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Thoughts on gf who did it all backwards

TonyTenner

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I've been with my gf for approx 10 months. I regularly hear about the timelime of women - parties years pre 27 then at 27 they start looking for the provider. Agree it's very common - though I'd say these days the tipping point is closer to 29/30.

My gf did things the opposite way. From 18 - 27 she was in 2 consecutive relationships with only a few months between them. From what I hear, these were the typical nice guys. Then at 27, she broke up and, it appears, decided to have the party years. I never asked much about her past but through bits here and there I was able to piece together her story. From 27 onwards, she only went for guys who were very good-looking and very tall (she is 5'10, Im 6'2, but one of these guys was a 6'7 rugby player Adonis - those were the types she was going for). She admitted that all she was interested in was their looks and nothing more. These flings would typically lasted a month and then she'd move on. Unprompted, she has gone into details a couple of times and I did not like what I heard. Nothing untoward but I concluded she basically went from being a 27 year old who had only slept with 2 men, to being, quite frankly, a sl*t, overnight. This really does not sit comfortably with me.

She appears to have kept this up until about 32, when she decided she needed to get serious and find someone long-term. A provider in others words. I met her 1 year later. I know what some of you are going to say - you're a beta bucks SIMP etc, but I've never been short of options (played a lot of sport, was good, brought a constant stream of options) and one of my main problems is actually infidelity from my side when in LTRs (I've successfully stopped this in my last 2 LTRs).

I know on these forums it is said the c*ck carousel always damages a woman, sometimes beyond repair. I agree, I've seen it in friends. The curious thing with her is I don't see much signs of damage. She loves attention no doubt, but a few months into our relationship she went from 1 social media post a day to 1 a month - and they usually include me. She's got an excellent family, classy and interesting friends, and she goes to church a few times a week.

Despite what I just said, I have a gut feeling that I don't know the real her. I know her very well, but not entirely. And it's not a feeling I had with ex's.

Recently, the topic of kids and marriage has come up (surprise surprise). I had said that I want kids but need minimum 3 years with someone before having them. I'd also said I didn't want to marry. The kids thing is now a deal-breaker, she wants them next year. The no-marriage is not a deal-breaker for her (though it's likely she thinks she'll be able to change my mind, which she wont).

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl. This girl has been nothing but good with me. She is very calm, kind, is self-aware and examines why she got overly-emotional the odd time that happens. She's naturally feminine and likes to be lead. Indeed, needs to be lead. She's financially independent and actually has more savings than me (though I earn about twice as much more than her). She's also 5'10, gorgeous, blonde, yoga body, Irish, freckles, with the greatest legs I've ever seen.

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl because of that gut feeling, a worry that someone with that high a partner count (I would say it's about 20) is damaged and is just papering over the cracks, and wanting to have kids too soon. It's been hammered home here before picking the mother of your children, you need to qualify them for at least 5 years. That's obviously not an option here.

I have a couple of questions: what are your thoughts on a woman with this unusual timeline, where the party years and settle down years have been switched around?

The second question really comes down to the years it takes to qualify a woman before considering kids (we both strongly want children). I've seen between 2 and 5 years on these forums. What do you guys peg it at?

To me, 3 seems like about right. And that will not work for her. Meaning I will have to end it. Im prepping myself for that.
 

LARaiders85

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Not many women below 20 partner count anymore. Gut feeling that she is hiding something is a problem. The kids demand will probably end things regardless.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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Sounds like she wants to get the kids thing out of the way so she can go back to partying before she hits the wall.

If waiting an extra two years for kids is a deal breaker for her, then imo she's being pretty selfish with the relationship, or simply doesn't value it much. If she did she also wouldn't have dared reveal her slvtty tendencies, that would stay in the past, forgotten.

Imagine what happens if you stand your ground(which you still should). To fulfill her goal she breaks up with you then quickly finds someone that will give her kids in less than a year. Or worse, she doesn't break up with you and secretly goes off the pill and tells you to start creaming her all the time.

I think this speaks to how much she would value kids once she had them.

Your gut is right and you shouldn't compensate in the relationship to try and make that gut feeling go away.

To answer your question I would be along the same lines, at least 3 years before kids. The more actions I saw that shows she would be negligent, the more I would push that back(or just cut it off).

No one's perfect and deciding to have children or an LTR means deciding what flaws you're willing to tolerate. Kids are an 18 year commitment that could bear absolutely no fruit. I think it's important to ask yourself why you want kids. Does the reason stem from insecurity?
 
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TonyTenner

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Sounds like she wants to get the kids thing out of the way so she can go back to partying before she hits the wall.

If waiting an extra two years for kids is a deal breaker for her, then imo she's being pretty selfish with the relationship, or simply doesn't value it much. If she did she also wouldn't have dared reveal her slvtty tendencies, that would stay in the past, forgotten.

Imagine what happens if you stand your ground(which you still should). To fulfill her goal she breaks up with you then quickly finds someone that will give her kids in less than a year. Or worse, she doesn't break up with you and secretly goes off the pill and tells you to start creaming her all the time.

Your gut is right and you shouldn't compensate in the relationship to try and make that gut feeling go away.
The extra 2 years issue is a deal breaker purely based on biology - she's just turned 34. The revelations of slvtty tendencies im sure is a mistake she'll not make again - she saw my reaction. Thanks, good advice, Im 98% decided.

Re. my gf with kids - she is great with kids, and works with them in her day job. But ya, I see your point - if she really wanted to give her future kids the best possible life, why did she ride the CC for so long, and then suddenly decide to have kids with someone she knows less than a year?

Regarding my own reason for having kids: a big one is legacy (I have land handed down through the generations, I want to hand it on to my son). Also I feel at a deeper level I want to leave something behind after I'm gone, a piece of me. It's not a have-at-all-cost need for me, but I'd very much like to.
 
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TonyTenner

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Not many women below 20 partner count anymore. Gut feeling that she is hiding something is a problem. The kids demand will probably end things regardless.
I can just about get over everything - the fact she has great friends and family gives me confidence she is who she says she is, I tend to agree with the saying that we are an approximation of the 5 closest people to us - but ya kids within 1 year is a non-runner so I have no choice.
 

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samspade

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The kids thing is huge. She wants them next year? That's putting the cart way before the horse, and I think is enough for you to question whether you're right for each other. It sounds hurried.

As for her party years...I keep saying this. Women will do what they are going to do. Some do get locked into relationships during their peak adult sexual years. Consider that she may have also fooled around on her boyfriends too...this is not uncommon for young women who have the world in their hands sexually. But in any case she went out and rode the carousel. To be expected. She also told you details unprompted which is kind of strange. Regardless...this is all about what you are okay with, your inner self. Mileage varies. But you should also take honest stock and ask yourself if you're applying general Sosuave rules onto her, or if you have considered what you personally are comfortable with. There is no wrong answer here. The gut feeling is a powerful compass; listen to it.

You can probably do better if you're a good earner, have had a lot of sexual success and an athlete's build. Bro, you're 37? I'm 44 and the girl I'm seeing is six years younger than your chick. I'm sure you can kill it out there. Pressure for kids is just unnecessary aggravation, IMO.
 

Bigpapa

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I've been with my gf for approx 10 months. I regularly hear about the timelime of women - parties years pre 27 then at 27 they start looking for the provider. Agree it's very common - though I'd say these days the tipping point is closer to 29/30.

My gf did things the opposite way. From 18 - 27 she was in 2 consecutive relationships with only a few months between them. From what I hear, these were the typical nice guys. Then at 27, she broke up and, it appears, decided to have the party years. I never asked much about her past but through bits here and there I was able to piece together her story. From 27 onwards, she only went for guys who were very good-looking and very tall (she is 5'10, Im 6'2, but one of these guys was a 6'7 rugby player Adonis - those were the types she was going for). She admitted that all she was interested in was their looks and nothing more. These flings would typically lasted a month and then she'd move on. Unprompted, she has gone into details a couple of times and I did not like what I heard. Nothing untoward but I concluded she basically went from being a 27 year old who had only slept with 2 men, to being, quite frankly, a sl*t, overnight. This really does not sit comfortably with me.

She appears to have kept this up until about 32, when she decided she needed to get serious and find someone long-term. A provider in others words. I met her 1 year later. I know what some of you are going to say - you're a beta bucks SIMP etc, but I've never been short of options (played a lot of sport, was good, brought a constant stream of options) and one of my main problems is actually infidelity from my side when in LTRs (I've successfully stopped this in my last 2 LTRs).

I know on these forums it is said the c*ck carousel always damages a woman, sometimes beyond repair. I agree, I've seen it in friends. The curious thing with her is I don't see much signs of damage. She loves attention no doubt, but a few months into our relationship she went from 1 social media post a day to 1 a month - and they usually include me. She's got an excellent family, classy and interesting friends, and she goes to church a few times a week.

Despite what I just said, I have a gut feeling that I don't know the real her. I know her very well, but not entirely. And it's not a feeling I had with ex's.

Recently, the topic of kids and marriage has come up (surprise surprise). I had said that I want kids but need minimum 3 years with someone before having them. I'd also said I didn't want to marry. The kids thing is now a deal-breaker, she wants them next year. The no-marriage is not a deal-breaker for her (though it's likely she thinks she'll be able to change my mind, which she wont).

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl. This girl has been nothing but good with me. She is very calm, kind, is self-aware and examines why she got overly-emotional the odd time that happens. She's naturally feminine and likes to be lead. Indeed, needs to be lead. She's financially independent and actually has more savings than me (though I earn about twice as much more than her). She's also 5'10, gorgeous, blonde, yoga body, Irish, freckles, with the greatest legs I've ever seen.

I'm leaning heavily towards breaking up with this girl because of that gut feeling, a worry that someone with that high a partner count (I would say it's about 20) is damaged and is just papering over the cracks, and wanting to have kids too soon. It's been hammered home here before picking the mother of your children, you need to qualify them for at least 5 years. That's obviously not an option here.

I have a couple of questions: what are your thoughts on a woman with this unusual timeline, where the party years and settle down years have been switched around?

The second question really comes down to the years it takes to qualify a woman before considering kids (we both strongly want children). I've seen between 2 and 5 years on these forums. What do you guys peg it at?

To me, 3 seems like about right. And that will not work for her. Meaning I will have to end it. Im prepping myself for that.
by the sounds of me you are the best guy who committed to her and she wants to secure your resources before her looks fade for good :)

I think that the 2 nice guys that she dated before spoiled her , and made her feel like she is this amazing woman bla bla , and after a couple of years she realized that this is not the case and tried to settle down

pushing for kids with someone that you know for less than 1 years is a big red flag :)
 

stringpuller

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The second question really comes down to the years it takes to qualify a woman before considering kids (we both strongly want children). I've seen between 2 and 5 years on these forums. What do you guys peg it at?
Time-line. There are always out liers to the norm.
Being pressured for kids is not good IMO.
What i struggle with is having a 26 yr old and a 15 year old with everything thats going on the US right now why anyone would want kids right now. But thats just me and you may not be in the US.

Gut is usually right. As a side note breaking up with her may give the frame back to you because a demand and force is a frame grab whether you want to believe it or not. I think its sub vicious behavior on her part.

A sub girl (to you) will patiently wait for you and the oppertunity to have you breed her.
She sounds like she just wants bred...regardless.
20+ partners is up there in my book for a mentally healthy girl.

I work with this kid being forced to marry this libtard chic who he degrates her mom and sisters often.(genetics)
Then throws the hail mary shes more like her dad. What a fcking moron.

The male brain around ***** i bet secretes a chemical that makes men rationalize and lie to themselves easiily. Lol
Its dumb founding some of the shyt i see IRL after being RPed.

Kids will not complete your life. Are they fun. Mostly but you still have to be you. And live
 

TonyTenner

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The kids thing is huge. She wants them next year? That's putting the cart way before the horse, and I think is enough for you to question whether you're right for each other. It sounds hurried.

As for her party years...I keep saying this. Women will do what they are going to do. Some do get locked into relationships during their peak adult sexual years. Consider that she may have also fooled around on her boyfriends too...this is not uncommon for young women who have the world in their hands sexually. But in any case she went out and rode the carousel. To be expected. She also told you details unprompted which is kind of strange. Regardless...this is all about what you are okay with, your inner self. Mileage varies. But you should also take honest stock and ask yourself if you're applying general Sosuave rules onto her, or if you have considered what you personally are comfortable with. There is no wrong answer here. The gut feeling is a powerful compass; listen to it.

You can probably do better if you're a good earner, have had a lot of sexual success and an athlete's build. Bro, you're 37? I'm 44 and the girl I'm seeing is six years younger than your chick. I'm sure you can kill it out there. Pressure for kids is just unnecessary aggravation, IMO.
Thanks, excellent advice. It's a bit of both - general sosuave rules are flagging with me but it's also me, personally - I could easily let this go on and see how things go - in general, she's great - but the gut feeling is saying act now, which I think I will.

Re. age, I know, I usually go for approx 8 years younger than me. But for this one I let that slide cos she's hot as f*ck. I shall revert to my -8 year rule.
 

TonyTenner

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Time-line. There are always out liers to the norm.
Being pressured for kids is not good IMO.
What i struggle with is having a 26 yr old and a 15 year old with everything thats going on the US right now why anyone would want kids right now. But thats just me and you may not be in the US.

Gut is usually right. As a side note breaking up with her may give the frame back to you because a demand and force is a frame grab whether you want to believe it or not. I think its sub vicious behavior on her part.

A sub girl (to you) will patiently wait for you and the oppertunity to have you breed her.
She sounds like she just wants bred...regardless.
20+ partners is up there in my book for a mentally healthy girl.

I work with this kid being forced to marry this libtard chic who he degrates her mom and sisters often.(genetics)
Then throws the hail mary shes more like her dad. What a fcking moron.

The male brain around ***** i bet secretes a chemical that makes men rationalize and lie to themselves easiily. Lol
Its dumb founding some of the shyt i see IRL after being RPed.

Kids will not complete your life. Are they fun. Mostly but you still have to be you. And live
Ya Im not in the US, 17% divorce rate and divorce stigma here. Although that's changing, for the worse. Thanks, solid advice.
 

Bigpapa

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Ya Im not in the US, 17% divorce rate and divorce stigma here. Although that's changing, for the worse. Thanks, solid advice.
you will be fine mate , you will see , just be fair with yourself about her :)

also think about that it is very likely that things will go bad down the line , and what emotional and financial token this will have on you .

if you think in this terms you will notice that the rewards are way smaller than the risks , and the risks can f*uck you so bad that you might never really recover

There are a lot of stories about cool guys loosing a lot of financial independence because of some girl that they did not vet properly from the get go .

Being financial independent is must if you want to keep your attractiveness high as you get old
 

TonyTenner

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you will be fine mate , you will see , just be fair with yourself about her :)

also think about that it is very likely that things will go bad down the line , and what emotional and financial token this will have on you .

if you think in this terms you will notice that the rewards are way smaller than the risks , and the risks can f*uck you so bad that you might never really recover

There are a lot of stories about cool guys loosing a lot of financial independence because of some girl that they did not vet properly from the get go .

Being financial independent is must if you want to keep your attractiveness high as you get old
Risk/reward a nice way of looking at it.

Yeah I'll be fine, it's her I'm worried about. She's going to be absolutely crushed. But she has very solid friends and family nearby so at least she has good support.
 

Bigpapa

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Risk/reward a nice way of looking at it.

Yeah I'll be fine, it's her I'm worried about. She's going to be absolutely crushed. But she has very solid friends and family nearby so at least she has good support.
you should not care about her more than sex :)

It is a sucker I know , been there , but as a guy you have to super selective to whom you actually let in your life . One bad move and it will take a lot of time to recover , if you will ever properly recover :)
 

Lookatu

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The three ultimate deal breakers if you have opposing views are:
1. Marriage
2. Kids
3. Religion

Better to establish those early on in the relationship rather than wasting your time.

OP, it sounds to me that you definitely want kids but want to make sure you have it with the right girl. I think I posted a long post on some things to look out for mother material in another thread. Let me ask you these questions:

- Have you guys ever been in fights, bad situations together, taken international trips, faced any adversity? Those are all great test to see how she deals with life

- Is she selfless, nurturing, accomodating, flexible, adaptable, a survivor, optimist, etc? Those are all good motherly traits to have.

- Is there anything you can find wrong that rubs you the wrong way that would affect how she treats/raises kids?

- Has she ever had a dog on her own? It's a type of training before having kids.

- What's her reason to have kids right this minute if she's only 32yo? She should have a few more years easily of good fertility and good chances of a healthy baby.

- Will she compromise or is the kid directive her top priority? So many gals get so caught up in just having kids, they overlook everything else and it never ends well most of the time.

- Does she have any nephews/nieces and how does she treat them or have you seen her interact with any of them?

These are somethings to consider.
 

TonyTenner

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The three ultimate deal breakers if you have opposing views are:
1. Marriage
2. Kids
3. Religion

Better to establish those early on in the relationship rather than wasting your time.

OP, it sounds to me that you definitely want kids but want to make sure you have it with the right girl. Spot on. I think I posted a long post on some things to look out for mother material in another thread. Let me ask you these questions:

- Have you guys ever been in fights, bad situations together, taken international trips, faced any adversity? Those are all great test to see how she deals with life
In 10 months, we had one fight, when she acted irrationally. I cut her short and told her she's unrecognisable to me and she looked disappointed. Thats the type she is - calm, self-aware.

- Is she selfless, nurturing, accomodating, flexible, adaptable, a survivor, optimist, etc? Those are all good motherly traits to have.
She is, she works with kids, she's a natural with them.

- Is there anything you can find wrong that rubs you the wrong way that would affect how she treats/raises kids?
Yes - she loves attention, she loves being looked at. When we're at a party, she has to be centre of attention. I think at her age she should have adapted by now. I question her morals. For example, during the party years, she was twice involved with guys she knew had gf's. I would question whether she would be fully trustworthy, down the line. Whilst she has never cheated, she's been single for the last 7 years. I doubt someone can go from being single and casually dating many men for the last 7 to committing to 1 all of a sudden. She bores easily, requires a lot of stimulation. She's had enormous attention her whole life (5'10, blonde, beautiful) and I question how well she will deal with that attention waning as she ages. She's frivolous. Whilst she has a job and a lot of savings, she can be quite lazy. I can imagine her quitting the job for good after kids.

- Has she ever had a dog on her own? It's a type of training before having kids.
She has not.

- What's her reason to have kids right this minute if she's only 32yo? She should have a few more years easily of good fertility and good chances of a healthy baby.
Actually she is 34 so I think she's in panic mode

- Will she compromise or is the kid directive her top priority? So many gals get so caught up in just having kids, they overlook everything else and it never ends well most of the time.
She may compromise and put it off 2.5 more years. I do feel 1/ by making her do this I'm compromising her chances of a healthy pregnancy 2/ we may end up breaking up after 2 years and then she's up ****s creek

- Does she have any nephews/nieces and how does she treat them or have you seen her interact with any of them?
She has loads and they all love her.

These are somethings to consider.
 
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Lookatu

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- Is there anything you can find wrong that rubs you the wrong way that would affect how she treats/raises kids?
Yes - she loves attention, she loves being looked at. When we're at a party, she has to be centre of attention. I think at her age she should have adapted by now. I question her morals. For example, during the party years, she was twice involved with guys she knew had gf's. I would question whether she would be fully trustworthy, down the line. Whilst she has never cheated, she's been single for the last 7 years. I doubt someone can go from being single and casually dating many men for the last 7 to committing to 1 all of a sudden. She bores easily, requires a lot of stimulation. She's had enormous attention her whole life (5'10, blonde, beautiful) and I question how well she will deal with that attention waning as she ages. She's frivolous. Whilst she has a job and a lot of savings, she can be quite lazy. I can imagine her quitting the job for good after kids.
It sounds like this might be the sticking point.

My take is she might be ok being a single mother but I don't think she'll be able to stick it out long term with the father of her kids. If you want to be together with her as a family for a long time, this may not work out. That's just my opinion though based on the info given.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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The extra 2 years issue is a deal breaker purely based on biology - she's just turned 34. The revelations of slvtty tendencies im sure is a mistake she'll not make again - she saw my reaction. Thanks, good advice, Im 98% decided.

Re. my gf with kids - she is great with kids, and works with them in her day job. But ya, I see your point - if she really wanted to give her future kids the best possible life, why did she ride the CC for so long, and then suddenly decide to have kids with someone she knows less than a year?

Regarding my own reason for having kids: a big one is legacy (I have land handed down through the generations, I want to hand it on to my son). Also I feel at a deeper level I want to leave something behind after I'm gone, a piece of me. It's not a have-at-all-cost need for me, but I'd very much like to.
There is always adoption. We're overpopulated as it is and you can pick a cute kid with no health issues. Genetics play a fairly small role in how someone actually turns out.

That whole leaving something behind doesn't have to be a human being. My point is you've got plenty of options. Anyway sounds like your heads in the right space.
 

bcude

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Once the biological clock is ticking this loud, reason and logic goes out through the door. No matter who you are or what you say, the only thing that counts is having a baby in her mind. I've seen women make the same mistake time and time again and i've first hand experience myself. An ex of mine was about the same age as your gf is now and she told me she wanted children within 1 year. Better said, she demanded it.
We broke up, and i'm not kidding you 6 months later she was pregnant which means she found some dude and had a baby with him within 1-2 months.

Being a serial LTR chick first and jump into the carousel later is not unheard of. That's the classical example of the feeling having 'missed out on life', so they want to fulfill all their fantasies. I wouldn't worry too much about 20 partners for a 34 year old woman though, it's normal nowadays, she seems like a good chick otherwise, being self-aware is a great not too common trait. I'd worry more about her upbringing, family situation and relationship to father rahter than partner count and always watch her behavior towards me. How she treats waiters and people she doesn't know is also a super good indicator of her character that i put alot of weight in.

The X amount of years for vetting before children/marriage is mainly to really get a feel for who she is and her devotion to you, since no one can put up a facade for that long. The biggest risk you've to face with women 30+ is they all have sort of an agenda which comes before desire. You weed these chicks out through time and the powerful word "NO". I'd say minimum 1.5 years, but 2+ should be pretty safe regarding that. Always, always listen to your gut though, it's never wrong.

Great things to consider @Lookatu
 
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jimwho

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Gut is usually right. As a side note breaking up with her may give the frame back to you because a demand and force is a frame grab whether you want to believe it or not. I think its sub vicious behavior on her part.
That's what I'd do. Cool her Jets.. tell her we basically just met, and you want her all to yourself for a couple years before changing diapers and cleaning up fruitloops every day.
 
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