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Thoughts on gf who did it all backwards

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

Tony be careful about seeking perfection. No woman is going to be perfect in her 30s. It sounds like she is a relationship type woman who was essentially locked down in LTRs during her teens & twenties and has been dating around since then...

If she is a gorgeous model type she has had men throwing themselves at her all her life. It’s a strange landscape & very different than what ordinary people experience.

You have good parents and a solid family example, a solid marriage example. Have you talked with your dad about your concerns?

Her personality seems pretty even keeled from what you have said. She seems stable and kind. Finding a beautiful woman who is stable and kind is no small accomplishment. And she works with children and her nieces & nephews adore her?

Also keep your own counsel. I just read a thread the other day where the board was saying to a dude (who has started dating a really shy, old fashioned, sexually conservative woman with very little experience), and the board says essentially “She’s a prude who doesn’t like sex...don’t invest your time more than a couple months...she’s gonna be a starfish...” etc.

Facepalm.

This is the thing about this forum. Guy finds a conservative woman? The board says she’s a prude if she won’t fvck after a few dates. BUT if you find a woman who will fvck after a few dates? Well then she’s a w h o r e and the board says you ought not invest time in her. You cannot win.

Therefore you must keep your own counsel. If a woman is seeking a relationship in today’s market she knows sex will be on the table sooner rather than later. If she is beautiful she will have lots of men who want her sexually. If she is more plain looking that is less the case.

So you for whatever reason are sort of punishing her for being beautiful and having more opportunities than you can imagine. Maybe she values sex and doesn’t want a subpar sexual experience with her partner. I can’t fault her for that really. Would you stay in a sexless relationship for months only to discover your partner sucks as a lover, leaving you wanting/wondering about others all the time? No? Why fault a woman for this? But that’s sort of what you are doing.

I for example just ended a relationship that was approaching the 3 month mark. Why? He wasn’t willing to be exclusive and the sexual experience wasn’t fulfilling. He’s also narcissistic and abusive as I was finding as I observed his behavior more & more (he would gaslight, project and act hateful and refused accountability for his nasty behavior toward myself and others). So I’m out.

A couple of my buddies witnessed a bout of his unhingedness...they were like, “BE, he’s a fun, cool dude, but that behavior is only going to get worse...that boy is fvcked up and you aren’t going to fix him...”. And they are correct.

But I slept with him. It is what it is. Does that make me loose? No. Does that make me unable to bond? No. Does that damage me? No. I liked him a great deal (still do) but he isn’t the right man for me. In time I expect we will be friends. If we are, fine...if we aren’t, fine. We seek different things (and I’m not tolerating abuse from him or anyone)...

I’ve already been on a great date with someone else. So the vetting process starts over again. That’s simply the deal with dating. I don’t carry baggage around from one situation to the next. It sounds like your gf doesn’t either. That means she’s emotionally open to you. Don’t punish her for that.

You can go find a different woman of course but that different woman is going to have her issues too. Nobody is perfect. Look at character. How do you feel about her character? How easy is finding another woman with her same level of attractiveness in combination with her character?

Can you sit her down and point blank address your concerns? Have you discussed her partner count, her dating men with girlfriends, her “party years” with her? Be mature and have that conversation. You need to know whatever you need to know and find out what she has to say about it rather than make assumptions. You’ll learn from what she says and you’ll learn from what she doesn’t say.

You are the one in the relationship. You know her. We cannot. Not like you do. Why not have the conversation before you dismiss based on assumptions?

Food for thought.
 

TonyTenner

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Advice from the old lady:

Tony be careful about seeking perfection. No woman is going to be perfect in her 30s. It sounds like she is a relationship type woman who was essentially locked down in LTRs during her teens & twenties and has been dating around since then...

If she is a gorgeous model type she has had men throwing themselves at her all her life. It’s a strange landscape & very different than what ordinary people experience.

You have good parents and a solid family example, a solid marriage example. Have you talked with your dad about your concerns?
Conversations with my dad rarely go beyond sport and machinery. He's a great man, but he'd look at me with 2 heads if I brought this up.

Her personality seems pretty even keeled from what you have said. She seems stable and kind. Finding a beautiful woman who is stable and kind is no small accomplishment. And she works with children and her nieces & nephews adore her? That's correct, day job is working with kids and she's kinda considered the cool aunt by her nieces/nephews.

Also keep your own counsel. I just read a thread the other day where the board was saying to a dude (who has started dating a really shy, old fashioned, sexually conservative woman with very little experience), and the board says essentially “She’s a prude who doesn’t like sex...don’t invest your time more than a couple months...she’s gonna be a starfish...” etc.

Facepalm.

This is the thing about this forum. Guy finds a conservative woman? The board says she’s a prude if she won’t fvck after a few dates. BUT if you find a woman who will fvck after a few dates? Well then she’s a w h o r e and the board says you ought not invest time in her. You cannot win. Lol, I've noticed. I like these forums but they certainly veer towards the negative.

Therefore you must keep your own counsel. If a woman is seeking a relationship in today’s market she knows sex will be on the table sooner rather than later. If she is beautiful she will have lots of men who want her sexually. If she is more plain looking that is less the case.

So you for whatever reason are sort of punishing her for being beautiful and having more opportunities than you can imagine. Maybe she values sex and doesn’t want a subpar sexual experience with her partner. I can’t fault her for that really. Would you stay in a sexless relationship for months only to discover your partner sucks as a lover, leaving you wanting/wondering about others all the time? No? Why fault a woman for this? But that’s sort of what you are doing. I fault her because she used hookups as validation - and for 5 years. I think her self-esteem is a bit low. With her source of validation gone, I worry about her down the line. Can one go from that for 5 years to a serious LTR with the flick of a switch? I have my doubts.

I for example just ended a relationship that was approaching the 3 month mark. Why? He wasn’t willing to be exclusive and the sexual experience wasn’t fulfilling. He’s also narcissistic and abusive as I was finding as I observed his behavior more & more (he would gaslight, project and act hateful and refused accountability for his nasty behavior toward myself and others). So I’m out.

A couple of my buddies witnessed a bout of his unhingedness...they were like, “BE, he’s a fun, cool dude, but that behavior is only going to get worse...that boy is fvcked up and you aren’t going to fix him...”. And they are correct.

But I slept with him. It is what it is. Does that make me loose? No. Does that make me unable to bond? No. Does that damage me? No. I liked him a great deal (still do) but he isn’t the right man for me. In time I expect we will be friends. If we are, fine...if we aren’t, fine. We seek different things (and I’m not tolerating abuse from him or anyone)...

I’ve already been on a great date with someone else. So the vetting process starts over again. That’s simply the deal with dating. I don’t carry baggage around from one situation to the next. It sounds like your gf doesn’t either. That means she’s emotionally open to you. Don’t punish her for that. I agree it sounds like you and her don't carry baggage from one situation to the next, which is rare.

You can go find a different woman of course but that different woman is going to have her issues too. Nobody is perfect. Look at character. How do you feel about her character? How easy is finding another woman with her same level of attractiveness in combination with her character? In general her character is good. I have a lot of time for the people close to her. She made some poor decisions though (seeing guys with gf's). Im a hypocrite here though as I've cheated in LTRs in the past. She's malleable (not a bad thing). During the party years she moved to a major city and hung around with a friend who i would judge as having poor character. I think she takes the character of those around her.

Can you sit her down and point blank address your concerns? Have you discussed her partner count, her dating men with girlfriends, her “party years” with her? Be mature and have that conversation. You need to know whatever you need to know and find out what she has to say about it rather than make assumptions. You’ll learn from what she says and you’ll learn from what she doesn’t say. I have not sat down with here and discussed it. Im unsure of the value of doing that, but I'll consider it.

You are the one in the relationship. You know her. We cannot. Not like you do. Why not have the conversation before you dismiss based on assumptions?

Food for thought.
Thanks @BeExcellent for your perspective, my responses in bold.
 

TonyTenner

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Once the biological clock is ticking this loud, reason and logic goes out through the door. No matter who you are or what you say, the only thing that counts is having a baby in her mind. I've seen women make the same mistake time and time again and i've first hand experience myself. An ex of mine was about the same age as your gf is now and she told me she wanted children within 1 year. Better said, she demanded it.
We broke up, and i'm not kidding you 6 months later she was pregnant which means she found some dude and had a baby with him within 1-2 months.

Being a serial LTR chick first and jump into the carousel later is not unheard of. That's the classical example of the feeling having 'missed out on life', so they want to fulfill all their fantasies. I wouldn't worry too much about 20 partners for a 34 year old woman though, it's normal nowadays, she seems like a good chick otherwise, being self-aware is a great not too common trait. I'd worry more about her upbringing, family situation and relationship to father rahter than partner count and always watch her behavior towards me. How she treats waiters and people she doesn't know is also a super good indicator of her character that i put alot of weight in.

The X amount of years for vetting before children/marriage is mainly to really get a feel for who she is and her devotion to you, since no one can put up a facade for that long. The biggest risk you've to face with women 30+ is they all have sort of an agenda which comes before desire. You weed these chicks out through time and the powerful word "NO". I'd say minimum 1.5 years, but 2+ should be pretty safe regarding that. Always, always listen to your gut though, it's never wrong.

Great things to consider @Lookatu
Yes, it's such a common story. It's as if who the father is doesn't matter. Or more likely, they've left it so late and therefore have to cut the time used for vetting process by 90%. Which is insane given the importance of the decision.

Those points you mention about judging a person's character are spot on. The waiter one is a real important one for me. I've pretty much seen a 100% correlation between women who treat me great yet don't thank waiters, and them turning out to be bytchs. In that sense, I've no worries about my gf.
 

bat soup

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I've been with my gf for approx 10 months. I regularly hear about the timelime of women - parties years pre 27 then at 27 they start looking for the provider. Agree it's very common - though I'd say these days the tipping point is closer to 29/30.

My gf did things the opposite way. From 18 - 27 she was in 2 consecutive relationships with only a few months between them. From what I hear, these were the typical nice guys. Then at 27, she broke up and, it appears, decided to have the party years. I never asked much about her past but through bits here and there I was able to piece together her story. From 27 onwards, she only went for guys who were very good-looking and very tall (she is 5'10, Im 6'2, but one of these guys was a 6'7 rugby player Adonis - those were the types she was going for). She admitted that all she was interested in was their looks and nothing more. These flings would typically lasted a month and then she'd move on. Unprompted, she has gone into details a couple of times and I did not like what I heard. Nothing untoward but I concluded she basically went from being a 27 year old who had only slept with 2 men, to being, quite frankly, a sl*t, overnight. This really does not sit comfortably with me.

She appears to have kept this up until about 32, when she decided she needed to get serious and find someone long-term. A provider in others words. I met her 1 year later. I know what some of you are going to say - you're a beta bucks SIMP etc, but I've never been short of options (played a lot of sport, was good, brought a constant stream of options) and one of my main problems is actually infidelity from my side when in LTRs (I've successfully stopped this in my last 2 LTRs).

I know on these forums it is said the c*ck carousel always damages a woman, sometimes beyond repair. I agree, I've seen it in friends. The curious thing with her is I don't see much signs of damage. She loves attention no doubt, but a few months into our relationship she went from 1 social media post a day to 1 a month - and they usually include me. She's got an excellent family, classy and interesting friends, and she goes to church a few times a week.

Despite what I just said, I have a gut feeling that I don't know the real her. I know her very well, but not entirely. And it's not a feeling I had with ex's.

Recently, the topic of kids and marriage has come up (surprise surprise). I had said that I want kids but need minimum 3 years with someone before having them. I'd also said I didn't want to marry. The kids thing is now a deal-breaker, she wants them next year. The no-marriage is not a deal-breaker for her (though it's likely she thinks she'll be able to change my mind, which she wont).

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl. This girl has been nothing but good with me. She is very calm, kind, is self-aware and examines why she got overly-emotional the odd time that happens. She's naturally feminine and likes to be lead. Indeed, needs to be lead. She's financially independent and actually has more savings than me (though I earn about twice as much more than her). She's also 5'10, gorgeous, blonde, yoga body, Irish, freckles, with the greatest legs I've ever seen.

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl because of that gut feeling, a worry that someone with that high a partner count (I would say it's about 20) is damaged and is just papering over the cracks, and wanting to have kids too soon. It's been hammered home here before picking the mother of your children, you need to qualify them for at least 5 years. That's obviously not an option here.

I have a couple of questions: what are your thoughts on a woman with this unusual timeline, where the party years and settle down years have been switched around?

The second question really comes down to the years it takes to qualify a woman before considering kids (we both strongly want children). I've seen between 2 and 5 years on these forums. What do you guys peg it at?

To me, 3 seems like about right. And that will not work for her. Meaning I will have to end it. Im prepping myself for that.
It sounds to me like she wants to lock you down with kids. Marriage is actually reversible if you do it right, but there's no way back from having children. If it's not what you want and you have doubts about her, then you're better off telling her NO and if she leaves, she leaves. There will never be a shortage of women that want to get married.
 

mrgoodstuff

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It sounds to me like she wants to lock you down with kids. Marriage is actually reversible if you do it right, but there's no way back from having children. If it's not what you want and you have doubts about her, then you're better off telling her NO and if she leaves, she leaves. There will never be a shortage of women that want to get married.
What precautions are you recommending and how does a man "do it right"?
 

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mrgoodstuff

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I mean don't sign your life's work away to a woman just because she looks attractive right now. If you do get married, either choose the jurisdiction very carefully or get a prenup.
I started looking at the states that have a more favorable marriage laws. There are a couple of states where the woman can actually end up paying for "cheating"...
 

bat soup

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BackInTheGame78

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I've been with my gf for approx 10 months. I regularly hear about the timelime of women - parties years pre 27 then at 27 they start looking for the provider. Agree it's very common - though I'd say these days the tipping point is closer to 29/30.

My gf did things the opposite way. From 18 - 27 she was in 2 consecutive relationships with only a few months between them. From what I hear, these were the typical nice guys. Then at 27, she broke up and, it appears, decided to have the party years. I never asked much about her past but through bits here and there I was able to piece together her story. From 27 onwards, she only went for guys who were very good-looking and very tall (she is 5'10, Im 6'2, but one of these guys was a 6'7 rugby player Adonis - those were the types she was going for). She admitted that all she was interested in was their looks and nothing more. These flings would typically lasted a month and then she'd move on. Unprompted, she has gone into details a couple of times and I did not like what I heard. Nothing untoward but I concluded she basically went from being a 27 year old who had only slept with 2 men, to being, quite frankly, a sl*t, overnight. This really does not sit comfortably with me.

She appears to have kept this up until about 32, when she decided she needed to get serious and find someone long-term. A provider in others words. I met her 1 year later. I know what some of you are going to say - you're a beta bucks SIMP etc, but I've never been short of options (played a lot of sport, was good, brought a constant stream of options) and one of my main problems is actually infidelity from my side when in LTRs (I've successfully stopped this in my last 2 LTRs).

I know on these forums it is said the c*ck carousel always damages a woman, sometimes beyond repair. I agree, I've seen it in friends. The curious thing with her is I don't see much signs of damage. She loves attention no doubt, but a few months into our relationship she went from 1 social media post a day to 1 a month - and they usually include me. She's got an excellent family, classy and interesting friends, and she goes to church a few times a week.

Despite what I just said, I have a gut feeling that I don't know the real her. I know her very well, but not entirely. And it's not a feeling I had with ex's.

Recently, the topic of kids and marriage has come up (surprise surprise). I had said that I want kids but need minimum 3 years with someone before having them. I'd also said I didn't want to marry. The kids thing is now a deal-breaker, she wants them next year. The no-marriage is not a deal-breaker for her (though it's likely she thinks she'll be able to change my mind, which she wont).

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl. This girl has been nothing but good with me. She is very calm, kind, is self-aware and examines why she got overly-emotional the odd time that happens. She's naturally feminine and likes to be lead. Indeed, needs to be lead. She's financially independent and actually has more savings than me (though I earn about twice as much more than her). She's also 5'10, gorgeous, blonde, yoga body, Irish, freckles, with the greatest legs I've ever seen.

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl because of that gut feeling, a worry that someone with that high a partner count (I would say it's about 20) is damaged and is just papering over the cracks, and wanting to have kids too soon. It's been hammered home here before picking the mother of your children, you need to qualify them for at least 5 years. That's obviously not an option here.

I have a couple of questions: what are your thoughts on a woman with this unusual timeline, where the party years and settle down years have been switched around?

The second question really comes down to the years it takes to qualify a woman before considering kids (we both strongly want children). I've seen between 2 and 5 years on these forums. What do you guys peg it at?

To me, 3 seems like about right. And that will not work for her. Meaning I will have to end it. Im prepping myself for that.
She has a right to want what she wants and you have a right to want what you want. Neither of you are necessarily wrong.

I have seen other women follow a similar pattern with not being wild until later and then stopping it and it seems like they felt like they didn't get a chance to earlier and they didn't want to miss out on it. Unless she is still doing it, it likely was a phase in her life she is past now.

So your option is to sit down and have a real adult conversation with her and bring up your thoughts or don't and just leave her.

Here is the thing. Any LTR you are in is going to require compromise from both people. And compromise requires communication. I find a lot of people are afraid of communicating because they are afraid of being vulnerable. But without vulnerability there is a limit as to how far the relationship can go.
 

bmxcetera

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So you are telling me, that she went Free Agent Lifestyle at 27. Holy f uck. And now with the wall looming she is tripping balls. Proof that it works out better for us in the end. Pull out your checklist and see how many ticks you can tally in the boxes for her. It sounds like you do have time to spare but need to come to terms on an agreement. Start by telling her she fkd up and throw a bunch of hot dogs in her face as a reminder. Then gently remind her that now more than ever is a great time for intentionally-sadistic people to bring a child into this Twilight Zone world.
 

bcude

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Everyone sort of has an agenda, but when the agenda becomes a condition for the whole relationship, that's very selfish and a red flag.
Especially when dealing with important life decisions, like kids.
It's not your fault that she's in a hurry right now because she didn't think about this earlier in her life and this is an issue you will have with almost all childless women around this age.
Unfortunately, it's not a topic that will go away either.

Any update?
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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Sounds like she wants to get the kids thing out of the way so she can go back to partying before she hits the wall.

If waiting an extra two years for kids is a deal breaker for her, then imo she's being pretty selfish with the relationship, or simply doesn't value it much. If she did she also wouldn't have dared reveal her slvtty tendencies, that would stay in the past, forgotten.
This 100, time to move on
 
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