyche of that soldier that he simply cannot differentiate between killing and killing. Note the reaction of the accompanying soldier, he simply says "oh that's mean". Judging from the reaction of the guys on the board, this is not "normal" behavior either."

Yeah it could be the case that the training and stress has turned these guys into sickos.

You definitely could be onto something and this could be the reason.

Alternatively though you have to keep in mind that once a war gets rolling a lot of socios and general sickos decide it would be great fun to join up and see what they can get away with under the cloak of "being a hero for the red, white and blue".

You have to keep in mind natural born sickos like this want to kill and get away with it, they want to abuse animals and torture people and not have anyone tell them its wrong or stop them and throw them in prison or a mental institution for the criminally insane where they belong and what better time and place to do this and probably get away with it then in a chaotic unjust war they reason?

Its sociopathy 101 ie put on the mask of the good guy that society believes in, then do all of your evil deeds under the cloak of normalcy and heroism and if you are caught blame it on stress or combat craziness or whatever.

Ultra far right neocon fascist crazies (like some of the kids in this thread) will buy the sociopath's tale of woe because their mindset is the same as the sociopath's and they don't see anything wrong with the sociopathic soldier's behaviour as a result.

While conscience possessing true republican conservatives ie the real members of the currently hijacked republican party will be horrified and demand the soldier be removed from the combat zone and punished accordingly.

This is also the same as when a murderer or rapist has a history of being the abused.

Yes it is sad, and it is most definately a factor in how they turned out, if not the REASON. However, it does not excuse their actions.

Many humans are sick. Sad, but true.
Most people in prison did vile crimes, due to their own issues with something that happened to them.

But crimes they commit cannot be tolerated or excused.

 

[edger]

This does conflict me.

But dammit, I love meat.

Yeah I love meat too, but it's wrong on so many levels to kill for food. It's demoralizing. We as people have the alternative to survive perfectly well on a vegetarian diet. I'm doing it 8 yrs now and couldn't feel more healthier and full of energy. Humans don't need meat to survive and sustain a healthy life. Many doctors and people in the health care industry even acknowledge that. Even dogs are being fed vegetarian diets.

 

[iqqi]

Yeah I love meat too, but it's soooo wrong to kill for food when we as people have the alternative to survive perfectly well on a vegetarian diet. I'm doing it 8 yrs now and couldn't feel more healthier and full of energy. Humans don't need meat to survive and sustain a healthy life. Many doctors and people in the health care industry even acknowledge that. Even dogs are being fed vegetarian diets.

I don't know what I would do if I could never eat a steak again.

Or a hamburger, OMG. Or a hot dog. Or a philly cheese steak. I am getting hungry! The only thing I love more than meat (well maybe not MORE, but equally) is fruit.

And don't get me started on seafood.

 

[Andromax]

Humans don't need meat to survive and sustain a healthy life. Many doctors and people in the health care industry even acknowledge that.

I love vegetarians.

In fact I sponsor them.

For every animal you dont eat, I will eat 2.

I love tasty animals.

I live in Alaska. I hunt, I even trap. I've killed wolves. (they're over populated!)

It's perfectly natural sport.

I respect animals immensely.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, just expressing my views.

What is your opinion on killing fish?

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Wow. Joekerr.

Gently, sir.


lol

 

[thehexman]

This is also the same as when a murderer or rapist has a history of being the abused.

Yes it is sad, and it is most definately a factor in how they turned out, if not the REASON. However, it does not excuse their actions.

Many humans are sick. Sad, but true.
Most people in prison did vile crimes, due to their own issues with something that happened to them.

But crimes they commit cannot be tolerated or excused.

True. That's why I want to post the last 2 paragraphs again ( I think maybe people got tired after reading my long post, but I was developing my opinion while typing).

I actually feel sorry for both the soldier and the puppy. The puppy has lost its life, and the soldier has lost his ability to tell the difference between good and evil. I don't want to justify his actions, but I believe that he is testimony of why war is such a terrible thing.

We have certain rules in our society that apply to all of us. They are called laws, enforced by officials and interpreted by legal professionals. Soldiers are, in my opinion, part of normal society, but in a legal sense not, as they have their own juridisction (military law). I think he should be held accountable for his actions while at the same time considering his reintegration into "normal" social behavior.

I think also that the last sentence, taken correctly, would make for a better criminal justice system. I mean to say that, in addition to locking criminals up, we should also try to understand why they commited their crimes and try to help them. Especially the violent criminals are deeply mentally ill (for the moment I'm not including criminals that steal money for food or someting like that. I'm talking about brutal, unnecessary crimes). Society and they would be better served if some time were invested in their issues.

 

[ketostix]

Well I can't really know for sure if the puppy was alive or if it was even a real puppy. It could've been a convincingly looking uh teddy bear or doll or whatever. It's possible the puppy was stranded and the soldiers were order to kill it humanely and a soldier took it upon himself to do it in an ornery way. I don't know. But whoever posted this feeds into those who want to discredit this US military. But keep in mind, there's more stories of soldiers rescuing and nursing back to health dogs and adopting them and spending thousands of dollars and going through a lot of red tape to have them shipped to the US from Iraq-a place where dogs are not treated humanely by the Iraqis. Also the military will punish severly anyone they catch commiting animal cruelty. I'm not "pro war" evn, just putting some perspective on it.

Also I disagree that humans are naturally herbivorous or vegetarian. Humans are naturally omnivorious and it is difficult and inefficient for them as a species to get proper nutrition from plant sources. Humans are part of the food chain as ominvors. But I believe in humane treatment of all animals. I think there's different types of animals though. There are cattle and deer who are animals of prey. And then theres animals like dogs, besides the fact they are intelligent and are pets, which are not animals of prey. I think it's very strange that some cultures would eat dogs for example.

 

[KarmaSutra]

I do have a question though. Do you value the life of a human over the life of a dog?

No. Humans have choice. Dogs, by nature, are bred to help us in our lives. To comfort us and assist us.

I fvcking loathe people. If I had to choose to shoot either The Pope over a puppy, The Pope would be writing his name on the black book of death.

 

[iqqi]

No. Humans have choice. Dogs, by nature, are bred to help us in our lives. To comfort us and assist us.

I fvcking loathe people. If I had to choose to shoot either The Pope over a puppy, The Pope would be writing his name on the black book of death.

Well I am glad someone kind of gets it.

(Feels comforted and not so alone...)

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Dogs, by nature, are bred to help us in our lives. To comfort us and assist us.

That's a nice disney cuddly way to think about, but it just ain't true. Puppies evolved into the cute domestic creatures they are because the MOST un-alpha dogs hung around on the outskirs of early human settlements and ate the leftovers. Over time dogs learned (as a species through evolution) that humans = free food, and they became (again, as a species through evolution) more and more docile because it was the best way for them to survive. Any "comfort" or cuteness or cuddliness is merely a human projection. They just did a study here in japan with real dogs vs. robot dogs living with old people, and they found that the robot dogs were just as effective in "comforting" people as real dogs.

This thread has been a pretty entertaining read, though.

Taiyuu

 

[KarmaSutra]

You're full of fvcking sh!t and you know it.

At night when you go to bed is a robotic dog going to feel the same as a real one lying next to you with it's tail rhythmically beating on the bed?

I didn't think so. And as far as your statement about dogs seeing people as "free food", this is also a crock pot full of diarheah. Dogs aren't born looking for a bowl of Purina. We condition them to know where to go for food, where to piss and how to not jump on the couch.

You can't teach a puppy to NOT love you unconditionally.